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View Full Version : Thank you Oleg and crew for reducing muzzle flashes in PF!



ArgonV
10-19-2004, 11:30 AM
I'm very happy. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

crazyivan1970
10-19-2004, 11:37 AM
i`m happy too, one less 30 pages topic in ORR http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG52Schatten
10-19-2004, 12:44 PM
Well, I don't have PF yet. Hope to get it soon. I've seen screenshots of the new MFs on LW planes & I just want to say for me and on behalf of all of us LW pilots:

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

NegativeGee
10-19-2004, 01:14 PM
Thanks for listening to the flashwhiners (myself included)!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Charos
10-19-2004, 06:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG52Schatten:
Well, I don't have PF yet. Hope to get it soon. I've seen screenshots of the new MFs on LW planes & I just want to say for me and on behalf of all of us LW pilots:

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep just saw them as well, just goes to show that Oleg and Co keep their ear to the Ground and if the Argument is justified and do-able it WILL be done.

I have never seen this level of commitment and support from a game developer before.

All game developers and publishers should be busy takeing notes of the way 1C go about their business.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif * 10^100

Stiglr
10-19-2004, 09:00 PM
I also notice nobody on the dev team came out and admitted they were cartoonish, inaccurate and obviously wrong. They just very quietly removed them...after swearing up and down that they couldn't be removed from the IL-2 system without moving heaven and earth. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Later, Oleg will b*tch somewhere that this was another "concession" he was "forced" to make to please everyone who complained. Never once admitting they were WRONG.

Daiichidoku
10-19-2004, 09:35 PM
Thats ok, Stiglr...

The important thing is, they ARE changed, and seem much improved now,

The other important thing is, YOU know they were wrong, and who cares if they speak the words or not...isn't the fact they changed it at all kinda saying so? (unless, as you say, it was bending to whiner's will, hehe)

Im sure IRL there was muzzle flashes under certain conditions, and certain guns that would, could and did have even bigger muzzle flashes than we knew in AFB in the past....but Im also sure there was much much smaller ones, too....Im just glad about this change...I rarely fly cockpit (until I get a better comp, my frmae rates suck), and even less fly LW types, but I would often get a frame rate drop from these flashes, so I glad they're gone!

So I guess at this rate, all the other problems in FB should be resolved around 2020, 2021 or so, hehe

crazyivan1970
10-19-2004, 09:52 PM
You know Stig... sometimes i just want to beat you up, they were changed, be happy... jeezas!!!!

NegativeGee
10-19-2004, 10:29 PM
Hehe, good to see somethings never change Stiglr http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The only problem with the muzzle flashes was they were made with a "one luminosity fits all" approach.

Fehler
10-20-2004, 12:02 AM
A million bucks? Oh My God! It's all in ones! What the hell am I going to do with all these ONES!


hehe We still love you Stiglr...

LEXX_Luthor
10-20-2004, 01:45 AM
What Stiglr is saying is the New Muzzleflash is now better than or at least competitive with TagertWare muzzlefash, and now Stiglr must go back and do more work. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I'd be mad too, having to work extra weekeend.

Tannethalder2.
10-20-2004, 02:32 AM
@stiglr: As far as i understood what Oleg said on the matter, code for lightning was near impossible to change and as far as screenshoots go this hasn't really changed. There is somewhere on the german forum a pic of a FW190A with the "new and small" muzzle flashes yet the fusselage is lit as ever before. So the lightning code wasn't touched at all, i suppose.
Merely they dropped the huge flammethrower Muzzle flash sprites and went for some smaller and more real looking ones. Good choice too my liking.

S!

Russian_Ivan
10-20-2004, 03:56 AM
Thanks to those who downloaded pirated version of PF we might never see BOB... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

dazza9806482
10-20-2004, 04:17 AM
RUSSIAN_IVAN, pf has been released in some european countries. its not necessarily a pirate copy. although otherwise u have a point mate

Gryphonne
10-20-2004, 04:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NegativeGee:
Hehe, good to see somethings never change Stiglr http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The only problem with the muzzle flashes was they were made with a "one luminosity fits all" approach. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Strangely enough this is not the case anymore! The flashes are BIGGER at night. They are the same size as they were. And they have the new size at day. As i understood this was impossible to change. It might tick off a few people here because this was asked for so long (even from the transition Il2 -> FB and again FB -> AEP.)

But enough, they are changed. And i'm happy & sad at the same :|

Have to leave my trusty A4/U1 loadout home http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Regards,

Gryphon

KGr.HH-Sunburst
10-20-2004, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Russian_Ivan:
Thanks to those who downloaded pirated version of PF we might never see BOB... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

uh lol it was in stores here in the Netherlands yesterday ,so its legal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zen--
10-20-2004, 10:37 AM
I've fallen in love with Dora again, I can use the cowl mounted MG's at last!!!

LEXX_Luthor
10-20-2004, 10:43 AM
Okay, at what time of evening do the muzzle flashes jump from "small" to "uber" and what time of morning do the muzzle flashes jumpr from "uber" to "small?" I assume these times depend on summer/winter maps.

DarthBane_
10-20-2004, 11:48 AM
Thank you Sir, game plays much better now.

Tachyon1000
10-20-2004, 01:08 PM
I assume a FB AEP patch will be in works to address this issue. If not, heads will roll.

Tannethalder2.
10-20-2004, 02:44 PM
Changing muzzle flash size: Thats a feature not a bug. Big at nighttime/DUSK/Dawn small at daytime.

As for a patch what FB+AEP Patch?

LEXX_Luthor
10-20-2004, 02:49 PM
Probably not. FP muzzle flash may have required a deep grafix rewrite, if so they won't bother with the ancient obsolete AEP.

Carnage2681
10-20-2004, 02:49 PM
I also want to say Thank You Mr. Maddox !

I can now use my Mk108 and see what I hit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Please never change them back http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Also it very good for my framerate during firing. FB never run so smooth in fights like now

JG53Hunter
10-20-2004, 04:06 PM
I just got my copy of PF from the lokal Mediamarkt and wanted to say THANKS for another realy good sim to Oleg and Team! Im realy pleased with the new part of your fine sim series http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Good Job! Keep on the good work!

Stiglr
10-20-2004, 04:41 PM
Tannenthalder wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Merely they dropped the huge flammethrower Muzzle flash sprites and went for some smaller and more real looking ones. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, T, that's exactly what I suggested MONTHS ago they needed to do, but that just elicited more bullsh** excuses for why they wouldn't (or to hear them say, couldn't) change it. Night vs. day, or whatever fish story they could invent.

Well, it looks like they always could have. They were just being stubborn, and liked their cartoonish flashes.

Good riddance to it.

Philipscdrw
10-20-2004, 05:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
I assume a FB AEP patch will be in works to address this issue. If not, heads will roll. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The patch is called Pacific Fighters. You are obnoxious, shut up.

StigIR, why do you only have 37 posts? I thought you were much more prolific than that.

DayGlow
10-20-2004, 05:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Tannenthalder wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Merely they dropped the huge flammethrower Muzzle flash sprites and went for some smaller and more real looking ones. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, T, that's exactly what I suggested MONTHS ago they needed to do, but that just elicited more bullsh** excuses for why they wouldn't (or to hear them say, _couldn't_) change it. Night vs. day, or whatever fish story they could invent.

Well, it looks like they always could have. They were just being stubborn, and liked their cartoonish flashes.

Good riddance to it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or being ignorant, have no idea how much time it took to change the graphics code to include variable flash based on time of day.

Bearcat99
10-20-2004, 07:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Russian_Ivan:
Thanks to those who downloaded pirated version of PF we might never see BOB... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldnt sweat it if I were you.... I think at the very worse BoB may just take a bit longer to come out but it will come out I think. I also think many will be pleased with the level of sales for PF in spite of the thievery. I also think that many... not all of course (Im not THAT naive..) but many who downloaded the pirated copy will buy at least one copy. I also think that a lot of people will be turned on to the sdim by the Discovery Wings stuff. Plus there are a few things in the works to get even more exposure for 1C and thier great sims.

Stiglr
10-20-2004, 10:35 PM
Phillips,

I do have many, many more than 38 posts. when the new board was released, I somehow went back to 0 posts. Your guess is good as mine...

Day Glow,
The 'time of day' issue was brought up before, and only an idiot would surmise that it's more important to have a blinding flash for night than to have an accurate flash for day. Considering the vast majority of the planes in IL-2 are DAY FIGHTERS.

It was just another red herring. Another LIE. I'm VERY confident this was nothing more involved than simply adjusting the existing sprite or creating a new sprite. And even if it were more involved than that, the correct course of action would be that if something had to be "not right" the brightness of the night flash should suffer, not the day.

WUAF_Badsight
10-20-2004, 11:56 PM
I DONT KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS ! ! ! ! ! !

THERE WAS NEVER ANY MUZZELLFLASH IN FB !

*screaming rant mode on*
LOOK ! ! ! ! NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS ! ! !
*screaming rant mode off*

http://img89.exs.cx/img89/3617/FlashBF-Zs.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Badsight/Flash_B25_2s.jpg

http://img12.exs.cx/img12/4585/FlashKometFly3.jpg

DayGlow
10-21-2004, 12:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Phillips,

I do have many, many more than 38 posts. when the new board was released, I somehow went back to 0 posts. Your guess is good as mine...

Day Glow,
The 'time of day' issue was brought up before, and only an idiot would surmise that it's more important to have a blinding flash for night than to have an accurate flash for day. Considering the vast majority of the planes in IL-2 are DAY FIGHTERS.

It was just another red herring. Another LIE. I'm VERY confident this was nothing more involved than simply adjusting the existing sprite or creating a new sprite. And even if it _were_ more involved than that, the correct course of action would be that if something had to be "not right" the brightness of the night flash should suffer, not the day. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or just maybe, since they were digging deep into the graphics engine adding the new shader effects, etc, that they were at a point where they could re-adjust things such as muzzle flash. They may have well been able to do it earlier, but the fact that it would take a lot of work for just a patch wouldn't make sense.

It ain't about you and I highly doubt that a simple grudge was the reason why it wasn't done earlier. You are putting way too much weight into your opinion.

What's with the attitude? Something was fixed that you didn't like, but that isn't good enough. What do you want? Oleg to come to your door and personally appologies for not listening to you whine earlier and thank you for the insight? Get a grip.

WUAF_Badsight
10-21-2004, 01:24 AM
give it a rest Stigler

put dows when its not right

put downs when it gets better

i mean wtf dude ?

LLv34_Flanker
10-21-2004, 01:59 AM
S!

Also bought my copy of PF, and sold 3 others in the process, so no hypocrite warez squealing please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif So far I like the new muzzle flashes, at last I can see what I am shooting at..now if they fixed the MG151/20 I would be happy. The Finns didn't have 30mm in their Bf109G-6 but have to use it if I want to shoot down these flying T34's disguised as aeroplanes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Overall PF is an improvement over AEP, not much but enough that can recommend to BUY it so we get BoB 2005 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

NegativeGee
10-21-2004, 02:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:

It was just another red herring. Another LIE. I'm VERY confident this was nothing more involved than simply adjusting the existing sprite or creating a new sprite. And even if it _were_ more involved than that, the correct course of action would be that if something had to be "not right" the brightness of the night flash should suffer, not the day. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since this issue really got alot of attention (post AEP release) theres been all sorts of stuff said about it.

I do recall Oleg commenting that a recode of the Muzzle Flashes would require too large a file download for a patch fix. Sounded quite reasonable to me. It is very unbalanced to hold up the issue of the MF's and gripe over it, paricularly now it has been fixed to everybodys satisfaction, regardless of what has been said about the matter in the past.

As DayGlow said why the vitriol? I don't see why you are bothered about the IL-2 line at all anymore given your interests over at TargetWare.

Tannethalder2.
10-21-2004, 02:38 AM
@DayGlow:
So taking existing muzzleflash sprites resize them and put them into a compressed data file and add some:
if time XX:YY then load flashbig [flashsmall]
for at the verybest six guntypes is a hell of a work? Don't think so and some folks, who mod games may think along the same line.

Besides that time<->flashsize thingie lightning code in general seems still the same,nice glow effect on surfaces when you fire the guns.
They finally did the right thing to reduce that exaggerated flashes but they certainly didn't sweet blood in liters over the matter.

S!

JG54_Arnie
10-21-2004, 06:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
I DONT KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS ! ! ! ! ! !

THERE WAS _NEVER_ ANY MUZZELLFLASH IN FB !

*screaming rant mode on*
__LOOK ! ! ! !__ NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS ! ! !
*screaming rant mode off*
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.student.utwente.nl/a.j.vansteenwijk/IL2/PF/muzzle.jpg
http://home.student.utwente.nl/a.j.vansteenwijk/IL2/PF/no%20muzzle.jpg

DayGlow
10-21-2004, 10:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tannethalder2.:
@DayGlow:
So taking existing muzzleflash sprites resize them and put them into a compressed data file and add some:
if time XX:YY then load flashbig [flashsmall]
for at the verybest six guntypes is a hell of a work? Don't think so and some folks, who mod games may think along the same line.

Besides that time<->flashsize thingie lightning code in general seems still the same,nice glow effect on surfaces when you fire the guns.
They finally did the right thing to reduce that exaggerated flashes but they certainly didn't sweet blood in liters over the matter.

S! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

because you know how the game is coded? There is already a post here that Oleg has stated that redoing the muzzle flashes would be a large file for a patch. Could have they done it earlier? Probably, but the cost of time/sizs wasn't worth it for them. So what? When they had an opportunity they did it. I choose to believe there is no dark conspiracy where Oleg and team want to screw over their customers.

JtD
10-21-2004, 10:41 AM
I also think that this great news. Thank you.

Stiglr
10-21-2004, 10:55 AM
All's I'm reacting to is the usual fanboi butt-kissing and fawning at Oleg over something he did VERY grudgingly, and didn't even announce; he just "slipped it into PF" rather than admit they were wrong and say that's why they changed it. Can anybody with PF see if it's mentioned in the ReadMe? I'd be interested to know.

I too, am glad they finally did it. I just wanna keep the record straight on how much of a "good deed" it was. As for thanks, reserve that for the many folks who stood up and constantly reminded the dev team of how cartoonish the flashes were before the change. Because that's what it took to make the change happen.

JG54_Arnie
10-21-2004, 11:05 AM
Thats what it looks like for us. But you dont know if it really went that way. Maybe they had to wait till they went for a bigger patch like release (which is a way of looking at PF).

Ah well, it doesnt really matter though. Its been changed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

DayGlow
10-21-2004, 11:06 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

how many other features where changed/tweaked without official statments?

How about actaully stopping and thinking for once? Could it be as simple as the fact that they changed it, and along with 100's of other changes, failed to mention it since they don't see it as such a huge deal?

Like I said before, get a grip, you ain't that important.

And to top it off, you are now whining that the devs actually listen to the community. You are acting like they owe you something. It is a very childish, self-centered attitude that I will never be able to understand. How many hours of enjoyment have you got from IL2/FB/AOE and now PF when it's released in you area? Yet the spoiled child attitude still shines through.

This isn't butt kissing, it's seeing that for a grand total of aroun $100 I've gotten years of entertainment from the sim and can see that the devs are constantly listening and trying to imporve their product.

crazyivan1970
10-21-2004, 11:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
All's I'm reacting to is the usual fanboi butt-kissing and fawning at Oleg over something he did VERY grudgingly, and didn't even announce; he just "slipped it into PF" rather than admit they were wrong and say that's why they changed it. Can anybody with PF see if it's mentioned in the ReadMe? I'd be interested to know.

I too, am glad they finally did it. I just wanna keep the record straight on how much of a "good deed" it was. As for thanks, reserve that for the many folks who stood up and constantly reminded the dev team of how cartoonish the flashes were before the change. Because that's what it took to make the change happen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me mr Stigler... but if you go and do a little search, you will find that Oleg came to one of those numerious muzzle flashes threads and stated that they ARE aware, stated the reason for it AND stated that since they changing quiet a few things in game engine for PF, muzzle flashes will be transparent with release of pacific fighters.

Before making such a claim... at least get your facts in order http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cold_Gambler
10-21-2004, 12:01 PM
Best thread I've read in a long time!
I've got a much better appreciation of how much work goes into making these models. Thanks for all your hard work Jippo- I'm looking forward to flying your Ju88 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

faustnik
10-21-2004, 12:22 PM
Yeah great, just when I'll be switching to an a/c with wing guns only they are fixing the muzzle flash. DOH! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Great news, thanks 1C.

p1ngu666
10-21-2004, 12:30 PM
faus, what plane?http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

in some ways, i kinda miss the huge muzzle flashes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

but its nice tobe able to see in 110 aswell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

faustnik
10-21-2004, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
faus, what plane?http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From this:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/190A4.2.jpg

to this:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/F4UC.jpg

GT182
10-21-2004, 01:45 PM
Man you guys are never happy at all and it's getting sickening to see the whining. GROW UP! If ya don't like FB or PF the way they are, go make your own sim, so we can rag on you for a change.

Man, not all of us have it yet and the patch isn't even out yet. Get a grip!

faustnik
10-21-2004, 02:29 PM
GT182,

p1ngu666 and I promise to use more http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif when we are joking next time.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

p1ngu666
10-21-2004, 04:16 PM
hope u fly the british ones http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

there the ones ill fly more http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

SeaFireLIV
10-21-2004, 05:00 PM
Well, I thought the muzzle flash thing couldn`t be done! Anyway, the whining should stop now, surely! But of course, it never does!

Thanx, Oleg (although the flash thing NEVER bothered me)!

Stiglr
10-21-2004, 05:27 PM
Of course, seafire, spits have wing guns.

So, if it's not inconvenient for YOU, it must be whining for everyone else.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

SeaFireLIV
10-21-2004, 05:45 PM
I don`t just fly spits, you KNOW that. What about the LA5? The mig3UT - Just cos I like the Spit doesn`t mean I ignore the Soviet aircraft! I`m still a big Russian plane flyer. tut-tut! Hey, where`s your Avatar gone? I enjoyed looking at that smug mug - well, leering back at it actually!

WUAF_Badsight
10-21-2004, 10:49 PM
seriously Stigler , in this thread you need to STFU

i mean it

the only correct response after this kind of thing happens is :

cool !

Stiglr
10-22-2004, 11:14 AM
No idea what happened to my avatar. My account got set back to "zero posts" about a month ago for some reason... then someone on admin put a wise-*** comment under my name that I didn't write, and worse, had no way to edit (they were good enough to remove it when I requested it)...

so, given that, I haven't bothered to repost the avatar.

crazyivan1970
10-22-2004, 11:21 AM
Stig needs a hug http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

clint-ruin
10-22-2004, 11:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Stig needs a hug http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should change his avatar to an air ring cushion after the last brutal male/male/dom/sub/anal performance that was Stiglr Bringing Up Target Rabaul Once Too Often.

http://narang.com/img/ru/airring-cushion.jpg

And yes, Oleg did pop up on the last thread about them and say that it would be done. For a while people had suggested a bunch of different things - playing with the transparency of the flash effect varied by the time of day, shrinking the flashes, etc. From what I recall Oleg mentioned that the muzzle flashes are tied to each plane model and had to be redone for everything they've been changed on.

carguy_
10-23-2004, 12:49 PM
Wow this change is better than even *cough*changing the FW190 view cuz it just solves so many problems!

I mean maaaan,the developer actually listens to constructive well argumented criticism and makes a change.That`s just so COOL!http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Stigler,even I can`t whine as you.As a LW fanatic I had a liking to you but plz mate it`s very often that you just make a clown out of yourself.Take it easy bud!

IVJG51_Swine
10-24-2004, 01:05 AM
I was a big muzzle flash whiner as well...Thanks for fixing it guys..

~S~

Copperhead310th
10-24-2004, 01:42 AM
well lets make i easier for the LW guys.
not like thier Aircraft ain't Uber enough allready. lol 109 turns on a dime.
lets eleminate all the muzzle flash from the german planes so they can blast you with 108's win NO MUZZLE flash. geeez http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

GR142_Astro
10-24-2004, 02:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
well lets make i easier for the LW guys.
not like thier Aircraft ain't Uber enough allready. lol 109 turns on a dime.
lets eleminate all the muzzle flash from the german planes so they can blast you with 108's win NO MUZZLE flash. geeez http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have to throw in with ya there Copper. With each game/patch progression the 109 gets better and better and better. There seems to be no stopping point to how good they're going to make it. Some of us may not see this, but one by one the 109's limitations are being fudged or removed alltogether.

1 - So a 30mm gun just blazes away with no flash?

2 - I understand in PF the 109 elevator has been boosted and it has better high speed ability.

3 - I also understand in PF their acceleration has been boosted.

4 - 109 rear view better than P47 with bubble canopy.

5 - Very little blackout, less than P47 and FAR less than Mustang or Spit.

Anyway guys, flame away if you need to. I'm just saying that I think 1C has gotten a bit carried away with the 109s. Somewhere they lost sight of the plane's true characteristics, leaving us with this sort of weird Pro Online Competition mobile.

Ah well, I'm about to ship out to the Pacific in a few days anyway. See you guys over blue waters! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


PS: Heat shield in place.....

http://www.cinefex.com/backissues/number14.jpg

HQ1
10-24-2004, 07:35 AM
GR142_Astro, WHO tell you the 109's elevator has been improved?have you tried 109g14 out from dive? I hardly fly other plane.I can not feel 109's elevators change.

OldMan____
10-24-2004, 08:01 AM
First.. muzlle flashs are removed because they DID NOT EXISTED!!! .50 users can keep shoting at our planes without stop... no muzzle flash. But our 13mm guns (SAME CALIBER as .50) blind us completely!!

109 elevator authority was not changed.. only the compression was moved a little bit up in speed, but it is still there! Try before speaking. If you reach 600 km you loose almost all control.

Don´t know about PF changes.. so will not comment.

Oleg already stated ALL PLANES HAVE SAME BACK OUT!!!

People that complain 109 does have different stall limits really does not understand flight dynamics (or do not want to). 109 seems to make same turn without blackout because it LOOSE speed fast in turn, so G load is smaller.

Also the VERY limited elevator authority on 109 at high speed makes impossible to produce very high G loads at high speed (main situation when other planes blackout)

Try flying a 109G then a p51D... 109 cannot beat soundly p51 in NOTHING but firepower!! They are equivalent planes (109 wins at lower speed but p51 wins at higher speed)!!

AnaK774
10-24-2004, 11:51 AM
So now the high energy bleed when maneuvering is an advantage???

Sure...

And about MF, they were almost non visible in bright daylight and in game we had full night effect 24/7

Now of course we find guys loving night missions bit forgotten, but guess theyre in minority

Hopefully game gets more preference in accuracy than forum whining as we got arcade performance stang with no limitations to high speed elevator... unfortunately stang can "only" handle 15G momentary accleration making its wings snap easily.

Limit is same for all planes in game before u start calling bias again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Remember to test how many destroyers u can cut in half with .50 :P

WUAF_Badsight
10-24-2004, 01:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
5 - Very little blackout, less than P47 and FAR less than Mustang or Spit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

they reach B/O less than most planes at high speed due to their poor elevator authority

someting that the mustang has to spare . . . . .

GR142_Astro
10-24-2004, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
5 - Very little blackout, less than P47 and FAR less than Mustang or Spit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

they reach B/O less than most planes at high speed due to their poor elevator authority

someting that the mustang has to spare . . . . . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgrt, Bad.

I would love to stand over the game coders shoulder and have them give the 109 the exact elevator as the P51 to see for sure if this blackout and wing snap issue are entirely attributable to that. I remain unconvinced that it is that simple.

Hmmm, they "moved" the compression for 109s? Gee, I wonder if the P38 still hits it at 100mph?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

faustnik
10-24-2004, 05:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
well lets make i easier for the LW guys.
not like thier Aircraft ain't Uber enough allready. lol 109 turns on a dime.
lets eleminate all the muzzle flash from the german planes so they can blast you with 108's win NO MUZZLE flash. geeez http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Copperhead,

Any plane is uber when you're fighting it.

rummyrum
10-24-2004, 05:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
5 - Very little blackout, less than P47 and FAR less than Mustang or Spit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

they reach B/O less than most planes at high speed due to their poor elevator authority

someting that the mustang has to spare . . . . . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgrt, Bad.

I would love to stand over the game coders shoulder and have them give the 109 the exact elevator as the P51 to see for sure if this blackout and wing snap issue are entirely attributable to that. I remain unconvinced that it is that simple.

Hmmm, they "moved" the compression for 109s? Gee, I wonder if the P38 still hits it at 100mph?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

rummyrum
10-24-2004, 05:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rummyrum:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
5 - Very little blackout, less than P47 and FAR less than Mustang or Spit.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

they reach B/O less than most planes at high speed due to their poor elevator authority

someting that the mustang has to spare . . . . . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgrt, Bad.

I would love to stand over the game coders shoulder and have them give the 109 the exact elevator as the P51 to see for sure if this blackout and wing snap issue are entirely attributable to that. I remain unconvinced that it is that simple.

Hmmm, they "moved" the compression for 109s? Gee, I wonder if the P38 still hits it at 100mph?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


edited to add more sarcasm

GR142-Pipper
10-24-2004, 11:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by OldMan____:
(...snip...)
Oleg already stated ALL PLANES HAVE SAME BACK OUT!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry, I don't believe that for one minute.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>People that complain 109 does have different stall limits really does not understand flight dynamics (or do not want to). 109 seems to make same turn without blackout because it LOOSE speed fast in turn, so G load is smaller. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> When you're flying at the same airspeed, same altitude and same flight path, you're pulling the same G loads. The blackout model is absolutely not the same aircraft to aircraft.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Also the VERY limited elevator authority on 109 at high speed makes impossible to produce very high G loads at high speed (main situation when other planes blackout)

Try flying a 109G then a p51D... 109 cannot beat soundly p51 in NOTHING but firepower!! [They are equivalent planes (109 wins at lower speed but p51 wins at higher speed)!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Respectfully, I disagree. The 109 out accelerates the P-51, has much more firepower, can perform supernatural turns/reversals, has superior (unnatural) energy gain/loss characteristics, and doesn't shed its wings at the drop of a hat. A late model 109 should not lose to a P-51 as both are currently modeled unless the 109 driver makes one or more major mistakes.

....one man's view.

GR142-Pipper

WUAF_Badsight
10-25-2004, 12:36 AM
the P-51 is more manouverable

. . . . another mans view

WUAF_Badsight
10-25-2004, 12:38 AM
untill you can confirm using devicelink outputs that the Bf109 can sustain higher G you dont have any evidence

other people who have done controlled tests have reported all planes reach B/O at or around 6G in FB

on or offline

peterm1
10-25-2004, 01:27 AM
Oh my God now I have nothing to whine about, what am I going to do...... (self deprecating humour kicks into high gear!)

As a long standing flash whiner, I sincerely thank the team.

karost
10-25-2004, 01:31 AM
over three year I ask one thing for along time
that is "EM-diagram" to prove for FM engine.

now we have devicelink right ? I hope we will a find a good friends making "EM-diagram" to prove all this stuff.

but I think to make "EM-diagram" is not a customer's "job"

S!

GR142-Pipper
10-25-2004, 01:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
untill you can confirm using devicelink outputs that the Bf109 can sustain higher G you dont have any evidence <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I could care less about devicelink. This merely parrots what the game code is telling it, not if blackout is a programmable variable. If you choose to accept the notion that all planes as currently modeled in IL-2FB conform to the same blackout criteria, that's your business and your right. I don't and neither do many of the very good pilots that I fly with.

...and so it goes.

GR142-Pipper

Copperhead310th
10-25-2004, 04:29 AM
look it dosent take a freakin rocket scientist
to know that when you have a 109 on you 12 and your on his 6 with 3.00m distance in level flight at over 400KPH and he executes a freaking "Batman type" turn does a 180 and head right back at you in under 4 seconds that something aint quite right with the 109's turning abliity. now go chew on that one for a bit.

Gryphonne
10-25-2004, 05:09 AM
You flying against an AI 109, Copperhead? I can't think of easier meat for the P-47 or P-51 in this game than a moderately flown 109.

Gryph

WUAF_Badsight
10-25-2004, 05:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
When you're flying at the same airspeed, same altitude and same flight path, you're pulling the same G loads. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that virtually never happens in combat

not for very long even when it does

& when your in a situation that feels like that there can be differences still

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
not if blackout is a programmable variable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what B/O is caused by is G that your plane generates

what has been showen is that when a plane in FB (& we are talking about all fighter in FB here) gets close to pulling 6G then the pilot goes into blackout

not all planes retain speed equally

not all planes have the same control authority

if B/O was to be the same for all planes , those 2 things would also have to be equal , but its not

for you Pipper this comes down to the Mustang making B/O happen eaisly doesnt it

the Mustang has the effective elevators in FB on Fighters , its the reason the plane can spike into 6G so quick & easy from hard sudden pulls on the stick

taking all your impressions from DogFighting is hardly a controlled accurate way of generating opinions of plane performance in FB

we now have a way of getting accurate info on every single plane in FB

what humans are not very good at is doin a task exactly the same way time after time

& this is what you are saying you have seen in FB , that you turned with another plane , & that this plane was pulling an exact same amount on the stick , & holding the exact same load & speed constantly as what you were

excuse me if i dont believe

clint-ruin
10-25-2004, 05:53 AM
True lag pursuit - especially between two different types of planes - can be quite elusive. Get someone to activate the smoke trails behind their wingtips when you're pulling a turn and you'll see how far off their flightpath you really are.

The thing with Devicelink is also worth a try if you're sceptical. It's not so much that devicelink 'repeats what the sim tells it' as that g-forces are quite easy to calculate when your computer knows the exact position of every object in the game over time. The term is just shorthand for how many times the force of gravity an object experiences due to its own movement.

As people are now repeating, blackout effects are simply to do with the maximum rate of change in the turn radius at speed. There is simply no point in coding it differently for different planes. If someone is 'turning inside you' without experiencing blackout, chances are they simply slowed down mid turn and cut the corner on you.

PraetorHonoris
10-25-2004, 06:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
well lets make i easier for the LW guys.
not like thier Aircraft ain't Uber enough allready. lol 109 turns on a dime.
lets eleminate all the muzzle flash from the german planes so they can blast you with 108's win NO MUZZLE flash. geeez http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Keep whining. You just comfirm Oleg:

"Percentage of the US whinnes is way greater than German whinnes...." - 01.07.2004, €žCheating Stops right here€œ

Remember?

BTW: Take a look at my sig.

PraetorHonoris
10-25-2004, 06:39 AM
I forgot:

Thanks for the reworked MF. It gives Il2 a more realistic look.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

faustnik
10-25-2004, 09:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
look it dosent take a freakin rocket scientist
to know that when you have a 109 on you 12 and your on his 6 with 3.00m distance in level flight at over 400KPH and he executes a freaking "Batman type" turn does a 180 and head right back at you in under 4 seconds that something aint quite right with the 109's turning abliity. now go chew on that one for a bit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I would imagine that from a P-47 trying to follow a 109, it would look like a 109 is doing "bat turns". Is looks similar from a 190's view when you are chasing a P-51. From the 190 view it looks like the Spitfire, P-40, or and Soviet a/c can pull the same thing. Fact is any of those aircraft, well pretty much any aircraft in general, could out-turn the Fw190 or P-47. You have to develope the tactics to negate your oponents turn advantage. Once you master this, turn rate becomes completely irrelevent.


As Clint-ruin points out make track with smoke on to figure out the actual difference. This might also show you how relative speed effects turn rate. Of course, you can just go on claiming the "German planes are overmodeled" with absolutely no basis for the statement.

PBNA-Boosher
10-25-2004, 10:24 AM
I'm glad that it's been fixed too, but my problem is that now the FW-190 doesn't look as bad-@$$ when someone's shooting with it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Oh well, some sacrifices must be made... :P

GR142-Pipper
10-25-2004, 03:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
When you're flying at the same airspeed, same altitude and same flight path, you're pulling the same G loads. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>that virtually never happens in combat

not for very long even when it does

& when your in a situation that feels like that there can be differences still <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not enough difference that it would cause one pilot to blackout and another not to.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
not if blackout is a programmable variable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>what B/O is caused by is G that your plane generates

what has been showen is that when a plane in FB (& we are talking about all fighter in FB here) gets close to pulling 6G then the pilot goes into blackout <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...and this is where we part company. It's obvious that this doesn't occur equally.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>not all planes retain speed equally

not all planes have the same control authority

if B/O was to be the same for all planes , those 2 things would also have to be equal , but its not <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>...but it is.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>for you Pipper this comes down to the Mustang making B/O happen eaisly doesnt it <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, no. It comes down to using artificial means (programming) to make the aircraft more equal in order to sell more games.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the Mustang has the effective elevators in FB on Fighters , its the reason the plane can spike into 6G so quick & easy from hard sudden pulls on the stick <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>"Hard sudden pulls"? HA. You can simply look at the stick in the P-51 and the things will start to go black.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>taking all your impressions from DogFighting is hardly a controlled accurate way of generating opinions of plane performance in FB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Respectfully, you know nothing of my flight experiences, Badsight. My (and others) impressions of how these aircraft perform in many, many dogfights is certainly sufficient for me to draw the conclusions that I have.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>we now have a way of getting accurate info on every single plane in FB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No we don't. You refer to devicelink but, again, this is simply a tool to let you know what the game code is telling you...but not one that tells you if there is a disparity in the manner in which blackout is being implemented aircraft to aircraft.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>what humans are not very good at is doin a task exactly the same way time after time <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Baloney. When someone has played this game for a while (two years for me, even more time for others) it's easy to see the differences manifest themselves.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>& this is what you are saying you have seen in FB , that you turned with another plane , & that this plane was pulling an exact same amount on the stick , & holding the exact same load & speed constantly as what you were <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's what I'm saying alright.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>excuse me if i dont believe <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're excused.

GR142-Pipper

GR142-Pipper
10-25-2004, 03:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
look it dosent take a freakin rocket scientist
to know that when you have a 109 on you 12 and your on his 6 with 3.00m distance in level flight at over 400KPH and he executes a freaking "Batman type" turn does a 180 and head right back at you in under 4 seconds that something aint quite right with the 109's turning abliity. now go chew on that one for a bit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's exactly right. One, the 109 driver experiences no blackout even under these absurd conditions and two, when the 109 pulls power he immediately loses a LOT of energy. Try pulling power in most of the other aircraft and see what happens....nothing. It's amazing to listen to others deny the obvious...and then try and convince others that their experiences are irrelevant. Go figure. Oh well, it's just a game.

GR142-Pipper

faustnik
10-25-2004, 03:37 PM
Give us a track to look at or something Pipper, not just, "it's wrong 'cause I say so". Lots of us will be happy to look at it and consider your findings. I've been critical of the relative FMs of the "lightweight a/c" myself.

GR142-Pipper
10-25-2004, 06:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Give us a track to look at or something Pipper, not just, "it's wrong 'cause I say so". Lots of us will be happy to look at it and consider your findings. I've been critical of the relative FMs of the "lightweight a/c" myself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Faustnik, simply fly on-line in a P-51 (or any Russian or American aircraft) where you're chasing a 109 downhill and the 109 starts to maneuver. You will not only be hard-pressed to stay with the aircraft, you'll be hard-pressed to not be blacked out. If you're not blacked out, then watch while your plane is reduced to about a 3G machine in order for the pilot to stay conscious. Try it and see what you think.

GR142-Pipper

clint-ruin
10-25-2004, 06:39 PM
Pipper, please stop the ***dance. As amazing as it may seem, you are not the first person to raise questions about FBs FM, nor even the first person to ask about the blackout modelling. This exact same conversation has already happened more than once before, except usually with people who manage to 'get it' before the thread hits 5 pages.

At last count there were 3 people who had gone through and tested this in Devicelink enabled tracks, G is generated the same for all planes, all pilots black out at around the same G, depending on the onset rate. The "g" reading is a -product of an objects movement- in the game engine itself. If you are reaching higher peak Gs during a turn, you need to be a lot less ham fisted with the controls in your turns - sustained and instantaneous turn rates will generate different peak Gs and duration of G to turn the same number of degrees.

Perhaps I should put this another way - to your claims that the Bf109 has the advantage, I say poppycock, and spit on your monocle. It is obviously the other way around, and all the evidence you need is to go online and see for yourself.

What? Not convinced yet?

GR142-Pipper
10-25-2004, 10:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
Pipper, please stop the ***dance. (...snip...) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Respectfully, lose the freshman condescending act. It cuts no ice with me and it makes you look like a lightweight putz. This is just a discussion and isn't personal whatsoever so don't make it so.

GR142-Pipper

WUAF_Badsight
10-25-2004, 10:58 PM
if you dont understand by now your mind is shut-off pipper

your a DFer & you want less B/O in a DF in your Mustang , why it does B/O has been explained to you & if you wont listen then it isnt a discussion

i mean when you say things like this :
"how these aircraft perform in many, many dogfights is certainly sufficient for me to draw the conclusions"

shows you have no idear on how to test these things

i mean you have the tools , go test

faustnik
10-25-2004, 10:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
Faustnik, simply fly on-line in a P-51 (or any Russian or American aircraft) where you're chasing a 109 downhill and the 109 starts to maneuver. You will not only be hard-pressed to stay with the aircraft, you'll be hard-pressed to not be blacked out. If you're not blacked out, then watch while your plane is reduced to about a 3G machine in order for the pilot to stay conscious. Try it and see what you think.

GR142-Pipper <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I hear you Pipper, the faster heavier plane, P-51, will never be able to follow a 109 in FB. I know exactly what you describe here. The P-51 can do the same thing to a Dora pursuing it. In FB, there is no way to pusue a lighter aircraft in that fassion. The Fw190, P-51, P-47, and P-38 pilots in this sim have always had to deal with it. It never bothers me as long as I have the the heavy fighter's advantage of dive acceleration and zoom climb. If we have that advantage is a whole other story. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WUAF_Badsight
10-25-2004, 11:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
"Hard sudden pulls"? HA. You can simply look at the stick in the P-51 and the things will start to go black. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

so you jump into the P-51 with the exact stick settings & want your virtual pilot to handel increased Elevator authority the exact same way as he did in a plane that doesnt generate G as eaisly ?

do you see what im saying here ?

this is a subject that i have a big interest in , & before the ability to test A/C in FB accuratly like we do now i would have agreed with Pipper but the opposite of what he is saying has been proven to be the case

i could go into more about the points you made Pipper & why you are wrong but it would be a waste of my time

the more you post , the lees you show to actually understand

planes dont turn the same

DF senarios are not controlled situations & planes do not retain E exactly the same , you have a false idear based upon a inaccurate senario

GR142-Pipper
10-25-2004, 11:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
if you dont understand by now your mind is shut-off pipper

your a DFer & you want less B/O in a DF in your Mustang , why it does B/O has been explained to you & if you wont listen then it isnt a discussion <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's not even what's being discussed. Let me clarify. What's being discussed is the apparent disparity in pilot G tolerance between aircraft under identical flight conditions. It's no more complicated than that. Btw, I don't really fly the P-51 that much. It was simply used as an example.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>i mean when you say things like this :
"how these aircraft perform in many, many dogfights is certainly sufficient for me to draw the conclusions"

shows you have no idear on how to test these things <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, but no matter....it's just a game. (A very well done game, but a game nevertheless.)

GR142-Pipper

clint-ruin
10-25-2004, 11:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
(...snip...)Respectfully, lose the freshman condescending act.
GR142-Pipper <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pipper, which goes faster? A Bf109 travelling at 500kmh or a P-51 travelling at 500kmh?

Does that sound completely stupid to you? Congratulations - that's exactly how your "g is different between planes" line reads.

When you are done with this crusade perhaps you can shock the scientific establishment with your work on which is heavier - a pound of feathers or a pound of lead.

karost
10-25-2004, 11:34 PM
humm... may be I need a "real" G-suit when flying p-51 in this sim/game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WUAF_Badsight
10-26-2004, 12:58 AM
the pound of feathers would blackout less Clint as we all know Lead is heavier : )

LEXX_Luthor
10-26-2004, 05:27 AM
When they think they are winning they call it a sim

When see they are losing it they call it a "just a game"

GR142-Pipper
10-26-2004, 11:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
(...snip...)Respectfully, lose the freshman condescending act.
GR142-Pipper <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pipper, which goes faster? A Bf109 travelling at 500kmh or a P-51 travelling at 500kmh?

Does that sound completely stupid to you? Congratulations - that's exactly how your "g is different between planes" line reads.

When you are done with this crusade perhaps you can shock the scientific establishment with your work on which is heavier - a pound of feathers or a pound of lead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It's become clear that you really don't have the slightest idea about what's being discussed so you might want to consider saying less about it (particularly so since I've NEVER seen you play on-line). Give it some thought, Clint.

GR142-Pipper

GR142-Pipper
10-26-2004, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
When they think they are winning they call it a sim

When see they are losing it they call it a "just a game" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, either way...it's just a game.

GR142-Pipper

faustnik
10-26-2004, 11:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
When they think they are winning they call it a sim

When see they are losing it they call it a "just a game" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, either way...it's just a game.

GR142-Pipper <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really hate that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

It says sim on the box! A sim is an attempt the recreate a historical situation, it is more than simply a "game" and therfore much more interesting.

123-Wulf-JG123
10-27-2004, 03:48 AM
Dont forget guys... the LW aircraft had a slightly reclined pilot position in order to reduce the G effects ON THE PILOT, therefore while the a/c may be pulling the same G, the pilot's expeience of that G was different.

VW-IceFire
10-28-2004, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
When they think they are winning they call it a sim

When see they are losing it they call it a "just a game" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, either way...it's just a game.

GR142-Pipper <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really hate that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

It says sim on the box! A sim is an attempt the recreate a historical situation, it is more than simply a "game" and therfore much more interesting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sim City and The Sims are also simulations http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Or so the title suggests http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

rj-newbee
10-30-2004, 04:24 PM
Hi, I haven't picked up PF yet, so would someone who does please post a couple screenshots (from the cockpit as well as outside) of an Me262 with the new muzzle-flashes?

Thanks in advance!

Carnage2681
10-31-2004, 05:47 AM
I cannot post a Screen Shot right now, but i can tell you that there is no really visible MF in the Me-262 right now. Only some smoke clouds under the window

Really GREAT and good for FPS

rj-newbee
10-31-2004, 11:35 AM
Thanks Carnage2681!

IMO the Me262 was probably the worst offender for blinding MF, so if it's that much of an improvement for old Stormbird, it speaks volumes for the rest of the aircraft. I really gotta pick this up (hurry up, payday!). The extra a/c, maps, and carrier ops had me sold on it in the first place, but this extra touch with the muzzle flashes is just icing on the cake.