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View Full Version : TrackIR and Vector Expansion did I do "da right thang"?



Worf101
09-20-2005, 12:43 PM
Okay, I saved my sheckles and just bought a TrackIR Pro3 with Vector Expansion. Please, tell me I dood the right thing and it's not going to take me months to master like rudder pedals?

Da Worfster

Worf101
09-20-2005, 12:43 PM
Okay, I saved my sheckles and just bought a TrackIR Pro3 with Vector Expansion. Please, tell me I dood the right thing and it's not going to take me months to master like rudder pedals?

Da Worfster

dieg777
09-20-2005, 12:47 PM
the single best thing for flight sims bar none in my opinion- better than pedals, new graphics etc- load latest drivers and use charvels profile which comes on disc or you can download this from naturalpoints site and good to go. see lots of praise here

http://www.airwarfare.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=26&sid...2e5e4af270c4c934b2a1 (http://www.airwarfare.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=26&sid=b2af89bb348a2e5e4af270c4c93 4b2a1)

achtung2004
09-20-2005, 12:49 PM
TIR is a must have. It takes a little while to adjust your head movement etc. But give it a week and you will sing its praises.

Worf101
09-20-2005, 01:01 PM
Any performance hit with this thing?

Da Worfster

stubby
09-20-2005, 01:09 PM
TiR is a must have for all simmers.

Just so you know, TiR 2dof is supported by Il2 but not 6dof. To get a feel for how 6dof feels and adds to the immersion process, go play FS 2004 or BOBII. Both games support it and man, what a difference.

As for getting use to it in 2dof mode, not that big of deal. The biggest issue is dialing in the settings that fit your style. I have very conservative settings and near zero curves. This makes Tir slow more like casually panning with the mouse. I love the thing and can't fly without any more. It would be like giving up my CH combat stick and being forced to use a keyboard to fly with.

T_O_A_D
09-20-2005, 01:09 PM
Yes and double yes, It takes the game to an all new level for you, in Immersion. It will however not make you an ACE, unless of course you already are. Aces are rare, no matter the perifials.

I had knee surgery last week and have been flying with one leg, I tried to revert to the twisty stick again. I could nopt hit a dang thing.

So I now fly with the right leg only I push and pull the pedals with one foot. I am able to still hold my own.

Sort of feel like Douglas Baderhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

My point it pedals are important, But without TIR it would be the equivelent of lopping off your head and then TIR would be usless. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

PUT YOUR HEAD IN THE GAME!!!

Saunders1953
09-20-2005, 02:08 PM
Worf101...No mistake whatsoever if you really like this sim. I flew Wonder Woman view almost exclusively for about a year because neither HOTAS nor mouse emulators really helped me much in the heat of combat--too uncoordinated I gues. I got TIR Pro 3 in February and now fly only with cockpit on, and it is a superb immersion enhancer. I haven't even activated the vector expansion (it's supposed to help a bit I guess even though IL2 doesn't support 6DOF) but the 3 prong metal thingy on my hat is a BIG improvement over the one little patch on the brim--or the round ball wrapped in reflective tape that I tried. Anyhoo, dogfights are particularly fun--rolling, scissoring, Split S-ing and following your opponent the whole time is a real blast. I especially like it when my opponent is under me and I roll to follow him and rollout and on his tail. Just great fun and money well spent.

womenfly
09-20-2005, 03:13 PM
How many patches have they released due to bugs on this product?

That says it all ..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

georgeo76
09-20-2005, 06:01 PM
This is for the benefit of those who want to wear a mouse on their head, want look silly, but don't want to pay $130 for the privelage.

http://denisefleming.com/images/activities/Mouse-Hat.gif

blakduk
09-20-2005, 07:04 PM
Worf101- I haven't noticed any performance hit using the trackIR pro. However, i have noticed a hit to the framerates due to my using the cockpit on all the time.
Like Saunders i used to use the wonderwoman view all the time as i couldnt get used to the hat switch or mouse view. When i switch on the cockpit view i noticed my framerates dropped significantly- it means i've had to dial back my display settings more (i use a laptop). It doesnt affect my gameplay and when i replay the idiot ways i get myself killed i dial the settings up again to get the benefit of the eye-candy on the exterior views.
Its remarkable when i watch tracks of dogfighting from in the cockpit just how much i look around- its something i'm not really aware of in the game. I think it demonstrates how intuitive i found the trackIR.
Its also made me aware of just how restricted the views were in planes like the A6M Zero with the lattice work of glass panels. From my model making days as a kid i always assumed the views were excellent given how much glass they incorporated.

horseback
09-21-2005, 12:14 AM
Took me a couple of days. One warning, though: if you're gonna fly all day, you will have a stiff neck.

But it's worth it.

cheers

horseback

SithSpeeder
09-21-2005, 09:07 AM
For IL2, as you may or may not know, you can also sway your body left and right a bit to achieve the same thing as looking (i.e. turning your head) left and right. Make sure you have an adequate deadzone and a "recentering" button on your stick. After a week, you won't get motion sick anymore. At least, that was my experience.

Any hit in the frames should be negligible (0-3 maybe?).

* _54th_Speeder *

Capt_Haddock
09-21-2005, 11:19 AM
Yep. Almost no hit in fps for me, and my PC is getting really old.

Definitely a must have for flightsims. The best invention since the joystick.

And if you can afford it get FS2004 to see the 6DOF in action. Flying planes like the Tiger Moth is like nothing else... It really puts you in the cockpit.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh3.jpg

WWSensei
09-21-2005, 11:45 AM
georgeo76,

I have had it for two years and never worn a mouse on my head. If you want to whine sour grapes the least you could do is not bold face lie about it. You seem compelled to post a negative comment in every TIR thread. Frankly, it's just pathetic.

WWSensei
09-21-2005, 11:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
Took me a couple of days. One warning, though: if you're gonna fly all day, you will have a stiff neck.

But it's worth it.

cheers

horseback </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have a stiff neck then you don't have it configured properly. There is no reason to have either a sore back or neck with this device unless you are setting it up in such a way as to cause it.

georgeo76
09-21-2005, 12:09 PM
WWSensei, take a deep breath dude. I'm only kidding. I think TIR is a really cool idea, it's just too expensive and not that useful.

It retails for the same price as an X-52 joystick. And the X52 can do everything TIR dose, plus you can fly your plane with it.

TIR is not realistic or intuitive. Humans look around with their eyes, not their head. If TIR tracked eye movement, I'd already own it. But as it is, you are using your head to emulate mouse movement; thus my allusion to a head-mouse.

As to why I post in every TIR thread. I post because I think it's funny that so many TIR owners take it so personnaly like they hold stock in the company or something.

You are not what you own, learn to separate yourself from your possessions. When I comment your stuff, it's not an attack on you. Relax.

Kugelpanzer
09-21-2005, 12:47 PM
I've had TIR3 PRO for a couple of weeks now.
I think it's the best thing for flightsims since joysticks.

The vector expansion feature is superb. I'm actually playing more CFS3 than Il2 series now because of it, and I'm a IL2 fanboy..

It takes some getting used to, but 95% of the initial problems is caused by the dots moving out of the emitter range.
I think you can set it up ok in a few hours
of flying and adjustment.

x6BL_Brando
09-21-2005, 01:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">WWSensei, take a deep breath dude. I'm only kidding. I think TIR is a really cool idea, it's just too expensive and not that useful.

It retails for the same price as an X-52 joystick. And the X52 can do everything TIR dose, plus you can fly your plane with it.

TIR is not realistic or intuitive. Humans look around with their eyes, not their head. If TIR tracked eye movement, I'd already own it. But as it is, you are using your head to emulate mouse movement; thus my allusion to a head-mouse.

As to why I post in every TIR thread. I post because I think it's funny that so many TIR owners take it so personnaly like they hold stock in the company or something.

You are not what you own, learn to separate yourself from your possessions. When I comment your stuff, it's not an attack on you. Relax. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think Sensei's got a point. To paraphrase you instead, how about - You are not what's in your bank account, learn to separate yourself from your money.
As for "not realistic or intuitive", what does that mean? What piece of computer hardware is? Of course it's not a Mk.1 eyeball - nor is my monitor 2,000 square miles of open sky http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">it's just too expensive and not that useful.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE> Funny, that's exactly my opinion of the X52
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
As to why I post in every TIR thread. I post because I think it's funny that so many TIR owners take it so personnaly..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You and your therapist may want to work on that.

Capt_Haddock
09-21-2005, 04:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by georgeo76:
TIR is not realistic or intuitive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What?! You haven't tried it, have you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Track IR reminds me of the time when I first bought a sound card for my PC all those years ago. You see in those days things like a "Sound Blaster 16" didn't come as a standard. Well... What a shock it was when I fired the first game with it. I simply couldn't understand how I could have played games without it.

Now it's the same with TrackIR. I cannot even imagine playing a flightsim that doesn't support it. And to be honest, even IL2 is hard to play after trying 6DOF in other sims...

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh3.jpg

T_O_A_D
09-21-2005, 06:04 PM
Yep if TIR is set up properly you will have no side affect. Stiff neck,back ect.

Your head when looking back will only turn at most 2 1/2 inches one way or the other including up and down. http://home.mchsi.com/~tagalong/Head_travel.jpg
I actually when dog fighting move my head as little as possible and track them with my eyes until a cockpit bar gets in the way then I move of course.

I have more info in my sig on it. Most of it is from my first unit Trackir 1 I feel it is alot better than that now with the Trackir 3 pro

If I played those other games that supported Vector I would upgrade to it. But I have no stutters now in IL2 so I see no need in spending the 30+ bucks for more head gear.

blakduk
09-21-2005, 09:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SithSpeeder:
For IL2, as you may or may not know, you can also sway your body left and right a bit to achieve the same thing as looking (i.e. turning your head) left and right.
* _54th_Speeder * </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SithSpeeder- if you get the vector expansion it will probably stop that happening. It allows more freedom in that you dont have to be so mindful at sitting in one spot- it takes its cues from three spots in space to calculate a rotational angle rather than just where the spot is detected on the camera.

Flying_Nutcase
09-22-2005, 01:48 AM
Your next thread will be "I did the right thing by buying Track IR & Vector Expansion!".

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Worf101
09-22-2005, 09:47 AM
It should be here about next Monday. Give me a few days to suss it out and I'll let you know if I'm "one of the converted". All these years I never used the mnouse or hat to follow... just arrows and Icons... silly me.

Da Worfster

WWSensei
09-22-2005, 06:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by georgeo76:
WWSensei, take a deep breath dude. I'm only kidding. I think TIR is a really cool idea, it's just too expensive and not that useful. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your opinion based on no experience with the product. As both a gamer and a real world pilot (~3000 hours of GA, an additional ~3000 hours in various high performance jet aircraft and around 100 hours of actual combat time) I can assure it is useful. Expense is relative. $130 is 3 games. I've gotten far more usefulness out of my TIR than in several stacks of 3 games I own.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It retails for the same price as an X-52 joystick. And the X52 can do everything TIR dose, plus you can fly your plane with it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have had both. Sorry, but Saitek quality is the pits. After 3 replacements I went back to my MSPP2 I bought 5 years ago. TIR hasn't broken on me once and allows me to utilize a view system that is both natural and intuitive. To use your logic one doesn't need a joystick as the aircraft are flyable with a keyboard.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">TIR is not realistic or intuitive. Humans look around with their eyes, not their head. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now you are just talking out of ignorance, and a severe case of sour grapes. If humans didn't turn their head to look our field of vision would be severly restrained AND we wouldn't need a neck. Next time you back up in a car try just using your eyes to see behind you without turning your head. Would it be better? Yes, but saying it's useless or non-intuitive is hyperbole. It makes it clear you haven't got a clue. Yet you continue to try and make statements as if you have some knowledge and authority on the subject when it is readily apprent you have none.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If TIR tracked eye movement, I'd already own it. But as it is, you are using your head to emulate mouse movement; thus my allusion to a head-mouse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Except you are discounting the fact that I am using the same muscles in my neck and eyes to do a very natural thing. You trying to argue moving a hatswitch or a mouse stick "is more intuitive"? the fact is you have never tried TIR and have no idea what you are talking about. Simply put, you are talking out of your ****.

People don't just move their head and I do move my eyes when looking. TrackIr moves the framed area of vision much like using your neck to turn your head does. If someone is standing to my right and speaks to me I don't keep my head straight forward and strain my eyeballs to their edges to try and see them. I turn my head. Likewise in game, same muscles to turn my head to look over my shoulder in real life are used in turning my head to look over my virtual shoulders. It is a very natural and intuitive feel. No thinking required.

So, again, it is clear you do not know what you are talking about.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">As to why I post in every TIR thread. I post because I think it's funny that so many TIR owners take it so personnaly like they hold stock in the company or something. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, but someone who feels compelled to post in every thread, posting statements that are not true based on no experience with the subject matter is an indication of someone with a sever envy problem....not a sense of humor.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You are not what you own, learn to separate yourself from your possessions. When I comment your stuff, it's not an attack on you. Relax. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh please, keep the pseudo-intellectual BS to yourself. I've seen better amateur analysis out of a fortune cookie. I don't equate myself with the equipment. My issue is seeing someone repeatedly lie about something they know nothing about.

You continue to post in threads about an item you haven't owned, don't understand how it works, and obviously have a fixation on and yet you maintain I'm the one with the problem? Ummmm.....yeah....ok....sure......whatever you say....

I'm not the one that needs to relax. Don't get your panties in a bunch because I called on your lie.

Bearcat99
09-22-2005, 08:26 PM
Worf IMO if you can afford it it is worth it. You got the 6DoF and even though FB doesnt support it.. but if I were buying a TIR today I would still go with 6DoF. Have you tried VAC yet? If not then you need to. It is Voice Activated Commands... a lot like Shoot 1.6... only better. Easier to program and a GUI. IMO A HOTAS setup of somekind (preferably FFB ..) ,rudderpedals,TIR and VAC are the big four as far as hardware (outside of a decent rig of couse) that take this sim over the top and add to immersion up the yin yang. VAC will alter your offline or coop experience for sure.

blakduk
09-22-2005, 09:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Worf IMO if you can afford it it is worth it. You got the 6DoF and even though FB doesnt support it.. but if I were buying a TIR today I would still go with 6DoF. Have you tried VAC yet? If not then you need to. It is Voice Activated Commands... a lot like Shoot 1.6... only better. Easier to program and a GUI. IMO A HOTAS setup of somekind (preferably FFB ..) ,rudderpedals,TIR and VAC are the big four as far as hardware (outside of a decent rig of couse) that take this sim over the top and add to immersion up the yin yang. VAC will alter your offline or coop experience for sure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bearcat- pardon my ignorance, what is VAC?
Is it a third party software, hardware or combo thing?

Holycannoli
09-22-2005, 09:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">TIR is not realistic or intuitive. Humans look around with their eyes, not their head. If TIR tracked eye movement, I'd already own it. But as it is, you are using your head to emulate mouse movement; thus my allusion to a head-mouse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahh but we're not yet at that point where we can wear "monitor" glasses or something similar with TIR and be able to look all around (like turning to look over your shoulder IRL to do the same ingame)

I'm sure it's being developed in some capacity though.

stubby
09-23-2005, 06:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by georgeo76:
It retails for the same price as an X-52 joystick. And the X52 can do everything TIR dose, plus you can fly your plane with it.

TIR is not realistic or intuitive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The true ramblings of an idiot. Your rainbow colored clown wig, floppy shoes and milk-squirting bow-tie await you as a departing gift.

Bearcat99
09-23-2005, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blakduk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Worf IMO if you can afford it it is worth it. You got the 6DoF and even though FB doesnt support it.. but if I were buying a TIR today I would still go with 6DoF. Have you tried VAC yet? If not then you need to. It is Voice Activated Commands... a lot like Shoot 1.6... only better. Easier to program and a GUI. IMO A HOTAS setup of somekind (preferably FFB ..) ,rudderpedals,TIR and VAC are the big four as far as hardware (outside of a decent rig of couse) that take this sim over the top and add to immersion up the yin yang. VAC will alter your offline or coop experience for sure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bearcat- pardon my ignorance, what is VAC?
Is it a third party software, hardware or combo thing? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hit the Sturmovik Essentials link in my sig and go down to Shift_E's VAC. It is a community member made utility that allows you to interface with your keyboard by speaking. So all the AI command can be programmed in.. in fact there is a decent profile already on the VAC site. ****_E asks for a small donation but IMO the $10 is well worth it. The product is GREAT and can be used far beyond the confines of this sim. It is a very good program. There are other programs out that cost 3 times as much and yet dont have the support that you get with VAC.

Keep in mind that there are TIR alternatives that IMO dont work as well as TIR... but can suffice to give you greater options as far as a viewing solution goes. Look again in the Essentials link. Cam to Pan, Joy to Key and a few others are there.

Mortecai1313
09-23-2005, 08:51 AM
I just received my Vector yesterday. Before I got it I searched the boards here, NaturalPoint, and SimHQ and I saw several negative posts about configuration difficulties and bugs. I was starting to wonder if I had made a bad decision since I really only play IL2 series, which doesn't support 6DOF.

I uninstalled my old software (4.0.20) and installed the latest available software, downloaded and installed Charvel's IL2 profile, attached the clip to the TrackIR hat and I fired up PF-merged. I was very impressed. I loved it--WAIT NO!! It started twitching badly at certain angles making things quite unplayable. I quit out of the game and looked at the tracker view in the vector software. The twitching was being caused by the reflector on the TrackIR hat and the middle clip reflector flipping from green to red at specific angles. I covered the TrackIR hat reflector with some electrical tape and the problem was solved. Played for a good 2 hours and absolutely loved it. Much more immersive now. Definately an improvement over the TrackIR 3Pro (non-vector). I feel my money was well spent and I'm excited to play a 6DOF game now. Probly gonna give BoBII WoV a shot now that the patch has come out.

Capt_Haddock
09-23-2005, 12:08 PM
Glad you like it Mortecai http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Make sure you download Aces High II (http://www.hitechcreations.com/frameset1.html?../main.html) to experience the 6DOF expansion in action. It's a free download if you just try it offline. A glimpse of the future BOB.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh3.jpg

georgeo76
09-23-2005, 01:26 PM
I don't like your fancy head mouse and all of a sudden I'm a pathetic, lying idiot. Why don't you guys address my ideas instead of my character, it's called credibility. Dang, I guess it's only a matter of time before I'm compared to Hitler.

Talk about product loyalty.

facts:
$130 is a lot of money for a head mouse with no buttons

Humans use their eyes to look around. Head movement is only to accommodate.

the X52 is a pile, I'm on my third.

Learning to use your head as a mouse is no more intuitive or realistic than using your hand or thumb. It's all in your hea..... er mind

People should not take criticism of products they own to heart, it's creepy. That goes doubly for sports teams and political parties.

----"To keep it in your mind and not fergit
----That it is not he or she or them or it
----That you belong to."

I get enjoyment from being adversarial. If I thought everyone agreed with me, I'd change my mind.

WWSensei is a loyal consumer and a decorated veteran of the cola wars.

I realize its contradictory to complain about character attacks only to make fun of someone later in the same post.

Capt_Haddock
09-24-2005, 03:39 AM
Have you realised that in this thread, the only one who criticises TrackIR is the one who's never tried it?

Makes you think... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh3.jpg

WWSensei
09-24-2005, 07:38 AM
Actually georgeo76, I addressed every one of your points. You just choose to ignore them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I get enjoyment from being adversarial. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sums up your entire point. You have none, you just like to be difficult, and lacking any original thought of your own you can only go contrary to something else. Your twice as easy to lead by the nose as any fanboi. I see the same behavior in children. Usually they grow out of it by 6 or 7.

Cola wars? Heh. Ramblings of a never-was on topics he posesses no knowledge of.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Learning to use your head as a mouse is no more intuitive or realistic than using your hand or thumb. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The fact you cannot see the absurdity of such a statement is about all the point anyone needs to make. Once again, showing you do not have a clue what you are talking about.

georgeo76
09-24-2005, 08:23 AM
How did you address my points? You said I'm wrong because I lie, because I'm childish, ignorant, envious, pseudo-intellect, and absurd.

A suitable lesson for a 6 year old would be: calling names dose nothing to invalidate arguments.

You did make argument and I'll address that. You said:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">TrackIr moves the framed area of vision much like using your neck to turn your head does. If someone is standing to my right and speaks to me I don't keep my head straight forward and strain my eyeballs to their edges to try and see them. I turn my head. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On the face of it, this argument makes a natural point. Yes, we do orient our heads to a 'field of view' and then turn our eyes to focus on the things therein. But what you overlook is that to see your friend standing 90 degrees to your right, your likely to turn your head 90 degrees. That's natural.

But if we are to relate TIR to that situation, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that you turn your head 8 or 10 degrees while your friend and presumably the entire universe spins on you as an axis to bring him the other 80 degrees? I'm sure that that would be very disorienting at first. Sure you could get used to it, but 'getting used to it' is exactly the contrary of intuitive. You can also get used to moving your field of view with your thumb.

T_O_A_D
09-24-2005, 10:46 AM
This pretty much says it all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by georgeo76:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/georgeo76/buck2.gif
Well, I, uh, don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up, sir. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

After this I see no more reason to continue this argument with georgeo76 guys. Let him just live in his world as he see it. Hopefully he will let us live in ours, and just drop the waste of time being pursued here.

Besides if it gets excelated much more, I'll have to use the Mod powers to clean it up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif