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Mon Pavion
05-02-2004, 09:43 PM
I was reading this book called "Submarine" by Ed Breach, and he tells the story of the USS (i forgot the name and i am too lazy to go get the book). During a night time surface attack the sub fired on a convoy of jap merchants. One of the fish went hay wire(rudder got stick or something), and began to turn into what would eventually be a complete 360. This of course ment it would end up where it started, the sub. It wound up hitting the USS "whatever" in the aft section as the captain tried to get out of the course of the wild fish.

So, what about more realistic torps in SHIII? How about premauter detonations, rudder/motor malfunctions, ect...? Would something like that be possible, or is that asking too much?

Mon Pavion
05-02-2004, 09:43 PM
I was reading this book called "Submarine" by Ed Breach, and he tells the story of the USS (i forgot the name and i am too lazy to go get the book). During a night time surface attack the sub fired on a convoy of jap merchants. One of the fish went hay wire(rudder got stick or something), and began to turn into what would eventually be a complete 360. This of course ment it would end up where it started, the sub. It wound up hitting the USS "whatever" in the aft section as the captain tried to get out of the course of the wild fish.

So, what about more realistic torps in SHIII? How about premauter detonations, rudder/motor malfunctions, ect...? Would something like that be possible, or is that asking too much?

Kapitan_Nereus
05-02-2004, 10:43 PM
thats a 180 degree turn http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, 360 and it would have hit the target http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

but i see your point, torps were not very reliable back then, quite a few never exploded when they hit the target.
i would imagine that dud torps and gyro drift would at least be included.
we'll just have to wait and see if your other points are included.

"The Hunt is on..."

Leif...
05-03-2004, 12:42 AM
A circling torpedo circles, thatâ's what they do. So after one complete lap/360 degrees they will hit the sub. Later in the war though a safety mechanism was built in that unarmed (donâ't know the right word here) the torpedo if it turned more then 180 degrees.

Leifâ...

CDragon
05-03-2004, 07:41 AM
I believe it was Richard O'Kane's boat, the USS Tang. The boat sank, but O'Kane and his crew survived and were POWs for the remainder of the war.

SailorSteve
05-03-2004, 08:51 AM
It was Tang, but it was a night surface attack, the boat was sitting still and the only survivors were O'Kane and the bridge crew, six men if I remember correctly.

______________________________
Always keep you clothes and your weapons where you can find them in the dark.

Shan_Hackett
05-04-2004, 10:03 PM
Breif history of tha Tang, if anyone is interested;

http://www.subnet.com/fleet/ss306.htm

natty-dreadlock
05-05-2004, 04:54 PM
darn it, im reading Dickie O'Kane's book now...I knew he was sunk but didnt know how! you guys spoiled it for me!!!!!

SailorSteve
05-05-2004, 05:22 PM
I'd apologize, but you called him "Dickie", so http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

______________________________
Always keep you clothes and your weapons where you can find them in the dark.

CDragon
05-05-2004, 07:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SailorSteve:
I'd apologize, but you called him "Dickie", so http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I completely understand his motives for calling Capt. O'Kane "Dickie".
The curse filters for this forum replace the word spelled "D I C K" with ****, but they allow "Dickie".

SailorSteve
05-05-2004, 09:35 PM
****, ****, ****.

Wow! you're rigbt! Learn something new every day.

Sorry about that, NattyD.

______________________________
Always keep you clothes and your weapons where you can find them in the dark.

HeibgesU999
05-06-2004, 01:37 AM
on manual TDC, the torpedoes should have maybe a 50% chance to hit at 2000meters,
10% at 3000meters.
80% at 601 meters to 1000meteres
90% at 600meters or less.

1. modified by XO and TCO skill
1. modified by crew torpedo attack skill
2. modified by angle of attack
3. modified by speed of target
4. modified by type of torpedo(year of war dependant, especially faulty depth keeping gear)
5. modified by turning of uboat
6. modified by target type (easier to estimate speed of merchants compared to destroyers and submarines)


torpedo failure
each torpedo has a base rating for outright failure
1. modified by year of war
2. modified by torpedo mechanics' skill rating.

torpedos can pass under targets depending on sea-state and depth set

collecting target data for firing solutions should be time dependent. speed of merchants should be able to be determined during overhaul manuever.

CDragon
05-06-2004, 06:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
on manual TDC, the torpedoes should have maybe a 50% chance to hit at 2000meters,
10% at 3000meters.
80% at 601 meters to 1000meteres
90% at 600meters or less.

1. modified by XO and TCO skill
1. modified by crew torpedo attack skill
2. modified by angle of attack
3. modified by speed of target
4. modified by type of torpedo(year of war dependant, especially faulty depth keeping gear)
5. modified by turning of uboat
6. modified by target type (easier to estimate speed of merchants compared to destroyers and submarines)


torpedo failure
each torpedo has a base rating for outright failure
1. modified by year of war
2. modified by torpedo mechanics' skill rating.

torpedos can pass under targets depending on sea-state and depth set

collecting target data for firing solutions should be time dependent. speed of merchants should be able to be determined during overhaul manuever.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My suggestion would be to have the fire control officer enter the same information YOU would. Basically, I see the two types of attack runs being crewed like this:

SUBMERGED:

1) You at the periscope. You provide the range, the bearing, the speed, the AOB, the course, all the things a real Kaleun would provide.
2) The IWO enters this data into the TDC. The rate at which he does so, and his accuracy, are attributes that will improve with practice and experience, and diminish with fatigue and poor morale.
3) You say "Los!" to fire. The order is relayed to the torpedo room, and the torpedo officer launches the fish. The speed of the relay depends upon the ability of however many people the order needs to pass thru to get to the torpedo room. I think a telephone or voice tube was sufficient. The speed at which the torpedo officer carries out this order is an attribute that will improve with practice and experience, and diminish with fatigue and poor morale.

SURFACED:

1) You are on the bridge. Your IWO is on the UZO. In some way, you indicate to the IWO which ships to target. The IWO calls out range, bearing, speed, AOB. Once again the speed and accuracy of his performance is attribute-driven. The IIWO or whomever enters this information into the TDC. His performance is attribute-driven. And so on down the line.

Leif...
05-06-2004, 08:38 AM
Sounds good to me CDragon, what also has to be selected before firing is which tubes to connect to the TDC. Also the torpedoes speed and range should be entered/selected somehow. If you connect more then one itâ's obviously a fan shoot and thus the width of the spread has to be entered.

Leifâ...

CDragon
05-06-2004, 09:09 AM
Yes! And all this gets done by ordering a crewman/petty officer to do it!

I imagine the tutorial for the game being a "prequel" to the campaign. Call it "Workup". You'd be assigned a new boat, given a new crew, who, depending on when during the war you start, will be a mix of veterans and recruits. And you would carry out training exercises in the Baltic: diving, evading, stalking, torpedo firing. When you're done, there is a little celebratory video and then the campaign starts proper.

natty-dreadlock
05-06-2004, 08:43 PM
with auto TDC, will we be able to choose a constant bearing setting. that way we can aim for certain parts of the ship. basically giving us control of certain aspects of the solution.

HeibgesU999
05-06-2004, 09:03 PM
maybe your officers and petty officers will have a command and control rating for how effectively the can control the ship?

maybe crews will have a teamwork rating?

CDragon
05-07-2004, 06:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
maybe your officers and petty officers will have a command and control rating for how effectively the can control the ship?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, definitely. But their Command/Control rating applies to their ability to handle the men under them, not the actual ship itself.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeibgesU999:
maybe crews will have a teamwork rating?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats the officers' and petty officers' job. How well a team performs depends somewhat on the officer leading them. Take the petty officer in charge of the forward torpedo room. His command and control rating would manifest itself by affecting how well the "Lords" performed their jobs. Reload times would be quicker under a good leader than a bad one. Torpedo failure rate would be less under a good leader than a bad one, presumably because the good leader makes better sure the eels are regularly maintained. You could even throw in a "style" rating for a leader. A harsh leader may get results, but the morale of his team would suffer. That sort of thing.

Its all just one big equation, with every man, every team, a variable in it. A well-disciplined, well-trained crew, with good officers add up to a great boat. It might reflect on you, too. When, in the course of the Patented AOD-like campaign http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, you are transferred to a new boat, you would be able to take along crew members and officers who you've worked hard to make into an efficient, fighting team. The better officer you are, the more men would follow you to the new boat. Kind of gratifying, a bit romantic I'm sure.

HeibgesU999
05-07-2004, 10:47 AM
i would like to see a crew management done with primary, secondary, and tertiary attributes

for instance, the successful torpedo attack might be equal to something of the effect of:

(kalues tactics rating) + (officers/petty officers command and control rating) + (crews skill rating)divided by 3.

this would add greater diversity to crews and missions. no two boats would ever handle exaclty the same depending on how the crew and officers are developed.