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XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 08:49 PM
So oleg, you written in my post..last week.
About the "BF 109 high altitude performance"
wait..do you mean that I have wrong? Do you never watch Discovery? or read on webpages? or books?

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 08:49 PM
So oleg, you written in my post..last week.
About the "BF 109 high altitude performance"
wait..do you mean that I have wrong? Do you never watch Discovery? or read on webpages? or books?

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 08:58 PM
Germans planes was better in high altitude..for exampel the fw-190..here is some info.
The small Fw 190 was one of the greatest fighters of WWII. Designed by Dr. Kurt Tank, the Fw 190 was built as a sturdy all-round fighter, rather than a lightweight interceptor; but the early Fw 190A's nevertheless proved clearly superior to the Spitfire Mk.V. The Fw 190 was a better fighter than the Bf 109, except at high altitude. The radial-engine Fw 190 was also succesfully developed into a series of fighter-bombers. The Fw 190D-series used a liquid-cooled Junkers engine instead of the radial BMW, and had increased span and length. The Fw 190D was a very good high-altitude interceptor, equal to the P-51D or Spitfire XIV and without the altitude limitations of the Fw 190A. and here is the hompage mr oleg http://www.fighter-planes.com/info/fw190.htm

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 09:00 PM
This one'll go far ...

Sorry, since my recent promotion I've become infatuated with my post count and thought I'd pad it.

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 05:54 AM
would high altitude be considered anything over 7500m?

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 06:47 AM
BigganD wrote:
- So oleg, you written in my post..last week.
- About the "BF 109 high altitude performance"
- wait..do you mean that I have wrong? Do you never
- watch Discovery? or read on webpages? or books?
-
-

No Buggan, OM doesn`t read books or watches Discovery... he saw a dream once about 109`s and 190`s...and all other planes...and he decided to make IL2 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub


Message Edited on 10/02/0306:48AM by crazyivan1970

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 08:19 AM
hehe :P

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 08:47 AM
"High alt performance", is a very relative, and also subjective term, Biggan. You might want to think about more carefully, before this turns into a very ugly debate, which I'm pretty sure it's gonna.

A plane being 'better at high alt', can mean many things.





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XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 09:35 AM
Yes, I know, but I just want to show the true thing about german planes.

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 01:28 PM
What is the purpose of this thread ?




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Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
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XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 08:43 AM
BigganD wrote:
- So oleg, you written in my post..last week.
- About the "BF 109 high altitude performance"
- wait..do you mean that I have wrong? Do you never
- watch Discovery? or read on webpages? or books?
-
-

YEAH, watch a television show, read a few webpages and make a flightsim about it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 12:57 AM
Discovery Wings is the worst place to learn things about WW2 plane's performance. They're fun to watch but as far as accurate info in a non biased POV is concerned you're better off reading a book.

Glasses-"I may have four eyes but you only have one wing"

"Kurt Tank is your daddy"

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 01:06 PM
Glassess wrote:
- Discovery Wings is the worst place to learn things
- about WW2 plane's performance. They're fun to watch
- but as far as accurate info in a non biased POV is
- concerned you're better off reading a book.
-
- Glasses-"I may have four eyes but you only have one
- wing"
-
- "Kurt Tank is your daddy"

He might be refering to the discovery channel, wich is european. I find them quite right.


I heard from some of the mistakes they made on history channel. But, it isn't available here so, I can't judge that.


1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 07:55 PM
The thing about discovery is they have different information in various series. Sometimes "battlefield" has different info on stuff then say.... "weapons of war". Technical information is hastingly put forward but that does not make any difference to me - I don't watch Discovery for the technical details but for the historical research and interviews with old veterans of war.

As far as Discovery being biased it entirly depends on the series or episode. For example - i saw an epsode in the "flightpath" series on the spitfire and there it was said to be superiour to the 109 (and anything else that flew in WW2http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif entirly apart from what the pilot of the last flying 109 said (may he rest in peace). i think his name was mark hanna or somthing similar. But when i was watching this David... somthing guy in an episode about the battle of britain he described numerous advantages in favour of the 109 but said "but it's 1 on 1 superiourity was effectively cancelled by Goerings order that the 109s stay close to the bombers". and this coming from an english war-historian.

so i don't think discovery is biased - just inconsistent.

They go a long way describing the Panther's and Tiger's superiority - i lauged my a$$ off when the tank expert at some museum was bashing the english made armour using words like "terrible" or "utterly ineffective" and even making fun of them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif They talk about the uberness of german infantry weapons - and almost ridiculed the "bazooka" in comparison with panzerfaust/schreck. And most importantly they describe in detail various brilliant campaigns by German gernerals like Manstein etc. And they are in love with Wittmann.

some of their episodes suck but some are brilliant. I was just watching the "Battlefield - Scandinavia" Brilliant stuff !



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XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 10:05 PM
Yep, thor, in two words: commercial history. That`s what Discovery Channel is. They never go deep, or depart from cliches and myth. Just so the watcher stays comfortable... As for my part, I watch those series for the excellent videofootage they have...I`d love if the narrative could raise to those heights! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://vo101isegrim.piranho.com/FB-desktopweb.jpg
'Only a dead Indianer is a good Indianer!'

Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 01:05 AM
in a way i disagree. like i said before sometimes they have episodes going into detail about a single event and then often the research is good and "myths" and "cliches" are often disputed or challenged. on the other hand when they are covering a huge campaign or series of events in one epsode or two they often use the "short version" to describe events. events that sometimes are a little "off-topic" for a specific episode most often are dealt with briefly.

but i do think Discovery does a good job with historical research and most importantly they put forward both sides of the story (most of the time). for example when "battlefield" dealt with the second battle of el alamein they had one historian describing the brilliance of Monty's attack while another historian described it as a failure - to let rommel escape with most of his (german) forces. another example was "Battlefield - Caen" where a good part of the episode gloryfied how Wittmann halted "operation goodfoot" almost working alone.

so like i said before i do not consider them biased - nor do i think they are doing commercial history - actually most people i know really dont like these series - series like "byzantium" draw many more to the screen.

but its pityful how they exclude the russians in their series - very little research into what they were doing.

i would like to do a series for Discovery called "forgotten battles" - i wonder if oleg would sue me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:06 AM
johann_thor, the germans had better ground forces, then I mean in moral,tanks,and the german hand guns...but the german air force was a failure.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 11:45 AM
yes i agree - but that was not because their fighters sucked - let alone their pilots. "Milch" - "Udet" - "Goering" were stupid nazi-idiots and it is not worth the typing to talk about certain events they screwed up - but i would rather say that they did not take one sound decision in the whole course of the war. the alied airforces were independent, well organized and had excellent leadership.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:10 PM
johann_thor wrote:
- The thing about discovery is they have different
- information in various series. Sometimes
- "battlefield" has different info on stuff then
- say.... "weapons of war". Technical information is
- hastingly put forward but that does not make any
- difference to me - I don't watch Discovery for the
- technical details but for the historical research
- and interviews with old veterans of war.
-
True, like me.It is often that they need some quick info on the Bf-109 for a Battle of Brittain show (for example) and they take the info for the 109G6. I still consider Discovery channel quite historical correct. I just heard some funny stories about History channel. (wich we don't have)

-
- As far as Discovery being biased it entirly depends
- on the series or episode. For example - i saw an
- epsode in the "flightpath" series on the spitfire
- and there it was said to be superiour to the 109
- (and anything else that flew in WW2/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif entirly apart
- from what the pilot of the last flying 109 said (may
- he rest in peace). i think his name was mark hanna
- or somthing similar. But when i was watching this
- David... somthing guy in an episode about the battle
- of britain he described numerous advantages in
- favour of the 109 but said "but it's 1 on 1
- superiourity was effectively cancelled by Goerings
- order that the 109s stay close to the bombers". and
- this coming from an english war-historian.

That was the case with the 110's, yes? The 109's just didn't have enough fuel capacity to fight the english in the BoB.
-
- so i don't think discovery is biased - just
- inconsistent.

True

-
- some of their episodes suck but some are brilliant.
- I was just watching the "Battlefield - Scandinavia"
- Brilliant stuff !

Cool, I hope I can see it another time. (they keep on repeating old episodes over and over anyways, I like that)


1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:30 PM
hehe..but the german luftwaffa pilots was "elite" all they way to the end of the war..