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hawkmeister
02-28-2005, 11:45 AM
Hi Folks,

First let me apologize if this issue has already been raised and answered.

Is there any chance of getting the Hellcat's canopy glass staining/smearing toned down? It's incredibly annoying and seems a bit odd that this is the only plane (I've noticed) so afflicted.

Best regards,

-Bill

JG53Frankyboy
02-28-2005, 12:15 PM
hell, im realy with you, but its a topic JUST 7 topics (as im writing this) below that here !

womenfly
02-28-2005, 12:17 PM
I have flown commercial aircraft with windscreens worse then that.

One can only wonder what a windscreen would look like after a few weeks of combat.

<span class="ev_code_PINK">You guy€s keep asking for realism, well, dirty, stained and scratched canopies is one of them.</span>

hawkmeister
02-28-2005, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
hell, im realy with you, but its a topic JUST 7 topics (as im writing this) below that here ! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


DOH! How did I miss that!?! I scanned the forums before I posted - I swear!


As for the comment about realism - hey, when ALL the planes are like that - sure. But that is most definitely NOT the case. And it seems to be the ONLY "realistic" aspect of plane wear that's modeled.

And none of the airplanes I've flown had giant green slime splotches on their glass.

-Bill

Chuck_Older
02-28-2005, 01:36 PM
has anyone done any research into canopy tinting? I have seen several photos and illustrations that show some aircraft from WWII, including F6Fs, having tinted perspex

I wonder if this 'blotchy' visual is particlular to one aircraft: the F6F, for a reason? Like this is what happened to the perspex after use?


We could always go find out

Longjocks
02-28-2005, 07:19 PM
I don't think the Hellcat is the only plane like that. Probably one of the worst though.

heywooood
02-28-2005, 08:37 PM
there are minor reflection blotches in the wildcat too..sometimes realism gets in the way of a good time.

There are a lot of realistic touches we are much better off without...what if when you were killed in this game, you couldn't run it anymore. And your hard drive wouldnt accept a new copy...and no one could sell you a new one anyways but even if you tried to buy one...like 'Catcher in the Rye' the black helicopters would come and Jean luc Picard would inject you with gravy for the brain, Jerry....huh? you wouldn't really want that wouldja?...

KIMURA
03-01-2005, 04:34 AM
A would rather like to have the correct windshield for the F6F-3. Actually we still fly the F6F-5 windshield on the F6F-3. Although it was pointed to that wrong thing for several times (bug threads)no correction took place.

http://www.rollmodels.net/ngallery/airplanes/hotwash1/F6F-3.jpg

Enofinu
03-01-2005, 06:40 AM
there is nothing wrong on windshield, gather some proof and pictures that shows that there is bug in game about glass in hellcat.

Platypus_1.JaVA
03-01-2005, 06:49 AM
The HEllcat is not the only plane, be sure.

I-153 has it too, they are all porked!!!

Werre_Fsck
03-01-2005, 07:50 AM
Enofinu, here's a proof of hellcat's suckiness I found from the archives.
http://www.iki.fi/werre/autentik1.jpg

Yimmy
03-01-2005, 09:05 AM
I have never noticed anything wrong with the glass in the F6F.

I conclude its all in your mind....

Chuck_Older
03-01-2005, 10:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Werre_Fsck:
Enofinu, here's a proof of hellcat's suckiness I found from the archives.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that maybe that document was forged. If you look closely, it says 'USAF'.

Because, not only was there no USAF until 1947, in 1941, it was the USAAC- United States Army Air Corps. Plus, there are no 'Ministries' in the US Armed Forces

I think somebody fooled you with a fake document. Always be careful when researching on the internet, there's a lot of dis-information out there

LeadSpitter_
03-01-2005, 10:38 AM
wildcat hellcat corsair avenger val ki43 ki61 many others as well.

109 windows got alot better remember the yellow grime filth over snow maps which looks almost as bad as being in a cloud, this is the same opacity of grime on the windows of these ac especially when over snow or looking down at water but looking at the sky its not bad at all like the 109 windows use to be before they got cleaned.

Hopefully they get the windex out.

BlackStar2000
03-01-2005, 10:40 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Werre_Fsck:
Enofinu, here's a proof of hellcat's suckiness I found from the archives.
http://www.iki.fi/werre/autentik1.jpg [/QUOTE
LOL i love it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fehler
03-01-2005, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by womenfly:
I have flown commercial aircraft with windscreens worse then that.

One can only wonder what a windscreen would look like after a few weeks of combat.

<span class="ev_code_PINK">You guy€s keep asking for realism, well, dirty, stained and scratched canopies is one of them.</span> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Although I agree with your assessment, the one thing you had while flying commercial airliners was two (2) eyes. In the game your eye is on a pole with no real feel of distance, thus you cant focus past the dirty glass.

That's why I feel, although it was a novel idea to incorporate this into the game for realism, the end result is not very realistic.

The Hellcat glass should be cleaned up just as all others that suffer extensively from this problem.

Cess-SGTRoc
03-01-2005, 02:20 PM
So many people griping , not real enough , to much like a game. Well now they make it more real.
To much real. I don't like it take it out. lol no wonder Oleg does not come to here very often to chat. Gets nothing but endless complaining.

Chuck_Older
03-01-2005, 03:03 PM
So nobody knows why the canopy is like this in the first place?

Maybe we should find out? There's quite an echo in here...

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-01-2005, 03:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by womenfly:
I have flown commercial aircraft with windscreens worse then that.

One can only wonder what a windscreen would look like after a few weeks of combat.

<span class="ev_code_PINK">You guy€s keep asking for realism, well, dirty, stained and scratched canopies is one of them.</span> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is fine. But it would be nice for all aircraft to suffer from such a handicap. There are some planes that have the dirty canopy effect but none come close to the Hellcats. If you dont believe so then fly the Hellcat on a sunny day.

Besides that, most know that canopy glass was and still is cleaned religiously. Even more so on fighter aircraft. I find it highly unlikely then any pilot in his right mind would fly with such conditions. Especially when your life is at stake. To me, it was added by the modeler to add a more realistic feel. But is it more realistic? I dont think so. Like I said before other planes dont suffer from such a thing.

KIMURA
03-02-2005, 04:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Enofinu:
there is nothing wrong on windshield, gather some proof and pictures that shows that there is bug in game about glass in hellcat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand in case U can't handle that, but the windshield only for the F6F-5 is correct, the F6F-3 is still wrong.
There were diff. strut shapes, better said some struts were removed for the F6F-5.

Here a F6F-5 windshield how it appears in PF for the F6F-5 AND for the F6F-3.
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/RI/F6F-5N_inflight.jpg


Here a windshield on a F6F-3 late like I should be in PF. (note the kind of national marking as date prove - ca.Septembre 1943)
http://www.ethell.com/jethell/ww2color/f6f_640.jpg

That windshield is the one in PF we use for both variants, the F6F-3 late and the F6F-5. That's not correct. I can prove the things I claim. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
http://www.pacific-fighters.com/ss/F6F_02.jpg

IV_JG51_Razor
03-03-2005, 07:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by womenfly:
I have flown commercial aircraft with windscreens worse then that.

One can only wonder what a windscreen would look like after a few weeks of combat.

<span class="ev_code_PINK">You guy€s keep asking for realism, well, dirty, stained and scratched canopies is one of them.</span> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, womanfly, if you are flying commercial aircraft with windshields that are worse than that, maybe you should re-examine your career choice. If I climbed into an aircraft with windows that bad, I'D CLEAN THEM!! If they weren't able to be cleaned, due to deterioration from exposure to sun, or whatever, then I just wouldn't fly it. That would constitute an unairworthy condition as far as I am concerned.

It looks like overspray from zincchromate paint used in the cockpit. Most likely, it is supposed to be the reflection of that paint when the sun is flooding into the cockpit at just the right angle. This is not an uncommon sight in any aircraft with a lot of canopy area. It's no different than you driving down the road with a piece of white paper laying up on the dash. Under certain conditions, it will really obstruct your view out the windshield due to its reflection. The problem with this is, in reality, when you maneuver the cockpit away from the sun, that reflection goes away! If it did that in this game, I'd say that Oleg has done it again! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Unfortunately, it doesn't go away when you roll upside down, putting the canopy in the shadows. So, I can do without that little tidbit of "realism", thankyou very much.

hawkmeister
03-03-2005, 08:16 AM
I get a kick out of all the people calling this a whine. Have they flown a Hellcat even once? I fly everything in the sim. I have no preference for the Hellcat nor any strong love or emotional tie to the plane. This problem is so obvious and so unlike any other plane in the sim there's simply no way it can be defended. The Hellcat glass effect is extreme and either a) needs to be toned down to the levels of the other planes or, b) all the other planes need to be brought to the level of the Hellcat.

To all who are on the other side of this fence - fly the darned thing. Fly it alot and see for yourself. Any objective fair-minded person will see that this needs to be rectified.

-Bill

Chuck_Older
03-03-2005, 02:11 PM
I will ask again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Does anyone even know why this effect is actually on the PF F6F? Does it matter to anyone besides me that there was a reason this was done? Right or wrong, there was a reason it was done that way...do we care to find out, or should we just keep saying 'wrong wrong wrong' without even knowing why? I don't want to talk about what's plainly obvious, etc, etc. I want to know the reason why it's like that, and then I'll decide if it's so wrong.

I can't say I ever flew a F6F outside of a sim, let alone in WWII...I have seen pics, but this canopy is so obviously done that way, it had to have been intentional

hawkmeister
03-03-2005, 03:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I will ask again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Does anyone even know why this effect is actually on the PF F6F? Does it matter to anyone besides me that there was a reason this was done? Right or wrong, there was a reason it was done that way...do we care to find out, or should we just keep saying 'wrong wrong wrong' without even knowing why? I don't want to talk about what's plainly obvious, etc, etc. I want to know the reason why it's like that, and then I'll decide if it's so wrong.

I can't say I ever flew a F6F outside of a sim, let alone in WWII...I have seen pics, but this canopy is so obviously done that way, it had to have been intentional <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What reason could they have had? This is obviously an artistic attempt at rendering oil or grease splotches on the glass. So what was the source of the oil? Was the engine throwing oil? The cowl flap hydraulics throwing oil? The prop throwing oil?

The early birdcage Corsairs had a problem with the hydraulic cowl flap actuators throwing oil back onto the windscreen - that's why the top two flaps were disconnected and then removed from the airplane's construction. The Hellcat had no such problem - it's cowl flaps are only on the sides. Even if the engine threw oil, it had no path to the windscreen or canopy. And if the prop hub threw oil, it would have the same path to follow as engine oil.

The effect on the PF Hellcat is an obvious attempt at some sort of artistic rendering that cannot be supported by the design considerations of the airplane. It has no place in this sim unless all the planes were to get the same ludicrous treatment. I don't hear anyone saying "put it on my plane, please!". As it is it only affects this one airplane to the extent that it seriously hinders it's usefulness in combat. Considering Grummans design and manufacturing reputation in general, and the Hellcats reputation in particular, this treatment is most unjustifiable.

-Bill

tolwyn.com
03-03-2005, 03:58 PM
You guys really really really really need to learn how to use the SEARCH function on this board.

hawkmeister
03-03-2005, 04:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tolwyn.com:
You guys really really really really need to learn how to use the SEARCH function on this board. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Enlighten us, please. I'd love to hear the reason they gave for doing it.

Philipscdrw
03-04-2005, 06:49 AM
Right...

IMO, for BoB, regarding canopys:

a)The same standards should be applied to all aircraft

b)Devs should spend some time sitting (ideally, flying!) aircraft with similar canopy arrangements, (ideally, without cleaning the canopy first) and get a feel for what looking out of a marginally dirty aircraft canopy is like.

I was taking photos from a glider the other weekend. When I looked at the photos on the PC, I was suprised at the amount of dirt on the canopy (it looked like dirty raindrops) - I was completely oblivious to the dirt when in the aircraft, because I was never looking at the canopy, but past it, looking for the ground, horizon, other aircraft, windsock, etc.

Also, the binocular effect of having two eyes means that if there is a vertical or small obstruction, like a canopy frame or a speck of dirt, one eye will see past it and the brain superimposes the view of the background, over the obstruction. To understand what I mean, hold up one finger vertically about halfway between your face and the screen (my flatmates are looking at me funny now). You can see the entire screen even though your finger is in the way.

Chuck_Older
03-04-2005, 03:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hawkmeister:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I will ask again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Does anyone even know why this effect is actually on the PF F6F? Does it matter to anyone besides me that there was a reason this was done? Right or wrong, there was a reason it was done that way...do we care to find out, or should we just keep saying 'wrong wrong wrong' without even knowing why? I don't want to talk about what's plainly obvious, etc, etc. I want to know the reason why it's like that, and then I'll decide if it's so wrong.

I can't say I ever flew a F6F outside of a sim, let alone in WWII...I have seen pics, but this canopy is so obviously done that way, it had to have been intentional <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What reason could they have had? This is obviously an artistic attempt at rendering oil or grease splotches on the glass. So what was the source of the oil? Was the engine throwing oil? The cowl flap hydraulics throwing oil? The prop throwing oil?



-Bill <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to say that this is your opinion

Chuck_Older
03-04-2005, 03:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tolwyn.com:
You guys really really really really need to learn how to use the SEARCH function on this board. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You really really really really really really need to tell me if the Search function even works on this board http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif It didn't yesterday

VW-IceFire
03-04-2005, 03:51 PM
I think its a mistake. The P-51, Bf-110, and most of the other new aircraft have the same feature applied to them. Except its done tastefully and most people don't even notice it unless you're looking for it.

Thats how it should be!

hawkmeister
03-04-2005, 03:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hawkmeister:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I will ask again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Does anyone even know why this effect is actually on the PF F6F? Does it matter to anyone besides me that there was a reason this was done? Right or wrong, there was a reason it was done that way...do we care to find out, or should we just keep saying 'wrong wrong wrong' without even knowing why? I don't want to talk about what's plainly obvious, etc, etc. I want to know the reason why it's like that, and then I'll decide if it's so wrong.

I can't say I ever flew a F6F outside of a sim, let alone in WWII...I have seen pics, but this canopy is so obviously done that way, it had to have been intentional <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What reason could they have had? This is obviously an artistic attempt at rendering oil or grease splotches on the glass. So what was the source of the oil? Was the engine throwing oil? The cowl flap hydraulics throwing oil? The prop throwing oil?



-Bill <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to say that this is your opinion <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not an opinion, it's a clear and accurate description of every source of oil or grease that could possibly have an effect on the canopy glass. The only thing left out is the pilot's use of excessive hair grease. The fact that you consider it to be an opinion only serves to highlight how little you seem to understand aircraft.

Again, I state based on knowledge of the Hellcat's construction and systems layout there is no justification for the excessive amount of simulated grease stains on it's canopy glass compared with the other aircraft in the sim.

I'll turn your question around for you to answer - give me one example of a source for the staining and explain how it applies more so to the Hellcat than the other fighters in the sim. If you can't support your comments with knowledge than perhaps you should keep your opinions to yourself and let those that know work it out.

-Bill

|CoB|_Spectre
03-04-2005, 04:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tolwyn.com:
You guys really really really really need to learn how to use the SEARCH function on this board. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You really, really, really, really need to try to get something useful out of the Search function of this board. It rarely provides a link to information that can be found by scrolling back through the posts.

If you can't provide something in the way of a productive response, why waste your time and everyone else's with such posts?

Chuck_Older
03-05-2005, 07:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hawkmeister:

Again, I state based on knowledge of the Hellcat's construction and systems layout there is no justification for the excessive amount of simulated grease stains on it's canopy glass compared with the other aircraft in the sim.

I'll turn your question around for you to answer - give me one example of a source for the staining and explain how it applies more so to the Hellcat than the other fighters in the sim. If you can't support your comments with knowledge than perhaps you should keep your opinions to yourself and let those that know work it out.

-Bill <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, so this is what the discussion devolves into at last, a confrontation. Fine.

Read *carefully* this time, please:

That is your opinion on why the stains are there, not what the "stains" are. It is not verified that these are "oil stains"

I did not post at any time that those things you mention are not the sources of oil and/or grease. I expressed no opinion on it at all

What I did post was that it is your opinion that these are supposed to be oil or grease stains

Do you understand now? Instead of telling me to keep my mouth shut, maybe you should read what I post.

I don't care about your knowledge of F6F construction in this regard- it is irrelevant. We are talking about a modeller's interpretation of the real thing, not the real thing itself. Do you understand?

You cannot divorce your knowledge of the actual aircraft from one on a computer screen, it seems to me. We are not talking about why a real F6F would have stains on it's canopy. My entire post history in this thread has been driving at finding out the reason why whoever modelled the canopy did it that way

You ask me for a source for the staining?!?!

Do you understand that <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">I never thought it was a stain?!</span> You behave as if I have said "No, those stains aren't from oil" I have <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">not!</span>.

I have not agreed with you it is an oil stain, period. I do not know if it's supposed to be an oil stain or if it's simply a mistake in programming an effect similar to what we see in other aircraft, or if it's supposed to be window tint that was improperly modelled. I do not think it's oil staining. I do not think it's anything at all, I think it's probably some effect that was attempted, and something got coded imperfectly- but whether or not that effect was from any source, such as the results of oil staining? Nope, I did not think that, post that, or allude to it. That is what YOU think it's from

"If you can't support your comments with knowledge than perhaps you should keep your opinions to yourself and let those that know work it out."

See, this says it all. You think I'm talking about the real aircraft. I'm talking about a PC replica. Code gets screwed up sometimes

For the last time, I will ask you again:

" Do you know why the F6F in the simulation has this canopy effect?"

DO NOT give me reasons for real aircraft to have canopy stains. Do NOT consider what parts of a real engine throw oil (for your information, I studied aeronautical engineering at University)

This is your pet complaint; and now since you think I am arguing with you about the sources of oil stains, you are all huffy. You have made up your mind that these are oil stains, you expect me to agree that they are oil stains, and you also assume that everyone ahould be of the opinion it's oil staining because that's what you say it is. Well, I deny you the right to make up my opinions and also to put words in my mouth. I have no opinion on the source of this canopy effect that you say is oil staining. I have been saying all along "What is the cause of this effect?" Your opinion is that it is oil staining.

Tell me why in this sim the canopy has that odd effect. Do you <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">know</span> that this is supposed to be oil on the canopy?

Yes or no: Did the modeller intend this to be the visual effect of oil staining.

hawkmeister
03-05-2005, 12:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Okay, so this is what the discussion devolves into at last, a confrontation. Fine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This has devolved into a confrontation because you seem to be determined to defend the appearance of these "stains" (let's say it's NOT oil or grease just for the sake of discussion), arguing against anyone who challenges their presence, and generally serving no other purpose than to argue for these blemishes' continued existance.

Regardless of what particular substance these blemishes are supposed to represent, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that they were put there by the 3D modeler as part of an artistic effect.

"Code gets screwed up sometimes."

Really? It sure does. But if this was a programming problem it should affect all the transparencies in the sim - not just the Hellcat. It is obviously a "feature" of the 3D model.

So the entire effect of your posts on this topic has been to justify this problem, while providing absolutely zero information to support it. If you actually were a student of aeronautical engineering (that doesn't tell me much - I can make the same claim) then perhaps you could apply some of that knowledge to examining this problem rather than running interference on those of us trying to get it removed.

As it is, nothing you have said throughout this thread has been of any use. It seems to me you just have to stick your mouth into the discussion regardless of your ability to actually contribute something. And for that reason I would prefer that you either put up or shut up.

I don't see you making statements like, "maybe my favorite plane should have this feature, too."

Lets hear it - all in favor of making all the planes like this - SPEAK UP!

You're ****ed right I'm huffy. You're a noisy obstacle to a resolution.

-Bill

Chuck_Older
03-05-2005, 01:30 PM
You're calling me out? Are you out of your flipping mind?

What do you think I have posted? Are you reading the same thread I am? What words I have posted are a challenge in your language?

Let me try to hammer this through the cement of your skull

The first step in solving a problem is identifying what the problem is. Always, no exceptions

You have not done that. What you HAVE done is to assume your way to the root cause of the problem- it's an oil stain, you say. proof that this is an oil stain that is modelled? None at all!

All I have ever asked about in this thread is how we know what the issue is, and let's find out what the reason the canopy is like that. Period, end of story.

If you think, that by asking about the root cause of the problem, I am an obstacle, then you are not very good at fixing problems. May I suggest you think before you get all p!ssy occasionally?

So far, you have singled me out, lit into me about something I didn't do, taken your frustrations out on me because a canopy in a video game is wrong, and challenged me about God knows what- all without ever once addressing any of the points I have brought up...you think I have none? Go read the post again, slowly, and don't skip ahead to the parts that get you all riled, read the whole thing

Are you surprised that it's my opinion that you should have some warm milk and take a nap? Because this temper tantrum thing doesn't impress me, and your bad attitude doesn't either. You're never going to get the canopy fixed if you think demands and confrontation is the answer. You want to get the canopy fixed?

Great!

Determine the cause of the problem first. There could be several. But you don't want to hear that, you prefer to bully your way to an agreement that you know all. Sorry, that is something I'm immune to. If anyone should be proving anything, it's you who should prove that this is supposed to be oil stains.

I've asked you several times about it, and your silence is all the answer I need.

You persist in behaving as if I am arguing that an oil stained canopy is correct for the F6F.

I keep telling you I don't know WHAT is on the canopy glass, but if I don't agree with you, I must be opposing you, right?

Good luck, you're gonna need it

-Older, out

hawkmeister
03-05-2005, 01:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

-Older, _out_ <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good. Thank you.

|CoB|_Spectre
03-05-2005, 01:51 PM
There's no telling what purpose the modeler had in mind when including the stains. If it was the work of a texture artist (obviously not part of the wireframe phase), he/she may've thought it was artsy-craftsy. I always had the impression it was supposed to be cockpit reflections. If that's true, the big issue is that reflections should change along with light angles and the smears/stains/whatever-you-want-to-call-them, do not. The Hellcat canopy and windscreen bracing is a big enough obstacle to visibility without adding translucent panels. I've been in military aircraft maintenance for 25 years and few things are more important to a combat pilot than having as clear a view of the world outside his cockpit as he can get...his life depends on it! Personally, I believe it was artist's attempt at modeling something that should've been left to the 3D guys, but you'd have to ask the texture artist to know for sure...then we get the torches, ropes and pitchforks.

Zur-TECH
03-07-2005, 09:41 PM
I can tell you with 100% accuracy the modeler did "not" smudge the glass...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

www.Zur-TECH.com (http://www.Zur-TECH.com)

hawkmeister
03-07-2005, 09:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zur-TECH:
I can tell you with 100% accuracy the modeler did "not" smudge the glass...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.Zur-TECH.com <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey! You're the guy! What IS the story on that stuff, then? I mean, otherwise the model is very nicely done.

Thanks for responding.

-Bill

Jazz-Man
03-08-2005, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
So nobody knows why the canopy is like this in the first place?

Maybe we should find out? There's quite an echo in here... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC, it's part of every aircraft's texture modelling. There is always some kind of texture assigned to the glass on the model so that it isn't just empty space, and again if I understood what was explained to me, it's up to the modeller to set the opacity when the model is submitted, and that sometimes the game engine reacts differently to different kinds of textures.

For what it's worth anyway..

Zur-TECH
03-08-2005, 10:40 AM
What happened?

Well, truth be told I'm not entirely sure...

Yes, the opauque is set by the modeler, however there is also an alpha texture applied to the glass... I can tell you this much, I'm not a texturing guy, I just model... that said Oleg's team obviously re-painted a number of areas in my cockpit (and I truly am appreciative of this...) and I suspect at some point a texture either accidentally or intensionally got put on the glass... but it's not the one I submitted it with.

VW-IceFire
03-08-2005, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zur-TECH:
What happened?

Well, truth be told I'm not entirely sure...

Yes, the opauque is set by the modeler, however there is also an alpha texture applied to the glass... I can tell you this much, I'm not a texturing guy, I just model... that said Oleg's team obviously re-painted a number of areas in my cockpit (and I truly am appreciative of this...) and I suspect at some point a texture either accidentally or intensionally got put on the glass... but it's not the one I submitted it with. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You should try and contact Oleg to see if there's anything to be done. Its an odd graphical bug for sure...

If it was at the level of the Beaufighter or Bf-110 there wouldn't be this discussion.

tolwyn.com
03-08-2005, 12:05 PM
Bingo.
The opacity "ramp" or "alpha channel" information for the glass textures is incorrectly set for this model.

The model will have to be "recompiled" (note quotes) to incorporate the correct opacity setting.

The texture for the glass is global to the game; however, the opacity setting is specific to each model.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jazz-Man:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
So nobody knows why the canopy is like this in the first place?

Maybe we should find out? There's quite an echo in here... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC, it's part of every aircraft's texture modelling. There is always some kind of texture assigned to the glass on the model so that it isn't just empty space, and again if I understood what was explained to me, it's up to the modeller to set the opacity when the model is submitted, and that sometimes the game engine reacts differently to different kinds of textures.

For what it's worth anyway.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Zur-TECH
03-08-2005, 12:56 PM
Opacity problem?

No...

This is a texture/alpha issue. The cockpit was submitted with the default/global glass texture. The pattern in the Hellcat's glass, I assure you is "not" the default/global texture... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

|CoB|_Spectre
03-08-2005, 03:45 PM
Finally, some authoritative input. Thanks for shedding some light (non-reflective http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif of course) on the issue, Zur-TECH. Maybe someone at 1C:Maddox can do something about it, since it was done beyond your part of the project. Btw, nice work.

Chuck_Older
03-08-2005, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zur-TECH:
Opacity problem?

No...

This is a texture/alpha issue. The cockpit was submitted with the default/global glass texture. The pattern in the Hellcat's glass, I assure you is "not" the default/global texture... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you for posting, Zur-TECH, and thanks for your hard work http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

hawkmeister
03-08-2005, 04:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zur-TECH:
Opacity problem?

No...

This is a texture/alpha issue. The cockpit was submitted with the default/global glass texture. The pattern in the Hellcat's glass, I assure you is "not" the default/global texture... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks a bunch for explaining this, Zur-TECH.

So it sounds like we have a solid basis for getting this fixed.

Anyone from the development team care to chime in?

-Bill

Chuck_Older
03-08-2005, 05:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hawkmeister:

So it sounds like we have a solid basis for getting this fixed.

Anyone from the development team care to chime in?

-Bill <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that's all I want, too, Bill


peace

hawkmeister
03-08-2005, 05:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
that's all I want, too, Bill


peace <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I sent an email to the bug reporting address, quoting some of the posts here and referencing this discussion. I also included some screenshots. Hopefully they'll respond in the positive.

-Bill