PDA

View Full Version : IL2 FB ended up at 7th place....



F19_Orheim
11-02-2004, 02:45 PM
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/556/556463p4.html

Chuck_Older
11-02-2004, 02:47 PM
Popularity contest. Fluff and heartstrings over content

Von_Zero
11-02-2004, 02:54 PM
I'm starting to get the impression that these guys making reviews and stuff don't know too much about anything... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> taking control of authentic Soviet and Nazi aircraft <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> and they show a 262 in romanian markings??? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

diomedes33
11-02-2004, 03:02 PM
You can't take anything to seriously that doesn't distinguish reality based sims with pure fiction (i.e. Star Wars: Rogue Squadron, Jedi Starfighter). As well as arcade (Secret Weapons over Normandy, Wings of War) with hard core flight sims.

Ketalar
11-02-2004, 03:57 PM
Oh that list is pure bull faeces. Unless they just put the games in a random order in which case they could've just given us all names from the start. How can IL-2:FB and Falcon 4.0 be placed below the top 5!? LO:MAC I can understand due to the bugs and monster system requirements, but geez...

Ok, so let's ponder for a while over the top 5 slots. Which games haven't been mentioned? MS FS2002, MS FS2004, MS CFS3, MS CFS2, MS CFS1, Strike Fighters: Project 1.

Does anyone think SF:P1 will make the top 5? Anyone? Noone? Ok, so who else smells something fishy here?

Von_Zero
11-02-2004, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Ok, so who else smells something fishy here? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*cough*http://www.gosfi.net/images/money.jpg *cough*

Korolov
11-02-2004, 04:18 PM
At least 75% of the games they put into the list there were ****. "Jane's USAF" in the 6th slot? Come on! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

MoeLarryCheese
11-02-2004, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Zero:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Ok, so who else smells something fishy here? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*cough*http://www.gosfi.net/images/money.jpg *cough* <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a good sim, but the jane's series was
far better for their time.
Oleg seems to have dropped the ball in favor
of Soviet/Russian Nationalism. The Soviet
aircraft here are so over modeled and the US
aircraft are so under modeled
as to be suspect to say the least.
If the flight models reflected the truth this
sim would get far better marks.

Sad to say Electronic Arts bailed out of the
flight sim market. They said there was no money
in flight sims. The Jane's series was allowed to die.

MLC

MEGILE
11-02-2004, 04:36 PM
GameSpy smoke crack and talk smack...

LOMAC at 18th place? lol "limited planeset" my ***... F4.0 had 1... bah

Seriously, IL2FB at 7? should be number 1 no doubt

Chuck_Older
11-02-2004, 06:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MoeLarryCheese:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von_Zero:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Ok, so who else smells something fishy here? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
*cough*http://www.gosfi.net/images/money.jpg *cough* <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a good sim, but the jane's series was
far better for their time.
Oleg seems to have dropped the ball in favor
of Soviet/Russian Nationalism. The Soviet
aircraft here are so over modeled and the US
aircraft are so under modeled
as to be suspect to say the least.
If the flight models reflected the truth this
sim would get far better marks.

Sad to say Electronic Arts bailed out of the
flight sim market. They said there was no money
in flight sims. The Jane's series was allowed to die.

MLC <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would argue that, for it's time, Aces of the Pacific was far better than any Jane's sim

rugame
11-02-2004, 08:58 PM
I would second that as well chuck. AOTP was a very entertaining and rewarding sim.

I would even vote SWOTL over A Janes sim.

FatBoyHK
11-02-2004, 09:50 PM
I can name several great game that is not yet in the list, so they will be in the top five? we will see...

SWOTL?
AOTP?
AOE?
PAW?
EAW?
Janes WWII Fighter?
CFS2?

It will be a major letdown if anyone of them are not in the list....but they put Jetfighter up there.... I really really hope there is no CFS3, otherwise I think we need to boycott gamespy....

JtD
11-02-2004, 11:48 PM
*lol* ignorance at it's best.

I'm sorry for everyone who has to rely on such media.

Even Hogans Heroes knew more about the eastern front than this guy does.

Luftwaffe_109
11-03-2004, 12:22 AM
GameSpy, "Who knew there was a big enough air war over Eastern Europe during World War II to warrant a standalone PC flight combat game"... Nuff said.

This type of ignorant attitude always makes me mad. Fact is the Ostfront was far more important to the outcome of the war then all other fronts combined.

MoeLarryCheese
11-03-2004, 01:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Luftwaffe_109:
GameSpy, "Who knew there was a big enough air war over Eastern Europe during World War II to warrant a standalone PC flight combat game"... Nuff said.

This type of ignorant attitude always makes me mad. Fact is the Ostfront was far more important to the outcome of the war then all other fronts combined. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


If time of release is a factor, Jane's F-15
is by far the best flight sim ever released.
IL2 FB is nice, but it's tainted by nationalism.
I was also highly impressed by MS CFS1.
CFS was the best WWII sim of it's time of release.
Jane's WWII Fighters was also a great sim.

Some still feel CFS2 is the best ever. But IMO
it's a dog.

IL2, FB, PF still has potential.
If Oleg ever decides to change things
so as to be an honest flight sim with
no Soviet bias perhaps the critics will
change their minds.

MLC

georgeo76
11-03-2004, 06:23 AM
Don't forget that the original IL2 is not on the list yet. I'd expect to see it do very well. And I think it's fair that the original would do better than the sequel.

SeaFireLIV
11-03-2004, 06:38 AM
Ah, MoeLarryCheese, MoeLarryCheese, MoeLarryCheese....

What are we to do with you and your prejudiced notions?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Shock.jpg
Shock n awe.

clint-ruin
11-03-2004, 08:57 AM
Must admit it's pretty funny seeing Janes F-15 [with its exciting OPERATION: AMERICANS GO KICK PEOPLES *** campaign] lauded and FB bashed as biased in the one post.

Chuck_Older
11-03-2004, 10:08 AM
Well, it's this way, to me:

The effect of a person who knows very little about what a sim is simulating, reveiwing that sim, is a lot like somebody who doesn't know half the features of a game are reveiwing that game.

What does the average person (not even gamer or reveiwer) know about the details of WWII that many people here can talk about? Not much. then you take a reveiwer for a game website, for example, and he reviews a sim like FB.

What's he used to? Game balance for multi-play. Parity in action for AI and human- what the enemy can do, you can do (unlike complex AI for an airplane which is impossible right now for most home PCs), variable skill levels that change parameters across the board.

Above all- the ability to almost completely not know how to do anything in the game, and the ability to give the manual the breifest of glances.

Now that reveiwer goes and reveiws FB, for example. His head will explode. Everything he has been 'taught' to expect from a game is out the window. he reveiws it as a game and not a sim.

F19_Orheim
11-10-2004, 01:23 AM
http://www.gamespy.com/articles/556/556463p5.html?fromint=1


Well, MS FLight Simulator 2004 ended up #1, no sight of ANY MS Combat Flight Simulator http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Aeronautico
11-10-2004, 04:54 AM
And MS FLight Simulator 2002 #2. And I thought it was the same game but patched... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Oh, I see there are 2x Crimson Skies in the first five positions, too! Talking about "simulation"... Cool! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

269GA-Maxmars
11-10-2004, 05:29 AM
Here's the description of one "sim" that ended in the list:

---------------------
Nobody said the flying had to be motorize right? Good because Flying Heroes gives us the, ahem, reins of flying dragons, giant birds, zeppelins and of course, teapots. You're battling enemies in a fantastic world where things come to life and fly and where dragons can hover and fly backwards just like helicopters. Perfect for all the shooting that needs to get done. As for the enchanted flying teapots, only one faction in the game uses magic to get things to fly, so you might be more comfortable starting off with a flying carpet. Some of the most affordable flying fun out there.
---------------------

Let's face it, people have fun simulating flight in ways we would only laugh about.. And we shouldn't be condescending with them!

TgD Thunderbolt56
11-10-2004, 06:02 AM
I tried to read that list with an unbiased view. Even so, I take some extreme issue with their reasoning and overall decision.

I would typically just giggle and point at the obvious display of ignorance, but the fact that people actually read this cr@p and use it to make selections is cause for concern...if only passive.

TB



.

Opiate364
11-10-2004, 07:41 AM
I must say that Ace Combat 4 was a fun game, but to compare that to Il2? Its apples and oranges. Besides, I wasn't shocked at the conclusions nor do I care.

MOhz
11-10-2004, 08:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Ah, MoeLarryCheese, MoeLarryCheese, MoeLarryCheese....

What are we to do with you and your prejudiced notions? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

need backup http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif ?!

LilHorse
11-10-2004, 08:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MoeLarryCheese:
Oleg seems to have dropped the ball in favor
of Soviet/Russian Nationalism. The Soviet
aircraft here are so over modeled and the US
aircraft are so under modeled
as to be suspect to say the least.
If the flight models reflected the truth this
sim would get far better marks.
MLC <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dang! Not this old saw again! National bias? If you're flying anything other than the Yak-3/9 or La-5/7 series you're in big trouble against anybody who's competent in a 109 or a 190. And those LW flyers who are good can handle all but the very best flying the above mentioned planes. Know why they are the way they are in the game? Because they were pretty much that way in the war (and don't worry about my "bias" cuz I'm mostly a 109 flyer). Those Yaks and La's were some of the best fighters produced in the war.

And as for the American planes being undermodeled.... you're crazy. Flown right you should be getting a kill per sortie. Even in a P-40. The P-51, P-38 and P-47 are the monster BnZ fighters in this game. The only things that are comparable are the Dora and the 152.

GvSAP_Wingnut
11-10-2004, 09:04 AM
"Top 25 Flying Games of All Time" is a pretty broad genre. I don't see where they considered all these games serious sims.

sunflower1
11-10-2004, 09:09 AM
I thought declarations of prejudice were supposed to be backed by publically available data or they were out of bounds and against the terms of use.

Something like, "out of spec by more than 3-5% with devicelink and tracks to show the inaccuracy."

Art has to have a point of view, period. If you can't focus on the one chosen or don't like it, either its bad art or you don't appreciate it. The solution in both cases is the same, there's no point arguing the cause. To think that this game is anything other than art is to miss the point entirely. Mr. Maddox and his team work in a digital format, but that is where technology ends and creativity begins. To argue about bias is to forget its part of what you're paying for when you buy art- you want somebody else's expression in your life.

A little over 100 years ago there was a conscious effort made by the Czar to move Russia toward the west in terms of forms of commerce, diplomacy, art, industry, etc. It came from a realization that intellectual capital had to be mobilized or the vast agrarian confederation would never stay wealthy enough to cohere under an autocracy. It was a region of the world where things changed very slowly, if at all, and life was very, very hard.

In a series of very costly events in human terms, Russia mobilized intellectual capital and 100 years later can produce something on the leading edge of entertainment technology. 1C is dearly paid for and its members cannot help but be aware of what it took to get them into a position of being able to produce it. Isn't some level of pride, and a tinge of defensiveness, what you'd expect to find? Wouldn't this game lack something critical if it was missing? I enjoy very much that I own a fine piece of art produced by people who have been potential enemies. I also enjoy that it encourages an ongoing exchange of trade. It makes it that much less likely that anyone is going to have good cause to switch from digital to real ammunition.

Those guys could be designing weapons systems for the top bidder, so what if maybe they model their planes on best case data? That's a small price to pay for being friendly with them.

adlabs6
11-10-2004, 12:08 PM
Comparing GA and combat sims in the same list is too broad, much less comparing arcade and sims to each other.

FS2004 as the winner is a very flexible program. I really hope that Olegs next sim has this sort of flexibility for offline players. There are loads of guys in this community that could built great content.

My brother and I designed, modeled, textured, and released as freeware this fictional glider, the "MAG Basis 15" for FS2004. About three or four months effort, and it works great in FS, which has nice SDK info out there for developers.

Renders in trueSpace 5.2:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/adlabs6/ts_render.jpg

The virtual cockpit in FS2004, with my custom gauges and working GPS:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/adlabs6/vcc2.jpg

We've considered a warbird, but there's little enjoyment of them in a non combat game. Certainly our investing this (or even more) time in a plane project for FB would be a waste of time, as I'm near postitive our efforts would have a snowballs chance of seeing release. If FB had an open ended offline addon system, things would be very different.

As I said before, I do hope Maddox considers a more flexible offline addon system, and allows use of great freeware 3D software packages like Gmax, MayaPLE, or XSI tools. The game would be all the better for it.

F19_Gazoo
11-10-2004, 12:45 PM
mmm, are the games in the Star Wars universe really flight sims....? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Nope I don´t think so, and I had great fun with DID´s F22 ADF, F22 TAW and Jane´s F15.

But this is GameSpy.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif