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View Full Version : New member, one suggestion for developers...

pugo3
04-08-2008, 01:16 PM
I've had Il-2 1946 for a little over 6 months now and I highly recommend it to all, very fun and well done. I have read some postings on this forum and understand that no further development is planned for Il-2 as new projects are underway, all good. However, may I suggest a few things to the developers of the software and all combat simms for that matter regarding the A.I. aircraft characteristics, often discussed here. I'm not able to access online play at present so I fight the A.I. aircraft for now.
The one drawback I've most lamented is that if an opposing aircraft possesses superior performance, it without exception will not engage in a direct dogfight with your aircraft, rather it employs stand-off tactics and only engages in bounce and zoom' maneuvers'. Granted, these tactics was employed on occasion but not in every combat as the combat accounts clearly indicate. After all, these were young men full of adrenalin and full of fight, not to mention having limited fuel and therefore time in the combat zone. As the authors of the software often mention historical accuracy as one of there aims, this is an obvious failure in that regard. But more to the point it takes away the main aspect of why most of us purchase the simms, to mix it up, to see how the various aircraft would fare against any other aircraft. As an example, if I fly the F6F Hellcat, no Japanese aircraft will dogfight except the A6M5 Zero, a great loss and serious defect of an otherwise excellent simm. The P-51 and P-47 simply will not dogfight no matter the aircraft I fly, a great disappointment and again not in any way supported by the historical record. And the point is to have fun! I think most would agree that long chases or creative bounce avoidance become dreary and wearisome pretty quickly.

A simple improvement that would greatly enhance any future offerings would be to offer the option in the control set up for "occasional stand-off" of "mix it up". Again, I highly recommend the software to anyone, just want to help the developers improve the breed in future offerings. Thank you to the developers for all their work, look forward to the continuing improvements in future endeavors!

K_Freddie
04-08-2008, 01:32 PM
Welcome.. and you're too late for suggestions regarding this generation of sim. Oleg and 1C are not working on this game any more. they've moved onto the next generation - BoB.

But yes, this is the tactic used by the superior AI. But you can use your own tactics to counter-act this...

When the booger flies away, turn a quick 90 degs to port or starboard and back to the original course. Yon AI will 'see' and turn to fight. You can either go head on with der AI (not recommended) or turn to give it a deflection shot (they're completely useless at this), OR better..
Drag it down with you until your speeds are about the same, do some light evasive moves and then latch onto it's tail as it tries to get away...

Simple. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I spent an hour doing this to a P51D (1945) in my FW190A9, and was determined to bag the booger. I got it by whipping off it's left wing when it got too close.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Lurch1962
04-08-2008, 04:21 PM
Here's something I'll have to try... set the dotrange parameters to see if they have any effect on the AI. Right now, as soon as the distant enemy specks pop into view, they will immediately go for altitude if their planes are better for BnZ. It's as though they have bionic vision and can determine the class of plane I'm flying.

If my crate's on par with theirs or better, they'll stay at the same alt and bore straight in.

I'm wondering, if I set lower ID range values will the AI then have to wait longer before knowing what plane I'm flying? Has anyone done experiments in this area?

stalkervision
04-08-2008, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by pugo3:
I've had Il-2 1946 for a little over 6 months now and I highly recommend it to all, very fun and well done. I have read some postings on this forum and understand that no further development is planned for Il-2 as new projects are underway, all good. However, may I suggest a few things to the developers of the software and all combat simms for that matter regarding the A.I. aircraft characteristics, often discussed here. I'm not able to access online play at present so I fight the A.I. aircraft for now.
The one drawback I've most lamented is that if an opposing aircraft possesses superior performance, it without exception will not engage in a direct dogfight with your aircraft, rather it employs stand-off tactics and only engages in bounce and zoom' maneuvers'. Granted, these tactics was employed on occasion but not in every combat as the combat accounts clearly indicate. After all, these were young men full of adrenalin and full of fight, not to mention having limited fuel and therefore time in the combat zone. As the authors of the software often mention historical accuracy as one of there aims, this is an obvious failure in that regard. But more to the point it takes away the main aspect of why most of us purchase the simms, to mix it up, to see how the various aircraft would fare against any other aircraft. As an example, if I fly the F6F Hellcat, no Japanese aircraft will dogfight except the A6M5 Zero, a great loss and serious defect of an otherwise excellent simm. The P-51 and P-47 simply will not dogfight no matter the aircraft I fly, a great disappointment and again not in any way supported by the historical record. And the point is to have fun! I think most would agree that long chases or creative bounce avoidance become dreary and wearisome pretty quickly.

A simple improvement that would greatly enhance any future offerings would be to offer the option in the control set up for "occasional stand-off" of "mix it up". Again, I highly recommend the software to anyone, just want to help the developers improve the breed in future offerings. Thank you to the developers for all their work, look forward to the continuing improvements in future endeavors!

If your looking for an excellent ww 2 flight sim that really has that element you want buy this one...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain_II:_Wings_of_Victory

shockwave bob forum..

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

SeaFireLIV
04-08-2008, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by pugo3:

The one drawback I've most lamented is that if an opposing aircraft possesses superior performance, it without exception will not engage in a direct dogfight with your aircraft, rather it employs stand-off tactics and only engages in bounce and zoom' maneuvers'. Granted, these tactics was employed on occasion but not in every combat as the combat accounts clearly indicate. After all, these were young men full of adrenalin and full of fight, not to mention having limited fuel and therefore time in the combat zone. As the authors of the software often mention historical accuracy as one of there aims, this is an obvious failure in that regard. But more to the point it takes away the main aspect of why most of us purchase the simms, to mix it up, to see how the various aircraft would fare against any other aircraft. !

Interesting.

You do have a point. If you ever go Online, the main majority of Human pilots will fly and fight just like AI, refusing to dogfight superior dogfighting aircraft. BUT about 1 out of every 10 pilots, depending where you go, will actually try dogfighting you because of a lack of experience or patience\over confidence.

Anyway...

This is as a result of forumers complaining (in the early days) about AI, especially B&Zers not using correct tactics because, before, all planes would basically dogfight, no matter what the type. It really wasnt very realistic being able to shoot down every 109 in an La5fn cos they just kept trying to outtturn in a losing manouever.

Oleg changed this so that we actually saw the AI used correct, learned tactics. Now while this means that AI aircraft fight to their strengths, it could mean that you never see AI make mistakes like turn fighting when they shouldnt.

However, have you tried fighting aircraft on the lowest AI level -rookie? I havent tried it for a long while, but I do play offline campaign a lot and Im sure Ive had the odd 109 try and turn fight with me and ultimately dieing.

Oh yea, BOBWOV has excellent AI, but again, I just do the campaign. In campaign, AI will mostly use correct (non-suicidal ) tactics, but there are quick missions which you can set just for dogfighting. im not sure though if you can force them not to use realistic survival tactics though.

Xiolablu3
04-08-2008, 08:03 PM
Pilots in a worse turning aircraft would be stupid to engage in dogfights with better turning aircraft, they would be masscred just like the first pilots who tried to dogfight with the Zero in the early years of WW2.

German pilots on the channel very rarely stuck around to dogfight. They employed better tactics which suited their planes and situation

For example, in 1942 the FW190 outclassed the Spitfire V in everything but turning circle. Therefore if he attempted to dogfight in the 'classic' 'close-in' sense of the word, he would be shot down. They used energy fighting and vertical tactics to dominate the SPitfire V.

If the AI is using enrgy manouvres at last then good on them!

Read Gallands comments in the BOB when Goring suggested he 'got in close' with SPitfires and Hurricanes. He was horrified.

BWaltteri
04-09-2008, 05:31 AM
If you want more kills then just decrease realism.

With 'realistic gunnery' turned off you can wipe off an Idiotenreihe in a straight head-on pass with your superior firepower.