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the_atm
05-02-2011, 02:28 PM
lately i've seen a bunch of things about stealth and how it should be in the game. so this is going to address all of you who think it should be in the game. First, why do you need stealth? you are a guy who is in white robes, a hood on, crossbow on your back, sword, dagger and 25 knives on you. and if you can hide in a crowd and not been seen, then you dont need stealth. and this is most evident, the second tenant. enough said. and i think (this is just me) that if you can't escape the guards by using hay, crowds, or others, OR you can't get close to your target so you get mad and tell Ubi they need to implement stealth so it's easier for you, then you need to look at our console, do it, now look at the back, you see that big wire sticking out, if that is the power cord please grab it and remove it from the console. now you will notice that your ps3 no longer works. good. now go out side and breath in and out, read a book, smell the flowers, hug a cat. what ever. then plug it back in and try again. the game is just fine with out stealth. i'm not angry i'm just saying if your getting angry at it, take a break. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

itsamea-mario
05-02-2011, 02:47 PM
Exept the whole point of the game was stealth, not to be some super human war machine who takes on 30+ men and wins each time.

The social stealth (cos that's what it is, stealth.) is alright, blending into crowds etc.
But more and more it seems that more traditional stealth is needed, especially when infliltrating a guarded area. Sure you could just fight all the guards and kill you target with a sword, but IMO that takes all the fun and challenge out of it.
I want to sneak in, undetected, kill the target silently, then either sneak out, or Parkour my way out of there.

Your reasoning is very circular, 'He should be like this because he's like this.'

zhyper2
05-02-2011, 02:52 PM
Same. I simply hate stealth missions. Why i need stealth when i can just jump in and kick everyone's?
<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>

itsamea-mario
05-02-2011, 02:58 PM
And you are the very people ruining this game.

There's a sense of satisfaction, if you manage to assassinate your target being completely stealthy.
Unlike if you just mash your way through picking a fight with every guard in the area.

shobhit7777777
05-02-2011, 03:01 PM
and if you can hide in a crowd and not been seen, then you dont need stealth. and this is most evident, the second tenant. enough said
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

shooting yourself in the foot must have really hurt.

The 'Hiding in the crowd' is social STEALTH. Being an Assassin requires you to maintain a covert profile. Stealth doesn't always mean
you crouch in shadows and hide behind walls. The game tries to sell the idea of a silent and deadly Assassin...a guy who strikes swiftly and then melts back into the crowds. The whole allure of the game is based on the act of stealthy assassinations.
The fans deserve fully featured stealth mechanics. The devs themselves recognise Stealth as one of the gameplay pillars. The existing mechanics although, quite brilliant, are still lacking. We are not angry or pointlessly raving.....there is a reason behind our requests. The Stealth poll has had over 30 votes with an overwhelming number of voters in FAVOUR of more stealth. It goes to show that the stealth in the game DOES need some beefing up.

So here's what you should do. Relax. Try and understand the whole 'Stealth integral to Assassin's Creed' argument and then post your views here...while doing so, google 'Social Stealth'

@Zypher

Same. I simply hate stealth missions. Why i need stealth when i can just jump in and kick everyone's?

Cool. You like combat but I like stealth, is it wrong for me (and a LOT of other fans) to settle for the current stealth gameplay when it could be SO much better?
I did not crib when Ubi focussed on combat in Brotherhood. Sure I can understand when Stealth is FORCED on you it might become irritating..but it doesn't mean that Stealth should be abandoned altogether. If the stealth is done right...it could be a LOT more cool and bada55 than simply fighting through enemies. Imagine slinking between crowds, using the environment to avoid guards, silently taking out that lone rooftop archer, quietly killing your target with the hidden blade and then vanishing into the crowd with no one being the wiser. Heck it sounds cool just writing it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I and a LOT of the other fans like to stealthily assassinate folks cause we find the idea of a stealthy Assassin fun and cool. Plus it offers us more challenge. Besides being stealthy is kind of a prerequisite for an Assassin.

SPROGGY
05-02-2011, 03:05 PM
I believe stealth would make the game more plausible and enjoyable. As cool as it is to be able to go rambo on 15 guards, it makes the game too easy. There should be more of a stalk before you gain access to and kill your target. I for one have always hated the white robes because its kind of the antithesis of what you would expect from an assassin. Assassins should be inconspicuous and blend in with the crowd. They should also be stealthy, ruthless and efficient. I believe stealth could be implemented as an option similar to how it was in splinter cell conviction. If you want to run in and go on everybody then fine. But if you would rather use your head and sneak in undetected, sealthily dispatch your target, and then sneak out then you should be able to do so and there should be consequences and rewards for each method.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>

Chewitt321
05-02-2011, 03:12 PM
The reason some people dislike the stealth element in this game is because they either play certain LOUD SHOUTY EVERYTHING HAPPENS IN THIRTY SECONDS first person shooters or whenever they tried to use it the game would be too simple. I.e they try to sneak in and as the run to kill one guard he turns around and "detects" you as you are assassinating him.
Personally I loved the stealth of the first game and was a little disappointed with the stealth elements in the next two games as they were verging on useless.
However, I still believe that it should and could be improved in the next game(s)

john63
05-02-2011, 03:34 PM
I am definitely for more stealth options in the game, but I agree that forcing stealth on every player would be annoying for "Rambo" style players. (I find that label ironic, since the first Rambo movie was ALL about stealthing through the woods and knifing oblivious cops.)

The way I see it, every mission should have multiple options and paths to completion. There ought to be some direct routes for the sword-happy types, and some stealthy paths for neck-snappy types. Above all else, I get annoyed when a certain path or certain playstyle is REQUIRED; what's the point of a sandbox game if you put us on rails for the most fun parts of the game?

HellSniper666
05-02-2011, 03:37 PM
I would like to see some Crouching whilemoving Features and Lean against walls and looking around corners.

the_atm
05-02-2011, 07:59 PM
wait a second, i dont want stealth, i'm more then happy with the system that we have now, i dont want any thing to change, i'm explaining why we DONT need a new stealth system.

Oatkeeper
05-02-2011, 10:18 PM
anyone who has played AC1 and appreciates what it was trying to do would agree this game needs more stealth. While fighting a bunch of people can be intense (in other games, its far from being engaging in AC), hiding in a crowd only a few feet from your target waiting for a chance to strike and make your daring escape can also be just as intense.

The Problem in AC2 and Brotherhood is that the combat lacks depth and the AI is ******ed (AC1 wasnt much better but at least they offered a challange) You can easily cut down 30 gaurds and there is no incentive for using stealth since the aggressive way is a lot faster and easier. If combat was actually harder and guard AI was better than both stealth and Aggression would be improved.

Combat could be challenging and require more player skill, really engage the player to play the game and not spam buttons. more than 5-6 guards and New guards joining a fight should cause serious problems for the player and at least make them seriously consider running and avoiding fights 100% of the time. Of course that means that Stealth would be a more worthwhile strategy becuase it would allow players to take up the equally challenging but different task of not getting seen when surrounded by guards and trying to get your kills silently and unnoticed.

Thats the beauty of AC1, you could take any aproach you want to any assassination, and players where forced to react more to the situation. The direction the series has been going in now has gotten away from that, not only in the game play, but in the narritive. Players no longer get to kill half their targets as much as it is handed to them, and they dont get to discover targets behaviors and motives becuase they are simply "evil".

before I get too off tangent im gonna leave off with that the Assassins where called "blades in the crowd" for a reason. And Ezio has broken the creed on a regular basis. So we are playing a game where we are no longer the common image of Asssassin, and dont follow a creed... Assassins Creed ...hmmmmm.

Perhaps you would prefer Prince of Persia. The trilogy just came out for PS3, its a really good deal. Its basically a linear and combat centric AC with no stealth elements. And the Sands of Time (best game in the series) was directed by the creator of AC.

masterfenix2009
05-02-2011, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Oatkeeper:
anyone who has played AC1 and appreciates what it was trying to do would agree this game needs more stealth. While fighting a bunch of people can be intense (in other games, its far from being engaging in AC), hiding in a crowd only a few feet from your target waiting for a chance to strike and make your daring escape can also be just as intense.

The Problem in AC2 and Brotherhood is that the combat lacks depth and the AI is ******ed (AC1 wasnt much better but at least they offered a challange) You can easily cut down 30 gaurds and there is no incentive for using stealth since the aggressive way is a lot faster and easier. If combat was actually harder and guard AI was better than both stealth and Aggression would be improved.

Combat could be challenging and require more player skill, really engage the player to play the game and not spam buttons. more than 5-6 guards and New guards joining a fight should cause serious problems for the player and at least make them seriously consider running and avoiding fights 100% of the time. Of course that means that Stealth would be a more worthwhile strategy becuase it would allow players to take up the equally challenging but different task of not getting seen when surrounded by guards and trying to get your kills silently and unnoticed.

Thats the beauty of AC1, you could take any aproach you want to any assassination, and players where forced to react more to the situation. The direction the series has been going in now has gotten away from that, not only in the game play, but in the narritive. Players no longer get to kill half their targets as much as it is handed to them, and they dont get to discover targets behaviors and motives becuase they are simply "evil".

before I get too off tangent im gonna leave off with that the Assassins where called "blades in the crowd" for a reason. And Ezio has broken the creed on a regular basis. So we are playing a game where we are no longer the common image of Asssassin, and dont follow a creed... Assassins Creed ...hmmmmm.

Perhaps you would prefer Prince of Persia. The trilogy just came out for PS3, its a really good deal. Its basically a linear and combat centric AC with no stealth elements. And the Sands of Time (best game in the series) was directed by the creator of AC. I agree that stealth should be more focused in ac as well. In AC2,I used as much stealth as possible,even though it was more easier to just fight. But I do think it is more focused in AC:B. Well, focused isn't the right word. They gave you a reason to be stealthy. Your ideas can help it become more of a stealth game again. But I hate difficulty as I only play games for the story. Nothing more, nothing less. I would rather keep the illusion that the enemy is fighting me when not. ex:Guard shoots me,but he always misses. I would like certain things harder, as in boss fights to make them epic.
Ezio did brake the creed on a regular basis, but most of it was before he was initiated and became a new assassin. In Brotherhood he kept to the creed more IMO, and only broke it to ensure the survival of the assassins.

LCGuardian
05-03-2011, 12:14 AM
In my opinion, these games need stealth, and would be enhanced by providing more options for those who wish to play stealthily (while still allowing killing machine players to rampage). Frankly, combat was easy to dominate in AC2, and insanely easy in ACB. For those who prefer a little more challenge, a quality stealth implementation is the answer (or at least an answer).

The most satisfying mission I've completed in the Assassin's Creed series was ghosting into the fortress at Acre and assassinating William of Montferrat without any alerts or notice. It took time, patience and planning, but that was why it was so satisfying. Of course, I am of the Splinter Cell Chaos Theory era rather than Conviction, so genuine stealth does appeal.

shobhit7777777
05-03-2011, 02:05 AM
anyone who has played AC1 and appreciates what it was trying to do would agree this game needs more stealth. While fighting a bunch of people can be intense (in other games, its far from being engaging in AC), hiding in a crowd only a few feet from your target waiting for a chance to strike and make your daring escape can also be just as intense.

The Problem in AC2 and Brotherhood is that the combat lacks depth and the AI is ******ed (AC1 wasnt much better but at least they offered a challange) You can easily cut down 30 gaurds and there is no incentive for using stealth since the aggressive way is a lot faster and easier. If combat was actually harder and guard AI was better than both stealth and Aggression would be improved.

Combat could be challenging and require more player skill, really engage the player to play the game and not spam buttons. more than 5-6 guards and New guards joining a fight should cause serious problems for the player and at least make them seriously consider running and avoiding fights 100% of the time. Of course that means that Stealth would be a more worthwhile strategy becuase it would allow players to take up the equally challenging but different task of not getting seen when surrounded by guards and trying to get your kills silently and unnoticed.

Thats the beauty of AC1, you could take any aproach you want to any assassination, and players where forced to react more to the situation. The direction the series has been going in now has gotten away from that, not only in the game play, but in the narritive. Players no longer get to kill half their targets as much as it is handed to them, and they dont get to discover targets behaviors and motives becuase they are simply "evil".

before I get too off tangent im gonna leave off with that the Assassins where called "blades in the crowd" for a reason. And Ezio has broken the creed on a regular basis. So we are playing a game where we are no longer the common image of Asssassin, and dont follow a creed... Assassins Creed ...hmmmmm.

Perhaps you would prefer Prince of Persia. The trilogy just came out for PS3, its a really good deal. Its basically a linear and combat centric AC with no stealth elements. And the Sands of Time (best game in the series) was directed by the creator of AC.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

@LCguardian
Montferrat was my favourite assignment. I remember completing ALL the investigations, scouting the castle before the assassination and then using the rooftops to silently stab him.

Oatkeeper
05-03-2011, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by assassino151:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Oatkeeper:
anyone who has played AC1 and appreciates what it was trying to do would agree this game needs more stealth. While fighting a bunch of people can be intense (in other games, its far from being engaging in AC), hiding in a crowd only a few feet from your target waiting for a chance to strike and make your daring escape can also be just as intense.

The Problem in AC2 and Brotherhood is that the combat lacks depth and the AI is ******ed (AC1 wasnt much better but at least they offered a challange) You can easily cut down 30 gaurds and there is no incentive for using stealth since the aggressive way is a lot faster and easier. If combat was actually harder and guard AI was better than both stealth and Aggression would be improved.

Combat could be challenging and require more player skill, really engage the player to play the game and not spam buttons. more than 5-6 guards and New guards joining a fight should cause serious problems for the player and at least make them seriously consider running and avoiding fights 100% of the time. Of course that means that Stealth would be a more worthwhile strategy becuase it would allow players to take up the equally challenging but different task of not getting seen when surrounded by guards and trying to get your kills silently and unnoticed.

Thats the beauty of AC1, you could take any aproach you want to any assassination, and players where forced to react more to the situation. The direction the series has been going in now has gotten away from that, not only in the game play, but in the narritive. Players no longer get to kill half their targets as much as it is handed to them, and they dont get to discover targets behaviors and motives becuase they are simply "evil".

before I get too off tangent im gonna leave off with that the Assassins where called "blades in the crowd" for a reason. And Ezio has broken the creed on a regular basis. So we are playing a game where we are no longer the common image of Asssassin, and dont follow a creed... Assassins Creed ...hmmmmm.

Perhaps you would prefer Prince of Persia. The trilogy just came out for PS3, its a really good deal. Its basically a linear and combat centric AC with no stealth elements. And the Sands of Time (best game in the series) was directed by the creator of AC. I agree that stealth should be more focused in ac as well. In AC2,I used as much stealth as possible,even though it was more easier to just fight. But I do think it is more focused in AC:B. Well, focused isn't the right word. They gave you a reason to be stealthy. Your ideas can help it become more of a stealth game again. But I hate difficulty as I only play games for the story. Nothing more, nothing less. I would rather keep the illusion that the enemy is fighting me when not. ex:Guard shoots me,but he always misses. I would like certain things harder, as in boss fights to make them epic.
Ezio did brake the creed on a regular basis, but most of it was before he was initiated and became a new assassin. In Brotherhood he kept to the creed more IMO, and only broke it to ensure the survival of the assassins. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I will admit that Ezio did become better in Brotherhood, Im pretty sure the fact that he is recognized as "Ezio the hero of Roma" by a fair amount of people means he is at least breaking the 3rd tennant. I would think that having a whole city know who you are is something that endangers an order filled with killers.

Neelanna
05-03-2011, 10:14 AM
Yeah.. The people that want more stealth in the game are actually the people asking for greater difficulty.
In ACB, there was no fear of discovery. There was no amount of guards that I couldn't take out in a very short amount of time.
Make it so that all the guards actually attack simultaneously. No matter how many are around you, only 1 maybe 2 ever try striking at once. Getting into a fight with more than 3 guards at once should be a near death-sentence.

chaos_deception
05-14-2011, 09:32 AM
A simple solution is to have a Mission Difficulty togle.

Toggled to Easy: Mission Rules and Restrictions are lower.

Stealth Requirement on Stealth based Missions is Optional.

Toggled to Normal.: Mission Rules and Restrictions are in Full Effect.

Stealth on Stealth based Missions
is Mandatory / Required.


That way Gung Ho Rushers can rush in.

And us Stealth Purists can sneak in, Simples.

payrob07
05-14-2011, 09:38 AM
This is why I want fatigue

Chewitt321
05-14-2011, 10:12 AM
Yh but Chaos how do you justify the difficulty settings with the storyline?
I.e. Why would the assassins make it harder for Desmond to find what they are looking for?

AMuppetMatt
05-14-2011, 10:45 AM
The Montferrat (spelling) assassination was by far the highlight of my gaming "career". There was no better moment for me than when I took my hidden blade to him and watching his guards realise too late who I was and what I was about to do.

For those who are arguing against the stealth side, I will direct you to what in truth the entire series SHOULD be based on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z28_jStWyKI

Away from the crowds, striking his target and escaping. Minimal loss of life. Maximum effect. Result? Other than the repetitiveness and the inability to hide in crowds the best game ever.

I'm not saying that we should force the stealth on people, but I think the game needs to go back to it's roots. After all, the only thing wrong with AC1 was the repetitiveness. Had they done AC2 exactly the same as AC1, just with the improved graphics, notoriety system and ability to hide in the crowds (along with a few extra perks like tombs) then it would have been a much better game than it turned out to be. At least in my opinion.

SleezeRocker
05-14-2011, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
Except the whole point of the game was stealth, not to be some super human war machine who takes on 30+ men and wins each time.


Exactly, what is this game, Call of Duty?
:P lol

O6EvolutionIXMR
05-14-2011, 11:08 AM
As someone who has followed the AC series since BEFORE the release of the first game, allow me to bring up a pre-release video of AC1 that I remember watching at the time with Jade Raymond walking us thru a mission:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XKAzX3S1mM

"...Assassin's Creed is not a stealth game. We do have a feature called social stealth. A rule that says that you are hidden as long as you are behaving in a socially acceptable way. But this rule results in a much more fast paced type of gameplay then traditional stealth that is based on staying hidden in shadow, especially since you are trying to blend into the chaos of a crowd in the midst of one the bloodiest wars in history."
-Jade Raymond tells XboxGazetta in Oct 2006
Full Article: http://www.xboxgazette.com/int...sassins_creed_en.php (http://www.xboxgazette.com/interview_assassins_creed_en.php)

O6EvolutionIXMR
05-14-2011, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
And you are the very people ruining this game.

There's a sense of satisfaction, if you manage to assassinate your target being completely stealthy.
Unlike if you just mash your way through picking a fight with every guard in the area.

+1

TorQue1988
05-14-2011, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by O6EvolutionIXMR:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by itsamea-mario:
And you are the very people ruining this game.

There's a sense of satisfaction, if you manage to assassinate your target being completely stealthy.
Unlike if you just mash your way through picking a fight with every guard in the area.

+1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
+2

O6EvolutionIXMR
05-14-2011, 11:35 AM
This is "Assassin's" Creed...not the freakin' Expendables.

tjbyrum1
05-14-2011, 03:09 PM
Why stealth?

Let me tell YOU something. The game is called Assassin's Creed. ASSASSIN'S Creed. You play as an Assassin, an ASSASSIN.

An Assassin and Assassination usually go this direction:

1. Collect Contract
2. Find Information About Contract
3. Find Contract
4. Sneak Towards Contract's Location Covertly
5. Surprise the Contract, Kill Him, Escape

In other words, Assassin's Creed is a stealth game. THAT'S why everyone else wants stealth, simply because it is a STEALTH game.

The game is not about getting a target, rushing in, killing about 100 people, and then running away, slaughtering people who chase and/or hinder you until it says mission complete.

The game is about doing missions as an assassin - in other words using stealth to assassinate a target(s).

In fact, AC Brotherhood even emphasizes this by having the player get 'Full Sync' on missions, because some require you to NOT be detected.

Sure combat is fun and engaging, but that should only be used when necessary, such as in a slip-up or clearing away an entrance.

You seem to think people want Stealth to make the game easier. This is NOT the case. In fact, if you even TRY to do the missions where you 'cannot be detected' you will find the mission is devastatingly more difficult than simply slaughtering about 30 Guards. In other words, Combat is Easier - whereas Stealth is Harder.

The only form of 'killing' an Assassin should have is taking out a Guard at a primary lookout point to further reduce chances of being seen.

That's why.