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View Full Version : DCG vs DGEN for single player campaign generation



XyZspineZyX
08-26-2005, 04:50 PM
Hello

I am wondering what offline campaign players think of these 2 campaign generator programs, what advantages,disadvantages they have over each other & what issues or bugs have been encountered when using these programs & overall which do you think is superior & why

han freak solo
08-26-2005, 10:00 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif Me too!

faelas
08-26-2005, 10:27 PM
There is absolutely no comparrison. DCG is hands down the better option. You can use DCG to do anything from changing the plane your squadron flies in mid-campaign, to changing the number of kills your AI wingman has credited, and even see a picture of him. You can do stuff with DCG that you can't do with DGen like specifying what mission type you prefer, you can choose a "night only" campaign (and then switch back to daytime at any time), you can change the skin of every plane in your squadron, and even give each AI in your unit his own plane and pilot skin. There is very little you can't do with DCG.

faelas
08-26-2005, 10:33 PM
Oh, and it's all totally easy too. You can even set it to automatically work in the background, and even when DCG is not actually running IL2 will call the DCG program for all mission data.

Another benefit of DCG is that even if you just set it to automatic and never touch anything, you will see that you get more variety in missions, flight paths, ect.

Plus, DCG runs the rest of the war for you. You will be able to effect the progress of the front lines by killing enemy tanks. When you blow something up, it stays blown up. If you kill an enemy tank collum, the enemy will send a supply truck to that area to resupply the ground forces there, which you can also blow up to stall their re-inforcements. You can destroy enemy trains to keep them from being able to retreat, you can blow away AAA guns today in prep for a mission into enemy territory tomorrow.

I can't say enough about DCG. Get it.

XyZspineZyX
08-26-2005, 11:52 PM
The fact that DCG controls the campaign allowing you to influence the war effort & front line apply to historical campaigns eg luftwaffe fighter pilot Western front lets say Normandy. If you do well enough you could repel the invasion? Or does this apply to the non historical campaigns such as Grand Fatherland & Grand South, done by Tailspin, (magnificent campaigns by the way if you havnt tried them try em)

money_money
08-27-2005, 12:54 AM
sold

ROTS_Jason
08-27-2005, 01:01 AM
Where can those campaigns by mr tailspin be found? (not to change the subject or anything http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

dieg777
08-27-2005, 01:25 AM
I play exclusivly off line and have used both programs. Unfortunatly because I have a butterfly brain I like to flit between campaigns and usually have 4 or 5 at various stages. I have found that I cannot get DCG to run this wAY in full auto mode as it seems to corrupt missions, but I have used it to tailor a nice france 39 campaign flying huricanes, to suit my preferences for number of flights, strength, misson type etc and this works great.
DCG also offers more campaign types over standard.
I am sure that if I had the time to spend and get to understand DCG then I would get better use from it.

I would recommend that anyone who has not used it to give it a try - but for both I would recommend that you back up your pilot and campaign files as there is nothing more infuriating than losing your campaign.

JtD
08-27-2005, 01:38 AM
I once tested DCG and found it insufficient. I tried to make a small multiplayer-coop campaign on the Prokhorovka map. I asked for short flight distances around 30 km so me and my friends wouldn't have to fly 10 minutes without anything happening.

The problem was that DCG set a frontline somewhere out in the nowhere, more than 30 km away from all bases. So the campaign went like this:

do
Mission1: Transfer A->B
Mission2: Transfer B->C
Mission3: Transfer C->A
loop until end of days

Anyway, apart from that DCG allows for more tweaks and is more variable.

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2005, 02:16 AM
DCG has a known transfer bug if you turn this off in the game options area it stops the transfer maddness

SeaFireLIV
08-27-2005, 03:38 AM
There`s no doubt that DCG is better. It has all the twiddles to make your Campaign truly worth flying. No matter how much i fly DGEN (and it`s reasonably ok), I can never be bothered much because taking out that convoy, that airfield tower, those tanks, makes no difference.

In DCG, EVERY TARGET hit makes a difference. This is what makes the offline sim worth coming back to, just to see how the war`s going you can win or lose, so you REALLY feel the need to FIGHT! In DGEN, Eastern Front, it`s pointless because as ALLies you`ll always win, even if you make a total mess of things...

Also, the ability to name/skin your own Squad and much more is quite amazing...

Amagi
08-27-2005, 04:09 AM
DGen can be used to simulate the course of actual battles, which is very difficult to achieve with DCG. The player can influence the battle by destroying ground objects in DGen, though this might be restricted to capturing or failing to capture one town. If I wanted to set up DGen so that the Germans had a chance to 'capture Moscow' in 1941, I could. Other versions of the war seem too far from history.

DCG is also restricted to a portion of some maps, making the existing battlefields even smaller, and combines this with being difficult to run on a low or medium powered system. DGen limits the amount of moving ground objects automatically, which helps frame rates, though the limits may be too restrictive.

There are also problems with the basic concept of DCG which can lead to the player having to intervene constantly to keep the land war going, defeating the purpose of the dynamic battlefield. Only the targets along one 'path' influence the ground combat- where there is more than one 'path' the chances that the player will have to intervene against forces that have slipped 'past' superior forces increase.

DGen still can't place plane types into squadrons, though this may change. It should produce missions with more variety than DCG, but the standard unimproved templates don't allow this.

DCG might be the better option in the Pacific, where there are campaigns like New Guinea and Guadalcanal which are based on progress along a single 'path'. However, the Japanese still wouldn't have a chance to conquer the Allies, because of restrictions caused by the maps...

UberDemon
08-27-2005, 05:35 PM
Main difference between the 2 is that DGen/NGen are integrated with the Sim engine, and DCG is truly a 3rd party tool. Starshoy (the creator of DGen/NGen) was a part of the original IL-2 test team. At some point Starshoy and Luthier teamed up and created QuickGen, that basically was a sort of quasi-dynamic static campaign generator... that is, it created a static set of missions for a scenario but used the random features inherent in the original IL-2 campaign system -- but it was easy on the users, and that was so cool. Starshoy is a talented individual (as well as Luthier), and he actually provided me with the original list of regimental units when I was writing the original UQMG for IL-2 Sturmovik. His work so impressed Oleg that when Forgotten Battles was planned, DGen was incorporated in the release as a truly integrated dynamic campaign system (that is, it was a part of the user interface, and most importantly it was an official supported feature of FB/AEP).

Lowengrin created DCG for IL-2/FB/PF as a similar type of campaign generator that he created for the CFS series. Lowengrin is not officially associated with Oleg, as far as I know, pretty much like me. He created DCG as a complementary tool to Oleg's Sim. On some levels, some users use DCG as a substitution to the sim's native campaign engine (DGen), because it has several features that can be tweaked, as mentioned in this thread.

DCG is much more than a campaign generator though, and I think people give it less credit than it deserves. Besides its primary perceived function, it can generate random one-time SP missions with certain parameters specified. It can also generate DF arenas, as well as Coop-Missions. It is a truly flexible tool. But the heart of DCG is really the campaigns (I say that in a shameless self-promotion to my own tool, UQMG, which is made for non-campaign players, and because I feel quite inferior to more talented programmers such as Lowengrin, Starshoy, Shift_E, and CrazySchmidt). It is quite flexible in setting the parameters for the type of campaign you would like to play. At one point, I remember ignoring the update work I was doing in my own tool, UQMG, for about a week because I was having too much fun with DCG. Dammit!

I believe both tools are outstanding. Considering what I know of the FB/PF engine, and how missions behave, the work on both applications is short of amazing. Many users criticize the campaign behavior of the sim, but the truth is that it is quite complex to make software work, especially when the programmer is not getting paid for it (not sure what kind of compensation Starshoy is getting, however, I don't think he is a billionaire because of DGen/NGen alone).

I say use both for the strengths that both provide.

Demon/UberDemon
Get UQMG at http://www.uberdemon.com

Bearcat99
09-03-2007, 06:04 AM
Bumparooski..

(or ... Ahhhh isnt a working search feature great..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

cmirko
09-04-2007, 05:44 AM
take a look at my sig and find 102nd_COOP_ded on Hl - you can take part in 5 DCG campaigns on eastern front....

Haigotron
09-04-2007, 09:02 AM
Ok so here's a follow up question (not a hijack question http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ), which DCG mode do you use? I am using full replacement of DGEN, but I find that alot of missions aren't really working out -> example, 4 flights to destroy 1 tank... Mission failed as soon as I take off. I know I can change it all in the files, but is there another mode that works better overall?

Also, UQMG can be used along side DCG right?

SeaFireLIV
09-04-2007, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by Haigotron:
Ok so here's a follow up question (not a hijack question http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ), which DCG mode do you use? I am using full replacement of DGEN, but I find that alot of missions aren't really working out -> example, 4 flights to destroy 1 tank... Mission failed as soon as I take off. I know I can change it all in the files, but is there another mode that works better overall?

Also, UQMG can be used along side DCG right?

You do have `No Instant missions` to off I hope? Because in DCG there`s no real win or lose until the end of the war itself. If one tank is destroyed before you get to it that just means your target was busted up inthe midst of war, take out targets of opportunity or go home.

Ignore the Mission failed title that comes up at start, it`s not relevent.

DuxCorvan
09-04-2007, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Bumparooski..

(or ... Ahhhh isnt a working search feature great..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

I hate when you do that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Well, at least it isn't one of those tacky 'Show ya bum', 'This is me in my boat with my fat kid' photo threads. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Haigotron
09-04-2007, 03:58 PM
You do have `No Instant missions` to off I hope? Because in DCG there`s no real win or lose until the end of the war itself. If one tank is destroyed before you get to it that just means your target was busted up inthe midst of war, take out targets of opportunity or go home.

Yes i do have it off. also checked to make sure the relevant option in the DCG's options was correctly set.