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Real720
03-10-2006, 06:21 PM

Real720
03-10-2006, 06:21 PM

korn311
03-10-2006, 06:56 PM
No melee for me, didn't need it before.

Pacemaker701SQ
03-10-2006, 07:17 PM
I like the idea, because I hate not having many options when I run out of ammo. I also think we should have access to knives off the bat too.
There should always be a steath kill method in these kinds of games.

Real720
03-10-2006, 07:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by korn311:
No melee for me, didn't need it before. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You didn't need it before because the previous versions of rainbow six, frankly, did not have such realism when it came to supressed weapons.
Like I said before, silencers do not get rid of noises completely.

DayGlow
03-10-2006, 07:41 PM
smacking someone on the back of the head is no garantee of a clean KO in real life either. Knives are messy and can be loud as well. From what I've read most units do use suppressed weapons, especially a .22 hushpuppy for stealthy kills because even though it isn't the quietest thing out there, it does not sound like a gunshot.

Real720
03-10-2006, 07:57 PM
Well what if melee attacks can create after-effects like distorted vision or whatnot, depending on where the individual gets struck?

And also, combat knives definitely aren't as loud as supressed weapons. It's true that some supressors almost completely gets rid of noise, but still, knives can be useful when it comes to shortage in ammunition or something.

doubleTAP5.56mm
03-10-2006, 09:26 PM
NO
But I'll one up you on this one; want to keep it real and close quarters as it should be? Leave out the f***ing grenade launchers.

BigCat75
03-10-2006, 09:39 PM
Agreed, no.
Guys, when this type of team enters a room, those on the recieving end of their offensive assault are utterly overwhelmed by the speed, precision, and ultra violent nature of CQB tactics. And, anyone who attempts to follow the CT team into that room to engage them is walking into the biggest world of sht they could ever imagine.
I'm not picking on anyone, but anyone who takes the time to ponder and suggest tactical ideas for this game should take at least a few minutes and research the material on the web. It's not boring stuff.

Real720
03-10-2006, 10:08 PM
On second thought, melee attacks would make the action a little too sketchy. Like what DayGlow said, melee attacks don't guarentee an instant KO.

dreaded_one
03-10-2006, 10:31 PM
Similar to what Bigcat says about knowing a little about CQB, I think Rainbow software should include at least some very basic info or introduction to CQB and Rainbow's tactics. It might give it some sense of authenticity, something that the console versions have lacked almost entirely.
And, jeesh, maybe it would encourage at least a small percent of the Halo-R6 crowd to give tactics a try!

Real720
03-10-2006, 10:44 PM
This thread isn't about whether the next game should have tactics or not!

Ender.W
03-11-2006, 12:38 AM
i think melee attacks would be cool. Just dont make them over powering. maybe make it stun them a bit or knock them down. I think the option would
be cool to have. Also if the melee would work u would need to do alot of tweakin with it.

dreaded_one
03-11-2006, 02:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
This thread isn't about whether the next game should have tactics or not! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I know, I think the point about tactics was that if more new R6 players understood the type of CQB tactics used in counter terror, such as room clearing, barracade infiltration, etc, they would see the flaw in suggesting malee attacks, knives, creeping around, and so on.

doubleTAP5.56mm
03-11-2006, 03:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ender.W:
i think melee attacks would be cool.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, they are cool. Very cool. IN OTHER GAMES.
In
other
games.

Real720
03-11-2006, 07:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doubleTAP5.56mm:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ender.W:
i think melee attacks would be cool.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, they are cool. Very cool. IN OTHER GAMES.
In
other
games. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I concur. I never really liked melee attacks, but I thought it might've been useful in this game, so I mentioned it.

Aj6627
03-11-2006, 08:43 AM
Hell no.
This is Rainbow Six. If I wanted melee attacks, then I'd play Halo 2.

cre8nhavoc
03-11-2006, 08:03 PM
No, no melee attacks and I hope they rid the game of the knife too. Rainbow Six doesn't need a knife in a gunners game.

doubleTAP5.56mm
03-12-2006, 03:17 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not against malee just because I don't like it, I do like it in different games. But ALL I want in R6 is what this type of CT team uses in real life, period. That's the whole point of playing R6 instead of other "shooters".

Ghost Dog 3
03-13-2006, 05:28 AM
A knife would be nice only in mission mode and must have nice movement like in Far Cry or Splinter Cell.

I don't mind having some extras as long they ar for missions and not multiplayer Vs.I say no cause I want the original game first then the extars can come later after they regain something they lost.

The knife in Lockdown was useless and had bad movement.It looked like in Morrowind when you try to pick a lock lol

doped04
03-15-2006, 06:14 PM
I think its one of the most stupid idea ever rainbow is not that sort of game u dont need to add silly little things like that it just needs a little bit from each of the games a graphics revamp and then maybe that will be the best idea that ubisoft can have...

doped04
03-15-2006, 06:17 PM
Leave the mellee attacks to HALO if thats the sort of thing you want play that

Real720
03-15-2006, 06:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doped04:
Leave the mellee attacks to HALO if thats the sort of thing you want play that </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Halo's ******* garbage! I'd be better off with splinter cell!

doped04
03-15-2006, 06:36 PM
<span class="ev_code_red">post removed for language
DayGlow/moderator</span>

Real720
03-15-2006, 09:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doped04:
<span class="ev_code_red">post removed for language
DayGlow/moderator</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

..........what was that?

doubleTAP5.56mm
03-15-2006, 10:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doped04:
Leave the mellee attacks to HALO if thats the sort of thing you want play that </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Halo's ******* garbage! I'd be better off with splinter cell! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't see anything wrong with liking Halo AND R6, they're different types of games. It's like comparing a football game to a soccer game. Personally, regardless whether I like Halo or not, I acknowledge it as possibly the best video game ever made.
But it aint Rainbow. Rainbow is in a league of it's own (well, pc R6 is).
Malee shouldn't be in R6 simply because R6 = realism. And realism = CT CQB tactics. Doesn't mean I "don't like" malee, it just isn't R6.

DEATHx2
03-16-2006, 12:06 AM
nah i like hoppin around like an idiot when both guys run out of ammo and the first to reload wins... thats real rainbow six

DEATHx2
03-16-2006, 12:08 AM
oh and also has anyone really ran out of ammo like you get 12 mags in a 3 minute round thats plenty. then you get your secondary

DETHBLOW_V
03-16-2006, 03:24 AM
No grenade launchers, no knives, what's next? No rifles, pistols only? I guess I am the only one who got any satisfaction catching someone off-guard and knifing them in the back, knowing they would see I just stabbed them. Everyone knows that military spec-ops, swat, etc., don't carry knives, -NOT .
I suppose most of you think grenade launchers are for noobs, too. Especialy when you're trying to lean-slow-glitch-walk and you die when it hits your feet, but if you had been shot with a real gun, you wouldn't be dead, would you cheater? Guess I just like to blow <span class="ev_code_red">[EDIT]</span> up.
As far as melee attacks go, NO, NO, NO.

<span class="ev_code_red">Do not try to bypass the swear filter! -Rage</span>

Chris_448
03-16-2006, 11:04 AM
melee shouldn't be a thing you always can use, it should be implemented if you and a terrorist keep shooting at each other and he/she has to reload and you can run up and bash him only then.

DEATHx2
03-16-2006, 11:27 AM
and how the hell would that work?

Death_Shaman
03-16-2006, 12:04 PM
I won€t ever be using a knife, but if that is your thing, have at it. I guarantee you that you won€t be sneaking up on me, and when I spin on you, you are going to be a bullet sponge. People envision melee attacks being like they are in the movies. Knife a player and he goes down without a sound. Movies are less true to life than Lockdown was. I am not bringing a knife to a gun fight. I rarely run out of ammo on my primary, but if I do, I pull out my pistol.

As for the issue of grenade launchers that is also being discussed. I don€t mind grenade launchers, but I get tired of players carrying them and using them as their primary. This promoted a run and gun style of play. A player didn€t need to play tactically, just run into a room and launch a grenade in the direction of the first player they see. This is not the tactical way to use them, but it was the standard way that players used them. I guess we will see if it can be implemented in a way that forces players to use them in a tactical manner.

KinetixFx
03-16-2006, 12:45 PM
no knives but cracking somebody on the skull with ur gun is legit and could be fun and some humor to the game nothing funnier then catching somebody using there corner came and whacking the hell out of them with ur gun.

doubleTAP5.56mm
03-16-2006, 02:58 PM
Ubi, I'm begging you, please include some basic counter terror/ CQB info with the game. It seems that's the only way some people will ever take a minute to actually learn anything about it.

People, the first thing I would suggest about your "tactical" thinking, forget EVERYthing you know and do in other shooters. "You must unlearrrrn what you have learned"-Yoda

Lose the lonewolf mentality. There is no purer TEAM than a CT team (and SWAT too). They are made up of several members but move everywhere TOGETHER and execute as a SINGLE unit.
They don't run out of ammo, they don't run up and knife the tango as they race to put in a new clip (omg). They use stealth to get TO the engagement, not sneak around and slit throats.

And grenade launchers? Possibly for smoke and teargas, but high explosives?? White phosphorus???!!!!!!!!

Come on guys, use the web or something; if you're such a huge R6 fan, then why no interest in the subject matter?

dreaded_one
03-16-2006, 03:19 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

In some areas, you don't need to look any further than the PC series to see how it's done, as far as the proper hardware and stuff.

GSG_9_Rage
03-16-2006, 03:58 PM
yeah, take a lesson from double tap, he is a smart fellow. he knows what he is talking about

doubleTAP5.56mm
03-16-2006, 10:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GSG_9_Rage:
yeah, take a lesson from double tap, he is a smart fellow. he knows what he is talking about </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not Mr. Special Forces, but jeez, just understanding basic movement and room clearing, and proper use of firearms, takes like an hour or two to research and comprehend (for video game purposes).
I don't mean to criticize people for their misguided approach to the game, but I have to speak up when suggestions are made to R6 gameplay that would effect it's realism (what little is left in console versions.) Especially when it's a Ubi game, since they seem to alter the gameplay to cater to non R6 fans rather than R6 fans.

SirJOW
03-28-2006, 10:49 PM
The idea of melee is pretty good. I mean, come on, you Far Cry lovers (like me...thanks in-part to the letdown) would be pressing that B key constantly when running out of bullets and are 3 feet away from your opponent. That sure would beat bobbiing up and down while reloading.

I like the idea of melee only having a "stun" effect by the way. That would keep it from being used as the "weapon." I hate those people who like to melee kill using their fists or a knife. It seems so "ghetto." Something Rainbow Six isn't!

Defuser
03-28-2006, 11:47 PM
Take a look at 'The Regiment'. That has a knife in it. You can use it. When you do, you see how RIDICULOUS it is to try and use one in CQB. Unless in the VERY RARE circumstance you manage to get the complete drop on your opponent, you're dead. Approach ANYBODY armed with a knife and they've got a gun and you're dead. It is that simple. Put the knife in Rainbow if only to highlight how stupid it is, and a myth, that if you send a man with a knife into a building full of terrorists during a raid, they'd somehow end up getting at least one kill.

del130528032037
03-29-2006, 10:06 AM
Was melee on any of the other Rainbow Six games?
What happened to Letdown when designers said Hey! Lets put some new stuff in this game. They're really going to like this.

See my point! I think the whole idea of melee is absolutely obsurd, and should not be entertained. We were doing fine without it. Let us be. I honestly don't want change to Rainbow Six 3 unless it means better graphics,

better sound, and better intelligence. I'm all together skipping what's between Rainbow Six 3 and Rainbow Six 5. What a monstrousity! 'Til this very day I don't know what they were thinking!

I burned my Critical Hour lastnight! The game stunk!

KinetixFx
03-30-2006, 01:02 PM
no knife but like i said above using the back of ur gun to hit somebody in the head is legit im sure real CT's have hit somebody with the bottom of there pistol to knock them out.

del130528032037
03-31-2006, 08:20 AM
It hasn't been in any Rainbow Six games so they shouldn't try to incorporate it into this one. I don't want it to be like halo. If you run out of ammo you can finish them off with a melee. That's not cool. What would happen

with it. Say it was like the halo melee, and you aimed and tried the melee, but you still missed because of connection speed, and a faulty move on a game. That is not cool. The whole idea of melee is bad- real bad.

Catpuss
04-03-2006, 11:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Real720:
Well? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, but if they are implemented, the Merc style in SP:CT was pretty good. Big swing taking alot of effort. Just don't do the crappy Halo "Repeated quick punches or but strikes".

Hatchetforce
04-03-2006, 01:08 PM
Yes, melee attacks should be in the game. Sometimes when you enter, the goal is not to decimate everyone in the room. You must utilize target discrmination. The bad guys may be your best source of intel and you want them alive. You may also have hysterical hostages that only understand force.

Be aware that melee attacks 99% of the time, are not the rotating weapon/buttstroke shown in titles. With a front grip on our weapons, we just ram it straight forward. Believe me, the barrel of a weapon shooting out like a cobra and nailing someone in the ribs, teeth or forehead is a bigger attention getter than a buttstroke.

Also a buttstroke takes your weapon out of the engagement position while striking the subject.

Akedo
04-04-2006, 01:26 AM
wait... you mean that lockdown and critical hour aren't halo sequels??i mean, it can take one or two clips to kill some-one unless your running too, (then it seems to work better)... there ARE melee attacks (knives are melee weapons) and now a regenerating health bar.... now all we need are some power-ups....and were there dood !! ;-)

RoM_Mafia
04-05-2006, 09:55 PM
the only melee we need is a knife. no swings with guns none of that. keep controls the same as black arrow also.

Hatchetforce
04-05-2006, 10:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RoM_Mafia:
the only melee we need is a knife. no swings with guns none of that. keep controls the same as black arrow also. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only reason to melee someone is your gun ran dry, you had a jam, they stepped out of nowhere and you can't get your gun into shooting position, or you do not want to kill them.

If my gun ran dry I would pull my sidearm and engage the target until I could reload my main gun. If they are on me, they are going to get a barrel rammed through their forehead and then I will pull my sidearm, air them out and get my main gun up. Same thing for a malfunction.

I certainly will not pull a knife on someone when I can just as easily pull my pistol.

Sometimes you can't pull either. One of my buds, Tony Pryor was jumped and wound up breaking the guy's neck barehanded.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HZY/is_2_16/ai_113304592

A knife in any of those situations is unrealistic. It would do if your plan was to silently take out a sentry but it is extremely difficult to sneak up on an armed person and usually not worth the risk. We have suppressed weapons that work better.

Darth_SS
04-08-2006, 04:01 PM
I'm saying yes.

I don't think you should be whipping out knives to ginsu people from behind. It's not stealthy. It's stealthier to use a garrotte.

However, I think melee attacks would be a good addition. I know for a fact that SWAT teams are trained to "disable" people manually if need be. I know this because one of my uncles is on a SWAT team. The way he described it was "You hit them very hard very fast to disorientate and knock them down. Then you just point your gun and them and tell them to not move."

I think Vegas could have something like this. Knock someone down, then have someone flex-cuff them.

Also, on a general note about this thread....so many people are complaining that it wouldn't "be in the spirit of CQB." The grand reality that you people forget is two wonderful things...

1) You aren't soldiers. No matter how many books you read, you don't know CQB. Regardless of what you think you know, you're still just an armchair general.

2) Rainbow Six games aren't really CQB. Close Quarters Battle for Rainbow was (in the book) hostage rescue. For the team, hostage rescue is usually something like 2 hours maintaining perimeter, then roughly 1 minute of very intense, very violent conflict. That would be a ****ty video game. And, despite what you want to believe, Ubisoft isn't trying to give you reality. They're out to make money, and to make video games. If realism is so important, then join the army and work your way up to Delta Force.


Mad props to Hatchetforce for actually doing some of this stuff.