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Beirut
06-08-2005, 04:25 PM
I read the "Read me" for the new patch at Simhq.com and there is no mention of a Mosquito.

I thought we were getting one.

Oh well... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

BenvZijl
06-08-2005, 04:51 PM
maybe thats an old one? cause i remember Oleg saying the mossie was in it

cow9th
06-08-2005, 04:52 PM
no mossie , besides it got removed a long time ago.
and yes we all recal them saying it was in the next patch, as always they meant the one after the next, or after that........ and so on

Philipscdrw
06-08-2005, 05:41 PM
It will be available in 4.X, be sure.

GoToAway
06-08-2005, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by cow9th:
no mossie , besides it got removed a long time ago.
and yes we all recal them saying it was in the next patch, as always they meant the one after the next, or after that........ and so on Interesting. Would you mind showing where Oleg said this? I'd be very curious to see this since I have beem following all Mossie news since the project was first announced, yet cannot ever recall seeing something like this.

VW-IceFire
06-08-2005, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Beirut:
I read the "Read me" for the new patch at Simhq.com and there is no mention of a Mosquito.

I thought we were getting one.

Oh well... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif
Here we go....lots of people assumed we were getting everything despite the various disclaimers and a variety of warnings.

Was more expected than we got in the aircraft department yes. But the rest of the additions, changes, and so on really make this a new game. We've heard that this is not the end. If it was the end then I'd be mad. But apparently its not...we'll see.

Qbeesh800
06-08-2005, 06:16 PM
No ju 88, do335, tempest.
In fact only 2 new planes: betty, ki100.
I'm not surprised. I was expecting something like this.
Looks like a big joke to me.
Lot of screaming for nothing. Not that i'm dissapointed or something, but why da hell did they tell us stories about huge, mega, almighty patch that will come and will smash us from the earth's surface and blow our ****in eyeballs out?
New clouds? i prefer the old ones. I think old ones fit better to the il2 artistic vision(or something).
fm? no big difference to me, though there's some.
the only good thing: every plane has reflecting canopy glass now. 3d models look completely different with reflecting canopy.
I,ve got only one question: Why so long?

Viper_42
06-08-2005, 06:18 PM
The new things are nice but overall I'm dissapointed it took this long to produce that.

Either way it doesn't matter, the countdown has started for all these games to become obsolete: BF2.

snafu73
06-08-2005, 06:36 PM
Have we got at least the nice shiny red bus?

WTE_Tigger
06-08-2005, 07:21 PM
Yea i thought the Bus was cool! I really been wanting to get that bus and smack it around a bit, check out the handling and see if they modled it correctly, I'll be so dissapointed if i dont get the red bus... I know promises by developers mean nothing and when they give us a list of additions we should all ignore it and just hope maybe 1% of whats on the list will make ot to the patch. Now was the bus promised on the box six months ago? I guess we should be gratfull if we get it. Here's hoping for the bus! Long live the bus...

Frustration showing? Surprise Surprise....

lbhskier37
06-08-2005, 08:30 PM
You guys are right. This is the same **** that has been happening since the original IL2. It seems like the developers spend all their time doing stupid things like fixing bugs, improving flight and damage models, improving graphics, adding maps, and adding features. Then all we end up getting after all our waiting with nothing to do is five or six planes. If the developers had just stuck with the original IL2 graphics, damage model, flight model, and static campaign we would have every plane that ever flew and be able to take off in our F15s from the many bases in Berlin, Crimea, and Smolensk. Thanks again for the poor customer service, you guys need to take a not from Microsoft, now there is a flight sim company!

WTE_Tigger
06-08-2005, 08:56 PM
I am so sick of that line, "it could be worse" whenever someone shows a little annoyance at what is transpiring. It's such a cop-out line you know when somone says your gonna get the reb bus you expect the red bus, and your alowed to be dissapointed when you dont get it, and get a yellow scooter instead.

And given time i might grow to like that yellow scooter and even enjoy it, but don't think I am not going to wonder about what the bus might have been like. It's called being human and wondering about what might have been, because somone build our hope up. But then i guess thats what you get for believing in Santa Clause. Doh how gullible was I.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Riper-Snifle
06-08-2005, 08:59 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/8611...171011772#4171011772 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/8611088572/r/4171011772#4171011772)

This is the thread I believe people got the idea that a Mosquito would be included in the 4.0 patch. It says work in progress and may or may not, so apparently may not won out. Oleg also didn't say it, but it is clear where the assumption comes in for some. I am patient and look forward to anything new Oleg makes, and if he wanted to make an expansion disk like Aces, I would easily fork the money over for it since this sim is leaps and bounds ahead of others and runs smoothly.

WTE_Tigger
06-08-2005, 09:09 PM
Ok fair enuff I am gullible there you go. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

POUT...

Yog_Shoggoth
06-08-2005, 10:27 PM
I'm more interested in the new FM.

Is there an ai claude?

Flying_Nutcase
06-09-2005, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by lbhskier37:
You guys are right. This is the same **** that has been happening since the original IL2. It seems like the developers spend all their time doing stupid things like fixing bugs, improving flight and damage models, improving graphics, adding maps, and adding features.

