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zugfuhrer
01-31-2006, 12:11 PM
When I test I don€t come close to the top-speed of these aircrafts.

I dont think that a topspeed that is reached after 5 minutes is of interest in combat situations.

Settings: Crimea map 50% fuel automatic pitch for German aircrafts and 100% pitch set for the Spitfire. Altitude 100 m. I trimmed the A/C as good as possible.
Acceleration test radiator open
Spit V: b

200-300 km/h 13 sec
300-400 27 sec
400-470 70 sec
total 110 sec

Spit IX

200-300 15s
300-400 30s
400-480 70s
total 115s (Between 470-480 took a while)

Me 109 G6 (Nose Gun)

200-300 8s
300-400 23s
400-500 120s
total 151 s (Between 470-500 took a while)

FW-A6

200-300 20s
300-400 26s
400-500 62s
total 108s
Acceleration test radiator slots closed (No changes possible for Spit )
FW-A6

200-300 21 sec
300-400 24 sec
400-500 60 sec
overheated after 3 minutes 16 seconds and 520 km/h

Me-109G

200-300 13 sec
300-400 18 sec
400-500 61 sec overheated after two minutes 50 sec and 520 km/h


FW190-D
200-300 24s
300-400 18s
400-500 55s

Started at 500 km/h made a vertical climb measured the highest position and clocked the time it took

Spitfire IX started vertical climb at 1420 m above sea and stalled at 2830 make the Spitfire climb 1410 m on (18 sec)
Fw A6 1140 2370 gives 1230 (19 sec)
G6 1250 2560 gives 1310 (24 sec)
D9 1050 2380 gives 1330 (22 sec)

Although the spit goes 100-200 m higher it is there much faster and out accelerates the others.

Drag measurements

Flew at approximately at 1000 m at a speed of 500 km/h
turned the engine to idle, stayed at the altitude until I reached 200km/h.

Spit IX 34 sec
A6 62 sec
D9 70 sec
G6 46 sec

The spits drag isn€t configured to be low, if not the helix from the propeller is a big drag-producer for German aircrafts
I quote two comparable tests Spit/FW190 A4 made by Soviet Air force and RAAF.

"The FW is better than the spit in all dimensions but the horizontal, where the spit easily comes inside the FW."

It is odd that the spit in this game, got high drag accelerates good and brakes good at the same time.
Have any of you spectators got any tip of how I shall reach higher speed at levelflight?

jugent
01-31-2006, 12:58 PM
That explains why the spit wont overshoot me, when I reduce my throttle to idle in a unsuccesful attempt to make him overshoot me.

Jetbuff
01-31-2006, 04:34 PM
Are those numbers IAS or TAS? You need to find TAS (True AirSpeed) by using the dials in no cockpit view otherwise you will always be off.

ImpStarDuece
01-31-2006, 04:49 PM
I don't think zugfurher tests with cockpit off.

I get VERY different numbers when I test against his figures, even with radiators open.

The-Pizza-Man
01-31-2006, 05:12 PM
Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Are those numbers IAS or TAS? You need to find TAS (True AirSpeed) by using the dials in no cockpit view otherwise you will always be off.

They are at sea level, IAS should be close enough.

3.JG51_Stecher
01-31-2006, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by The-Pizza-Man:
They are at sea level, IAS should be close enough.

Actually it is quite different. Spit IX, 533 TAS, 510 on speedbar. 190A-6, 575 TAS, 550 on speedbar. Zugfuhrer, which Spit V was that? The vanilla one goes 461 at SL, and you got it to 470, and that probably being IAS. Was that possibly the LF Vb?

3.JG51_Stecher
01-31-2006, 05:39 PM
Just as a quick comparison for the Spit IX, I get this.

200-300 10s
300-400 14s
400-500 34s
Total 58s

ImpStarDuece
01-31-2006, 07:42 PM
My numbers

Spitfire IXc

300-350 6s
350-400 8s
400-450 11s
450-500 20s

Total: 45s

FW-190A6

300-350 7s
350-400 9s
400-450 9s
450-500 17s

Total: 42s

Bf-109G6

300-350 6s
350-400 9s
400-450 12s
450-500 22s

Total: 49s

Test criteria were

10m (+/- 5m)
180 hdg
Crimea map
Midday
Clear weather
100% fuel
Auto PP
radiators closed
cockpit off

karost
01-31-2006, 08:29 PM
any process to make
energy retaintion testing

I not sure this way is good or bad

1) make high speed direct line (450-500)km/h at 3000 meter. [and]
2) make turn 180 degree (horizontal or vertical how ever )[How long it take?] [and]
3.1) climb to 4000 metre. [how long it take?] or
3.2) drive to 500 meter. [how long it take?]

any one have a batter process to make energy testing.


by the way : zugfuhrer and ImpStarDuece thanks for your share test data.

S!

zugfuhrer
02-01-2006, 12:59 PM
I tested this on online mission as a coop mission, and hosted it as server.

As I did it on sealevel, the notes are from IAS.
The settings where full realism but speedbar on.
The Spit was a VB 1941 and IXc 1943.

Whe can exchange tracks.

zugfuhrer
02-03-2006, 12:36 PM
Because noone has given me the chance to compare trackfiles I assume that my figures are correct, and the others is an example of people that "can talk the talk, but not walk the walk"

3.JG51_Stecher
02-03-2006, 02:44 PM
PM me your email with what tracks you want.

The-Pizza-Man
02-03-2006, 06:18 PM
Originally posted by 3.JG51_Stecher:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The-Pizza-Man:
They are at sea level, IAS should be close enough.

Actually it is quite different. Spit IX, 533 TAS, 510 on speedbar. 190A-6, 575 TAS, 550 on speedbar. Zugfuhrer, which Spit V was that? The vanilla one goes 461 at SL, and you got it to 470, and that probably being IAS. Was that possibly the LF Vb? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does the Crimean map use standard temp and pressure, 15*C and 29.92"hg? The difference should really be less than 2% if it is. Did you do those tests at 2000'?

Jetbuff
02-03-2006, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
As I did it on sealevel, the notes are from IAS.
You must use TAS from no cockpit view, even at sea-level. I don't know the reason for the discrepancy at 0m but there is one. Sometimes I wonder if the no-cockpit view is ground-speed rather than TAS.

BBB_Hyperion
02-03-2006, 09:55 PM
iirc use crimea 12:00 for testing, 0 isnt 0 cause ground level is shifted and of course look at temperature distribution that gets into air density and tas calculation.

3.JG51_Stecher
02-04-2006, 03:00 AM
I always do the tests over the water of Crimea map, 1200, clear, no wind. Hehe, no I don't do my sea level tests at 2000', more like 5 meters to be exact. As for the speedbar vs TAS readout, remember that the speedbar is not only IAS, but it only goes in 10s, changing when the x0 is reached. Thankfully, the TAS readout is precise. So 510 on the speedbar could mean anything between 510-519 IAS. The difference between IAS and TAS will look even bigger than it actually is if you just use the speedbar.

zugfuhrer
02-04-2006, 09:12 AM
I make this tests for use on online servers, to evaluate the strenghts and weakness for aircrafts, and then is the facts, not the cockpit on, cockpit off settings interestings.

I flew over water and that must be sealevel.

I use the no cockpit view as well. Are your tests done as a quick mission builder or is it done by full mission builder?

"You must use TAS from no cockpit view, even at sea-level."
Clerify this I please.


My email is perca_perca@hotmail.com

Send me you trackfile and some notes about how the test was done.

McCoy1983
02-23-2006, 09:16 AM
hello. i need help

I´m kicked to this server, and i need somebody that help me, please!

thanks

Unknown-Pilot
02-23-2006, 09:36 AM
There has been a thought that the 190 has too little parasitic drag combined with too little thrust. This would result in what we see in terms of excessive E-bleed, and even explain why zugfuhrer saw the Spitfire zoom futher, while the 190 accelerated faster at high speed, and glided so much better.

The RL 190 was supposed to out accelerate the Spitfire but a large margin. This could only come from a better thrust to weight ratio. That should help it in a zoom climb, particularly with increased mass (interia), and higher aspect ration wings (lower induced drag penalty).

So why is it the other way 'round in the game? (somewhat rhetorical question, we know that TnB planes are artificially advantaged in this game, as always)

Anyone have any ideas to test thrust output? Something that would nullify drag? What about runway drag races? Starting from 0 would be about as close to taking drag out of the equation as possible. It would also remove gravity as well, leaving just thrust and inertia.

Unknown-Pilot
02-23-2006, 09:39 AM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
"You must use TAS from no cockpit view, even at sea-level."
Clerify this I please.

He's just saying that the guages/speedbar show a lower speed than the no-cockpit guages, even at 5m above sea level. The no-cockpit guages are TAS, and tend to read about 20kph or so higher than the cockpit guages/speedbar.