PDA

View Full Version : Question about Notepad Manual Targeting



SpectreFC
09-11-2005, 02:12 PM
I know if I set the AOB early (as soon as I can calculate it) and send it to the TDC, it does not need to be updated. I use the Notepad for data collection (the range/speed)to approach the target. When I get closer to the target, if I want to re-enter the range-speed (b/c its more accurate at closer range), but I dont want to change my AOB, how do I do this? If I dont have a new AOB in the notepad, I cannot calculate speed, and even if I put a temporary one in (from the TDC), when I sent the set of data to the TDC, the AOB would be updated too, and I would like to keep the old one.

Dont know if this makes sense or not. In the community manual, it says once you have AOB entered, its a good idea to clear it from the notepad. But then I cannot enter speed when I get closer to the target!

Does this make sense??

W.Irving
09-11-2005, 02:35 PM
Unless the target is immobilised, you would have to update AOB as you get closer to the target!

SpectreFC
09-11-2005, 04:56 PM
Oh I see.

So when you put an AOB # into the TDC, it doesent need to be recalculated if you, or the target, are stationary?

But if I am approaching a target that is moving, I need to basically input evrything (range/AOB, assuming speed hasnt changed) at the last moment?

lecek
09-11-2005, 05:15 PM
You don't need to update your AoB as long as neither you nor your target change course. (Your TDC has to be set to auto, which it is if you are using the notepad to update its settings.)

You do need to update the AoB if you are taking a speed reading.

I recomend you set up all three and then if you are happy with all your readings you should update your TDC by clicking the checkmark, and then clear your notepad with the X button.

Then just update distance just before you shoot.

SpectreFC
09-11-2005, 05:27 PM
Ok, so let me just confirm, cuz this is getting a little confusing..

Im approaching a ship, and niether me, or the ship are changing courses. Im a fair bit away still (ei, not ready to fire). I take the Range, AOB, and speed measurements on the notepad, and enter them. I keep going alone my course, and when im close enough to fire, I update my range, send it to the tdc, and fire?

W.Irving
09-11-2005, 05:28 PM
I don't know what the case is with the TDC, but the notepad needs constant updating.

lecek, Are you saying that it's possible to just enter AoB, range and speed at one point into the TDC at one point, and the thing will keep itself updated? How!?

If you are both on a parallel course, and doing the same speed, AoB will not change. And that's basically the only situation in which AoB will remain constant.

No, Spectre, you would have to update AoB, unless the TDC knows how much time has passed since the data was input and therefore can continuously calculate the route of the target.

lecek
09-11-2005, 06:45 PM
The AoB can update itself. As long as your oringinal entry was correct and neither you nor your taget alter course it will be correct.


If you are both on a parallel course, and doing the same speed, AoB will not change. And that's basically the only situation in which AoB will remain constant.

I never said it would be constant. Your TDC adjusts automatically. Try it, set your scope (when no ship is around) to bearing 45 degrees. Set your notepad AoB to 45 port. Move your scope so that it points dead ahead. Go to your TDC and check what it says AoB is. Not 45 anymore now it should say 90.

(If you can't set notepad AoB without a ship, then you can do it manually from the TDC, just make sure you set the TDC to auto when done or it won't work.)

However, if you update your TDC a second time by clicking on your checkmark, your change the AoB to what is on the notepad.

The notepads AoB needs to be set to find speed.

So what you do is find all data with the notepad. Update the TDC. Wipe the notepad clear by hitting the X (if you are happy with the values.) and then all you have to do is update range before you shoot.

If you have only range set on your TDC, clicking the checkmark doesn't change other values.


Im approaching a ship, and niether me, or the ship are changing courses. Im a fair bit away still (ei, not ready to fire). I take the Range, AOB, and speed measurements on the notepad, and enter them. I keep going alone my course, and when im close enough to fire, I update my range, send it to the tdc, and fire?

Exactly. Furthermore, you can even pass infront of the target and hit him with your aft tubes. The AoB will still be correct. It is only important that neither you nor your target change course.

