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View Full Version : OT: PC games are on the way out?



crazyivan1970
06-06-2006, 12:20 AM
This weekend at teh airshow Hunter told me that there will be no addon for COD2, instead they are realeasing new COD3, which made me really excited - yea i am big fan. Sooo, i started to look for press-releases or any news at all....and came across this article:

***********************

New Call of Duty skipping PC
Activision CEO reveals that next Call of Duty game won't be for PCs, but rather for next-gen consoles; likely COD spin-off.

By Tim Surette, GameSpot

Posted May 4, 2006 5:27 pm PT

PC gamers have long held onto certain franchises as their own, with popular series like Doom, Quake, and Civilization all originally built with the PC in mind. With the advent of more sophisticated consoles, several PC franchises have made the jump over to the Xbox and PlayStation 2, and more recently the Xbox 360.

One such game that did so with phenomenal commercial success was Activision's Call of Duty 2. The game long held the top slot for best-selling Xbox 360 game and easily outsold any other Xbox 360 launch title. The game enjoyed great success on the PC as well, though the Xbox 360 numbers outshone the PC's as more consoles were fed into the market.

Apparently, Activision was looking at those numbers. In today's postearnings conference call, Activision chairman and CEO Bobby Kotick specifically noted that the next Call of Duty game, due in the company's third quarter of this fiscal year (October 1, 2006 - December 31, 2006), is "not a PC product, it's a console product and it's all next-gen."

All is not lost for the keyboard and mouse crew, however. The game is likely one of the Call of Duty spin-offs and not developed by the franchise's original minds, Infinity Ward. 2005's Call of Duty: Big Red One and 2004's Call of Duty: Finest Hour, both of which received lukewarm reviews, were developed by Treyarch and Spark Interactive, respectively.

More hope comes from news from 2005. According to job listings posted by Infinity Ward just after last year's E3, the company is ramping up its teams for its Call of Duty games as well as a new intellectual property, but applicants should be open to both PC and next-gen console development. Also, Activision expects to release a COD game in its following fiscal year, which keeps in line with a new, full Infinity Ward-developed PC Call of Duty game being released every two years.

Requests for clarification sent to Activision were not returned as of press time.
**********************************************


It`s not like world is going to stop....but sometimes game publishing industry confuses the he@ll out of me...

WTE_Galway
06-06-2006, 01:29 AM
marketing guys and intelligence never really went together

SeaFireLIV
06-06-2006, 04:55 AM
Greed. Capitalism. Money.

Consoles offer less work. Less configurations. Less patches (none). Less options. Consoles games cost way more than PC and don`t depreciate as quickly as PC prices.


It doesn`t surprise me.

When `flight sims` start appearing on consoles that allow you to use a game pad and tells you that it`s realistic with no hope of a say or patching, that`ll be when I hang up gaming for good.

flakwagen
06-06-2006, 05:29 AM
I can't blame them for following the money. Consoles are easier to operate, so the lowest common denominators (a.k.a the majority) in society naturally prefer them over personal computers.

But I find console games to be extremely limiting. As the others say, there is no way to patch a console game, or to customize it in any meaningful way. I have no idea why anyone purchased the console version of DOOM, knowing in advance that they couldn't do what made the game so interesting and long lasting- play custom maps.

Flak

Xiolablu3
06-06-2006, 06:35 AM
NO chance.

The PC is where all the innovation is.

ALL of my favourite games would never have been created for console. (they were only converted after if at all)

Deus Ex, Halflife, Counter Strike, IL2/FB, C&C, MOrrowind, Doom, Neverwinter Nights, Baldurs GAte, hundreds more (but I cant be bothered to look at my collection in the other room http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif), all games with long term lasting appeal, not 'one hour and Im bored' console games...

I havent read the OP fully but I suspect its a game by another develper who IW are paying to develop and will not be anywhere near as good as COD1 or COD2, a bit like MOH Pacific Assault (what a load of poop)

Pure console games like the movie spinoffs and driving games bore me after an hour. PC games keep me riveted for weeks/months/years.

PC games will never die because its the platform all the young developers start on (everyones got a PC) and therefore its where all the creativity is.

joeap
06-06-2006, 06:42 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Greed. Capitalism. Money.

Consoles offer less work. Less configurations. Less patches (none). Less options. Consoles games cost way more than PC and don`t depreciate as quickly as PC prices.


It doesn`t surprise me.

When `flight sims` start appearing on consoles that allow you to use a game pad and tells you that it`s realistic with no hope of a say or patching, that`ll be when I hang up gaming for good.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif That'd be the end for me too...though Xiolablu3 gaves me some hope with his post. I think a certain convergence is happening anyway.

Monty_Thrud
06-06-2006, 06:46 AM
So MOH-Pacific Assault was bad...i meant to ask if anyone had played this and what it was like, the original was brilliant....what a shame.
As for COD2, although i dont enjoy online, i did offline...i do hope this isnt a sign of things to come as i'm not a playstation or xbox type.

Xiolablu3
06-06-2006, 06:57 AM
Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
So MOH-Pacific Assault was bad...i meant to ask if anyone had played this and what it was like, the original was brilliant....what a shame.
As for COD2, although i dont enjoy online, i did offline...i do hope this isnt a sign of things to come as i'm not a playstation or xbox type.

Hi Monty, the original MOH was by Infinity Ward, same developers as COD1 and COD2.

When they pass the buck to another lesser developer , THATS when things go wrong. SOmeone else carries on the franchise purely to make more money and the game is poor.

The game in the original post sounds like one of these. IW are not developing it and will go on to make another successful franchise which someone else can carry on. (hopefully on the PC too)

People have been sounding the death of PCs as games platforms for years, but it never happens. Purely becasue its where all the great innovation happens. YOung developers are doing it purely to create a 'great game' which they enjoy playing and not for the money. Its one of the reasons IL2/FB is so great, becasue the developer has a passion for the game he is creating. Most console games are purely created to make money and impress with flashy graphics, which can only last so long. And once the graphics no longer impress, there is nothing left.

There have been console only MOH and COD spinoff games before. This is nothing new.

carguy_
06-06-2006, 07:26 AM
I see one more forum PCvsConsoles battle going on again.Let it begin!


What pisses me off is that those nincumpoops take away more and more FPP games from PC crowd even though the cursor&mouse system was and is originally a PC concept!That`s an assault on PC autonomy!

As SeaFire says they will certainly try to switch all the gaming into consoles just because it`s easier and cheaper for them.You CAN`T make a good sim on a console!Next in line stand racing sims,RTS and RPGs.

Because those idiots are greedy I`m gonna need a laptop for PC stuff and a console for gaming soon because nowadays PC existance as we know it is endangered.That`s beyond my budget.


Finally,I don`t want to belong to a crowd of mind-limited ******s with gamepads. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

sukebeboy
06-06-2006, 07:26 AM
Not that I really care as I think the Call of Duty games are the most serverly overrated turds ever foisted onto the market, but I don't think you need to worry too much.

Dig a little deeper into the story and you'll find that the COD3 agme (which doesn't have an official title yet) is not being designed by the team that made the original COD games for the PC. It's being done by the same group that released the console only versions of previous Call of Duty titles such as Big Red one and Finest Hour.

Console only versions of the Call of Duty series are nothing new and nothing to stress over.

It is true that the emphasis major publishing houses in N America are placing on the PC is greatly diminshed, but the European development houses (which tend to produce deeper, more challenging games) all say the PC is going strong and will continue to be their primary focus.

I also think that the growing popularity and acceptance of digital distribution (BoontyBox notwithstanding) means we'll see a rebirth of the small, independent developer. Should mean a boom in great niche market titles as the devs no longer have to worry about profit sharing with publishers and retail chains.

LEBillfish
06-06-2006, 07:27 AM
Well.....that's a silly projection from the gaming companies.....SOunds more like an advertising ploy.......Because;

PC's are essentially being integrated into everything....In fact, though possible now just not cost effective the PC can work as the central hub for virtually every aspect of a home or business.....

Television
Radio
Telephone
Fax
Electrical circut control (lights, outlets and all appliances)
Refrigerator control and monitoring
Furnace and Water Heater control and monitoring
Water system control and monitoring
Security System
Etc.

What amazes me is being that a console is pretty much a simplified PC, why games aren't written for both (as it really boils down to individual console/game manufacturers want you to just buy their products)....So grappling/struggling to keep their share of the market.....

Consoles will be a thing of the past, the PC working as a central control hub the future.....So the above propaganda by the Game/Console manufacturers.......They will either have to make their games for PC, or die.......

96th_Nightshifter
06-06-2006, 07:39 AM
I honestly think that the console as we know it will eventually die out - to explain, the consoles will eventually have the option to upgrade components and in a sense they will become PC's if you know what I mean. Consoles now have hardrives, online play, and can download levels etc. once they start getting bundled with keyboards, a mouse etc. and components are available to buy then they will become technically a hybrid PC.
It's not all together far fetched, all they need to do is have the same options as pc games i.e. graphics settings and bingo you have all these different consoles with different specs that are able to link up together to play games online and since the companies will make more money by offering upgrades to the consoles instead of making a new one every couple of years I see no reason why they wouldn't be thinking about these kind of options.
In fact the bonus of this hybrid would be that all games would be made to work on the standard out of the box console so hence everyone that owned the console could play any game unlike the minimum spec requirements we have on PC's - the guys with upgrades could, like now on PC's just have better graphics.

Actual gaming in the future will be the job of a Console/PC Hybrid and all other tasks will be PC based IMHO.

Console/PC Hybrid is the future whether we like it or not. be sure.

Capt._Tenneal
06-06-2006, 07:45 AM
Funny you should mention this article, crazyivan. I have the same thoughts as the thread title, but we have seen this closer to home before.

Remember UBI and Ghost Recon ? After leaving PC fans hanging for so long hoping on a GR 2, UBI finally announced that there will be no GR 2 on the PC, after it had been out in the consoles for some time. Then they promised, " the PC will have GR 3 ", and we're still waiting for definite news (I'm not holding my breath). Now, it's COD. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Once the really big sellers like SIMS or World of Warcraft go to consoles exclusively, that's it. There was talk of WoW going to the 360 awhile back.

Xiolablu3
06-06-2006, 09:32 AM
Originally posted by carguy_:



Finally,I don`t want to belong to a crowd of mind-limited ******s with gamepads. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


On the gohost Recon subject, isnt GRAW aka GR3? That is out now for PC and it looks well cool.

WildApes
06-06-2006, 09:42 AM
I hear this argument all the time.

my thoughts are that as larger devs go where the money is smaller ones will come and take their place. If a game is going to be developed with consoles in mind then there is a great chance the game wouldn't be so great in the first place (not always true, but thats the case usually IMO)


I do however feel PC gaming has gotten much more esoteric. I have a fairly high end pc right now (dual core opterons, 7800GTX 512's in SLI, 2 gigs pc4000 ram etc) and really don't think I will upgrade in less than two or so years if at all.

That is most likely because I am getting older (24 now) and feel like I'm wasting time and doing something unhealthy when I play a game longer than an hour straight.

WWSensei
06-06-2006, 11:19 AM
Console games are the wave of the future. Once they allow USB keyboards and devices (and there isn't much preventing it) it will be difficult. Check your local game stores...what used to be 3/4s PC games are usually relagated to one shelf.

Console games are immensely cheaper to produce. Someone listed Deus Ex, Halflife... etc about long term appeal. Deus Ex and Halflife 2 were originaly coded for the console and ported to the PC. Ditto for Oblivion (which is moddable on the 360).

Now that consoles have harddrives they will also be moddable.

If a game keeps you riveted or bores you it has little to do with the hardware it's running on. For every PC game that kept me riveted on a PC I also had a few dozen games that bored me to tears. The fact it ran on a PC was irrelevent.

Sure, console games tend to be a little more expensive than PC games...but then again a console is bought for less than $500...what did you pay for your PC and extra hardware (joystick etc)?

Economically, the demand for console games far outstrips the PC market. There will always be PC games...but I'm betting they will be ports from a console...like Oblivion...which, btw, runs great on a 360.

When they come out with a console that can handle the additional hardware like keyboards, joysticks, rudder pedals and my favorite flight sim is running on it I really don't give a rat's behind what the hardware is.

Xiolablu3
06-06-2006, 11:33 AM
YOu are wrong about Dues Ex being made for consoles, maybe you are thinking of the **** sequel? I wouldnt be surprised if that was made on consoles, it sucked.

Halflife 2 is an offshoot of the original Halflife which was PC only and ported to console.

I disagree with you immensly, consoles are becoming more and more like PCs. The Xbox is basically a PC caged in a box, unupgradable and with no keyboard.

Console games have far less lasting appeal and not the depth of PC games. If you disagree then fair enough but COunter Strike, Deus Ex (the origianl) Command and COnquer, Far Cry type games, half life 1 would never have been invented for the console, its the PC which fuels such creativity.

The real groundbreaking games are on PC. Name one groundbreaking game released on the Xbox or PS2. They are all just rehashes of beat em up or driving games with better graphics than the last ones. The games for consoles feel like 'toys' with far less lasting appeal than PC only games (which may be ported to console afterwards).

In general,I really dont like console games at all. My friends have consoles and I watch them playing they latest 'driving game' or 'beat em up' and have no desire to play at all. It doesnt matter what hardware is running the game, but the fact is that almost ALL console games are upfates of old game styles with better graphics. PC games show real innovation and its where everything starts and the new styles emerge.

CAn you tell me one new style of game like RTS, RPG, Mulitplayer Shooter, FPS,MMORPG, Turn based strategy, Adventure, Driving, or such which has first emerged on consoles?

WildApes
06-06-2006, 12:27 PM
Xiolablu has got it IMO

The day PC gaming dies is when technology can no longer progress. It's really that simple.

Maybe large dev companies will stop producing games for PC in such abundance but PC gaming will never die.

Smaller dev studios etc will replace them. The market is niche for sure but there is still money to be made.

WWSensei
06-06-2006, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
YOu are wrong about Dues Ex being made for consoles, maybe you are thinking of the **** sequel? I wouldnt be surprised if that was made on consoles, it sucked.

Both were--the program manager for the first version is a friend of mine. True the sequel sucked, but not because it was done for a console but because it was a piss poor story.


Halflife 2 is an offshoot of the original Halflife which was PC only and ported to console.

That just proves my point. Half Life 2, which btw, is far more than an offshoot of Half Life--that's like saying IL2 is an offshoot of the Red Baron arcade game--was developed for the console first and ported to the PC. That's what they chose to do as a development process. That isn't unique it is how the software gaming industry is moving.


I disagree with you immensly, consoles are becoming more and more like PCs. The Xbox is basically a PC caged in a box, unupgradable and with no keyboard.

I don't think I said anything to the contrary about it being a PC in a box. As for upgradability I think that to be an overblown attribute to a PC. True, you can upgrade memory and such, but truly significant upgrades usually involve new motherboards which in turn require new CPUs, memory etc.


Console games have far less lasting appeal and not the depth of PC games.

I agree there are lots of console games with little lasting appeal. There are also titles with lots of appeal. Are you honestly going to say there aren't useless PC games? Whether a game is long lasting or not has to do with the game--not the hardware. Few PC games last more than a year or two. Hardly any come close to what Final Fantasy VII experienced in longevity. It's the game, not the hardware that makes the difference.


If you disagree then fair enough but COunter Strike, Deus Ex (the origianl) Command and COnquer, Far Cry type games, half life 1 would never have been invented for the console, its the PC which fuels such creativity.

Well, I already know you are wrong about Deus Ex, but I'll give you the others. However, none of those titles other than Deus Ex and the original Half Life interested me more than than an hour or two either.


The real groundbreaking games are on PC. Name one groundbreaking game released on the Xbox or PS2.

Final Fantasy VII is considered to be one of the industry leading games of all time in story, graphics (for its day) and success (it sold more copies on the PS2 than all Ubi's PC titles combined in the last 3 years).


They are all just rehashes of beat em up or driving games with better graphics than the last ones. The games for consoles feel like 'toys' with far less lasting appeal than PC only games (which may be ported to console afterwards).

LOL. And what are CS, COD, FarCry, Doom Half Life etc but rehashed FPS shooters? Diablo, Diablo2, all the Warcraft titles, CnC just more rehashes of the RTS-gather-resources-build-and-swarm-the-enemy rehashes. **** software is developed on both platforms. Pretending that just because it was on the PC made it better is just burying your head in the sand. Go ahead and bury it--won't make a differnce when reality hits.


In general,I really dont like console games at all. My friends have consoles and I watch them playing they latest 'driving game' or 'beat em up' and have no desire to play at all.

I hate driving games too. I'm not going to suddenly like them because they are written for the PC.


It doesnt matter what hardware is running the game, but the fact is that almost ALL console games are upfates of old game styles with better graphics. PC games show real innovation and its where everything starts and the new styles emerge.

Thank you for finally seeing my point that the hardware doesn't matter, it's the games. I disagree that PC games are any real innovation. You get the occasional eye candy but the rest are all the same.


CAn you tell me one new style of game like RTS, RPG, Mulitplayer Shooter, FPS,MMORPG, Turn based strategy, Adventure, Driving, or such which has first emerged on consoles?

Thanks for listing what I was going to mention. Can you tell me one PC title that hasn't been Yet Another Rehash of those same tired themes you listed? Name a first or third person PC game that was Just Another Scripted Level snore fest.

Better yet, just wander down to the local Fry's, CompUSA, Gamestop, EB or any other computer game store and look around at the ratio of console games to PC games. That's reality. PC games won't go away, but they aren't going to be the center of innovation they once may have been. They will have their niche...as Oleg has carved for himself, but the whole flight sim market doesn't even compare to the bigger market.

2005 Console game sales ~ 9.9 billion. Down about 1% from 2004.
2005 PC Game sales ~ $953 million, down 14% from 2004.

This is based on the latest NPD Group for sales through December of 2005. Top 10 selling titles for 2005 were all console. 2004 Ditto. Not until 2003 does PC games dominate. In total market, market share, sales, title popularity, gross revenue, net revenue and trends consoles far outstrip PCs. That's the trend--like it or not.

PC game sales trending down over 10 times the rate of consoles. The 2005 numbers end in Dec so don't include a lot of 360 sales numbers. And I say 360 because Sony hasn't released their PS3 and Nintendo is only just now releasing Wii. The one platform to actually grow sales significantly in 2005 was the PSP.

Snootles
06-06-2006, 02:16 PM
My thought? I don't hate console gaming at all (just Microsoft's systems), but the truth is that consoles were made for much simpler games. Thus the real complex and involved PC games, like flight simulators, must be "truncated" and stripped down if they are to be console-ported. Which really can make promising PC games suffer if companies decide they want something easily ported.

Take "Deus Ex: Invisible War". All the really complex stuff that made the game engaging for me: the inventory system, the skills and experience allocation, the keypads and computer interfacing- were all taken out, leaving a shell of the original's gameplay. Whereas "Thief: Deadly Shadows" turned out a lot better, because the Thief series' gameplay and mode of interaction is way simpler and more intuitive.

What really pisses me off is when companies decide one (almost always the console) is "more important" than the other, so that they neglect the other platformers (almost always PC gamers) and throw them quickie "leftovers" from the other platform.

Games can (and should be) ported between platforms, but ONLY if the game's positive and essential qualities do not have to be compromised, and ONLY if companies are willing to do a good, thorough and thoughtful job porting, and not throw an ill-conceived product onto "The Other Gamers".

Ernst_Rohr
06-06-2006, 03:13 PM
Consoles are NOT going to kill the PC. For several reasons.

First off;
#1- Consoles are becoming more and more "stipped" PC's. Looked at the video subsystems of consoles lately? Looked at the processors? They are budget end PC components.

2#- High end graphic titles will still go PC. Due to the rapid evolution of GPU's, the high end market will only sustain in the console arena for six months. At that point, the newer titles are already looking at the next GPU.

3#- Horesepower. PC's have it, consoles dont. Because consoles are a static product, they cannot compete with the PC for ambitious titles. You are never going to see heavy duty number and graphic crunching titles on the console like you will the PC. PC owners can upgrade for a new title, console owners cant.

4#- PCs are not as incredibly complex as the console folks make it out to be. First off there are only 2 CPUs for the pc, only 2 major graphic chips for the gaming arena. 2, not twenty. There are only 3 major motherboard chipsets in use right now. With most peripherials going to USB as a standard, that eliminates even more complexity.

5#- Ambitious titles will program for the PC, not the console, for the above reasons. And face it, for a lot of developers, the "wow" factor drives a lot of sales. HL2, Far Cry, Doom3, ect all came out for the PC first, because the PC had the horsepower.

6#- Finally, consoles are static and halve a VERY long lifecycle compared to PC's. The PS2 came out in 2000. Thats SIX years old! A six year old PC is an antique! The average console lifespan is projected to be 3 to 5 years, the average PC lifecyle is 18 months.

7#- Originality. PC titles have the advantage of being a relatively open market. There a lot of innovative PC develpment houses that get by on small budgets and release in digital format. Thats never going to happen with consoles. Consoles tend to have a couple of big budget "blockbusters" and much like Hollywood, a whole truckload of "me too" titles derived from something else that sold well. Consoles take big companies with big budgets and huge distribution markets. And as we have seen for quite some time, big doesnt neccessarily mean better.

#8 Costs- PC titles have actually gotten MORE price competative than console titles. Average PC game prices have stayed pretty current with $39.95 and $49.95 as the standard price, and only on really hot titles to you see the price edge up slightly more. In turn, most PC buyers expect something for expensive titles, like "collectors edition" or something similar. Console titles on the other hand, have seen steadily climbing prices except on budget titles. As a result, there is a huge secondary market in used console titles.

Bearcat99
06-06-2006, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
PC's are essentially being integrated into everything....In fact, though possible now just not cost effective the PC can work as the central hub for virtually every aspect of a home or business.....

Television
Radio
Telephone
Fax
Electrical circut control (lights, outlets and all appliances)
Refrigerator control and monitoring
Furnace and Water Heater control and monitoring
Water system control and monitoring
Security System
Etc.
Consoles will be a thing of the past, the PC working as a central control hub the future.....So the above propaganda by the Game/Console manufacturers.......They will either have to make their games for PC, or die.......

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

airjunkie
06-06-2006, 06:35 PM
Have you been to a computer store. The space provided pc games is getting down to a small rack.
It is already hard to get games that are made in europe (Walmart is the only place to get il2 pf).
I hope a store here will have a copy of the new il2 game. (Dvd) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

WWSensei
06-06-2006, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Ernst_Rohr:
Consoles are NOT going to kill the PC. For several reasons.

First off;
#1- Consoles are becoming more and more "stipped" PC's. Looked at the video subsystems of consoles lately? Looked at the processors? They are budget end PC components.

True, but irrelevent in that consoles only do games and aren't bogged down by heavy OS's. Linux can show what even 6 year old hardware can do against Windows.


#- High end graphic titles will still go PC. Due to the rapid evolution of GPU's, the high end market will only sustain in the console arena for six months. At that point, the newer titles are already looking at the next GPU.

Possibly, but it's not trending that way. HL2 was high end graphic for its day and it went console first (development wise then ported to PC). Also, you might want to check the specs on a 360 and the upcoming PS3...


3#- Horesepower. PC's have it, consoles dont. Because consoles are a static product, they cannot compete with the PC for ambitious titles. You are never going to see heavy duty number and graphic crunching titles on the console like you will the PC. PC owners can upgrade for a new title, console owners cant.

Again, you might want to check the specs on the consoles coming out this year. Most of their specs exceed more than 75% of the PCs out there. We flight simmers tend to be toward the top end because of our hobby. We aren't representative of the average gamer PC owner.

http://beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/index.php?p=02

The 360 has a 3.2GHz Xenon IBM processor with 3 cores (PCs just now getting 2 cores),a 500MHz Custom ATI Grpahics chip and 512MB of DDR3RAM. Betting a lot of gamers here don't have PC rigs with that horsepower. In talking with some of my ATI friends they LOVED developing the new chipset for the XBox because the felt freed from the limiting architecture of the PC. In fact, the ATI chipset supports Unified Shader which sort of like Shader Model 3.0 plus....with it incorporating some aspects of graphics PC users won't see until DX10 comes out in Vista--innovation isn't limited to the PC.


4#- PCs are not as incredibly complex as the console folks make it out to be. First off there are only 2 CPUs for the pc, only 2 major graphic chips for the gaming arena. 2, not twenty. There are only 3 major motherboard chipsets in use right now. With most peripherials going to USB as a standard, that eliminates even more complexity.

Consoles only have one CPU primarily. The Xenon in the 360 is a triple core CPU that exceeds single core chips in perfomance and even some of the dual cores. Sony's Cell chip is also as advanced as anything you'll see in the average PC for a couple of years to come. The graphics in the 360 and PS3 is custom made by ATI capable of rendering Full Screen AA at 1280x720 HDTV output with no drop in frames.


5#- Ambitious titles will program for the PC, not the console, for the above reasons. And face it, for a lot of developers, the "wow" factor drives a lot of sales. HL2, Far Cry, Doom3, ect all came out for the PC first, because the PC had the horsepower.

Bang for buck performance of the consoles outstrips that of comparable PCs. Been that way since the 360 and will continue.


6#- Finally, consoles are static and halve a VERY long lifecycle compared to PC's. The PS2 came out in 2000. Thats SIX years old! A six year old PC is an antique! The average console lifespan is projected to be 3 to 5 years, the average PC lifecyle is 18 months.

For a game developer your point is a minus for the PC not a plus. A steady platform means I don't have to re-invest in development tools as often. Some of those tools run into the 6 digit range of expense. Also, not everyone goes out and buys the latest PC hardware. Check with your neighbors and you'd be surprised how many of them run 6 year PCs. How many simmers still run Win98SE? Remember, you are talking to gaming companies. "Guaranteed Obsolesence in 18 months requireing new tooling" is NOT a selling point to someone looking to invest in game development.


7#- Originality. PC titles have the advantage of being a relatively open market. There a lot of innovative PC develpment houses that get by on small budgets and release in digital format.

You might want to check the facts and figures. For a US developer (numbers differ in countries but ratio is about the same) it will run you about 1-1.5 million in 12 months development to get a title out the door on a PC. It's about 600K-750K for a console. I'm not saying there won't be any PC innovation--just saying that isn't the future trend.


Thats never going to happen with consoles. Consoles tend to have a couple of big budget "blockbusters" and much like Hollywood, a whole truckload of "me too" titles derived from something else that sold well.

Sorry, but the PC world is exactly the same in that respect--a couple of hit titles, many clones. That is a trend in the gaming industry period--not hardware specific.


Consoles take big companies with big budgets and huge distribution markets. And as we have seen for quite some time, big doesnt neccessarily mean better.

For the hardware production yes, but a majority of the console titles are not developed by Microsoft and Sony. They are done by Mom and Pop development shops or small companies. The appeal to small companies are the steady platforms (eliminates a huge QA costs of dealing with multiple hardware), lower maintenance and easier entry to market.


#8 Costs- PC titles have actually gotten MORE price competative than console titles. Average PC game prices have stayed pretty current with $39.95 and $49.95 as the standard price, and only on really hot titles to you see the price edge up slightly more. In turn, most PC buyers expect something for expensive titles, like "collectors edition" or something similar. Console titles on the other hand, have seen steadily climbing prices except on budget titles. As a result, there is a huge secondary market in used console titles.

Titles I grant you--though both tend to be around $50 these days, but hardware not so much. A good solid PC will run you $1500 (US). Equivalent console ~$400-$500. As you said look to upgrade change that PC every 18 months whereas the console maybe once every 3-5 years.

WWSensei
06-06-2006, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
PC's are essentially being integrated into everything....In fact, though possible now just not cost effective the PC can work as the central hub for virtually every aspect of a home or business.....

Television
Radio
Telephone
Fax
Electrical circut control (lights, outlets and all appliances)
Refrigerator control and monitoring
Furnace and Water Heater control and monitoring
Water system control and monitoring
Security System
Etc.
Consoles will be a thing of the past, the PC working as a central control hub the future.....So the above propaganda by the Game/Console manufacturers.......They will either have to make their games for PC, or die.......

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Consoles are stripped down PCS...so are teh appliances in your house I grant you.

I'd say it's more likely your next TV in the future will have built-in gaming capabilities rather than the PC surviving as a major platform. The PC isn't the savior of the gaming market. It's already down to 10% of the gaming market--like it or not.

_VR_ScorpionWorm
06-06-2006, 07:01 PM
GRRRR, this console C.R.@.P. is really Pi***** me off, those damn things are almost as expensive as PCs are getting and you can't even upgrade them much, ooo, I can put a bigger HD in my console. Who cares, I can upgrade all my components on my PC. Last system I owned was a PS2 and GameCube.

I'll choose my rig over any console any day, there are more options... and yes I can pick it up and go on a whim just like a console if I needed to.

