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Blue_Baron
05-02-2008, 05:49 PM
Has anyone gone back and flown the Zero's in the older Combat Flight Simulator 2 game?

My point here is that the one and only Subaru Sakai had significant input into the modeling of the Zero's for this CFS2 game prior to his death. This was documented.

The Zero's in IL2 do not fly like the ones modeled by Sakai. They are close, but not correct.

I am very concerned that the 20mm trajectory in Il2 drops off a few degrees more than they should.

The turning radious of the Zero in IL2 is tight, yet does not appear to be right.

I defer to the Zero besting Soviet equipment in 1941.

I dunno. Am a huge fan of Japanese aviation and IL2.


For others - am I off or am I on to something?

Finally - the A6M3 with clipped wings carred 100 rounds of 20mm per gun, not 60, and they were cartridge fed. It feels like 60 in the game.

M_Gunz
05-02-2008, 06:28 PM
Looking forward to your proofs.

Wildnoob
05-03-2008, 04:24 PM
by the way, CFS-2 is fun to play ?

I buy CFS-3 and don't apreciate it.

I think the only good features for me where early war Japanese stike aircraft, wich we don't have in IL2, such as the G3M and the B5N (this unfortnetly not flyabe).

DKoor
05-04-2008, 07:47 AM
Some of the accounts said that Zero was even faster than Wildcat... totally superior plane, except in a dive.

In the game Wildcat is faster from 0 - 2000m tho.

Bearcat99
05-04-2008, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by Blue_Baron:
Has anyone gone back and flown the Zero's in the older Combat Flight Simulator 2 game?

My point here is that the one and only Subaru Sakai had significant input into the modeling of the Zero's for this CFS2 game prior to his death. This was documented.

The Zero's in IL2 do not fly like the ones modeled by Sakai. They are close, but not correct.

I am very concerned that the 20mm trajectory in Il2 drops off a few degrees more than they should.

The turning radious of the Zero in IL2 is tight, yet does not appear to be right.

I defer to the Zero besting Soviet equipment in 1941.

I dunno. Am a huge fan of Japanese aviation and IL2.


For others - am I off or am I on to something?

Finally - the A6M3 with clipped wings carred 100 rounds of 20mm per gun, not 60, and they were cartridge fed. It feels like 60 in the game.

I would say that you are off in that there is no comparison on any level aside from the fact that both have aircraft in them between CFS2 and this sim. Even if Sakai did have input into the modelling.

joeap
05-04-2008, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Blue_Baron:

The Zero's in IL2 do not fly like the ones modeled by Sakai.

Well, as Bearcat said, Sakai did NOT model the CFS-2 Zeros, he just had some input into them. The CFS engine was older than Il-2s though (though it was a good game actually).

Wildnoob
05-04-2008, 01:25 PM
anybody know the truth cause wich Oleg don't make the B5N as a flyable aircraft ?

I know there's not a single complete one the world, but how Microsoft manage and Oleg not ?

also, the bombardier/observer and the rear gunner/radio operator positions where modeled on the CFS-2 B5N ?

I see some images from aircraft cockpits and saw one thing we don't have in the IL2 G4M - a torpedo gunsigth.

IJN air doutrine was use the torpedo bomber as primary weapon against naval targets. I can't belive that one of the most important Japanese aircraft of WWII is not flyable. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

M_Gunz
05-04-2008, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
anybody know the truth cause wich Oleg don't make the B5N as a flyable aircraft ?

I know there's not a single complete one the world, but how Microsoft manage and Oleg not ?

M$ has lower model standards and more workers/budget.

Compare the flight between the two sims, I don't read from RL competition aerobatics pilots
about how good CFS-any gets that yet I do from those same about IL2 especially since 4.07.

I can't get a Big Mac and Chicken Nuggets at any of the local gourmet restaurants either.

Blue_Baron
05-06-2008, 08:27 PM
I agree there should be other flyable Japanese bomber and assault aircraft.

Oleg - please do not give up on IL2.

Sakai DID model the Zero's in CSF2 - a huge miss in IL2 I imagine.

joeap
05-07-2008, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by Blue_Baron:
I agree there should be other flyable Japanese bomber and assault aircraft.

Oleg - please do not give up on IL2.

Sakai DID model the Zero's in CSF2 - a huge miss in IL2 I imagine.

Bull. He provided input, you don't really think a 70+ year old sat down in front of a computer and programmed the model??? He surely made comments on how the plane flew and handled which were interpreted by an MS programmer.

Here it is:

Wiki on Sakai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saburo_Sakai)


In 2000 Sakai briefly served as a consultant to the popular computer game Combat Flight Simulator 2 by Microsoft.


Note briefly and note he died in 2000 as well.

There is also still no proof about the Zero from you here.

None either on the 50 caliber thread you started where Havok mentioned you fired from 1 K away and then come here complaining 50 cals are weak. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

JG53Frankyboy
05-07-2008, 02:45 AM
Originally posted by Blue_Baron:
...............Finally - the A6M3 with clipped wings carred 100 rounds of 20mm per gun, not 60, and they were cartridge fed. It feels like 60 in the game.

you may feel that - but in game the A6M3 has 100rpg.................

Phil_K
05-10-2008, 10:52 AM
I used to drive a Subaru Sakai. Very reliable and excellent 4WD handling.

VW-IceFire
05-10-2008, 02:53 PM
I get the impression now that we're all being had...Blue Baron posts all of these weird, sometimes cryptic messages, but never replies to them after or just sends one liners. I hope I'm wrong.

Blue_Baron
05-13-2008, 10:05 AM
CFS3 does not have Japanes aircraft that I am aware of. Thought it was all Europe and ground attack stuff.

No, Microsoft has always gone for an arcade approach to their SIMS, stopping at 80 percent accuracy for playability.

There are many CSF2 flaws, even the book it comes with has mistakes. Poor QC by Microsoft all the way.

How ever, Sakai was consulted extensively on the Zero flight qualities, and I think that the Zero is what it is in CSF2.

It is obvious there is a huge anti Western setiment in Russia, to the point of skewing the facts.

I would GLADLY put ANY American Fighter group P51 or not up against any fughter group Stalin had opposed.

If you call mass graves, torture and executions of innocent family members the way to go and live GIVE ME A BREAK.

DKoor
05-13-2008, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Blue_Baron:
There are many CSF2 flaws +1

Man... when I thought that at the time I really enjoyed that CFS2 even go online to play it...
But that game, and its successor CFS3 are really "child games" compared to the IL2 even with all its flaws.

Somehow I think that no company will be able to surpass Maddox Games flight sims for quite some time, or even IL2 itself for that matter.

joeap
05-15-2008, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by Blue_Baron:
CFS3 does not have Japanes aircraft that I am aware of. Thought it was all Europe and ground attack stuff.

No, Microsoft has always gone for an arcade approach to their SIMS, stopping at 80 percent accuracy for playability.

There are many CSF2 flaws, even the book it comes with has mistakes. Poor QC by Microsoft all the way.

How ever, Sakai was consulted extensively on the Zero flight qualities, and I think that the Zero is what it is in CSF2.

It is obvious there is a huge anti Western setiment in Russia, to the point of skewing the facts.

I would GLADLY put ANY American Fighter group P51 or not up against any fughter group Stalin had opposed.

If you call mass graves, torture and executions of innocent family members the way to go and live GIVE ME A BREAK.

Well I am with you up until the bit about Sakain being consulted extensively. He was consulted but I never read anywhere how much he was consulted, I used to play MSFA extensively and saw too many addons advertised with with "X rea life Y pilot consulted", often true but you never could be sure.

As for the last bit "If you call mass graves, torture and executions of innocent family members the way to go and live GIVE ME A BREAK" who the hell said that??

Plus it has nothing to do with the modelling of Western vs. Russian aircraft etc. or did you not read Icefire's post that most experts for example (western as well) rate Soviet machine guns very highly. To give one example.

msalama
05-18-2008, 04:10 AM
If you call mass graves, torture and executions of innocent family members the way to go and live GIVE ME A BREAK.

So people occasionally flying USSR pixel planes for fun - like myself - qualify in your book as such then, I take it? What a f**king ***hat, this boy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Not the first one we've seen, though... and unfortunately, won't be the last either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

joeap
05-18-2008, 09:42 AM
Hey there haven't seen you in awhile!!

M_Gunz
05-18-2008, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you call mass graves, torture and executions of innocent family members the way to go and live GIVE ME A BREAK.

So people occasionally flying USSR pixel planes for fun - like myself - qualify in your book as such then, I take it? What a f**king ***hat, this boy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Not the first one we've seen, though... and unfortunately, won't be the last either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That whole bit including the innocent family members was a classic flanking ATM (Advanced Troll Maneuver).

msalama
05-18-2008, 10:21 PM
Hiya guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm taking a hiatus of sorts from IL-2 ATM, having played nothing else for the last couple of years, so I've been kind of quiet around here as well lately. Will get back to it in the near future, though, because you guys most certainly need more Pe-2s and Sturmoviks for cannon fodder online http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S! guys and keep the sunny side up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Chivas
05-19-2008, 09:47 AM
CFS 2 was OK for its time, but nothing compared to the IL-2 series.

You will have to wait for the Pacific theater to return in the SOW series to get to the next benchmark in Pacific combat immersion. By the time the Pacific theater comes, the SOW engine will be complete except for adding extra features so the majority of work will be concentrated on maps and aircraft.

Enforcer572005
05-20-2008, 10:37 PM
I flew CFS2 extensively for a couple of yrs, made a cmpn called 87 days of cactus, and aquired nearly every user mod needed to make the thing ALMOST work. It had potential, but was nowhere near finished. The FMB was a near useless piece of garbage, though it would have been great as designed if it just worked.

They must not have listened too much to Sakai, as the Zero FM was lousy. That silly thing would fall off into a spin if you tried to make a sharp turn, as did the P-38. Everyone I knew who flew that off or online used custom FMs that were far more realistic and usable (there were several sources of really good stuff if you looked). The Zeke in Il2 is far more realistic methinks than the one in Il2, as it can actually be flown in combat without losing control in a simple turn.

After Il2 came out, I left cfs2 and never looked back. I did like the QUALITY user made adon stuff, as there were alot of planes, ships, etc, that were very well made. However, there was so much messed up with it as to be absurd. Bombers dropping only one bomb, losing nearly all turn rate if hit once in the left wingtip, planes rolling cross country and cross water rather than flying to their targets, a million useless things that were partially correct eventually by users, but there was never any kind of fix issued by MS for the worse problems. I swore I would nver buy another MS sim or game, and I hvent since.

SeaFireLIV
05-21-2008, 04:43 AM
"Zero Fix Required for IL2 "


Really? first time I seen anyone say that nothing needs fixing in IL2.

ElAurens
05-21-2008, 05:39 AM
The only issue that the Zeke has is the overmodeled Wildcat.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif