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View Full Version : How I would appraoch making Waterfalls and Water Levels.



zeeEVIL1
06-10-2011, 09:30 AM
This has always been one of the bigger dream topics since the first editor came out for this game.

I have what I think are novel approaches to these two things.

WATER LEVELS: Since FC2 came out we have all said this particular Idea; Limit water to each individual Grid Square. That way we can put water at different levels. The pointer can already be enlarged to select multiple grid points at once, this is how we could raise or lower water. Even a couple of water options could be implemented.
such as;
SMOOTH/FLAT
BREAKERS
RAPIDS
CLEAR
MUDDY
If you programIn FC2's Editor, the water for each grid seperately, then we should be able to change the type of water we use.

WATERFALLS:

In FC2 we were given pre sized LADDERS short, medium, Tall. Well, apply that line of thinking to pre-rendered Waterfalls. We could have (3) different types of them; SMALL, MEDIUM, LARGE. In regard to overall height.
Each of these could have (3) options such as LIGHT, MEDIUM and HEAVY in regard to water flow.you could also add (3) options to each type that would allow you to make the waterfall -NARROW-, MEDIUM-, -WIDE-

If you really want to do it right.

The Waterfall should be created so it is like an upside down letter (L) this way we could butt it up against the waters edge on a accessable cliff where the water would be raised to. So the top of the waterfall would have some foamy looking swirls happening like a real waterfall does before pouring over the edge.
Waterfalls are primarily for looks, or to hide a cave or tunnel entrance.

DO NOT PROGRAM COLLISSION DETECTION INTO THEM AT ALL!
This is important because the FC2 ladders would not let you place them unless conditions were perfect.

Since the waterfall itself would be pre-rendered, we should be able to put rocks to gether and then just move the waterfall into position as we like. That way it could look like rocks are poking through it for example.

Inventive players could use them to create some type of fountain or spillway in an interior of a water processing plant type of map.

Imagine creating a pathway that is inside of the big concrete pipes. The water level is raised enough so that you have some -wetness- inside the pipe. When you get to the end of it, there could be a -light- waterfall attached so that it looks like water is pouring out of the pipe into a lower area. that the player could jump down to.

Please feel free to expand on this.

legacyzero
06-10-2011, 03:21 PM
I had the same thoughts on waterfalls. Just placing a static like water curtain that acted like a waterfall would be simple enough.

Your post is a perfect exaple.

SICKSIX6_IOWA
06-10-2011, 03:38 PM
I agree Evil. I've always felt people were way too aggressive over this whole waterfall issue as I don't see it being an important asset in map making other than looks, but overall if they could pull it off that sounds like the perfect way to do it. Hopefully there are some big changes and additions this time around so that we don't have to spend all our time asking for more like we have over the last 6 years and spend that time actually making the maps we've been dying to make.

SIX

Fallen-Champ
06-10-2011, 03:49 PM
The water pump in FC2 when triggered by the host spewed out a jet of water which was more of a trickle - if that was expanded and the water flowed from it correctly there is no reason why something similar could not be used.

As for the waterfall and caves I am sure different models could be pre made with separate attachments and boulders to add if you desired a different look.

As for split level water - your theory sounds good but I don't think we will get it with this game, oddly they always said it wasn't possible before - I guess the editor designer could explain better but we never get to hear from the right people.

zeeEVIL1
06-10-2011, 08:37 PM
Yeah I agree about the seperate water levels.
As for the waterfalls, I was thinking that if it was an animated .gif file, then having it implemented like the ladders were would be an easy task.
The water Pump is actually part of what gave me the idea with its animated water.
But I would rather have dedicated waterfalls. than use the water pump.

As for a cave tool, I see no need for that either. with the rocks that you get you can create endless caves.

Brimtown
06-10-2011, 08:58 PM
One way you could do water at different levels would be similar to "paint" function. You indicate a depression or hole where you want to place water, indicate the height of the water level, then select "fill". Not sure if this is what you were getting at, Evil.

I don't know if the Dunia engine is capable, but I know the 360 is plenty capable of fully realized water physics. Water at a higher level should naturally flow to a lower level; if you have a channel that drops off over a ledge, voila - waterfall.

If an XBLA game (From Dust) can do it, surely a big-budget franchise title should be able to do it.

And I disagree, waterfalls aren't necessarily for aesthetics only, they could serve a role. For example, let's say that you're in a raft, being pursued by enemies, and you approach a waterfall. Do you take the plunge, not knowing if there are large rocks to smash you to bits at the bottom?

Maybe it wasn't possible when FC2 was developed, but hopefully they've had time to figure this out. It's not a deal-breaker by any means, but it would be a very nice addition.

Negrumir
06-11-2011, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by Brimtown:
And I disagree, waterfalls aren't necessarily for aesthetics only, they could serve a role. For example, let's say that you're in a raft, being pursued by enemies, and you approach a waterfall. Do you take the plunge, not knowing if there are large rocks to smash you to bits at the bottom?


Rest assured, if I made the map, there WILL be sharp rocks at the bottom. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I really don't think waterfalls are needed.
Unless they completely revamp the water system, we're not gonna get water level per-grid. Thus, waterfalls won't be needed.

A simple particle effect generator for the waterfalls is all I want. Purely for aesthetics and nothing more. There are much more important things to work on.

RaZoRFINNISH
06-11-2011, 12:01 PM
The most likely reason for the suckiness of the Far Cry 2's water system was that they didn't have the resources on the consoles to really make it that complicated. Far Cry 2 is a pain to run for the consoles, and a proper water system would have slowed it down too much.

It's quite hard to explain, but i'll just say it basicly: Crysis quality water comes at a price of performance.

DapperHayden007
06-11-2011, 04:15 PM
waterfalls are not pointless! Far cry is a game based on the level of naturalism and if there was no water features online then the game would not serve the purpose, plus they could have the waterfalls as stealthy options, you could hide behind them next to the rock and all they see is a shadow of a rock...

"Far Cry is supposed to be based on naturalism" think that might be my new signature now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

zeeEVIL1
06-12-2011, 09:20 AM
Razorfinnish; FC1 and Instincts and even Predator all had great water. That was on the same console earlier on and in fact was the same on the original xbox.
It has zero to do with the tech.
The water was the way it was in FC2 for one reason and one reason alone, immersion. They wanted to accuretly recreate Africa.

@DapperHayden; I mentioned using a waterfall to hide an alcove or a tunnel, but really that is already 50% of the actual gameplay finction that can be applied to it. Other than that it is a purely for looks thing.

I would like to have it, but its not going to be a game changer.

Its the same thing for a tunneling tool.
I have been playing this game for over 6 years and have had no problem creating tunnels. Sure it would be cool to be able to just dig one out, but that tool would require a lot of its own systems to operate and that is a waste of resources.

If someone is inventive enough to use the availible pieces to create a tunnel or a cave, then they will do so.
Personally I would rather see away to put water at different levels.
With that, you could create a secret pathway through the water into an enemy base, or secret weapons stashes or a whole plethora of different things.

UNSCGENERALS
06-12-2011, 09:24 AM
if you watched the demo the water has currents hope to see that in the online

IceT-Bag
06-13-2011, 05:03 PM
I believe the end-user Map Editor didnt support varying levels of water due to the complexity involved and how it would impact on performance - hence they introduced the points system to limit objects with the aim of ensuring that user-made-maps would run efficiently on their intended platform.

The developers Map Editor supported waterfalls and other features not in the end-user editor (cant remember exactly what they where, but do remember the dev I was speaking to mentioned several things).

Would be nice to have that feature, but console tech hasnt changed sinced FC2 so I wouldnt expect to see this feature on consoles for the same reasons it wasnt there in FC2.

legacyzero
06-13-2011, 07:28 PM
I think that, aside from the normal static water level that can be adjusted, I'd like to see an alternate for of water that's just a place-able brush. A normal item like any other item in the editor. There can be different sizes, types, etc. That would settle the whole "water at different heights' problem. Hell, you can make swimming pools and stuff.

zeeEVIL1
06-14-2011, 03:20 PM
Legacy that is pretty much the same as what I said about waterfalls.
Its a cool Idea. An animated .gif of water that can be placed.
If it was made in the shape of a hollow block, you could jump into the pool also.

RaZoRFINNISH
06-14-2011, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by zeeEVIL1:
Razorfinnish; FC1 and Instincts and even Predator all had great water. That was on the same console earlier on and in fact was the same on the original xbox.
It has zero to do with the tech.
The water was the way it was in FC2 for one reason and one reason alone, immersion. They wanted to accuretly recreate Africa.

@DapperHayden; I mentioned using a waterfall to hide an alcove or a tunnel, but really that is already 50% of the actual gameplay finction that can be applied to it. Other than that it is a purely for looks thing.

I would like to have it, but its not going to be a game changer.

Its the same thing for a tunneling tool.
I have been playing this game for over 6 years and have had no problem creating tunnels. Sure it would be cool to be able to just dig one out, but that tool would require a lot of its own systems to operate and that is a waste of resources.

If someone is inventive enough to use the availible pieces to create a tunnel or a cave, then they will do so.
Personally I would rather see away to put water at different levels.
With that, you could create a secret pathway through the water into an enemy base, or secret weapons stashes or a whole plethora of different things.

Remember: they saved a lot memory in textures in FC:Instincts games. FC2 is one of the best games texture wise available on the consoles.

Also the transition from XBOX to XBOX360 didn't introduce lots of memory, it was still very limited.

So no, if they'd have gone for immersion the water would have been wavy and it wouldn't been all that same muddy green- the water in africa really, only, is like that in still puddles and lakes, not flowing rivers.

EDIT: Screenies of my FC2 editor mod, exclusively on the PC - These are from an unreleased version that will never be released:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/razorfin/waterfall_scene.png

This one proves they're just entities spawning the particle effects:
http://koti.mbnet.fi/razorfin/waterfall.png