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Khaert
01-28-2006, 08:41 AM
im fairly new to the game .. ok i got it about 5 days ago.. anyway.. in a dog fight the comp always has my number.. i was wondering about things like opptimal speed for manuvering and maybe some helpfull hints in dogfighting.. it seems i never turn fast enough and if i try to turn to hard ill put myself in a spin and im always unable to break it. the computer it easly able to get behind me and take me out. are there some inflight manuvers that i dont know about that would make things better for me? is there "newbie" site where i can go to learn how to fight better. i know that alot of it is practice .. but i feel ive hit a wall and i cant figure out how to get any better.. and i know i need a whole lot of inproving before i bring my game online. thanks "the new guy"

Khaert
01-28-2006, 08:41 AM
im fairly new to the game .. ok i got it about 5 days ago.. anyway.. in a dog fight the comp always has my number.. i was wondering about things like opptimal speed for manuvering and maybe some helpfull hints in dogfighting.. it seems i never turn fast enough and if i try to turn to hard ill put myself in a spin and im always unable to break it. the computer it easly able to get behind me and take me out. are there some inflight manuvers that i dont know about that would make things better for me? is there "newbie" site where i can go to learn how to fight better. i know that alot of it is practice .. but i feel ive hit a wall and i cant figure out how to get any better.. and i know i need a whole lot of inproving before i bring my game online. thanks "the new guy"

EURO_Snoopy
01-28-2006, 09:28 AM
Check out In Pursuit (http://web.comhem.se/%7Eu85627360/) by Johan €œBMBM€ Kylander and have a browse through the Airwarfare guides section (http://www.airwarfare.com/guides.htm) that should get you goinghttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chuck_Older
01-28-2006, 09:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Khaert:
im fairly new to the game .. ok i got it about 5 days ago.. anyway.. in a dog fight the comp always has my number.. i was wondering about things like opptimal speed for manuvering and maybe some helpfull hints in dogfighting.. it seems i never turn fast enough and if i try to turn to hard ill put myself in a spin and im always unable to break it. the computer it easly able to get behind me and take me out. are there some inflight manuvers that i dont know about that would make things better for me? is there "newbie" site where i can go to learn how to fight better. i know that alot of it is practice .. but i feel ive hit a wall and i cant figure out how to get any better.. and i know i need a whole lot of inproving before i bring my game online. thanks "the new guy" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent advice, above http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

One or two quick notes though:

1)I notice you mention you can't turn fast enough http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

It's a common misconception that to win a 'dogfight', you must make "flat" turns, the way it is thought they did it in WWI. Don't limit your thinking to just turns. Maneuvering includes more than just the rate you can turn

You are correct, there are optimum cornering speeds for every aircraft. It is a large subject I can't address in brief, but know that there is a difference between Tight turns and Fast turns

Slower turns are almost always completed quicker than Faster turns

There is "lead" (as in Follow the leader, not the metal Pb) pursuit and "lag" pursuit

Lead pursuit is when you "lead" your target by keeping your nose 'ahead' of the target

Lag pursuit is when you 'lag' behind the target and your nose is 'behind' him

"lead" pursuit allows you to 'cut the corner' and fly a physically shorter distance than your target

"Lag" pursuit makes you fly more distance but potentially keeps your speed up (Speed Is Life!) and gives you less of a "deflection" angle to shoot with, typically less delection=easier shot to make

2) the wall you've hit, to me, seems like you need to start thinking in Three dimensions, not two

Consider this:

You are turning behind your opponent. You cannot stay behind him! In a revolution or three, he is now behind you!

Well, consider that you could have manuevered vertically, and by that I don't necessarily mean: fly straight up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

In this scenario I have described, consider these two options:

1) The "High yo-yo"- you gain altitude as you turn, using rudder and elevator. You gain sufficient altitude to dive back down on your opponent while you 'cut the corner'. This can also allow you to use your rate of roll (aileron inputs) to allow you to bring your guns to bear as you dive back down on your target

2) The "Low yo-yo"- the other side of the coin, you make a short dive to gain speed and also 'cut the corner'. Now it's not your turn rate, it's how well you can use the speed you just gained to climb up under the enemy. Aileron roll can be just as important here as with the High yo-yo

Aerobatics were taught to cadets to make them understand how to link maneuvers together to make the plane go where they want it to. Study some aerobatics. My absolute favorite (although it will get you shot down)- fly stright up at high speed. As you approach a stall, keep the plane pointed up, but kick the rudder over. Throttle may need to be decreased to allow the rudder high authority

Why did I mention this if it's a bad idea in combat?

It teaches you to not only learn how slow you can go and still control the plane, but makes you learn when to expect a stall, and how the plane will behave...even which side it tends to 'drop off' on, as well as teaching you when your rudder is most effective- rudder control is as important as stick control and seems to be the least understood pilot input

lastly-
3) learning how to disengage

If you can't beat your enemy in a turn fight, don't let him make you turn! Disengage! Dive if you dive better, climb if you climb better, roll away and dive, or sideslip (rudder inputs here), amke hism waste his energy bu manuevering, do SOMEthing to get away. If you manuever better at high speed than he does, take the fight to that speed- but "gain seperation" from him. Do NOT get "Low and Slow"- low and slow = death. Use your plane's best assets to exploit the enemy's weakness. Experience is the thing you need here

If you find you can't turn with the bad guy, don't do it! Try to make a situation in which he can't perform as well as you- don't try to emulate his performance when he performs better than you do

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-28-2006, 10:12 AM
Welcome! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I posted this yesterday in the GD forum - thought it might help. South African RAF pilot Adolf 'Sailor' Malan had this distributed to his squadrons. It's common sense rather than a list of manouvres but should serve you well.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/MyTenRules.jpg

You've probably got a favourite plane - I would say stick with it and learn what you can and can't do in it. The more you practice, the luckier you'll get http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Bearcat99
01-28-2006, 04:49 PM
IN Pursuit is a must read for sure. I also recommend that you go to AW.C and keep that site bookmarked. That site is a one stop shop. I alos recommend that you check out the software I am linkjing to you below for a start. Keep in mind that a part of winning any fight is knowing what your enemy can and cannot do..or at least having a good idea. To that end Hardball's Aircraft Viewer and Neural Dream's Aircraft Guide are great tools.

Lastly gunnery is a skill you cant get too much instruction on. To that end check out Sniper's Corner. All this stuff will help you get on the right track... but the major thing that you will need is time. Practice is the key. Goodluck.. and again welcome.

In Pursuit: An Online Pilot's Guide to Aerial Combat (http://web.comhem.se/%7Eu85627360/)
Neural Dreaml's Aircraft Reference Guide (http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm#001)
Hardball's Aircraft Viewer (http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm#014) an online version of the guide basically.. both are very good.

IL2 Manager 5.0 (http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm#022) This utility will allow you to make certain adjustments within the config file.. like graphics setting etc. on a gui. While it is highly recommended that you learn where these things are in the config file, once you know that... easy and quick is the way to go. It also has a stick editor which will allow you to set up different profiles for your joystick sensitivity settings.
IL2 Stab (http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm#024) Similar to IL2 Manager but without the stick editor and with a Diary feature.
VAC (http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm#047)- Voice ActvatedCommands - This utility is very similar to SHOOT.. it allows you to interact with your PCand thus the sim with voice commands. Very usefull in coops. A bit tricky.. but a good program.
COOP Generator (http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm#005) - A random COOP genrator. I have yet to use it but it looks interesting.
Sniper's Corner (http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/SC_2_Eng.zip) a nice utility to help get the angles aspect of A2A gunnery in your head - Gunnery at AW.C (http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_fwgunnery.htm)-A good explenation of the tool and what is does. Also this entire section at AW.C is a really good resource.