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xolox
11-14-2004, 02:34 PM
See this movie‚"*"
http://www.geocities.jp/shuriken1jp/Zero.mpg

This Zero(A6M5) is Only one flyable sample with original SAKAE engine.Captured at Saipan at war time,
restored in 1970's.Owner:The air museum Planes of fame. http://www.planesoffame.org/
Air show in japan In 1995.
It seems that Zero's roll rate is not so slow as in FB,PF.
I heard Zero can roll faster left than right.
This is right rotation.the slower one.
So please bring zeros close to it a little bit faster.hehe

Chuck_Older
11-14-2004, 02:43 PM
Nice try. That link is apparently an add for a handbag cosmetic kit.

Oleg got his data from Japanese sources.

As for roll rate for the A6M5 you saw, did it have a full load of fuel? Did it have equipment removed or modern equipment added? Did it have the cannons in the wings?

It's hard to use a currently flying example of these planes to 'prove' a WWII example was the saem in performance. The contemporary example must be equipped as a battle-ready aircraft would have been during the war

To my knowledge, the only flyable Zero has a US manufatured radial in it, unless one of the more recent restorations has taken to the air and I haven't heard about it, which is entirely possible. The museum link has no technical info that I could see.

PS

if that link is just a mistake, bear in mind that not everyone can read Japanese. This is an English speaking forum, after all

xolox
11-14-2004, 02:48 PM
Sorry I've got mistake.The movie file is
http://www.forum-jp.net/upload/2/src/up0385.rar
(It will disapper in about a week)

Chuck_Older
11-14-2004, 02:50 PM
thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

xolox
11-14-2004, 02:53 PM
**** it.
NAME:up0385.rar

xolox
11-14-2004, 03:25 PM
onemore link
http://www.fileup.org/file/fup2084.rar
sorry,I'm not used to this thing.
and I can't communicate in English well.
So I may not reply for other's replys.

sapre
11-14-2004, 04:33 PM
How fast was it flying?
if it's below 350kmh, it wont be any proof.

xolox
11-14-2004, 05:32 PM
This rolling pass must be below 300km/h.
I tried and found it seems same at that speed.
I don't know how it rolls at high speed.
Please delete this thread.

VW-IceFire
11-14-2004, 07:13 PM
Neat to see a real Zero in-flight. Something very rare and very impressive.

The roll rate there seems pretty on par with the one in-game.

Something about the real planes makes them a bit different than the ones you see in game. Makes me remember its still just computer and still just a game/sim of the real world. I watched some Duxford videos and noticed how things do look a little different in real life...but on the other hand, I noticed the little wobble that the Spitfire has when it rolls and turns is the same one in the game...its really neat that way.

Keep in mind as well that the airshow versions are not going to have all of the fuel, armor, or armament (the 20mm cannons weren't lightweight things by any stretch of the imagination).

pourshot
11-15-2004, 12:15 AM
Looks to me like that zero is rolling very slow considering it's low airspeed in that flyby.

Dont think you want to use that one as proof.

LuftLuver
11-15-2004, 03:51 PM
Here ya go, should keep you busy for 1/2 hour or so. Go nuts big boy.

http://dsp.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p764306reg.jpg

http://www.thegully.com/essays/puertorico/puertorico_img/deadhorse.jpg

BSS_Vidar
11-15-2004, 04:14 PM
The Zeke was never known for superior roll rate. The faster it got the worse it got. However, nothing beats its pitch and climb charateristics. That's why you never try to yank-n-bank with'em.

The reason why they were inhibited rolling to the left was due to engine torque. They became very predictable allways rolling to the right with the torque.

This goes all the way back to tactics developed by the Flying Tigers. Boyington took that information and modified it to meet tactics requirements in the Solomons.

"Allways fly in pairs, and never-ever turn on your target. Extend, then re-attack."

Willey
11-15-2004, 05:08 PM
Bull****!

It had a great roll rate alt lower speeds, but bad roll rates at high speeds, worse than 109s. But in FB, it's rolling like a bus even at 200kph. And funnily, the A6M2 rolls best, with most wingspan http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Maybe that one is right, but all the others are undermodelled.

BSS_Vidar
11-15-2004, 05:42 PM
I Bull**** you not!!!

You just said basically what I said. The faster it went the worse the roll got.

The Zeke never had a superior roll rate, I didn't say it had a bad one.

It's strength was in pitch authority and great climb performance.

Idle - boards dude. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VF-29_Sandman
11-15-2004, 07:55 PM
wildcats were left in the dust on climb rate alone with the zero. maybe that's ur problem.

pdog1
11-15-2004, 09:52 PM
Zero is undermodeled because this pig dog game is designed to apeal to brain dead infidel americans who think jap planes should fly like **** because thats what there ******ed grandfathers said. HATE

XyZspineZyX
11-15-2004, 10:24 PM
Hmm, I was under the impression that the Zero had a mediocre roll rate, even at slow speeds.

In any case, unless there is a timestamp on each frame in that video, roll rate inferences cannot be made because the playback rate of the movie is not necessarily realtime. (And of course there are the equipment and fuel issues that others have mentioned as well.)

xolox
11-15-2004, 10:36 PM
BTW
That movie,it will never be lost for a long time
http://www.geocities.jp/shuriken1jp/nununu/Zero.mpg

And one more,showing Zero's amazing climb.
http://www.geocities.jp/shuriken1jp/nununu/zero-p51.mpg

xolox
11-15-2004, 10:41 PM
oops,failed again.
why?
it could be seen in another BBS.

xolox
11-16-2004, 08:41 AM
‚"*ėcopy&paste url.

Chuck_Older
11-16-2004, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pdog1:
Zero is undermodeled because this pig dog game is designed to apeal to brain dead infidel americans who think jap planes should fly like **** because thats what there ******ed grandfathers said. HATE <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't be serious

p1ngu666
11-16-2004, 11:55 AM
huge alirons should make it roll very good at low speed
if u dont belive me, then why do arobatic aircraft have 1/3rd of wing, and full span alirons, and get some **** awful roll rate of 400degrees a second.
at low speed, they should, everything being equal, be far better than fw190s roll for example

xolox
11-16-2004, 12:37 PM
Huge alirons like zero perform good control at low speed,and causes restriction of rolling at high speed.
Yes,I already understand naturaly because I have flown radio control airplanes.I know it well.
But I guess zeros in this game too slow over 300km/h. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

BSS_Vidar
11-16-2004, 01:44 PM
To put it in another light... The Zekes superiority wasn't in "Roll Rate", but rather in "Rate of Turn" and "Turn Radious" using elevator. When I fly a Zeke in a F4F vs Zeke room I own Wildcats that try to turn fight with me.

Keep your "lift vector" on your attacker and he'll eventually overshoot you. If he tries to reverse his turn, he's all yours.

VW-IceFire
11-16-2004, 06:16 PM
Are you guys playing the same game I am? The Zero's roll rate in Pacific Fighters is greatly improved over the one in AEP 2.04. It now rolls fairly rapidly below 400 IAS. Above that its very sluggish...in general the A6M's are much superior now than they were before. Climb, turn, and roll to a lesser extent are better...the result is that good pilots can beat less experienced pilots flying F4U's without too much trouble if the right tactics are employed and the F4U pilots want to get into a fight.

Its not a superb plane in my view...not after 1943 anyways but its not bad. In the post 1943 area I'd prefer to fly the George but since thats not available the Ki-84 does the trick http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

pdog1
11-16-2004, 09:07 PM
Shut up chuck pls, go fly your overmodeled USN corsairs that climb better than Komets.
You CAN'T be serious thats you can't see the biased, you must be legally blind.

Korolov
11-17-2004, 01:28 AM
Pman:

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/crazyivan_ban.jpg
and
http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

anarchy52
11-17-2004, 04:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AgentBif:
Hmm, I was under the impression that the Zero had a mediocre roll rate, even at slow speeds.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What do You think those enormous ailerons are for?

Chuck_Older
11-17-2004, 07:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pdog1:
Shut up chuck pls, go fly your overmodeled USN corsairs that climb better than Komets.
You CAN'T be serious thats you can't see the biased, you must be legally blind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heehee! You're so unbiased

LEXX_Luthor
11-17-2004, 08:24 AM
pdog hates Americans


Our grandfathers told us Japp planes flew great, very most dangerous, but we skipp over that part of their stories, and we expect Oleg to skipp that also. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

MOhz
11-17-2004, 08:52 AM
What he said was not right, but I think that what you are saying is also not nice.

xolox
11-17-2004, 09:55 AM
Huge alirons are not for fast roll at low speed,but for "can" control stably even at low speed.
If they are small at the edge of wings,unstable at low speed,but stable at high speed.
In my idea,Zeros should have been stable at low speed,because they were designed for carrier operation.
Light planes are dangerous under the influence„‚ā¨‚ā¨of wind.
But,it„‚ā¨‚ā¨causes the sacrifice of„‚ā¨‚ā¨maneuvers at high speed.
But,but,I don't think„‚ā¨‚ā¨they made it messed up dogfight abilities that was their duty.
This video is full span aliron RC flying model.http://www.funplanes.com/videos/SX2Baron.wmv
slow speed,but great control&movement.

Chuck_Older
11-17-2004, 10:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MOhz:
What he said was not right, but I think that what you are saying is also not nice. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should quote the person you're replying to.

Was this for me? What exactly did I say that was so wrong?

FA_Maddog
11-17-2004, 04:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pdog1:
Zero is undermodeled because this pig dog game is designed to apeal to brain dead infidel americans who think jap planes should fly like **** because thats what there ******ed grandfathers said. HATE <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Just another example of why drugs shouldn't be legal.

LEXX_Luthor
11-17-2004, 05:45 PM
pdrugs http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

GR142_Astro
11-18-2004, 12:26 AM
Is it possible that a high percentage of allied players went into Pacific Fighters with the knowledge and preparedness of what kind of fight would and would not work?

There were no lessons to be learned because many of us have been students of history to some degree. The first Zeros I met online, I treated with care and stayed away from the propellor/pointy end. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

My speed was high and I dispatched them while they wildly twisted and turned below me. You can't out-run or out-turn a well placed snapshot.

I remember all the talk that Hellcat and Corsair pilots would be crying because they couldn't out turn the Zero. I think most of us were smart enough to never try, thus there were no "happy times" for the IJN players.

Korolov
11-18-2004, 01:28 AM
I've ran into plenty of Corsie/Hellcat pilots who tried to turn with the Zeke. I don't think the lesson has been globally learned (yet).

pourshot
11-18-2004, 01:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
I've ran into plenty of Corsie/Hellcat pilots who tried to turn with the Zeke. I don't think the lesson has been globally learned (yet). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here, I think they still fail to extend far enough and you can slowly wear them down for the kill ( so long as he's alone )