WTE_Galway
06-06-2006, 07:06 PM
consoles keep the ankle-biters off your PC so you can play real games like IL2

wayno7777
06-06-2006, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
consoles keep the ankle-biters off your PC so you can play real games like IL2
BINGO! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Targ
06-06-2006, 08:12 PM
Something that no one has touched on is control of the hardware and media.
How many people are downloading rippped copies of the latest greatest console games?
Plus more profit in the console world, Oblivion is a classic example. Xbox live costs money on top of an internent connection. Want to mod it? Hahahaha that is gonna cost you as well.
Thats why I like the pc, more choice and the control is in my hands not others. I do see the console as the dominant platform as that is where the most money is.
Just one thought though, the pc will still be king as most console owners want what we have. Read the Oblivion boards and you will see this comment often. The many mods and free content that us PC gamers take for granted is much desired by the console crowd to the point that people are upgrading there computers and buying the pc version of oblivion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Viper2005_
06-06-2006, 10:04 PM
PC games will never die as long as people have PCs.

Flightsims will never die as long as people dream of flight.

Relax...

fordfan25
06-06-2006, 10:07 PM
if thay would start makeing PC gameing affordble people would start playing them. its like when i was argueing with a sertein someone awhile back. The game makers keep makeing PC gamers buy new hardwear at BS price's VS the time frame that the hardwear is useful ect ect. sure it keep's out the "riff raff" as it has been said but it also keeps out ALOT of paying customers. less customers means less profit for game makers thus less games, plus with all this SLI,duel corecpu,and physics chip crude its just going to get worse and right now all the rich guys dont care because thay can afford it but when the game makers stop makeing games "as your seeing now" thay will be whining like a 109 pilot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. and yes the console gameing is getting more costly. 400 for a 360 is not to horrible seeing as 20 years ago a NES was 200$ but considering the amount of HW failures that console has been haveing its a bit steep. the PS3 is even worse at what is it 600$or 700$, that is BS. and with sony's track record for shoddy workmen ship on the PS line you can figure you have a 80% chance of haveing to rebuy the console after it breaks in 3 years lol. ninty is takeing a more mass market friendly path with the Wii. plus add to the fact that now that hard drives are on the console's, were seeing console games that are needing to be patched because of lazy dev's/publishers who know thay can rush out a game and fix it later *coughOblivioncough*.

fordfan25
06-06-2006, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
PC games will never die as long as people have PCs.

Flightsims will never die as long as people dream of flight.

Relax... not sayn PC gameing is dieing but you can own a PC and not use it for gameing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Snootles
06-06-2006, 10:13 PM
So PC games are losing shelf space? The solution is here- the internet. Dial-up users may hate this idea, but it is what might keep PC gaming from being crushed under the advance of the "Big Budget Game". When you are free from the costs of manufacturing millions of CDs and boxes and getting shelf space in thousands or even millions of stores, you can devote a lot more to making the GAME. Of course downloadable content poses piracy issues, but then again, so have games on CD.

LStarosta
06-06-2006, 10:31 PM
BOONTYBOX!

It's the solution, not the problem.

Snootles
06-06-2006, 10:33 PM
Peh, Boonty is hardly the only way to get it done.

tagTaken2
06-06-2006, 11:50 PM
Apparently the next playstation is going to support keyboard/mouse (natively). Which means that I will finally consider buying a console.

It's beginning to look like a more attractive option now that we have things like Steam, Boontybox and Starforce, that remove the control option (or at least the illusion) from your hands. The two games I've looked at purchasing in the last year both turned out to contain starforce (ubersoldier [yay, zombies! and Nazis!] and Stalin's Subway), so fughedaboudit.

Badsight.
06-07-2006, 01:30 AM
consoles need proper Kb & Mouse support

without it they will remain a joke for FPS

the reasons behind making the consumer be stuck with the control pad are Ghey beyond belief

csThor
06-07-2006, 02:16 AM
I wouldn't get a console even if someone paid me for that. I've seen a fair selection of console games a friend of my younger brother owns. How did SimHQ put it so eloquently?

"Amazed by the high resolution displayed by such a small machine? We were amazed by the quick scan of most of the titles, revealing they were the same cr@p we'd seen since the consoles first vaulted themselves to the forefront of gaming. Only now, it's high-resolution cr@p." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

panther3485
06-07-2006, 04:22 AM
Hi guys!

If you just want to play games, then consoles have a lot of things going for them that will continue to ensure their popularity and market dominance.

That doesn't mean PC gaming will die - far from it. To begin with, Game/Sims like FB/AEP and F4AP, with that level of detail and sophistication, still are not viable for consoles and might never be. This may only be a small slice of the gaming market but it's a very vibrant one that I believe will always have its core of adherents.

The PC itself has a lot going for it as well, not least of which is the sheer multitude of tasks it can perform besides gaming. And, relative to income and other living costs, PC's have become steadily cheaper (for most consumers) over recent years.

I think there will continue to be a place for both platform types, in gaming, for a long time yet but I think I can also see other changes in the wings that will blur some of our present distinctions and ideas. The next decade will be very interesting indeed.


Best regards to all,
panther3485

Snootles
06-07-2006, 06:12 AM
My hope for the future (and it might be coming true) is that the twain shall meet. Consoles are becoming more involved and complex these days, with a hard drive, OS, (rudimentary) internet connection, and all sorts of extra functionality as CD or DVD players. One can imagine a future in which the distinction between a personal computer and gaming console doesn't mean anything. Hopefully consoles would become more like PC's (gaining functionality, versatility, and complexity), rather than PC's becoming more like consoles (losing functionality, expandability, and complexity).

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-07-2006, 06:59 AM
I wouldn't have any problem eventually getting a console (for me anyway as my kids have them all) in the event that adequate controllers (read CH joysticks and keyboards!), enough processing power etc, are integrated into them.

I agree with Badsight. control pads are Ghey for anything other than sports games.


TB

Doug_Thompson
06-07-2006, 08:09 AM
The PS3 will cost $600.

At this rate, you might as well get a PC by the time the PS4 comes out.

=========

On a related note, the PS3 has become a Trojan horse in the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD fight. If I was a console fan, I would not be happy that Sony was adding $100 or more to the PS3's price because they saw it as a way to gain ground for the Blu-Ray format.

And if I was Sony, I'd do the same thing they are.

WWSensei
06-07-2006, 08:12 AM
Originally posted by Snootles:
My hope for the future (and it might be coming true) is that the twain shall meet.

This is far more the likely scenario. I can easily forsee a TV of the future with game capability built in.

People can trash consoles all they want and desperately hang on to the idea that PC gaming will always rule, but the simple fact is that from 2000-2003 PC gaming was a 10 billion dollar business and consoles were 1 billion.

It has completely reversed since then with consoles either holding steady or gaining while PC gaming has dropped >10%. PC gaming is now a niche in comparison.

People can complain all they want but those are the cold, hard facts.

WWSensei
06-07-2006, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:
The PS3 will cost $600.

At this rate, you might as well get a PC by the time the PS4 comes out.

=========


And what is the price of the latest top of the line video card from Nvidia or ATI? What does an SLI 7800 or 7900 set cost? $600 can buy a PC but not one that comes anywhere near the performance factor of the latest consoles. If people are basing their opinions of consoles on older sets like the original XBox or PS/2 you should really look into what the latest consoles are coming with.

Xiolablu3
06-07-2006, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by WWSensei:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Snootles:
My hope for the future (and it might be coming true) is that the twain shall meet.

This is far more the likely scenario. I can easily forsee a TV of the future with game capability built in.

People can trash consoles all they want and desperately hang on to the idea that PC gaming will always rule, but the simple fact is that from 2000-2003 PC gaming was a 10 billion dollar business and consoles were 1 billion.

It has completely reversed since then with consoles either holding steady or gaining while PC gaming has dropped >10%. PC gaming is now a niche in comparison.

People can complain all they want but those are the cold, hard facts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Noone is complaining or hanging on to anything, I am just saying that almost all Console games are **** with no depth at all.

I like to be at the cutting edge of gaming, and thats the PC. All the new ideas begin there, and I suspect they always will.

Hardly anyone can afford a PS3 developers console for 1200, but everyone has access to a PC. Thats why all the ground breaking stuff comes out on PC.

I repeat that console games are so much more like 'toys'.

About new Ps3 titles, I can guess them already - Tekken 6, Gran Turismo 5, Wipeout 6, Grand Theft Auto 4.

(GTA originated on PC only too)

The PC will continue making great new greoundbreaking games, while the consoles pull in the developers who are more after money than making a great game. I used to have consoles (I had a Megadrive and PS1) but I was board with nearly all the games after an hour or two. Where is the depth?

Emulation, Shareware, Freeware, Applications, Fully Upgradable, Better games, Internet, Multiplayer gaming, ground breaking games and so much more on the PC.

Yes some of these are coming to consoles too (at last) but why bother? I love my PC, no need to get a console too. (I wouldnt want one) Every year theres a new console out there which is oh so more powerful than PCs, but PCs always overtake them in about 6 months.

You can keep you Tekken 7's your Gran Turismo 5 and your Wipeout 24. I would trade them all in for one single ground breaking game like IL2/FB, Dues Ex, Halflife, Morrowind, C&C, Counterstrike, Call OF Duty, Eve Online, World Of Warcraft ...and so on

Lucius_Esox
06-07-2006, 09:10 AM
You might be right about consoles Sensei, it's a big shame though imho.

Consoles have a roughly,, what 4yr cycle. Not exactly versatile is it!

I know games designers build scalability into their s/ware and also predict what pc's will be able to do performance wise when their product comes out, some are more successfull at this than others http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

My point I suppose is that yes s/ware designers know exactly how their stuff is gonna run, and can program accordingly. Good, on the face of it. But won't this lead to a stifling of creativity somehow ?? A slowdown in the technological advancement of PC's occuring because gaming will be taken out of the loop.

It's not just a misconception, consol games are designed for a much much larger market than we have here. The bar aint gonna be raised for us,,,, it's gonna be lowered for the masses m8

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I've got a m8 who is printer, he is also an avid console fan. I sent him the transition pic of the Spitfire cockpit from SOW. Being a printer he knows a bit about pictures and his comment was,,, blimey that's alot of work "JUST FOR A COMPUTER GAME"..

I know, just one person but I fear that mentality greatly.

Anyway I hope the truth of the matter is that consoles will bring more money into "computer" gaming in general, means there will be more cash around, hopefully spare, so some can be spent on some projects that aren't quite so profitable.

Hmmm, yep, let console owners pay for the R&D for us PC owners http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Xiolablu3
06-07-2006, 09:13 AM
WW sensai : - You are totally wrong about Deus Ex, it was made for PC only. You can TELL by the game, its so much deeper than any console game.

It was made by Warren Spector for Ion Storm. PLease read this review, I quote :

'As if that wasn't enough, Deus Ex is pretty as well. The graphics do not suffer from the PC-to-PS conversion'

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/playstation-2-game/deus-ex/419159/


I KNOW it was PC only becasue there were complaints about the PS conversion being 'too much' for the average console owner. (one of my many complaints about 'dumb' console games)


More evidence

Quote : 'The game was released to critical acclaim on PC last year; now, after a canceled Dreamcast version, console gamers will finally get to see what all the fuss is about when Deus Ex is released for PlayStation 2 this winter.'

http://terror.snm-hgkz.ch/mirrors/thegia/sites/www.theg...2/deusex/deusex.html (http://terror.snm-hgkz.ch/mirrors/thegia/sites/www.thegia.com/psx2/deusex/deusex.html)

carguy_
06-07-2006, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
You can keep you Tekken 7's your Gran Turismo 5 and your Wipeout 24. I would trade them all in for one single ground breaking game like IL2/FB, Dues Ex, Halflife, Morrowind, C&C, Counterstrike, Call OF Duty, Eve Online, World Of Warcraft ...and so on

Fallout,Silent Hunter,Destroyer Command,Starcraft,Medieval:Total War,Gothic,Age of Empires,Earth2150 and many more...


Doesn`t campare at all.I have a colleague that buys every latest console along with 10-15 games which he borrows me every July for a month.I`m bored with all of them games after two weeks.

Capt._Tenneal
06-07-2006, 02:08 PM
Here's the latest :

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6152433.html

Our friend UBI is releasing added content for GR Advanced Warfighter for 360 Live. New multiplayer maps and new weapons. Where's the love for the PC version ?

COD 2 just released something similar for 360 Live too, calling it a Game of the Year edition. Where's the GOTY edition for the PC ?

Xiolablu3
06-07-2006, 04:07 PM
Theres loads of free maps and levels for every fps game on the PC plus mods etc.

I played some HL2 mods recently that are as good as Valves maps in quality. PLay MINERVA or SUBSTANCE mods for HL2.

COD2 has hundreds of MP levels and SP levels released for it on the PC,just like every other good FPS.

The-Pizza-Man
06-07-2006, 04:50 PM
Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six are excellent case studies of what happens when developers think that consoles and PCs are the same.

The last good rainbow 6 game was Raven-Shield, that was released ages ago. The most recent release, Lockdown, was a steaming pile of you know what. They removed all the things that PC gamers enjoyed in order to "streamline" the gameplay. There was no pre-mission planning, no multiple teams and the maps were entirely linear. Just like the versions they released on console. To be honest I think a lot of devs seem to be stuck into the mind set that all gamers are ADD freaks. They started off with the consoles and now they are moving that steriotype to the PC...unsuccessfully. You'll also notice that of the more successful games on consoles were originally PC games, such as Rainbow Six 3 (port of Raven Shield), Ghost Recon etc. Furthermore, the most successful made for console games were not the clicking frenzy, button mashing shooting fests but the more complex and interesing games, ie splinter cell, Halo, Grand Turismo, Final Fantasy and so on. I think they are trying to fit the wrong steriotype to gamers in general, but particularly so for PC games.

Badsight.
06-07-2006, 10:59 PM
the latest gen consoles have a decent amount of power

all they need is Kb & Mouse support

the BEST tarmac racing sim ever is coming to the X360 , sans starforce

Targ
06-07-2006, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by Badsight.:
the latest gen consoles have a decent amount of power

all they need is Kb & Mouse support

the BEST tarmac racing sim ever is coming to the X360 , sans starforce

I noticed this as well and it might drive me into a console as I wont buy SF games and GTR2 is going to be on the x-box as well as the pc.

panther3485
06-08-2006, 04:37 AM
Hi there, Pizza Man


Originally posted by The-Pizza-Man:
Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six are excellent case studies of what happens when developers think that consoles and PCs are the same.

The last good rainbow 6 game was Raven-Shield, that was released ages ago. The most recent release, Lockdown, was a steaming pile of you know what. They removed all the things that PC gamers enjoyed in order to "streamline" the gameplay. There was no pre-mission planning, no multiple teams and the maps were entirely linear. Just like the versions they released on console. To be honest I think a lot of devs seem to be stuck into the mind set that all gamers are ADD freaks. They started off with the consoles and now they are moving that steriotype to the PC...unsuccessfully. You'll also notice that of the more successful games on consoles were originally PC games, such as Rainbow Six 3 (port of Raven Shield), Ghost Recon etc. Furthermore, the most successful made for console games were not the clicking frenzy, button mashing shooting fests but the more complex and interesing games, ie splinter cell, Halo, Grand Turismo, Final Fantasy and so on. I think they are trying to fit the wrong steriotype to gamers in general, but particularly so for PC games.


I'm strongly inclined to agree with you here. The PC RavenShield and Ghost Recon (with add-ons) were - in fact are still - my all-time favourite shooters. I have been very disappointed with both the PC successors and Lockdown in particular seems badly castrated to me, while GRAW seems to have lost much of its depth and appeal also (though at this stage, I'm judging from the demo - the full version may not be so bad).

This is far from being my first experience of trying/buying a successor PC game for this and other genres, such as strategy, and being disappointed. There appears to be an increasing mentality for tricked-up graphics and whiz-bang special effects but all too often, it seems to come at the cost of lost depth, moronesque and predictable linear gameplay, reduced attention to detail and less realism (except for the graphics).

Am I the only one that feels this way about it?


Best regards,
panther3485

Doug_Thompson
06-08-2006, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by carguy_:

Fallout,Silent Hunter,Destroyer Command,Starcraft,Medieval:Total War,Gothic,Age of Empires,Earth2150 and many more...


Doesn`t campare at all.

That's my personal bottom line, also.

It's not a matter of PC games being "better." It's more a matter of taste. Console fans could make a good argument, for instance, that Silent Hunter III is boring, and so are the city management aspects of Rome: Total War.

However, I like depth and replayability, more depth and replayability than you get with the average console game.

No console game offers the detail of IL-2.
No console game offers the depth of the Total War series, nor offer anything like what the upcoming sequel to Medieval: Total War will offer.

Deeper games take longer to play and to master. You get more gaming hours per dollar with deeper games. That's one reason, I think, that PC game makers are pushing online gaming so much while Elderscrolls: Oblivion, Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 sales figures clearly show that many gamers prefer to spend hours and hours alone with their few favorite games.

I even acknowledge WWSensei's point that you can't buy a good gaming PC for what you pay for a console. After all, console makers do sell their machines for a loss and make money on the games. My point is that $600 is a chunk of change, that the console's price advantage is not as big as it used to be, and that the trend is that the price difference will continue to narrow.

As I said in the rest of my post, giving console users an affordable machine is clearly not a priority for Sony. One of their major goals appears to be making the Blu-ray format the accepted standard. The PS3 will certainly help, but gamers will pay the price.

The biggest advantage of consoles was, is and will continue to be reliability. You can drop any PS2 game in any working PS2 anywhere and it will work. There are no compatibility glitches, no having to account for different hardware. I still keep old drivers on my Nvida card because some of my games won't run on the latest drivers. It's a pain.