Until I read further I thought you were being sarcastic.

But you were serious. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

TROOPER117
06-09-2005, 01:47 AM
No Mossie. Check out the sim hq threads on whats available in the patch. Some people have graphics issues etc after DL it!
Ho hum, we shall see shortly.

Regards....Dave S.

BenvZijl
06-09-2005, 01:58 AM
heheheh that what ya get when downloadin unoffical patches http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kernow
06-09-2005, 02:23 AM
I guess it's quite reasonable that there is no mossie in this patch. All I've been waiting for are the ac mentioned in the PF ReadMe (one of which, Betty, is mentioned on the box as flyable), which 'couldn't fit onto the CD' to be released. Seems rather a long time to wait for something that was supposedly complete, but, whatever.

What is less reasonable, and now looks like stupidity, is to ask the community, 'Which ac are you most looking forward to in the coming patch: Ki-100, Avia B-534, B6N, Mossie FB.VI or Mossie B.IV?' Especially if the Mossie FB.VI gets most votes and the B.IV a fair vote also, and you can only come up with the Ki-100.

Apologists, please spare me the excuses for why there is no Mossie, I accept that it isn't done. Given that all development for Il-2/FB/PF(inevitably, I guess) has been prone to delay and unexpected problems, why go offering something you must know you may not be able to deliver? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif They didn't have to pose that particular question, which infers that at least 5 ac will be in the patch.

cow9th
06-09-2005, 02:30 AM
do the morons whining about ppl having the nerve to dare complain that the mosquito was removed, realise it was "REMOVED" not just left out.
it was in the patch not so long ago, now its gone....carrot+stick

ploughman
06-09-2005, 02:34 AM
I like it. I accidentally installed it from a mirror site thinking it was kosher before discovering it'd been leaked. More fool me.

The AI seems to have improved. The FM does feel immediately differrent, as if before you weren't flying through anything (like air) but now you are. The spins you can get into are really rather dramatic, I didn't know a Spitfire could do that. I think the Spit VIII's roll rate has improved but the IXc seems to have gone the other way. The Vc mit 4 20mm rolls like a girder but demolishes things very satisfactorily. I blew up the engine on my 109E4 in under ten seconds, so it's back to 109 school for me. The Betty's pilot seat is on the right hand side which feels really odd, and the tail gunners rotating cupola takes some getting used to. The Mk III goes like **** of a shovel and, if you're like me, you'll be following the Tempests around saying things like "one day, you will be mine."

First impressions are it really is very nice. I t'd be churlish to lament the absence of the Spit XIV etc. I really rather hope we have to buy them, I feel guilty getting all this stuff for free. Thanks Oleg and all involved.

sapre
06-09-2005, 02:41 AM
Originally posted by cow9th:
do the morons whining about ppl having the nerve to dare complain that the mosquito was removed, realise it was "REMOVED" not just left out.
it was in the patch not so long ago, now its gone....carrot+stick
Source?

Flakenstien
06-09-2005, 02:47 AM
I haven't downloaded the bogus patch that so many grabbed yesterday I will await the official, but I must say Kudos to 1C and UBI for some excellent marketing!!! You guys know how to keep someone interested in your product http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif 6 months people have waited, tensions grew high, post were made from above about what might and might not be included, developer updates showed the images of the Mossie and such all giving the impression that this "wait until you see it and you'll be more than happy patch" will full fill your wants and needs, PROPAGANDA! but you know what it worked! everyone is still here amongst the complaints and whines awaiting this patch although since the leak yesterday many now have enough information about what is included and what is not to show that all the hype is just that, propaganda to keep public interest in your sim. Sure you added the play on words to protect your *** when you didn't deliver such items as the Mossie, and other things you talked about nice advertising especially for those who don't read between the lines http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifand with screenshots to boot!

But at the same time while keeping public interest and expectation you have done nothing more than defaced yourself to those of us who supported you, it is already clear that you will be disappointing your fans greatly when you "officially release" this patch, because surly in the amount of time from the leak to the official patch you will not be able to make up for the disappointment that is going to follow.
You in fact have just dug your hole for six months and I'm afraid that as soon as all DL and install this patch you all will fall into it.


You may have just wrote the final chapter to 1c/Maddox games, sad to say.

As I have posted before I love this sim, for it is the best combat sim around, but due to all the blatent propaganda, promises of what might and what might not be, and the constent two weeks and then someone gets sick or something else to keep putting off the release, just utter nonsense I will no longer buy another 1C/UBI product. And the real fact is is that I'm not alone in this thinking, when it comes down to it I think the so called fan boys will agree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Soon all will realize it isnt just a couple of whiners here but the whole community that will feel let down and once that happens there will be no patch to fix that!

WUAF-Biker
06-09-2005, 03:10 AM
We were made to expect more to be included in the addon than what actually is. Remember the various pictures of the Do 335-cockpit and the announcements of 1C working on their own external model for it? I know it was said, sth might or might not be included, but showing that kind of detailed stuff on special planes (yes Mossie too) raises expectations, that now are being missed very badly. I really looked forward to the Do 335. Dont get me wrong, i am not whining about her missing, as the support we get for this sim is still very good, but why artificially raising these kind of expectations, and then not fullfilling them?

Qbeesh800
06-09-2005, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by WUAF-Biker:
We were made to expect more to be included in the addon than what actually is. Remember the various pictures of the Do 335-cockpit and the announcements of 1C working on their own external model for it? I know it was said, sth might or might not be included, but showing that kind of detailed stuff on special planes (yes Mossie too) raises expectations, that now are being missed very badly. I really looked forward to the Do 335. Dont get me wrong, i am not whining about her missing, as the support we get for this sim is still very good, but why artificially raising these kind of expectations, and then not fullfilling them?

i ask myself the same question

csThor
06-09-2005, 03:28 AM
If people think something's in the very next patch just because they see some fancy screenshots they can't be helped, anyway. The screenshots can only show what is in the making, but they don't tell when something is going to be released.

The keyword here is self-delusion. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Beirut
06-09-2005, 03:38 AM
As I said at the start of the thread, I don't have the patch, I just saw the read-me at Simhq.com, so other than he no Mosquito thing, I can't say how good the new stuff is.

But I really didn't mean to complain. It's too bad there's no Mosquito ( http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif Waaaaaahhhh!) but I still think this sim is getting five-star after sales service. There are new planes, new maps, new ground objects, little touches here and there and it's all free as far as I'm concerned.

When someone gives you a box of free toys (and has done so several times in the past), it's proper to say thank you and play with the stuff you got instead of *****ing about the stuff you didn't.

I'm grateful and I think the IL2 team is being fantastic!

...but I really was looking forward to a Mosquito. "Sniff"

JG54_Arnie
06-09-2005, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by Flakenstien:
As I have posted before I love this sim, for it is the best combat sim around, but due to all the blatent propaganda, promises of what might and what might not be, and the constent two weeks and then someone gets sick or something else to keep putting off the release, just utter nonsense I will no longer buy another 1C/UBI product. And the real fact is is that I'm not alone in this thinking, when it comes down to it I think the so called fan boys will agree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Soon all will realize it isnt just a couple of whiners here but the whole community that will feel let down and once that happens there will be no patch to fix that!
If anything its the community that creates huge expectations which are based on misread posts from Oleg or Ivan. Appart from the Betty fiasco, nothing was promised in this patch. Oleg said that there were some flyables they are working on that will probably make it into the sim at some point.
About a month or little more ago he announced the next patch with a new FM and some fixes and the promised Betty, nothing more. So this is what we are getting.
I think this community has a big problem when it comes to reading posts the wrong way. People normally have this problem already, but this community is very good at blowing things out of proportion. We should be just relaxing, enjoying the game as it is and respectfully trying to give feedback to Oleg about any mallfunctions that might be found in the game. But people are screaming chaos and mayhem about things that are taken from context.

You might realise that this new FM is quite different from what we have seen so far, it would, and I suspect did, need a lot of testing to get all planes properly working with this new FM. How can you be dissapointed with so many cool flyables already in the game and a much better FM? Especially when you realise you are basing your expectations on the rumours and so called "promises" that float around here way too much.

AerialTarget
06-09-2005, 04:15 AM
Originally posted by Qbeesh800:
No ju 88, do335, tempest.
In fact only 2 new planes: betty, ki100.
I'm not surprised. I was expecting something like this.
Looks like a big joke to me.
Lot of screaming for nothing. Not that i'm dissapointed or something, but why da hell did they tell us stories about huge, mega, almighty patch that will come and will smash us from the earth's surface and blow our ****in eyeballs out?
New clouds? i prefer the old ones. I think old ones fit better to the il2 artistic vision(or something).
fm? no big difference to me, though there's some.
the only good thing: every plane has reflecting canopy glass now. 3d models look completely different with reflecting canopy.
I,ve got only one question: Why so long?

If you didn't fly on noob mode, you might have noticed that the flight model just might be completely different. Unless, of course, we're not getting the new flight model in this patch, in which case your whining would be justified. For it is the flight model change that will make it a "mega" patch, not imagined flyable aircraft or anything as small like that.

The IL-2 series, as much as I don't get along with it because of the large amount of sometimes deliberate unrealism, has just about the best support I've seen in a game. Game companies owe the customers bug fixes. I also feel that Maddox Games owes the customers flight model corrections and things like that, since the game is overhyped and advertised as being so realistic, blah blah blah. However, all of the new features, aircraft, and other goodies are all freebies, and don't need to be. In fact, even with my feeling that realism corrections should be free, I would pay five hundred dollars to have the general and specific flight models be made completely accurate.

sapre
06-09-2005, 04:34 AM
SO, SHOULD I download this leaked patch?
Or should I wait for the "official one" coming supposedly coming out next week?

csThor
06-09-2005, 05:17 AM
Waiting for 4.01 is probably wiser. I don't know what kind of connection you have, but wasting time/traffic for something that'll be outdated some time next week doesn't sound too wise, either http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Flakenstien
06-09-2005, 05:19 AM
Originally posted by JG54_Arnie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flakenstien:
As I have posted before I love this sim, for it is the best combat sim around, but due to all the blatent propaganda, promises of what might and what might not be, and the constent two weeks and then someone gets sick or something else to keep putting off the release, just utter nonsense I will no longer buy another 1C/UBI product. And the real fact is is that I'm not alone in this thinking, when it comes down to it I think the so called fan boys will agree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Soon all will realize it isnt just a couple of whiners here but the whole community that will feel let down and once that happens there will be no patch to fix that!
If anything its the community that creates huge expectations which are based on misread posts from Oleg or Ivan. Appart from the Betty fiasco, nothing was promised in this patch. Oleg said that there were some flyables they are working on that will probably make it into the sim at some point.
About a month or little more ago he announced the next patch with a new FM and some fixes and the promised Betty, nothing more. So this is what we are getting.
I think this community has a big problem when it comes to reading posts the wrong way. People normally have this problem already, but this community is very good at blowing things out of proportion. We should be just relaxing, enjoying the game as it is and respectfully trying to give feedback to Oleg about any mallfunctions that might be found in the game. But people are screaming chaos and mayhem about things that are taken from context.

You might realise that this new FM is quite different from what we have seen so far, it would, and I suspect did, need a lot of testing to get all planes properly working with this new FM. How can you be dissapointed with so many cool flyables already in the game and a much better FM? Especially when you realise you are basing your expectations on the rumours and so called "promises" that float around here way too much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure what your point is? Nowhere did I say that I was promised anything?

promises of what might and what might not be, the word "promises" is refering to the developers misleading updates and screenshots. So yes you were right it all is how people read post the wrong way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif you just did! as 1000s of others like me did. So not only did your post prove what I meant by propaganda(The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.)but also proves how easy it is for one to mis read a post.

Let me use a smaller easier to understand word, misleading.

The way developers wrote updates and placed screenshots was exactly that misleading, it read how it read, and some read it differently. Just like you did in my post above. Playing with words of "might be", "WIP", screenshots and "two weeks" is just that, not misread but misleading.
They would have been better off not to use propaganda tactics to "satisfy" the masses, build up hope etc, but they did and this is the outcome.

Also I never complained about missing aircraft and the likes my post was about misleading information not the game itself, but the games the developers and marketers used to keep people interested in this sim, it is unethical to say the least.

And the sad thing is they didnt need to hype things up to keep people interested, these forums and online rooms are proof enough that there is great interest in this sim. But in fact they are letting people down by thier own actions, self destruction would be the proper term http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

masaker2005
06-09-2005, 05:37 AM
I'am very dissapointed... so long did we wait for almost nothing... two weeks... I'am asking you why?!

LEBillfish
06-09-2005, 05:44 AM
http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~pkapoor/wambulance.jpg

WUAF-Biker
06-09-2005, 05:48 AM
I´m exactly with you on that, Flak.
It´s not about what is in the patch or not, it´s about what expectations were raised about what will be in it or not. The so called De. Updates were in fact sort of misleading...

Anyway, i guess the patch will be great. As i dont have it yet, i´m looking forward to it. Although i was crossing my fingers for 6 months now, that the Do 335 will be in.... they´re aching since at least 3 months now...LOL

Bremspropeller
06-09-2005, 06:05 AM
The Mossie will have been added by 6.3X - be sure ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

JG54_Arnie
06-09-2005, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by Flakenstien:
Not sure what your point is? Nowhere did I say that I was promised anything?

The word "promises" is refering to the developers misleading updates and screenshots. So yes you were right it all is how people read post the wrong way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif you just did! as 1000s of others like me did. So not only did your post prove what I meant by propaganda(The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.)but also proves how easy it is for one to mis read a post.

Let me use a smaller easier to understand word, misleading.

The way developers wrote updates and placed screenshots was exactly that misleading, it read how it read, and some read it differently. Just like you did in my post above. Playing with words of "might be", "WIP", screenshots and "two weeks" is just that, not misread but misleading.
They would have been better off not to use propaganda tactics to "satisfy" the masses, build up hope etc, but they did and this is the outcome.

Also I never complained about missing aircraft and the likes my post was about misleading information not the game itself, but the games the developers and marketers used to keep people interested in this sim, it is unethical to say the least.

And the sad thing is they didnt need to hype things up to keep people interested, these forums and online rooms are proof enough that there is great interest in this sim. But in fact they are letting people down by thier own actions, self destruction would be the proper term http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

How do you interpret those WIP screens then? As promises no? It didnt say any date near the screens of the Mosquito. The fact that its coming will be more certain then, but when isnt told. Be happy its gonna come at some point.
If this isnt your complaint what is? People ask Oleg to post updates, back than he did and now you are complaining about him posting updates?

Oleg promised new FM and is giving it to us.
Where are you basing your claims of the use of propaganda for? Of a few screens of a mosquito, Do-335 and Avia? Obviously those are in the works dont you think?
Because pretty much all dev updates show screens of features that made it into this patch. New maps, new clouds, ground objects, new airbases.
I fail to see where Oleg has been misleading people, and as I understand it, we can look forward to a mosquito and such in another update.

There have been updates of BOB also, are you not very upset that its not out yet?

IMO you are overrating the meaning of those updates. They are there to show us the cool stuff they are working on, certainly it doesnt provide us with any specific time of arrival? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

csThor
06-09-2005, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by WUAF-Biker:
I´m exactly with you on that, Flak.
It´s not about what is in the patch or not, it´s about what expectations were raised about what will be in it or not. The so called De. Updates were in fact sort of misleading...

Anyway, i guess the patch will be great. As i dont have it yet, i´m looking forward to it. Although i was crossing my fingers for 6 months now, that the Do 335 will be in.... they´re aching since at least 3 months now...LOL

No - the only thing that was misleading were your own overblown expectations. If you check the last 5 pages of development updates you'll clearly see the distinction between what was already in the game and what is still WiP. The WiP-Shots are made from 3DS Max which can be easily recognized by that lightblue background.

Some folks here were either not really familiar with the process of adding stuff to the game (read= how long it takes) or they were wilfully obtuse and were reading things into these development updates, things they wanted to believe. Self-delusion - as I said. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

jarink
06-09-2005, 09:23 AM
The more I think about all the patch misunderstandings, the more I wonder how much of these misunderstandings may be attributed to the fact that English is a 2nd language for pretty much everyone at 1C. I speak both English and Russian (well, sorta, it's been awhile) and can say from personal experience how difficult it can be to translate one's exact meaning and intentions into another language.

Let's not forget societal differences, too. Oleg grew up during the Soviet era, where people pretty much had to do with whatever they got, no matter what may have been promised or hinted at earlier. (How many 5 Year Plans were actually fulfilled?) Russians tend to be more fatalistic than westerners (especially Americans) and more willing to accept things as they happen rather than trying to change what they really have no control over.

I'm not trying to be an apologist, I just think this is something that should be taken into consideration whenever reading something posted by Oleg.

VF_12_Bostimax
06-09-2005, 10:16 AM
Hey ,
Long time lurker-first time poster...at least in this forum. IMHO, we should be glad that we get patches at all. Honestly, If I were running the eshow, and had people complaining they wway they do, I would have said bullocks to the ungreatful. I also would charge for the bigger patches. We get great service from Maddox games, and there is no way around that. It takes time to create new planes that everyone seems to want. 1C is working on a completely diiferent game, so we are lucky to get what we get. THose who appreciate what oleg and CoO has done will continue to do so, and those who complain will continue to do so, for you will never be happy. Like I said, If I were running 1C-I would have told you a while ago to that unless you have something constructive to say-keep it to yourself. Luckily I don't run the show.
Bostimax

VF_12_Bostimax
06-09-2005, 10:25 AM
After reading some of the other posts again, I decided that waht 1C should do is never post another update sso that those people out there who are ungreatful can't get their hopes up when the see something in the WIP page. THat and I also think that the whiners should try to model a plane. Go ahead and give it a try, takes a bit doesn't it.
Bosti

Liquid-Koshed
06-09-2005, 10:48 AM
Remember the online poll? I think it was something like 45% for the mossie, the enthusiasm for the Tempest and mossie is obvious to any body with a few brain cells and wouldn€t have gone unnoticed perhaps they decided to save it for bob or maybe a future patch ?
For me the 4 patch has bolstered my enthusiasm in this sim, now for me at least it has a real feel of quality about it acknowledging the amount of work that has been put in to it..blah ..blah..blah

crazyivan1970
06-09-2005, 11:02 AM
Read this thread again: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/8471088572

And please point out where exactly does it say that all those planes or some of them will be included into 4.0 ... sigh

Grue_
06-09-2005, 11:08 AM
This thread clearly demonstrates the four personality types depicted by Gary Larson.

1) The glass is half full http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
2) The glass is half empty http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
3) Half full... No! Wait! Half empty!... No, half... What was the question? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
4) Hey! I ordered a cheeseburger! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Which one are you?

snafu73
06-09-2005, 11:22 AM
Well it depends how the glass got to hold half of it's capacity in the first place. If it's just been filled to the halfway point then it's half full, if you've just drank the top half then it's half empty. Simple really!

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Simple, mother nature invented the egg hundreds of millions of years before the chicken.

goshikisen
06-09-2005, 11:24 AM
The content of the patch has been, more or less, common knowledge since the first beta readme was leaked. I think the Buffalo 1 has been added in the meantime. Maps, FM, new aircraft... I'd say Oleg has been more than generous.

My only gripe is the lack of information on what will happen to many of the great models still out there. Mossie, Ju88, Japanese aircraft... many people spent hours and hours building these aircraft. I don't care about waiting for it... I'd just like to know if we'll ever see them. If the answer is "no" then that is fine... but isn't it better to tell us sooner as opposed to getting people's hopes up and then seeing angry posts at some later date?

Regards, Goshikisen.

Flakenstien
06-09-2005, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by JG54_Arnie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Flakenstien:
Not sure what your point is? Nowhere did I say that I was promised anything?

The word "promises" is refering to the developers misleading updates and screenshots. So yes you were right it all is how people read post the wrong way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif you just did! as 1000s of others like me did. So not only did your post prove what I meant by propaganda(The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.)but also proves how easy it is for one to mis read a post.

Let me use a smaller easier to understand word, misleading.

The way developers wrote updates and placed screenshots was exactly that misleading, it read how it read, and some read it differently. Just like you did in my post above. Playing with words of "might be", "WIP", screenshots and "two weeks" is just that, not misread but misleading.
They would have been better off not to use propaganda tactics to "satisfy" the masses, build up hope etc, but they did and this is the outcome.

Also I never complained about missing aircraft and the likes my post was about misleading information not the game itself, but the games the developers and marketers used to keep people interested in this sim, it is unethical to say the least.

And the sad thing is they didnt need to hype things up to keep people interested, these forums and online rooms are proof enough that there is great interest in this sim. But in fact they are letting people down by thier own actions, self destruction would be the proper term http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

How do you interpret those WIP screens then? As promises no? It didnt say any date near the screens of the Mosquito. The fact that its coming will be more certain then, but when isnt told. Be happy its gonna come at some point.
If this isnt your complaint what is? People ask Oleg to post updates, back than he did and now you are complaining about him posting updates?

Oleg promised new FM and is giving it to us.
Where are you basing your claims of the use of propaganda for? Of a few screens of a mosquito, Do-335 and Avia? Obviously those are in the works dont you think?
Because pretty much all dev updates show screens of features that made it into this patch. New maps, new clouds, ground objects, new airbases.
I fail to see where Oleg has been misleading people, and as I understand it, we can look forward to a mosquito and such in another update.

There have been updates of BOB also, are you not very upset that its not out yet?

IMO you are overrating the meaning of those updates. They are there to show us the cool stuff they are working on, certainly it doesnt provide us with any specific time of arrival? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dude I don't have the time to draw you a picture, your mis interperting my post just like you are accusing the masses here of doing with the "updates".

Liquid-Koshed
06-09-2005, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Beirut:
I read the "Read me" for the new patch at Simhq.com and there is no mention of a Mosquito.

I thought we were getting one.

Oh well... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif
------------------------------------------------
ok ill come clean im a mossie fan ..i feel your pain http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

http://www.simadventures.com/lightningstrike.jpg

aminx
06-09-2005, 12:02 PM
JESUS!!!!From now on i'll consult NIXON,Kissinger and the Syrian secret service before jumping to conclusions on what Oleg really means when he gives us updates on the various forums.
aminx

One13
06-09-2005, 01:20 PM
Found this on sukhoi.ru-
http://uk.geocities.com/peter.squire3@btopenworld.com/sukhoi-mosquito.bmp

Rickshaven
06-09-2005, 01:28 PM
Why not just wait fort the real patch. Man there are some ungrateful people on here. All the work these peope do and it is not good enough for the spoiled brats. Its a GAME not real life. Allot of you don't deserve the time and effort Oleg and his team invest !!!!!

cow9th
06-09-2005, 01:53 PM
humm dont know why i wrote my rather unfortunate and inflamatary reply.

anyway the mossie was in it got removed recently thats a shame maybe they broke it with the new flight model.

no one promised it would be in however.
im just dissapointed

Beirut
06-09-2005, 06:32 PM
As the bonehead who started this thread I wanted to point out again that I am not complaning. A Mosquito would have been great, but that's life. (Mind you, why there's a Betty is beyond me. I'm sure some people love it, but it's a waste of meg-power to me.)

I just got the 4.0 patch and installed it. (First time I ever got a leaked patch. This is like smoking cigarettes behind the school. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif) I think it's great. The objects are great, the new planes are good fun and the Murmansk map is fantastic!!! I still have to try out the new clouds.

I'm not complaning even one little bit. I think the new stuff is great fun and I'm thanking the crew for handing out the free toys and I'm looking forward to lots of fun flying around with this great sim that has such excellent customer support. Nice to have a flight sim that gets new life breathed into it every once in a while.

For my part, I don't see why people are still complaining as we're now into our fifth or sixth patch full of free toys for this sim. Talk about getting your money's worth! What other game of any kind gets this kind of after sales service?

snafu73
06-09-2005, 06:43 PM
I was starting to convince myself the patch/addon was taking longer than predicted because they were trying to cram a lot in - to make it the crowning glory of a great series of games. when you see development pics over the months dotted around without any definate statement of intent coming from the developers it's reasonable to assume they're intended for the patch, now because of a further lack of information the rumour mill is in overdrive again and people are starting to say now all the unfinished stuff is going to end up in the shops... i would'nt call it deceitful but it's not exactly being straight with the customers either. I'm more than grateful at what we've received over the years, both payed for and free but I'd prefer it if somebody came out and let us know certain things. Maybe it's the case that the Il-2 series is at the end of it's life and virtually all resources are being directed at BOB.

Having said that I'm hanging on for the official release of the patch like I think everybody should have done, so I'll reserve my total judgement. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

WUAF-Biker
06-09-2005, 11:42 PM
To make this VERY clear (as it seems everbody who says sth that might be understandable as criticism to the information politics about updates and stuff is automatically a "whiner" with overblown expectations...):

I dont care if the Mossie, Do 335 or anything else are in the patch/addon or not. D*** it, i would pay for them if they were to be included in some AEP-2 package or whatever,... it just doesnt bother me. What bothers me is the lack of information. If the Dev Updates would say, ok this plane you see here is WIP and it will be included in a pay-for Addon, or it will be included in some future free patch, or even the planes are too complicated to be included in the sim to meet its high standards.... well thats all i want. Some real hard information. But as I understand, 4.01 is most likely the last official patch/addon for PF, as Oleg and his team have all hands full of work with BoB and dont have enough time to stick with PF. Seems like the planes will not be included in 4.01. So what happens with them?
Maybe one must be a little Know-it-all....

And yes, i know what it means to code a piece of software and make changes all the time and include new stuff in it that has to be tested hunderds of times before it can be released etc., as i am working in software business too.

But that´s about enough now. Everyone has his opinion, so stick to your´s, i´ll stick to mine.

Still, i love the whole IL2 series, for just what it is: the best sim i ever played, and i thank Oleg and his whole team for creating it and releasing addons at all. And surely 4.01 will be cool stuff, like it with every patch. It´s just the information politics i have a problem with. And maybe i´m just a little disapointed about the DO... *sigh*

Yog_Shoggoth
06-10-2005, 12:23 AM
Weren't you people the same ones who were complaining abot the LACK of screenshots a couple of months ago?

HamishUK
06-10-2005, 06:09 AM
Same old idiots whinging.

Read Ivans post!

The Mossie et-all will appear in a future patch / add-on for christs sake.

What makes me laugh is we are given free aircraft...remember that word free! You have not been charged to DL any of these unlike some other games I know of!

Get a grip children!

Beaufort-RAF
06-10-2005, 06:38 AM
I've been hoping for the Mosquito but know full well it hasn't been 'promised'.

If it's included in the future then great, but it just worries me it won't be.

Given how poor the Britsh plane set is it would be mean if they decided not to include it.

If there is another add-on with the Mossie, Ju88, Tempest etc then I don't think many people will mind waiting.

Just some official info would be nice so we can stop wondering & arguing about it.

VW-IceFire
06-10-2005, 06:47 AM
I warned you guys....but nobody listened.

Never said we were getting squat for sure. You guys made everything up and took it as truth.

This is where a bit more communication would have supressed all these people who rumored themselves into reality and were suddenly disappointed.

JG54_Arnie
06-10-2005, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by Flakenstien:
Dude I don't have the time to draw you a picture, your mis interperting my post just like you are accusing the masses here of doing with the "updates".
Sorry for wasting your time, but enlighten me as to what I misread please? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Probably bad choice of words when I said that this community is ..... , should have said part of the community.

Philipscdrw
06-10-2005, 06:57 AM
People, the Mosquito, Tempest cockpit, Claude, Etc, Etc, are probably still WIP. My guess is that they aren't complete yet, or they're being saved for AEP-2. You were shown a screenshot of a WIP aircraft, that doesn't mean that aircraft will be present in the very next patch. (Note: I don't work for 1C or Ubi, this is my assumption.)

You make me sick! You're given a free gift. With the exception of the Betty cockpit, we're not entitled to anything new from 1C and Ubi. But they've given us an entirely new flight model, new maps, some more flyables and AI, more ground objects, and a host of bug fixes and tweaks. There's no reason for them to do that. Any other company wouldn't do that, except to release a payware add-on at 2/3rds of the cost of the original. Instead of gratitude you respond like spoiled two-year-olds. I'll stop here because this block of text is hurting your brains.

Wait about a bit. I expect AEP-2 to be announced within a month.


Originally posted by Yog_Shoggoth:
Weren't you people the same ones who were complaining abot the LACK of screenshots a couple of months ago?

Haha, that's a very astute observation!

aminx
06-10-2005, 10:02 AM
PF remains a half backed potatoe.
aminx

snafu73
06-10-2005, 10:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Yog_Shoggoth:
Weren't you people the same ones who were complaining abot the LACK of screenshots a couple of months ago?

Yawn, yawn, yawn. I dont think I've seen anybody moaning about lack of screenies, only lack of information. You have to trawl the forum and peice together the clues like Sherlock Holmes.

NetDaemon
06-10-2005, 10:30 AM
This is how I see the 4.0 patch issue:

Flyable Betty (what was owed)
+ 2 new flyables (Ki-100-Ko and Buffalo Mk.1)
+ Several new flyable variants (2 new Spits Mk.V, P-38L late, Mustang Mk.III, Buffalo Mk.I)
+ 3 new maps (Kurland, Murmansk, Singapore)
+ Tons of ground objects
+ New FM
+ New Clouds
+ Bug fixes and several bonus stuff
------------------------------------
= The same ungrateful bastards.


Hope Oleg pulls the plug off PF after the 4.0 patch, we don´t deserve more.

Grue_
06-10-2005, 11:15 AM
The Betty whiners appear to have moved on to the Mosquito.

