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View Full Version : Is the USAAF AI the worst in the game?



relcox
12-20-2008, 08:57 AM
Currently flying the long 9th airforce campaign and my Squadron does the most stupid things, like six planes chasing 1 when there are another 8 enemy aircraft bearing down on them, I'm sure I don't need to elaborate on the annoyances of the AI but I have never seen it so bad, my entire squadron keeps getting wiped out because of this, it is easier to keep my fellow AI pilots alive flying an I-16 in the disasters on the frontiers campaign, also the ability to order my wingmen has not helped during ground attack missions, even when ordered to attack fighters the still insist on flying around low and slow until they have finished firing their rockets even though our normally totally inadequate escort has left us unprotected to chase after 1 fighter. Sorry, but this has never been such a problem for me before (in a good 5 years of IL2) and therefore it has prompted the question, at least the Luftwaffe/VVS/RAF AI seem to have a modicum of intelligence.

On a positive note have just discovered the joys of the P-47 having previously been only good at spinning it, what a great plane.

Anyway, is it the worst?

JtD
12-20-2008, 09:04 AM
They are all the same.

Well, maybe all the guys on your side are more stupid than all the guys on the other side, but that's about it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Aaron_GT
12-20-2008, 09:12 AM
Currently flying the long 9th airforce campaign and my Squadron does the most stupid things, like six planes chasing 1 when there are another 8 enemy aircraft bearing down on them

That happens for other nations too. I had the same experience in a Finnish campaign recently.

Where US planes may do less well is that the AI does still seem better tuned to TnB than BnZ, but this also affects the 190 for the LW and Tempest V for the RAF. The P-47 and P-51 are more like a 190 than they are a Yak in terms of TnB. Good BnZ is going to be more challenging in terms of AI programming as it takes more long term strategy than simply continuing to chase the nearest plane in TnB.

Skarphol
12-20-2008, 09:47 AM
The AI is acting very differently dependant on what map you are flying on.

I set up a QMB-mission with me in an Bf-110G2 with MG151 gunpods against 8 Il-2 Type 3 with 4xFAB 100 each. I play axis, the IL-2 allies.

If I fly this mission on the Smolensk map, the IL-2s more or less stay in formation, just doing lazy evasive manouvers. With litle effort it is possible to shoot them all down.

Then change the map to Okinawa. This will change your nationality from german to japanese, while the IL-2's will switch from russian to american.

Now the IL-2's will attack all the time, and it is very difficult to stay alive if you choose to join in the battle.

If you change map back to Smolensk again, it will become a IL-2 turkey-shoot.

So I think the AI must be very dependant on either the map, or the nationality.

Skarphol

relcox
12-20-2008, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Skarphol:
The AI is acting very differently dependant on what map you are flying on.

I set up a QMB-mission with me in an Bf-110G2 with MG151 gunpods against 8 Il-2 Type 3 with 4xFAB 100 each. I play axis, the IL-2 allies.

If I fly this mission on the Smolensk map, the IL-2s more or less stay in formation, just doing lazy evasive manouvers. With litle effort it is possible to shoot them all down.

Then change the map to Okinawa. This will change your nationality from german to japanese, while the IL-2's will switch from russian to american.

Now the IL-2's will attack all the time, and it is very difficult to stay alive if you choose to join in the battle.

If you change map back to Smolensk again, it will become a IL-2 turkey-shoot.

So I think the AI must be very dependant on either the map, or the nationality.

Skarphol

Interesting, I will keep an eye on this and see if things change when we get out of Normandy

relcox
12-20-2008, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
They are all the same.

Well, maybe all the guys on your side are more stupid than all the guys on the other side, but that's about it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yes could be, survival rate in my squadron is about 2 sorties, so not much experience there.

Divine-Wind
12-20-2008, 10:20 AM
Originally posted by JtD:
They are all the same.
I dunno... I once watched my entire flight of P-40s fly themselves into the Pacific, while the Zeros and Betties we were supposed to kill circled overhead and laughed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Ba5tard5word
12-20-2008, 02:57 PM
I've noticed this too--it seems like the pacific sides (Japan and USAF) have the laziest AI and are easiest to defeat. It's probably dependent on plane--I've seen 1945 109's and 190's be a lot lazier than 1942 versions. And the MiG-3 and Yak-9 are very lazy, but almost any other Russian plane is very tricky to take down.

I asked this here before and a lot of people said the same AI is used, but I'm not so sure.

But I have sometimes wrongly assumed that a certain plane would be lazy, only to see it spank me with good flying and tactics.

Also when I upgraded from FM/AEP/PF to 1946 and patched it to 4.08, I noticed a huge improvement in enemy AI. I kind of wonder if the Pacific sides didn't get an upgrade in AI like the other sides did....but this is all just my theories.

M_Gunz
12-20-2008, 03:50 PM
Are you making sure that AI quality in the missions are equal?
Depending on year and country there are possibly different levels due to historic training?

Aaron_GT
12-20-2008, 04:59 PM
Maybe there is something in the code to use historical tactics or something? I honestly hadn't noticed myself as mostly I just get fed up with the AI doing the wrong things http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Well if there is a difference then I stand corrected. I still think one of the big issues is programming AI to BnZ properly. It's not that easy for humans, although some of that is an issue of getting impatient and swapping to TnB http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

relcox
12-20-2008, 05:46 PM
Something is definitely not right, I just ordered my entire flight including my wingman to engage 2 BF109G6/AS, so taking into account the fact that the wingmen for the other pairs won't be firing at the start that is still a 2 to 1 advantage we had the height advantage as well, they still managed to take 5mins to shoot them down and lost 1 themselves, but my flight of 4 FW190s in the same period can and do take on 8 or more allied fighters and win, I will do the campaign from the Luftwaffe side again to really compare the 2.

Does the campaign generator do for the AI squadrons the same promoting etc as it does for the users squadron? It might make a little more sense if that's the case.

Aaron_GT
12-20-2008, 06:34 PM
You can test if it the nation or the plane by changing the nationality assignments.

E.g. set Fw 190s to be USAAF, P51s to be LW, run the mission (you'll need to run several to get an average) and then set the Fw 190s to be LW, P51s to be USAAF.

Nationality should follow the assignment - some planes were used by multiple nations.

Ba5tard5word
12-20-2008, 06:43 PM
Wingmen can be really unpredictable and annoying no matter what plane you're using. Sometimes they're useful and effective, sometimes they'll spend the entire mission flying in a straight line and then crying when they instantly get tailed by the enemy.

Fw-190 wingmen though can be the most effective I've seen...sometimes they'll tear through all the enemies before I can even line up a shot. But when I'm flying against AI 190's, I find them to be pretty lazy compared to AI 109's who loop all over the place.