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PekkaM
02-19-2006, 03:31 AM
Hi.

I've been playing the first Finnish Brewster campaign in FB and practicing taking on the four engine bombers (PE-8?) in the first mission.

What is the best way to approach them? I've been coming to meet them from almost directly ahead and lightly to the side to end up about 800m above them. Then I fly same direction until I'm almost above them and dive. Problem is that almost always I don't end up flying a straight line that corsses theirs but simply curving after them and get shot up by their rear gunners (insanely accurate btw).

Also what is the best way to shoot them? Does shooting repeatedly at single point weaken them or is it just the same how I spray my bullets into them? I've been closing to 600m and firing weapons 1+2 simultaneously at the middle of their wing trying to cut it off. Shooting at the hull seems to make no difference and killing off their tailgunners first seems a futile effort.

Any tips?

PekkaM
02-19-2006, 03:31 AM
Hi.

I've been playing the first Finnish Brewster campaign in FB and practicing taking on the four engine bombers (PE-8?) in the first mission.

What is the best way to approach them? I've been coming to meet them from almost directly ahead and lightly to the side to end up about 800m above them. Then I fly same direction until I'm almost above them and dive. Problem is that almost always I don't end up flying a straight line that corsses theirs but simply curving after them and get shot up by their rear gunners (insanely accurate btw).

Also what is the best way to shoot them? Does shooting repeatedly at single point weaken them or is it just the same how I spray my bullets into them? I've been closing to 600m and firing weapons 1+2 simultaneously at the middle of their wing trying to cut it off. Shooting at the hull seems to make no difference and killing off their tailgunners first seems a futile effort.

Any tips?

RocketDog
02-19-2006, 03:41 AM
I don't know about the Pe-8, but against most WWII heavy bombers with an awake crew a stern approach is almost certain suicide unless you have very high closing speed.

In real life, attack runs were often made from head-on or even from the beam. The time it takes to set up a group of fighters, make a run, regroup and then crawl ahead of the bomber formation again is considerable, and the attacking fighters are very vulnerable to being disrupted by escorts while trying to do this. Short-legged fighters like the Bf-109 may have had fuel enough for only one or two runs.

In the game, head-on runs can be quite successful. If possible, aim for an engine, although the high closing speed makes that very difficult. Remember to take your time and resist the temptation to charge in unless everything is absolutely perfect.

With machine guns like on the B-239, "spray and pray" isn't going to be very effective. I set my convergence for 300 m and don't open fire before about 350 m. The LW had to regularly tackle US heavies and resorted to more and more larger and larger cannons in an attempt to pack as much firepower into the very short time available for a shot.

The slow 6 o'clock crawl attempted by many gamers is as fatal in the sim as it would have been in real life.

Cheers,

RocketDog.

Siwarrior
02-19-2006, 03:45 AM
I would try to make slashing attacks from the side.
Setup a QMB and make a head on pass with the bomber then make a 180 turn around and draw level to it and then a bit forward of it off to the side. Then try to roll towards it and turn into it at about 70degree deflection then repeat the slashing attack.

PekkaM
02-19-2006, 03:55 AM
What are the surest points to fire at to drop a four engine bomber? If I get one engine it usually wont fall. Clipping a wing seems to be the only sure way I've found short of blowing it up.

On a head on pass, is firing at cockpit a good way to drop them?

Akronnick
02-19-2006, 04:00 AM
Hitting the cockpit is a good target, even if it is light on the instant gratification of big explosions/lots of smoke.

anasteksi
02-19-2006, 04:05 AM
Don't even think about attackin at dethlyakov(don't remember who said that) from behind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. You have to make quick attack and always head on. Other way is to attack straight from up side, turn around and repeat that. You will make bendulum trick. I use that last one after i've made my first head on pass.

anasteksi
02-19-2006, 04:10 AM
PekkaM check your private messages.

Achilles_NZ
02-19-2006, 04:13 AM
Diving near vertically from several hundred meters above is my favorite way of bringing heavies down. You can then use the speed you built up during the dive to climb back up again and quickly setup for another attack. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

The key thing is to hit and run as quickly as possible and not expose yourself for too long to the gunners. (easier said than done though)

The aimpoints I try to go for are either the engines themselves or in between and ignite the fuel tanks.
Outboard of the wings can be quite good too where the wing is more narrow and tapers.

Pe-8's are even more suicidal to attack from the rear due to those rear facing gondola turrets in addition to the top and tail gunner positions! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Mr_Nakajima
02-19-2006, 05:00 AM
One tip is to never fly in a straight line for more than a few seconds. When I get nailed by a bomber's gunner it is often because I have given them long enough to predict exactly where to put that shot to cripple my engine. So approach with a large speed advantage and jink slightly while doing so.

I find aiming for the cockpit less effective than aiming for the engines, even on something like an He 111 with a few panes of perspex for pilot armour. But that could just be because I'm a very poor shot.

JuHa-
02-19-2006, 05:49 AM
If possible, get 1000m directly above the target bomber, fly to same direction and then dive in a steep angle. I usually try to keep my aim slightly in front of the target, start to shoot when it fills the reticle and pull up pretty soon afterwards.

Frontal attacks are effective, when you hit!

mandrill7
02-19-2006, 06:12 AM
Trying to kill viermots with a machine gun armed fighter is a little like trying to kill a pit bull with a rolled up newspaper. BTW there were less than 100 Pe-8's manufactured during the entire war. So a more realistic set-up would be your Brewster vs an Il-4.

As the other guys said, a quick head-on pass is the #1 way to kill a big bomber. Aim at the cockpit or 1 of the engines. I lack the patience to re-position myself for another head-on. I normally drop about .7 BELOW AND BEHIND the target bomber and climb up towards it, jinking like a SOB and praying the rear gunner doesn't get a bead on me. I either shoot into the belly of the bomber or level off for a quick burst into the 7 thru 5 quadrant before yanking hard quickly down again and to the side.

With an uber fighter like the FW-190 this should get the kill and you'll probably get away unscathed or with a fuel tank leak. With a weakly armed fighter and an uber bomber like a Pe-8, hmmmmm.............

I'm putting together a campaign for the Ki-84 and used a "C" variant with 30mm cannon against B-29's. I have a great screeny of a Superfort with no vertical tail and HUGE hole in the rear fuselage flying on quite happily and trading shots with a K-84! Viermots can absorb massive punishment to the rear fuselage and still keep chugging. You have to get a wing or engine hit to bring the target down if you're attacking from the rear.

KG51-Edelweis
02-19-2006, 06:28 AM
Yes attacking from below works also o.k., but depends on the plane. Pe-8 can be dangerous,on a Me 323 Gigant crazy, better to attack at high speed from the side they blow appart then fast. The IL2 is best hammered from below as it is there weakest, starts smoking real fast compared to any other attack angel. The He 111 is best knocked out from front the cockpit is easier to hit than most other bombers. Talking of cockpits the Li7 is real easy to hit in the front, takes off the whole cockpit but clear away fast, as although the plane is done the top and waist gunners will still fire at you!

SnapdLikeAMutha
02-19-2006, 07:02 AM
Does anyone remember the mission from IL2 original where you had to shoot down Pe8 with BF109-F2?!?!?! Never could bring those big bastards down with the Foxtrot's popguns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

AnaK774
02-19-2006, 08:15 AM
Sorry, im horrible moviemaker but anyway

http://rapidshare.de/files/13209204/How_to_attack_bombers.wmv.html


That should give you idea how to

anasteksi
02-19-2006, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SnapdLikeAMutha:
Does anyone remember the mission from IL2 original where you had to shoot down Pe8 with BF109-F2?!?!?! Never could bring those big bastards down with the Foxtrot's popguns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I remember that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. That mission was almost impossible http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifD

Doug_Thompson
02-19-2006, 09:46 AM
Check this out. (http://www.il2flying.com/content/view/55/36/)

Shooting down big bombers without cannon is tough, and time consuming. You run out of ammo fast if you don't do maximum damage with every shot.

Try aiming for the wing root. Shots will fall in the cockpit if they miss to one side, and will hit an engine if wide to the other. If they hit, a fuel tank will probably blow up.

arjisme
02-19-2006, 10:46 AM
When its a mission, I don't go for bomber kills. I just try to get them to abort and turn home. If I can take out a straggler and get some credit, I'll give it a go, but I think of the first purpose, which is to stop them from dropping bombs on the target.

I agree a dead six approach is a fast way to get filled with bullets. I try to at least get high and come down in a slashing attack with speed. The gunners rarely hit you if you keep your speed high and they are forced to lead you. I try to hit the engines unless doing a frontal attack (cockpit then). Once an engine is smoking, even on a four engine bomber, they tend to drop out of formation and abort. Often I can get the engine to catch fire. That frequently leads to a kill without having to fire another shot.

djetz
02-19-2006, 01:15 PM
I don't usually have much problem with bombers.

The most important factor (for me) is evasion: don't fly in a straight line. Put yourself in a good situation for shooting, but only for a second or two. Then EVADE. Don't be where they'll be shooting. I can often take down 4 bombers in a row with few hits on my plane and no serious damage.

I believe that in real life, as well as in the game, the best way to get shot is to sit and watch what happens after you shoot. Shoot, then EVADE return fire. After that, find out whether your shooting was effective. If you've damaged a bomber, like shot up the control surfaces or killed an engine, it becomes a lot easier to finish it off on the second pass.

The other thing is, AI gunners ARE killable, but you need to hit them accurately. A few cannon shots right into the tail gunner's position can be very effective, but it's hard to do accurately. It's often easier to shoot up the cockpit and put the plane out of control.

The important factor, always, is shoot then EVADE. Being able to shoot a second time is much better than waiting to see if your first burst worked.

FritzGryphon
02-19-2006, 02:55 PM
Always do a head-on first, if you have time to set up. You are least likely to be hit, and can easily knock off engines or the pilot.

If the bomber has nose guns, don't attack from directly ahead. Instead, slightly below and off to the side.

Another thing most ignore, is to bring friends. Single fighter attacking bomber formation is suicidal. Always in real life, the whole fighter unit attacked at once.

So let your AI teammates attack the bombers first, and let them draw all the fire http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif