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Secudus2004
04-23-2005, 05:31 PM
What was the fastest production fighter produced between say, 1939 - 1948

It can be either a single or a twin engined model and must be a production A/C (At least 150 being produced)No prototypes or special speedsters please. Give speeds at both high and low altitudes...

Regards

Sec.

SkyChimp
04-23-2005, 06:38 PM
If not the fastest, then very near it would be the P-51H - 487 mph.

Jasko76
04-23-2005, 06:53 PM
Fastest WWII fighter was the Do 335 Pfeil - 474 mph (758 km/h).

Rare Bear did 528 mph, but that's a Reno racer.

Oh and appx 540 is about the fastest any propeller driven aircraft has flown, never mind piston only. Any faster than that and the props vibrate themselves into pieces from the tips, and they just can't push any harder against the rapidly increasing drag.

faustnik
04-23-2005, 07:01 PM
P-51H.

WOLFMondo
04-23-2005, 07:11 PM
Its all ready dependent on height. The fastest at SL won't be the fastest at 20,000ft etc.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
If not the fastest, then very near it would be the P-51H - 487 mph. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Supermarin Spitful (Spitfire with a laminar flow wing) did 494mph but it was never put into full scale production.

SkyChimp
04-23-2005, 07:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Fastest WWII fighter was the Do 335 Pfeil - 474 mph (758 km/h).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

P-51H was a WWII fighter. All of them were produced before the end of the war. They were just never sent into combat, and served within the US.

The P-47M did 475 mph. That plane did see combat.

Charos
04-23-2005, 07:27 PM
http://www.redvsblue.com/home.php

Come on admit it - we just all knew it was gunna happen. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

As you were.

p1ngu666
04-23-2005, 08:11 PM
hornet was good for 472-85mph

wayno7777
04-23-2005, 09:32 PM
Focke-Wulf Ta 152 H-1...its ceiling was over 48,000 feet and it could reach a top speed of 472 miles per hour at 41,000 feet with the GM-1 boost.
P-47M Max speed: 470-480 mph @ 28500 feet. The P-47N speeds up to 465 mph.
P-51H-5-NA Maximum Speed: 487 m.p.h. @ 25,000 ft.

woofiedog
04-23-2005, 10:33 PM
F-15 Reporter

Link: http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/northrop_p61.htm

Horsepower (P-61C and F-15): 2,800hp R-2800-73
Maximum, Clean (F-15): 12,700kg (28,000 lbs.)
Maximum Speed (F-15): 440 mph (708 km/h)
Range - Max. Fuel (F-15): 4,000 Miles (6440 km)

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/p61-23.jpg

The first production F-15A-1-NO was accepted in September 1946. However, the contract was abruptly canceled in 1947, possibly because the performance of the Reporter was rapidly being overshadowed by jets. Only 36 F-15As were accepted before the contract was cancelled. The last F-15A was accepted by the USAAF in April of 1947. The last F-15 to be produced (serial number 45-59335) was produced as an F-15A-5-NO, which differed from the Block-1 version mainly in having a new internal camera installation in the nose. It seems that this change had been contemplated for the last 20 F-15s as well, since some records indicate that these were all eventually redesignated as F-15A-5-NO.

F-15 Reporters served for a couple years in the immediate postwar USAAF. Several served in the American occupation of Japan, and participated in the Post-Hostilities Mapping Program, in which extensive photographs were taken of beaches, villages, road networks, and cultural centers. A few also served in the Philippines.

Spare parts became a problem for the F-15s in the late 1940s, and both damaged and flyable Reporters were cannibalized to keep the rest of them flying. In August, 1948, the separate F-category for reconnaissance aircraft was eliminated, and the P-for-pursuit category was replaced by F-for-fighter. Surviving Black Widows were redesignated F-61, and the surviving Reporters were redesignated RF-61C (since they were basically modified P-61Cs). On April 1, 1949, the only outfit still using RF-61Cs (the 82nd Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron) was deactivated, and all surviving RF-61Cs were reassigned to the 35th Maintenance Squadron at Johnson AFB for disposal. Some were disposed of as surplus on the commercial market, but others were scrapped.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/images/p61-24.jpg

Northrop F2T-2 Reporter
MODEL DETAILS‚‚ā¨"ĚThis kit-bashed conversion of Monogram's 1:48th scale P-61A Black Widow represents what a Navy F2T-2 Reporter would have looked like in the guise of VW-4's "Hurricane Chasers."

After World War Two, the Air Force needed a new long-range, high-speed recon aircraft. The XF-15 was a late production P-61B (XP-61E) that had its guns, radar, and air-brakes removed, a bubble canopy was fitted, and the nose was filled with a battery of cameras. Production F-15A's (RF-61C) utilized P-61C airframes, engines, and a re-worked camera bay. Even with the "Jet Age" on the horizon, 175 Reporters were ordered, but only 36 were built, and after only 22 months of active service (8th PRS) most were scrapped in 1949. The Navy had experience operating F2T-1's (P-61C Black Widows) in 1946 and 1947 as transition aircraft to train Marine Crops nightfighter crews in intercept tactics before they moved on to the Grumman F7F Tigercat. The F-15A/F2T-2 would have made a kick-*** stable-mate to Navy PB1-W and PB4Y-2 reconnaissance aircraft. The appearance of Lockheed's P2V Neptune in 1947 doomed any further development of a Navy F2T-2 Reporter concept.


http://biomicro.sdstate.edu/pederses/Modelaircraft/Reporter_fly.jpg

wayno7777
04-23-2005, 10:39 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Tigercat.jpg
Specifications (F7F-3):
Engines: Two 2,100hp Pratt & Whitney R-2800-34W Double Wasp 18-cylinder radial piston engines
Performance:
Maximum Speed at 22,200 ft: 435 mph
Cruising Speed at 5,000 ft: 222 mph
Initial Climb Rate: 4,500 feet per minute
Number Built: 364

Number Still Airworthy: 6

Taylortony
04-24-2005, 03:24 AM
Sea Fury was good for 485 mph

http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk/aircraft/typhtem/fury.htm

BUT if you were to put the old girl into a little old dive from say 51,550 FT The good old Spitfire Attained 690 mph (1,110 km/h) or Mach 0.94,which would have been the highest speed ever reached by a propeller driven aircraft.Today it is generally believed that this speed figure is the result of inherent instrument errors and has to be considered unrealistic.


During the spring of 1944 high speed diving trials were being performed at Farnborough to investigate the handling of aircraft at near the sound barrier. Because it had the highest limiting Mach number of any aircraft at that time, a Spitfire XI was chosen to take part in these trials. It was during these trials that EN 409, flown by Squadron Leader Martindale, reached 606 mph (Mach 0.89) in a 45 degree dive. Unfortunately the aircraft could not cope with this speed and the propeller and reduction gear broke off. Martindale successfully glided the twenty miles back to the airfield and landed safely.


On 5 February 1952 a Spitfire Mk. 19 of No. 81 Squadron RAF based in Hong Kong achieved probably the highest altitude ever achieved by a Spitfire. The pilot, Flight Lieutenant Ted Powles, was on a routine flight to survey outside air temperature report on other meteorological conditions at various altitudes in preparation for a proposed new air service through the area. He climbed to 50,000 feet (15,240 m) indicated altitude, with a true altitude of 51,550 feet (15,712 m), which was the highest height ever recorded for a Spitfire. However the cabin pressure fell below a safe level and, in trying to reduce altitude, he entered an uncontrollable dive which shook the aircraft violently. He eventually regained control somewhere below 3,000 feet (900 m). He landed safely and there was no discernible damage to his aircraft. Evaluation of the recorded flight data suggested that in the dive, he achieved a speed of 690 mph (1,110 km/h) or Mach 0.94, which would have been the highest speed ever reached by a propeller driven aircraft. Today it is generally believed that this speed figure may be the result of inherent instrument errors and has to be considered unrealistic...
but you never know, the wing was capable of supersonic flight..............

skabbe
04-24-2005, 04:30 AM
Tempest III made 483mph, without useing extreme hights

Aaron_GT
04-24-2005, 04:41 AM
"Specifications (F7F-3):
Engines: Two 2,100hp Pratt & Whitney R-2800-34W Double Wasp 18-cylinder radial piston engines
Performance:
Maximum Speed at 22,200 ft: 435 mph
Cruising Speed at 5,000 ft: 222 mph
Initial Climb Rate: 4,500 feet per minute
Number Built: 364"

I'm surprised the top speed is a little disappointing for what is, in effect, a 1945 plane (Although the first preproduction planes of both types flew in the same month, the NF30 was delivered for service 2 months later and the F7F missed the war). The Mosquito NF30 had a top speed of 424mph at 26,500 feet, cruise of 380mph at 30,000 ft and was in service from June 1944. The initial rate of climb of the F7F is about twice that of the Mosquito, though. Was the F7F more optimised for low level operations?

I suppose the British equivalent to the F7F would be the Hornet (F.1 - 472 mph) and a climb about the same as the F7F and which also just missed WW2. The F.1 had shorter legs than the F7F, though, and the F.3 took a long time to appear due to a post war slump in demand.

Platypus_1.JaVA
04-24-2005, 04:42 AM
P-51... Tempest... Those are for little boys! The fastest and certainly most deceiving looking piston engined aircraft would be this one: http://www.big-boys.com/articles/lawnfly.html

woofiedog
04-24-2005, 06:02 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif That's One Hec of a Beautiful Bird in the photo wayno7777.

Grendel-B
04-24-2005, 11:54 AM
Do-335 is the fastest produced piston engined fighter of all time. Double engines in one fuselage, flying 350+ knots even on one engine - and leaving all other planes behind it on dust, when pusked to full power. Its 5 min / WEP performance was simply awesome.

Badsight.
04-24-2005, 05:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grendel-B:
Do-335 is the fastest produced piston engined fighter of all time.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
lol

SkyChimp
04-24-2005, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Its all ready dependent on height. The fastest at SL won't be the fastest at 20,000ft etc.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
If not the fastest, then very near it would be the P-51H - 487 mph. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Supermarin Spitful (Spitfire with a laminar flow wing) did 494mph but it was never put into full scale production. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was only one Spiteful that managed that speed, the F XVI. Only one was built.

The fastest production Spiteful was the F XIV which could do 483 mph. Very few of these were built.

SkyChimp
04-24-2005, 06:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:
Sea Fury was good for 485 mph

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a production plane. Only one (of two) did that, a Sabre VII powered Fury (LA610). The 3rd and 4th F2 Furies were configured with this engine.

Cajun76
04-24-2005, 09:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grendel-B:
Do-335 is the fastest produced piston engined fighter of all time. Double engines in one fuselage, flying 350+ knots even on one engine - and leaving all other planes behind it on dust, when pusked to full power. Its 5 min / WEP performance was simply awesome. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh, interesting. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I had no idea they were able to produce them so fast. The P-47M had around a 470mph top speed, on one engine. The P-47N could do over 465mph, on one engine also. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif There were also 1,800 produced (N) and they saw extensive service in the last months of the war, both long range escort and close air support.

robban75
04-25-2005, 12:21 AM
The Fw 190D-12 and D-13 were pretty fast also. Reaching 477mph at 9000m with the Jumo 213EB.

Tooz_69GIAP
04-25-2005, 02:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grendel-B:
Do-335 is the fastest produced piston engined fighter of all time. Double engines in one fuselage, flying 350+ knots even on one engine - and leaving all other planes behind it on dust, when pusked to full power. Its 5 min / WEP performance was simply awesome. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, what you have to remember is that the Do-335 was a twin engine, push-pull aircraft. When he says it attains 350+ knots on 1 engine, he means that the second engine is not functioning, and one engine is dragging that huge airframe through the air, and still attaining those sorts of speeds!!

Huh, interesting. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I had no idea they were able to produce them so fast. The P-47M had around a 470mph top speed, on one engine. The P-47N could do over 465mph, on one engine also. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif There were also 1,800 produced (N) and they saw extensive service in the last months of the war, both long range escort and close air support. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cajun76
04-25-2005, 07:59 AM
I realize that the Do-335 has two engines. Max loaded the Do is about 5000lbs heavier, but the P-47N also has "one engine is dragging that huge airframe through the air, and still attaining those sorts of speeds!!"

That's my point, I'd hazard to say with all the problems they had with the rear engine, it wasn't running around very far at 350+ knots on the rear one. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

What always seems to get lost in these discusions, and even this one in particular are the criteria:

1) Fastest production piston fighter between 1939-1948.
2) At least 150 produced. (Which disqualifies the P-47M, btw. 130 examples.)
3) No prototypes or special speedsters.

Using this, several beat out my favorite, the P-47N. However, add "combat" and "WWII" in there and it's at the top of the heap. As for prototypes, the XP-47J stands out as well, hitting 507mph in mid 1943. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

RedNeckerson
04-25-2005, 09:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
As for prototypes, the XP-47J stands out as well, hitting 507mph in mid 1943. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Sorry, but the XP-47J never did 507mph, and certainly never did it in 1943.

Unless it was in a dive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The first engine in the XP-47J self-destructed after 10 hours of flight time.

The XP-47J didn't fly again until March 1944.

On August 5, 1944 Republic claimed 504 mph at 34,450 ft.

This claimed speed however was never repeated in USAAF testing, the fastest achieved by them was actually 493mph. It was felt that the Republic claim was probably innacurate due to faulty instruments.

The XP-47J was an interesting experimantal "hot-rod", but was dropped due to being horribly inefficient, and requiring a 70% re-tooling of the assembly line to reach production status.

The 507mph in 1943 for the XP-47J (or any other year) is just a myth I'm afraid.



As far as the original requirements of topic, they are best filled by the P-51H as SkyChimp already pointed out, but are even better fulfilled with the P-47N as it actually saw combat service.

RedNeckerson
04-25-2005, 09:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
The Fw 190D-12 and D-13 were pretty fast also. Reaching 477mph at 9000m with the Jumo 213EB. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The late D-series Focke-Wulfs, as well as the Ta-152 series were awesome aircraft, but probably the war situation in Germany prevented them from being deployed in large numbers.

I believe in one bombing raid, about 70 new Ta-152s were destroyed at the factory.

This is where it gets ironic for flight simmers like us. Good that Nazi Germany got pounded but from a pure simmer standpoint it would be great to have the late D-12/D-13 Focke-Wulfs as well as the Ta-152C to fly around in http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

skabbe
04-25-2005, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SkyChimp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:
Sea Fury was good for 485 mph

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not a production plane. Only one (of two) did that, a Sabre VII powered Fury (LA610). The 3rd and 4th F2 Furies were configured with this engine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i wonder why they never liked the sabre, but i guess there is more then topspeed

p1ngu666
04-25-2005, 09:45 AM
think oppionin was going against napier. alot of the sabres problems where from illtrained crew. also its a very different engine from a merlin.

Royal navy favoured the radial bristol engine, so it was always going tobe a radial aprently http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

RedNeckerson
04-27-2005, 02:37 PM
Royal navy favoured the radial bristol engine, so it was always going tobe a radial aprently http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif


Good decision (IMO) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

wayno7777
04-27-2005, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by woofiedog:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif That's One Hec of a Beautiful Bird in the photo wayno7777.
Sad to say it not mine. I found a couple others of this plane.