Beirut
06-10-2005, 12:15 PM
I'm more of a Lancaster whiner, but I'll snivel a bit for a Mosquito. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BUT I'M NOT COMPLAINING!!! I think the patch is great. I love the V2s and the Murmansk map is fantastic. I think we're being very well treated by the IL2 staff. All I have to say is...

Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Kernow
06-10-2005, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Read this thread again: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/8471088572

And please point out where exactly does it say that all those planes or some of them will be included into 4.0 ... sigh

Oleg is quite clear in the dev update that it might or might not be in.

But the wording of that poll infered that the 5 planes mentioned would be 'in' (IIRC and I've tried to find where old polls are kept, but couldn't check it).

Had the poll asked 'which ac would you most like to see' or 'which of these do you most like' that would have been fine, as there's no implication that anything would be in the patch. However, IIRC, and I looked at it carefully at the time because it implied the Mossie would be 'in', the poll asked, 'which of these ac are you most looking forward to in the patch?' Now, if I remember wrong, then that's my fault. But that wording implies that those 5 ac will be in the patch; how can you look forward to something in a patch if it isn't in the patch?

And if none of those ac could be guaranteed, surely it was an irresponsible, if not stupid, choice of words? Even more so when you note that the Ki-100 was the only 'in-house' contender (others all 3rd party), so was the only one 1C/Ubi etc had any control over. I suppose if the Ki had won the poll by a large margin they'd have got away with it, but there was no guarantee that it would - and it didn't.

I don't care when the patch comes out; the game is good enough right now. Watching the rush for the leaked patch was amusement enough too.(Although I do wonder why the finished ac which couldn't fit onto the CD should take so long to be released?).

I'll wait as long as it takes, but if anyone can't see why some expectations were raised they're being particularly obtuse. That doesn't excuse some of the more childish 'whiner' posts, but not all the 'whiners' are being unreasonable (and not all the 'fanboys' are total brown-nosers either).

Ah, patience... a tried and tested virtue - very tried http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Aero_Shodanjo
06-10-2005, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
Wait about a bit. I expect AEP-2 to be announced within a month.


Unfortunately there will be people that still complains about what should and shouldnt in it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Capt._Tenneal
06-10-2005, 01:55 PM
With the new FM, for the AI too, I'm getting 250+ new planes in the game with 4.0 . I'll be too busy trying out the new toys, I can wait for the Mossie .

Liquid-Koshed
06-10-2005, 02:03 PM
A couple of guys say the would like to have seen a mossie in the patch ...cope with it get over it already perhaps they like the mossie ...jeez

JG54_Arnie
06-10-2005, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Kernow:
But the wording of that poll infered that the 5 planes mentioned would be 'in' (IIRC and I've tried to find where old polls are kept, but couldn't check it).

Had the poll asked 'which ac would you most like to see' or 'which of these do you most like' that would have been fine, as there's no implication that anything would be in the patch. However, IIRC, and I looked at it carefully at the time because it implied the Mossie would be 'in', the poll asked, 'which of these ac are you most looking forward to in the patch?' Now, if I remember wrong, then that's my fault. But that wording implies that those 5 ac will be in the patch; how can you look forward to something in a patch if it isn't in the patch?

Hmm, that's a good point. Maybe 1C and UBI need to work on their communication on that sort of thing? I didnt check all those polls, but I do remember something like this.. that is entirely different that just posting pictures.. also the fact that features in this patch are on the Italian page named Patch3.04 like the clouds and new maps. I recon 1C doesnt put the content on those pages, but someone overthere (at UBI) isnt really paying attention or something.

crazyivan1970
06-10-2005, 03:18 PM
Which polls are you guys reffering to?

JG54_Arnie
06-10-2005, 04:49 PM
The ones held at the pacific-fighters main page, there's a new one ever so often, or not so often http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif A while back it did have a poll about what planes one would like to see in the patch. Not sure about the exact wording, but I think it did say something like that. There's one about consoles now.

Nephandus74
06-10-2005, 06:55 PM
I definitely start to wonder, why people always start whining and complaining.... it's almost like a Bhean Sidhes family reunion (for those who are lacking there: Bhean Sidhe = Banshee, Ghost whining and howling.... Irish mythology).
It is really disgusting. For how many years is there IL2? And honestly, how many flight sims have 5 CD's (officials, 3rd Party not counting) nowadays? How many of those get so many updates to improve. And as BoB is already in work, there will be one more (I am pretty sure, that it can be integrated into IL-2 as well.

First of all, we are talking about a creative product. The designers have worked hard and apparently still are. It is natural, that not every expectation and taste are met, but that's life. They are doing the best they can and I think, they are doing a good job there.

Only thing I can say about these whiners: If you don't like it, make it better and do it yourself... What? You can't? Then shut the f*** up and get a life.

Tailgator
06-10-2005, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Grue_:
The Betty whiners appear to have moved on to the Mosquito.

um no, the betty whiners are out flying their bettys. some of those whining for the mosquito are the ones that told the betty whiners to stfu and enjoy what youve already got a few weeks ago