I should point out that this is usefull in a convoy. Once you set speed and AoB for one ship in a convoy it is acurate for all ships. (As long as they aren't zig zagging.) Even the ships behind you.

And if you wait for a gyroangle of 0, you don't need range at all. Range only makes a difference for torpedos that aren't traveling straight out.

Of course a target that is twice as far out is twice as hard to hit regardless.

One more thing I forgot. You can ignore this bit if you find it confusing, you can set AoB long before you are set up for your target.

I said that you can't change course, technically this is not true. You can set the AoB for what it will be when you are ready to fire regardless of what course you are on. I often set AoB long before I even visually sight the target. Sometimes I don't even change it from my last target I sank days before. But you need to understand the AoB before you can do this.

SpectreFC
09-11-2005, 10:33 PM
Thanks for the help!

I understood that the AOB automatically adjusted itself with the peri/uzi bearing.. but I didnt understand the extent of how it worked.

I just got my first %100 kill. I figured out the course of the ship I was hunting long before I spotted it. I pointed the periscope at a perpendicular angle to it, and set the AOB at 90. I did not need to change it. I did however double check that it was correct before I fired. Just updated the range at the last moment, and let er rip!

BaBaBoom!

Now about course changes.. It makes perfect sense to me that the target ship cannot change course (will mess up the AOB). You said that technically, you can change the course, but you need to pre-emptively set the AOB. Let me try and understand..

Does this mean that in the situation i described previously, I could change my course and the AOB would still not need updated?

I dont understand how the AOB would be affected by *my* ships course. If I was at 90 degrees AOB from a ship, and my ship was spinning around in circles.. wouldant I still be at 90 degrees AOB?

OR

Did you mean that for the AOB to 'track' properly, you must stay on your course, or at least get back on that course before you fire?
EG. If Im setting up for a 90 degree shot, and I find myself behind the target.. I could pull back, flank up ahead of the target, and as long as I was pointed back at the same bearing as I origionally set up for, the AOB would still work?

Thanks again!

SpectreFC
09-11-2005, 10:38 PM
Oh Irving.. About the AOB thing.

The way I think about it is like this:

If you tell the tdc that there is a ship at 0 degrees at AOB of 90, then nomatter the range of that target (really, does not matter), the TDC can easily calculate the AOB. Imagine the ship is sailing forward, and you pass behind it. Your periscope will be pointed at 90 degrees. Nomatter how far away that target is, you will always be staring at the back of the ship (180 AOB) if they have not changed course.
If you point the periscope at 270 degrees, the TDC knows that you must be looking at the bow of that ship.

As long as you *enter* the AOB from the notepad into the TDC, the tdc will automatically update it. Thats what makes killing convoys easy with this system. Once you get the AOB for the convoy, all the ships go the same direction, regardless of range.

So all you have to do is point, find the range, and fire.

lecek
09-12-2005, 01:34 PM
Did you mean that for the AOB to 'track' properly, you must stay on your course, or at least get back on that course before you fire?
EG. If Im setting up for a 90 degree shot, and I find myself behind the target.. I could pull back, flank up ahead of the target, and as long as I was pointed back at the same bearing as I origionally set up for, the AOB would still work?


Exactly.

Most of the time you want to be at 90 degrees off his course. So if you know what side of him you are going to be shooting at, you can point your scope dead ahead with the '-' key, and manually set AoB on the TDC to 90 on the correct side.

Now your AoB is set for every ship you ever encounter as long as you are 90 off the correct side. This is what I do.

Unfotunatly if you do this, you can't use the notepad to get speed because you need the AoB on the notepad to do that. That is why many players at 100% ditch the notepad alltogether.

I only use it to get distance at the last minute sometimes, that way I have a red mark on my timer for when the torpedo should hit. Sometimes I don't even bother with that.

ILikePortillos
09-12-2005, 02:38 PM
To confirm Lacek's point, enter all of the elements in, then hit the check box twice. Now, when you go to the weapons map, you'll see the suggested trajectory line moving as the ship moves accross your map. They suggest you update your readings if a significant amount of time passes between your input and firing.

vanjast
09-12-2005, 03:31 PM
May I be bold enough to suggest this.. Forget the notepad, it's cumbersome.
If you flip between your scope/uzo and TDC screens and adjust the AOB manually, it becomes so much easier and faster. With a bit of practice you'll have it down to an 'art-form'
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Maj_Solo
09-12-2005, 03:47 PM
AOB is automatically updated with the assumption the target AND you both are continuing on the same course. Go down to the central (press F6) and turn the "real" manual targetting system (don't have a better name for it) by pushing the black button with red light in it so it is lit up green and play around with the dials. Set the AOB and then turn the target direction slowly around 360 degrees and study what the system is doing with the AOB.

AOB automatic update is not done by a HAL9000 system. What I think it is used for is you point at the target, you measure range, you set the AOB, and while you are on your way over to measure speed the target AOB is atomatically updated a little bit assuming the boat is continuing and not flying off to the moon or something which it would not have time to do when you are moving over to measure speed, so the assumtion is acceptable over a short time span.

It will not be able to figure AOB if you turn or the target turns, it is not designed for that, only to help out a little before you measure speed.

SpectreFC
09-12-2005, 04:39 PM
The AOB is connected with the bearing of the periscope/uzi, right?

So if I used the 'real' manual targeting, would I need to lock the periscope to the target? What I normally did was pointed it at the target, then *unlocked* it, so it wouldant move when I input the AOB.

the_rydster
09-12-2005, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by SpectreFC:
The AOB is connected with the bearing of the periscope/uzi, right?

So if I used the 'real' manual targeting, would I need to lock the periscope to the target? What I normally did was pointed it at the target, then *unlocked* it, so it wouldant move when I input the AOB.

Yeah the TDC uses the periscope/UZO bearing to adjust AOB once you have set AOB for a given bearing. This assumed no changes of course.

The purest way would yeah be to 'unlock' it and then set the AOB but you will not loose too much accuracy of you do not.

How are you working out your AOB? Are you just 'eyeballing' it? I tend to plot on the map and work out target heading, then use the cool wheel thingy to work out AOB in advance for my shot. I will 'eyeball' it if it is a snap shot but the key is to collect good data. As mentioned when attacking a convoy that AOB once worked out precisely is good for all targets, just gotta change range.

Ditch the notepad for working out speed. Use rpms and manual plots (3 mins rule). Speed using the notepad is inaccurate and too sensitive to estimated AOB.

The only thing I use the notepad for is to work out range for plots and just before I fire to get a final range. Clicking the 'tick' when only range is on the notepad will only send the range to the TDC, the AOB and speed I have already set up, and the bearing goes automatically if 'locked'.

Also gotta be flexible especially if underpressure.

vanjast
09-12-2005, 05:27 PM
Originally posted by SpectreFC:
The AOB is connected with the bearing of the periscope/uzi, right?

So if I used the 'real' manual targeting, would I need to lock the periscope to the target? What I normally did was pointed it at the target, then *unlocked* it, so it wouldant move when I input the AOB.

Aye Aye Kapitan.. and just b4 you fire one final adjustment to AOB and your torps are home and dry ?? wet that is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Err:- you've set the target speed accurately of course

SpectreFC
09-12-2005, 07:01 PM
The only time I set the AOB visually is if I am under pressure for a shot, and I *think* I can set it reletively well.. Or if its close to 90.

The rest of the time I try to figure out the course well ahead of time and enter the AOB in advance.

Im starting to see the limitations of the notepad.

lecek
09-12-2005, 07:48 PM
You do NOT need to be locked to a target to set AoB. The TDC calculates changes in AoB by changes in scope bearing. It doesn't matter if anything is actually in the scope. You can set TDC for a non existant ship and it will adjust as you move your scope.

You might need to be locked onto a ship to set AoB with your notepad, but not in any other case.

Keep in mind your AoB will not auto adjust if you don't have your TDC set to auto. (Your TDC is set to auto if you can use your notepad to update it.)