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View Full Version : RAMMING BOMBERS in HYPERLOBBY!!!



HunglikePony
12-23-2005, 03:09 PM
Peoples who do this pathetic and bad pilots! You not know how long and hard bomber pilot try to get high then you come along and attack from 6 oclock and fly right into hims!!!

I here to say that ure pathetic excuses of,
"You shot out my controls, I could not turn", and
"I blacked out" etc etc etc are just not worth typing on screen.

If you have rammed bomber, for whatever reason, REAL TRUTH is that you attack from wrong angle and attack too close! Which be meaning that YOU ARE POOR FIGHTER PILOT!!!

If ramming for you is always happen, then don't attack bombers, STAY AWAY, come back when you have the skills needed to match high skill level of bomber pilot, then we fight it out like men at 4000m, instead of you like some arcade kid playing donkey kong!

You want to tackle bombers, then you must fly like real fighter pilot, no room for kids at 3000m +, just men!!!!

PBNA-Boosher
12-23-2005, 03:11 PM
RANT RANT RANT I'm A GUY WHO CAN'T LEARN HOW TO FIRE BACK AND MANEUVER!

carguy_
12-23-2005, 03:13 PM
I thought people ram bombers on purpose.

HunglikePony
12-23-2005, 03:16 PM
You must be rammer!

Bomber on final bomb run with sights on target not zig and zag all over, he leave shooting to gunners and gets on with his job to drop bombs on TARGET!!!!

Also mr Rammer, when bomber on way to target he can manouevre by all means but bomber manouevre very slow and easy to ram, as you know, but still means that fighter pilot gets too close!! TOO CLOSE!!!!! Watch guncam footage, see ranges of and angles of attack on bombers, this not happen in IL2 as all fighter pilots like to swap paint with bombers....like fools!!! and spoil game this does for real bomber pilots!!

HunglikePony
12-23-2005, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
I thought people ram bombers on purpose.

Hello mister,

Yes they does do this! It very poor form (like they say this in ingland)

Badsight.
12-23-2005, 03:18 PM
Boosher , do you only post here now to rant back at people ?

hunglikepony , sometimes in a high speed attack you get it wrong & dont break soon enough & Ramm the bomber

HunglikePony
12-23-2005, 03:22 PM
thank you badsight for reply,

but that my point, if ure attack is high speed and closing too fast (you will see this coming as fighter pilot) then be disciplined and break off and come again, instead pilots ride plane right into back of bomber.....then the excuses they come http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

All I asking is pilots to remember that man in bomber is online person trying to have fun just like hims, not fun to be flying along and all of sudden plane smashed into millions pieces after taking 30 minutes to get big fat heinkel to 4000m!!

MB_Avro_UK
12-23-2005, 03:26 PM
Hi all,

Chill pill needed...take two with a beer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

From my experience this situation results from the following causes:

1. Too fast approach by the fighter.

2. Too eager for the kill.

3. Possible lag/latency problems.

4. Not enough 'chill pills' or beer!

Best Regards,
MB_Avro

carguy_
12-23-2005, 04:00 PM
Yeah whatever I could brag all day like once in a while I have a sortie where I fly over target to protect it.The flight durates through 40minutes of hopeless flying around trying to spot those blasted dots.In the end nothing shows up,I have low fuel,return to base and quit mission now that is frustrating.

Dew-Claw
12-23-2005, 04:55 PM
Real bad manners not to line up in my gunsights imedeatly after takeoff

Jetbuff
12-23-2005, 05:04 PM
Ramming sucks - usually for both parties. I don't mind the high speed rams as they usually involve a misjudgement or possibly a badly timed stutter/freeze. However, the rammers that really get to me are the ones that close slowly but surely on your tail to run into you. This isn't real war, so that type of heroism is unwarranted.

That said, there are all sorts of reasons why people ram you as listed above. Here are a few more:
1. He didn't see you in the first place and was maneuvering against another target and not looking straight ahead.

2. He got his controls shot out and could do nothing about it.

3. His 3 year old/pet just clambered on to his lap just as he was about to fire.

i.e. I doubt there are people out there who ram intentionally on a regular basis. Those who do are easily avoidable; just drop from angels 8 where only the smart pilots fly. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
12-23-2005, 05:07 PM
Face it...most people can barely fly. Attacking a gun bristling twin engined bomber is a nearly impossible task to pull off effectively for these people.

You can tell the difference between the veterans and the rookies when you see a bomber being attacked. A veteran will attack from the front or sweep in from the side, dive in from the top or perform some sort of evasive manuever to make themselves both a hard target and give themselves a good escape route.

The rookies we'll see charging in guns blazing, few hitting, and sitting dead astern taking every bullet they can from the gunners. These are the folks that ram you...and they are just learning...

nakamura_kenji
12-23-2005, 05:16 PM
well no fire back at a6m and no ram ^_^. time when have ram i no in plane no more, dead, no able control plane. A6m horrilbe plane attack bomber. be bring on j2m3 p_q ijn need good interceptor much

Siwarrior
12-23-2005, 05:26 PM
Kenji

YOU ROCK http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HunglikePony
12-23-2005, 06:15 PM
Yes, I can see how Heinkel could be very hard to see and you could ram by accident!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Chuck_Older
12-23-2005, 06:18 PM
I'm gonna go on HL and ram every frickin bomber I see

HunglikePony
12-23-2005, 06:25 PM
So....no change for you then Older? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

AKA_TAGERT
12-23-2005, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by HunglikePony:
Peoples who do this pathetic and bad pilots! You not know how long and hard bomber pilot try to get high then you come along and attack from 6 oclock and fly right into hims!!!

I here to say that ure pathetic excuses of,
"You shot out my controls, I could not turn", and
"I blacked out" etc etc etc are just not worth typing on screen.

If you have rammed bomber, for whatever reason, REAL TRUTH is that you attack from wrong angle and attack too close! Which be meaning that YOU ARE POOR FIGHTER PILOT!!!

If ramming for you is always happen, then don't attack bombers, STAY AWAY, come back when you have the skills needed to match high skill level of bomber pilot, then we fight it out like men at 4000m, instead of you like some arcade kid playing donkey kong!

You want to tackle bombers, then you must fly like real fighter pilot, no room for kids at 3000m +, just men!!!! Agreed 100%! The same smack tards that will defend the ramming of bombers are the same smack tards that will in one breath tell you to avoid the fighers and in the next breath cry like little girls when an AI bomber FM's allows them to do just that.. Why? Because they are smack tards that just want to ram a bomber.

We asked Oleg a long time ago to provide an option for servers that in essance would not allow any damage to be applied to any bombers in a ram situation.. There are plenty of good reasons to do this, real ones, but for game play purposes alone he should have provided this option.

Figters are so brave when there is a refly button.. 99% of these smack tards that drive thier planes into a bomber would have to break off, in real life, at first sight of a rear gunner tracer comming thier due to the piss that suddenly filled thier boots and all all the shart that hit the control stick and made it hard to hold.

Brain32
12-23-2005, 06:50 PM
Not to metion how it feels when you're zooming and booming a bomber, miss the first pass or two, and then a guy comes and ramm's it...
And in the end I just rammed a bomber, shot him badly we braked in the same directon...

Freelancer-1
12-23-2005, 06:56 PM
Ive rammed my own bombers a few times.

Does that count?

T_O_A_D
12-23-2005, 07:09 PM
It depends on my convergence if I attack a bomber.

I read teh brief and see if I'm on a Bomber attack or just a Fighter sweep.

Fighter sweeps I run 183 convergence on all guns.

Bomber attacks I set all convergence to 1000.

If I'm in a quandry I'll go 183 MG and 1000 cannon.

As most know convergence is strickly a personal preference. I have my reasons, for my madness.

This way I can saddle up on a 6 of one if I can't catch him, or just want to give him a fight quickly, and lob a couple eggs at him to feel the Kentucky windage.

My prefered way to attack a Bomber is from High 12 in a dive, makes it easier to line my tracer fire into it. All be it that position is hard to get into, but it usually always pays off.

Now I'm not perfect I have rammed a few Bombers in the past any one can for a multitude of reasons. But it should not be a habit.

rnzoli
12-24-2005, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Ramming sucks - usually for both parties.
It sucks more for the bomber. The fighter hits refly and back in action in 3 minutes. The bomber needs more time. This becomes very boring and ruins the game for both bombers and fighters in the end.

I was considering to write a scripted protection for a similar problem, when fighters collide, e.g., on head-on shots, or too close scissors. If the guys blow up at the same time, I think they need some penalty time. However, my problem was that with fighters you cannot really tell from console messages, who's fault was it.

But when bomber and fighter explodes at the same time due to ramming, it is easier to tell. It was the fighter pilot that has to be kicked from the server for some time.

FI-Skipper
12-24-2005, 05:17 AM
Its a shame it happens but then again , the bomber pilot should man his guns and down the planes before they get a chance to hit/ram him http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I fly both bomber and fighter and it can be frustrating when somebody collides with you.The best way to avoid it is to hug the ground at 0 feet so if they dive to fast , they hit the ground or the sea! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Skipper

PS-There was a case in the Battle of Britain where a Hurricane pilot Sergeant Ray T Holmes "Arty" rammed a German bomber to stop it bombing the palace.He manged to rip the tailplane off the dornier but had to bail as his controls were understandably kanckered afetr doing it!Surely you wouldnt say that this man was a bad/cowardly pilot....quite the opposite in fact.

tomtheyak
12-24-2005, 06:08 AM
I see your pont HunglikePony, but on one occasion I deliberately rammed a bomber and felt I was jusifified;

I was in Spits vs 109s on their Torch map protecting shipping - our carrier had already taken a number of hits and any more would have sunk it and lost the game for the red team I was flying for.

A heinkel appraoches with torps and as I am manoeuvereing I get tangled with some 109s, using most of my ammo to shoot him down.

I put some remaining shots into the heinkel and am damaged in the engine by his gunner. He is fast approaching release point for the torps and I am in a position under neath and to the side that I can come up out my wing thru his rear fus/empennage and stop him killing our ship, hopefully with enough energy to gain some alt from which to bail. Which I do.

I hear your point about suicide rammings but a calculated try and survive - is that also beyond the line of acceptance?

neural_dream
12-24-2005, 06:37 AM
If getting killed was followed by some kind of punishment in the online servers, e.g. ban for 10 mins or anything, fighter pilots would be much more careful, and ramming would be acceptable. Now they're just a refly button away from ramming and ramming is outlawed too.

Chuck_Older
12-24-2005, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by HunglikePony:
So....no change for you then Older? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Dunno what you mean

AKA_TAGERT
12-24-2005, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by neural_dream:
If getting killed was followed by some kind of punishment in the online servers, e.g. ban for 10 mins or anything, fighter pilots would be much more careful, and ramming would be acceptable. Now they're just a refly button away from ramming and ramming is outlawed too. Exactally!

Brain32
12-24-2005, 09:16 AM
Why don't you guys fly on Warclouds, 3 deaths and you are kicked http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Jetbuff
12-24-2005, 09:17 AM
Much easier solution: death kick. CoT uses it and nobody there dares throw his virtual life away. It costs you all your kills AND earns you a timeout for the remainder of the mission; no refly if you are captured or killed.

AKA_TAGERT
12-24-2005, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Much easier solution: death kick. CoT uses it and nobody there dares throw his virtual life away. It costs you all your kills AND earns you a timeout for the remainder of the mission; no refly if you are captured or killed. I like the sound of that.. What is the server name in HL? Dang.. and today is the day I have to pack up my PC for the move. Well, Ill try it in a month or two. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

BuzzU
12-24-2005, 09:32 AM
I have to agree with the hung one. You'll always have accidents when the fighter pilot gets fixated on the bomber and runs into it.

However, the guys who do it on purpose are probably the same guys who got beat up by girls in school, and this is their revenge.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Tooz_69GIAP
12-24-2005, 09:33 AM
I will ram a bomber if I am out of ammo, and that bomber has to come down before he blows up something fragile that Stalin or Hitler will have my backside for not protecting!! I have done it once or twice, although it's something I'd rather not do.

But saying that, I fly bombers a lot (I love the Heinkel and the TB-3) and I always try and avoid the main areas of action to avoid fighter interception. If I am spotted, then I go into my vast repertoire of evasive tactics so I'm not an easy kill, and when the guy is close enough, I'll man my guns, and fight my way through, taking as many of them with me as I can, and still make my drop! And even with controls shot out, pieces missing, maybe an engine gone, I'll still try to make it home.

I rarely get rammed because guys don't usually get close enough, coz I shoot em, or dodge out their way. I get shot down alot though.

Getting rammed is not nice, but it happened in real life, so why not in a computer game? Whether it's intentional or not. I say, if you're not able to defend yourself and manouvre so that you make yourself the hardest target possible for the enemy, then you shouldn't be flying bombers online until you know how to do so!

ashley2005
12-24-2005, 09:36 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HunglikePony:
You must be rammer!
QUOTE]
YE BABY!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

AKA_TAGERT
12-24-2005, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
I will ram a bomber if I am out of ammo, and that bomber has to come down before he blows up something fragile that Stalin or Hitler will have my backside for not protecting!! I have done it once or twice, although it's something I'd rather not do.

But saying that, I fly bombers a lot (I love the Heinkel and the TB-3) and I always try and avoid the main areas of action to avoid fighter interception. If I am spotted, then I go into my vast repertoire of evasive tactics so I'm not an easy kill, and when the guy is close enough, I'll man my guns, and fight my way through, taking as many of them with me as I can, and still make my drop! And even with controls shot out, pieces missing, maybe an engine gone, I'll still try to make it home.

I rarely get rammed because guys don't usually get close enough, coz I shoot em, or dodge out their way. I get shot down alot though.

Getting rammed is not nice, but it happened in real life, so why not in a computer game? Whether it's intentional or not. I say, if you're not able to defend yourself and manouvre so that you make yourself the hardest target possible for the enemy, then you shouldn't be flying bombers online until you know how to do so! So brave.. when there is a refly button.

Tooz_69GIAP
12-24-2005, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
So brave.. when there is a refly button.

Why does everyone retreat back to that rather obvious statement. That arguement is true for any situation you find in a game/simulation. It also kinda puts this discussion into context. Why care about being rammed, when you can just hit refly? Ah well.

BuzzU
12-24-2005, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
So brave.. when there is a refly button.

Why does everyone retreat back to that rather obvious statement. That arguement is true for any situation you find in a game/simulation. It also kinda puts this discussion into context. Why care about being rammed, when you can just hit refly? Ah well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can give you my feelings on that. I'm guessing you fly pretty realistic settings. Knowing your squad, i'm almost sure of it. This is supposed to be a simulation. Would you ram a plane in RL? My goal is to always stay alive, and kill what I can without giving my life to do it. If your only goal is to score points, then you might as well be playing Quake3.

BSS_CUDA
12-24-2005, 10:09 AM
ya I hate it when people ram me in my fighter too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

ITS PART OF THE GAME GET OVER IT http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

if you dont like getting rammed DONT FLY. sheesh if your gonna whine about something at least whine about how bad the 50's are or how uber the spit is.

BuzzU
12-24-2005, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
ya I hate it when people ram me in my fighter too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

ITS PART OF THE GAME GET OVER IT http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

if you dont like getting rammed DONT FLY. sheesh if your gonna whine about something at least whine about how bad the 50's are or how uber the spit is.


How about you get over the whining?

See how that works.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

neural_dream
12-24-2005, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by BuzzU:
If your only goal is to score points, then you might as well be playing Quake3.
Why? What's wrong with Quake 4?

AKA_TAGERT
12-24-2005, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
Why does everyone retreat back to that rather obvious statement. That arguement is true for any situation you find in a game/simulation. It also kinda puts this discussion into context. Why care about being rammed, when you can just hit refly? Ah well. Obvious to some.. Desperately trying to be justified by the others

corvette93
12-24-2005, 10:33 AM
It is risky to attack a bomber and accidental ramming happens. I close to where I can see the details clearly and fire a quick burst then evade. Sometimes I hit the plane.

Being a bomber pilot myself, I know how frustrating it is to get to 5-6k meters and get shot down, whether by ramming, AA or good shooting.

AKA_TAGERT
12-24-2005, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
ya I hate it when people ram me in my fighter too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

ITS PART OF THE GAME GET OVER IT http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

if you dont like getting rammed DONT FLY. So brave!


Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
sheesh if your gonna whine about something at least whine about how bad the 50's are or how uber the spit is. ITS PART OF THE GAME GET OVER IT http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

BSS_CUDA
12-24-2005, 10:39 AM
Thx Tagert http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Jetbuff
12-24-2005, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by AKA_TAGERT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Much easier solution: death kick. CoT uses it and nobody there dares throw his virtual life away. It costs you all your kills AND earns you a timeout for the remainder of the mission; no refly if you are captured or killed. I like the sound of that.. What is the server name in HL? Dang.. and today is the day I have to pack up my PC for the move. Well, Ill try it in a month or two. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tagert, Clash of Titans, though hosted on HL and a dogfight server, is an organized online war with registration requirements. See http://cot.jg1.org for more info. If the AKA in your name refers to the AKA WarDogs then you guys are already signed up and hostilities will recommence following the holidays - we expect to launch an evolution of the current system (CoT IV) sometime in late January.

Jaws2002
12-24-2005, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by HunglikePony:
If you have rammed bomber, for whatever reason, REAL TRUTH is that """""you attack from wrong angle and attack too close!""" Which be meaning that YOU ARE POOR FIGHTER PILOT!!!




Tell him that:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/attack.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/attackrunonbuff.gif

Bremspropeller
12-24-2005, 11:20 AM
As a fellow 190 pilot, I've got the license to ram anybody at any time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

BuzzU
12-24-2005, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
As a fellow 190 pilot, I've got the license to ram anybody at any time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

When you can't shoot them. Ram them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Bremspropeller
12-24-2005, 11:35 AM
I seldomly take off armed at all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

BuzzU
12-24-2005, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
I seldomly take off armed at all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I'll bet the chute is your best friend.

HunglikePony
12-24-2005, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HunglikePony:
If you have rammed bomber, for whatever reason, REAL TRUTH is that """""you attack from wrong angle and attack too close!""" Which be meaning that YOU ARE POOR FIGHTER PILOT!!!



One of your pics is a doctored piece of German propaganda, the other is ok but take note all you wanna be fighter jocks of the closing speed in guncam films, they dont come roaring in like steam train on 6 oclock attack like HL cowboys!

The rest of you are just untermensch!!!!

Tell him that:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/attack.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/attackrunonbuff.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Prof.Lokovich
12-24-2005, 03:01 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/attackrunonbuff.gif

This photo was taken from a Ju-88 on a simulated dogfight.

Freelancer-1
12-24-2005, 03:38 PM
It seems since everyone is missing the point here, I guess it's up to me to state the obvious.

Bombers that fly unescorted are targets, period!

If you have a couple of fighters with you, the enemy will be too occupied to think about ramming you.

IMO, if you want to fly bombers, stay off dogfight servers. As you can see by many of the reponses above, these yahoos don't care about the time it takes you to get to altitude. They just want the points. That's what DF rooms are all about.

I didn't see if you you fly blue or red. If red, I'll extend an invitation to you to join the mighty 58th on a Friday or Saturday night coop in VOW2. We'll do our best to see that you are not pestered by the nasty little 109/190s.

Cheers

HunglikePony
12-24-2005, 03:46 PM
No thx, I only fly Blue, would rather set myself on fire than fly allied junk!!

The worst culprits for ramming are easily the Red wannabe fighter jocks! Should go back to playing Doom or Quake!!

BuzzU
12-24-2005, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by HunglikePony:
No thx, I only fly Blue, would rather set myself on fire than fly allied junk!!

The worst culprits for ramming are easily the Red wannabe fighter jocks! Should go back to playing Doom or Quake!!

After your statement here. I think i'll ram you everytime I see you.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hey everybody! Let's all ram HunglikeaPeanut.

Freelancer-1
12-24-2005, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by HunglikePony:
No thx, I only fly Blue, would rather set myself on fire than fly allied junk!!

The worst culprits for ramming are easily the Red wannabe fighter jocks! Should go back to playing Doom or Quake!!


Well, I can see why people may go out of their way to ram you. I'll bet it's a real hoot reading your statments in the chat bar. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

jugent
12-24-2005, 04:26 PM
If you fly german the guns are so weak, and the reargunners kill you so easy that you have to fly at 600+km/h and fire at -100 m if you shall kill a bomber an if you shall catch the window of oportunity, when the protective fighters are busy, you are in a good position, and another fighter divide the defensive fire, you sometimes crash into bombers, and mostly, you are killed and the bomber flyes on.
It takes two or three fighters to take down a bomber.
I have by more than one occasion attacked a B-25 from 6'aclock and get PK in a FW-190. If the reargunners fire is blocked by the engine, there is only the pilots head to hit, and the probility to hit this from a moving platform, at a moving target, is neglectable, in real life but not in this game.

BuzzU
12-24-2005, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by jugent:
If you fly german the guns are so weak, and the reargunners kill you so easy that you have to fly at 600+km/h and fire at -100 m if you shall kill a bomber an if you shall catch the window of oportunity, when the protective fighters are busy, you are in a good position, and another fighter divide the defensive fire, you sometimes crash into bombers, and mostly, you are killed and the bomber flyes on.
It takes two or three fighters to take down a bomber.
I have by more than one occasion attacked a B-25 from 6'aclock and get PK in a FW-190. If the reargunners fire is blocked by the engine, there is only the pilots head to hit, and the probility to hit this from a moving platform, at a moving target, is neglectable, in real life but not in this game.

30mm on the 109's are weak? The armament on the FW190 is weak?

AKA_TAGERT
12-24-2005, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by HunglikePony:
No thx, I only fly Blue, would rather set myself on fire than fly allied junk!! Set yourself on fire? Before or after the 109 windshield washers squirt gas onto the windshield in an attempt to remove the oil building up on the windshield due to the oil leak from the motor due to the 50 cals hits on the motor from one of those allied junk aircraft? Just hope you turn them off before you eject.. A little gas on the old silk scarf in combation with the flames comming off your 109 can make for a messy and long ride to mother earth.

T_O_A_D
12-24-2005, 04:53 PM
Well thats pretty narrow minded, and and a lousy way to shoot down a chance at a new freindship. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Both sides have some really nice planes to fly, if you will just use them for the proper job. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

If I didn't work 12 hour days those two days I'd join in with the 58th for sure.


Originally posted by HunglikePony:
No thx, I only fly Blue, would rather set myself on fire than fly allied junk!!

The worst culprits for ramming are easily the Red wannabe fighter jocks! Should go back to playing Doom or Quake!!

VW-IceFire
12-24-2005, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by jugent:
If you fly german the guns are so weak, and the reargunners kill you so easy that you have to fly at 600+km/h and fire at -100 m if you shall kill a bomber an if you shall catch the window of oportunity, when the protective fighters are busy, you are in a good position, and another fighter divide the defensive fire, you sometimes crash into bombers, and mostly, you are killed and the bomber flyes on.
It takes two or three fighters to take down a bomber.
I have by more than one occasion attacked a B-25 from 6'aclock and get PK in a FW-190. If the reargunners fire is blocked by the engine, there is only the pilots head to hit, and the probility to hit this from a moving platform, at a moving target, is neglectable, in real life but not in this game.
Hilarious!

MG151/20 is an awesome and potent weapon. The MK108 is a wonder weapon really...while the muzzle velocity is low...its got an enourmous destructive punch.

I think you summarized your problem with bomber attacks in your own message. 6 o'clock. Do NOT attack from that position. Always sweeping in on the side, top, bottom, or front.

Call_me_Kanno
12-24-2005, 07:02 PM
If the server could set a spawn delay for rammers, like 0-15-30-45 seconds, then they might not push it so far or take better care of their SA.

neural_dream
12-24-2005, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by HunglikePony:
The worst culprits for ramming are easily the Red wannabe fighter jocks! Should go back to playing Doom or Quake!!
Do you also suck in Doom and Quake?

HunglikePony
12-24-2005, 09:26 PM
Actually I am master of bomber in HL!!

I do not fly with my forum name sogood luck looking for me there, just know I bomb you out of base at all times!!!!

LStarosta
12-24-2005, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by HunglikePony:
Actually I am master of bomber in HL!!

I do not fly with my forum name sogood luck looking for me there, just know I bomb you out of base at all times!!!!

Nuh uh. All your base are belong to us!!!

Freelancer-1
12-24-2005, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by HunglikePony:
Actually I am master of bomber in HL!!

I do not fly with my forum name sogood luck looking for me there, just know I bomb you out of base at all times!!!!



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif I just noticed you have your name in your avatar pic. Not the brightest bulb on the tree, are you, WTE GOG? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BuzzU
12-24-2005, 09:58 PM
Originally posted by HunglikePony:
Actually I am master of bomber in HL!!

I do not fly with my forum name sogood luck looking for me there, just know I bomb you out of base at all times!!!!

You should be easy to find. You'll be the one screaming at me for ramming you.

BfHeFwMe
12-24-2005, 10:00 PM
What exactly is there to bomb on a base in a DF server? Flak is pointless, it'll be right back, so that leaves fighters. Bet they appreciate that too.

GO RAMMJAEGER's !!!!

Jaws2002
12-24-2005, 10:10 PM
We'll find you boy and put a Jug engine block trough your winshild. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/<FA>Jaws/pwned.jpg

msalama
12-24-2005, 11:11 PM
Actually I am master of bomber in HL!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Dream on babe... now how about learning to _taxi_ that Heinkel properly first, huh?

jugent
12-25-2005, 02:35 AM
Perhaps the guns are potent, in that case the enemy plane is well armoured.

What about 25 hits in a spit from a FW-190, after my fifth B&Z the spit acceleratet up my 6 and PK:ed me.

What about three hits with the 30mm nosegun in a P-47, no visual damage. The P-47 dowe away and landed.

What about 37 hits in a P-38 from a 109-G2, the P-38 got its engine smoking, came back and hit my engine so it stopped.

It normally takes three 109:s to down a B-25.
The two first is either damaged so much that it has to disengage or getting killed.

LStarosta
12-25-2005, 07:11 AM
Originally posted by jugent:
Perhaps the guns are potent, in that case the enemy plane is well armoured.

What about 25 hits in a spit from a FW-190, after my fifth B&Z the spit acceleratet up my 6 and PK:ed me.

What about three hits with the 30mm nosegun in a P-47, no visual damage. The P-47 dowe away and landed.

What about 37 hits in a P-38 from a 109-G2, the P-38 got its engine smoking, came back and hit my engine so it stopped.

It normally takes three 109:s to down a B-25.
The two first is either damaged so much that it has to disengage or getting killed.

I think you're just a poor shot.

Downing B25's with a MK108 is easy.

Freelancer-1
12-25-2005, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by LStarosta:


Downing B25's with a MK108 is easy.

Agreed.

I have learned a healthy respect for the Mk108 as I'm usually on the recieving end. They are the cause for more black screens for me than any other weapon in the game.

Brain32
12-25-2005, 08:01 AM
I have learned a healthy respect for the Mk108 as I'm usually on the recieving end. They are the cause for more black screens for me than any other weapon in the game.

Same here, only replace mk108 with Hispano's, I have never been shot with mk108 when I flew Allied http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

BigganD
12-25-2005, 08:24 AM
Ramming is a tactic, I ram bombers with my tail..cuts the wing off the bomber.. some parts of my tail flies away but I can keep flying http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

AKA_TAGERT
12-25-2005, 08:31 AM
smack tards one and all.. Oh and merry xmas

Werg78
12-25-2005, 08:37 AM
190A vs B25 too weak? i have to disagree try getting a HE111 in a Hurri IIB :-/

Stuka_G10
12-25-2005, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:


Downing B25's with a MK108 is easy.

Agreed.

I have learned a healthy respect for the Mk108 as I'm usually on the recieving end. They are the cause for more black screens for me than any other weapon in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
My good old pc is the cause of most black screens when I play. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LStarosta
12-25-2005, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by BigganD:
Ramming is a tactic, I ram bombers with my tail..cuts the wing off the bomber.. some parts of my tail flies away but I can keep flying http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yes, but you have how many tails and how many MK108 rounds?

Unless of course you fly Bf110s.

BuzzU
12-25-2005, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by jugent:
Perhaps the guns are potent, in that case the enemy plane is well armoured.

What about 25 hits in a spit from a FW-190, after my fifth B&Z the spit acceleratet up my 6 and PK:ed me.

What about three hits with the 30mm nosegun in a P-47, no visual damage. The P-47 dowe away and landed.

What about 37 hits in a P-38 from a 109-G2, the P-38 got its engine smoking, came back and hit my engine so it stopped.

It normally takes three 109:s to down a B-25.
The two first is either damaged so much that it has to disengage or getting killed.

What about some tracks?

AKA_TAGERT
12-25-2005, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by jugent:
It normally takes three 109:s to down a B-25.
The two first is either damaged so much that it has to disengage or getting killed. This says more about the 109 pilots than the B25 plane imho, in that *most* pilots.. smart ones.. dont have any trouble taking out a B25 in a single 109 with no damage to the 109.

Brain32
12-25-2005, 12:03 PM
How smart do you have to be to place mk108 on a large size, slow moving target http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

AKA_TAGERT
12-25-2005, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
How smart do you have to be to place mk108 on a large size, slow moving target http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif Not very imho

jugent
12-25-2005, 01:13 PM
Perhaps many of us are bad shooters, because I have seen it many times, a Me attacking a B-25 after some seconds the Me starts to smoke and dives away, another Me goes in mussleflames shows, the B-25 starts to smoke from one engine and the Me smoke eaven worse and the pilot jumps.

But it is a great skill to put so many rounds in a spit, and dont hit any vital functions.
And three hit of a 30mm in the wing of jug ought to bring it down doesnt it?
The tracks wont show how many hits I scored because the stats are not shown on the track.
Sometimes I am lucky to and kill a B-25 all by myself with the 30mm but that is rare, and I get much better score when I fly red a/c.

BuzzU
12-25-2005, 01:34 PM
Show a track. We can see the hits from your cockpit just like you can.

neural_dream
12-25-2005, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by jugent:
Sometimes I am lucky to and kill a B-25 all by myself with the 30mm but that is rare, and I get much better score when I fly red a/c.
My experience with the 30mm against B25s: Head on from above one burst smoking, evasive exit, second highspeed try from above and the B25 is out. I may need one more.

With the FW I need 1-2 passes. Most of the times diving at 60-90 degrees means certain death for whatever the bomber and no damage for the FW.

With the .50s I find it difficult mainly because the 4.02 .50 planes happen to be more wobbly, terrible against bombers. So, it's 4-5 high-speed passes there.


I don't know what your style is when attacking bombers, but if you happen to use the high-speed attack from behind you must know by now that the BFs will definitely receive that one hit to their engine.


Perhaps many of us are bad shooters, because I have seen it many times, a Me attacking a B-25 after some seconds the Me starts to smoke and dives away, another Me goes in mussleflames shows, the B-25 starts to smoke from one engine and the Me smoke eaven worse and the pilot jumps.
But the whole process is less than 2 sec. How can the bomber hit a >700km/h or even climbing Me, except if the Me slowed down and parked on its six. Me262 attacking bombers is the easiest thing in the whole airwarfare of WW2.

AKA_TAGERT
12-25-2005, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by jugent:
Perhaps many of us are bad shooters, Not just shooters.. tatics! If you come up a B25 six level at around the same speed as a B25 and start shooting.. I hope to god you expect a face full! In that was NOT the way they did it! The Jerrys learned early on that was a death sentence, slashing high speed (relitive to the bombers) attacks where the head on where prefered.


Originally posted by jugent:
because I have seen it many times, a Me attacking a B-25 after some seconds the Me starts to smoke and dives away, another Me goes in mussleflames shows, the B-25 starts to smoke from one engine and the Me smoke eaven worse and the pilot jumps. I have seen it many times too.. Smack-Tards that climb up slowly on the six of a bomber.. what do they expect?


Originally posted by jugent:
But it is a great skill to put so many rounds in a spit, and dont hit any vital functions. This excuse comes from both sides of the fence, thus, it says more about the pilot shooting skills than the damage models imho.


Originally posted by jugent:
And three hit of a 30mm in the wing of jug ought to bring it down doesnt it? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, it all depends.


Originally posted by jugent:
The tracks wont show how many hits I scored because the stats are not shown on the track. Not true, you could goto externals and watch from the plane your shooting at and *see* if you got as many hits as you *think* you did. Also note, best to do it from an offline senario.. in that with online gaming sometimes the net lag will show you getting a hit.. but.. you actully did not.. Good news that knife cuts both ways.. sometimes you will get a hit that looked like you missed.


Originally posted by jugent:
Sometimes I am lucky to and kill a B-25 all by myself with the 30mm but that is rare, and I get much better score when I fly red a/c. Dont confuse GOOD LUCK with GOOD TATICS, no amount of GOOD LUCK will make up for BAD TATICS.

PS dont forget the *effect* of the bombers bullets hitting you are increased! Because the his bullets are travling in the oposite direction you are (backwards towards you) thus, like a head on crash of two cars the kinetic energy will be larger.

neural_dream
12-25-2005, 02:14 PM
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/AC/aircraft/North-American-B25/info/threevu.jpg
Jugent, can you see why attacking from above and at the front is the optimal way against the B-25? Now use that knowledge and shoot the b@st@rds down http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Tachyon1000
12-25-2005, 05:40 PM
Whether or not pilots are ramming due to inexperience or viciousness, they certainly have just as much right to be online as anyone else. What I would ask is where is the fighter cover? Fly alone, get rammed. Fly with cover, rammer is dead before any ramming can occur. One would expect these experienced bombers to have experienced fighter cover. If I am flying a bomber, I don't **** myself if I die no matter what the cause. Put it back in your pants, bomber pilots. It's a frigging game.

BuzzU
12-25-2005, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
Whether or not pilots are ramming due to inexperience or viciousness, they certainly have just as much right to be online as anyone else. What I would ask is where is the fighter cover? Fly alone, get rammed. Fly with cover, rammer is dead before any ramming can occur. One would expect these experienced bombers to have experienced fighter cover. If I am flying a bomber, I don't **** myself if I die no matter what the cause. Put it back in your pants, bomber pilots. It's a frigging game.

What does it being a game have to do with it?

Did you ever get blindsided playing football? That's a game too, but you still get pi-s-sed when it happens.

Kuna15
12-25-2005, 06:13 PM
@ HunglikePony I can give you few advices. Do not fly high. Instead fly very low around 50m and choose alternative routes. It is quite possible that you can sneak up below enemy fighter at 200-300m and that he wont spot you (disable AI gunners so they wont fire on enemy plane and thus give up your position). But if you are high he will spot you easily, and once when you are spotted that is in most cases virtual death sentence. Avoid AA defence (for instance flying near enemy airfield en route to target) as much as you can because it also reveals your position very clearly every enemy fighter nearby will soon be on your six trying to destroy you.

Also make only 1 pass on ground targets. That means hit and run and that increases your survivability too -- there is high chance AA wont hit you you wont have fuel leaks and engine smokes which clearly shows your position...

Key is to sneak up undetected. Discipline wins most of the times.

Mr_Plod
12-25-2005, 07:27 PM
So what you are saying is, don't fly like a bomber?

Hardly makes sense having bombers on DF servers at all if all they are there to do is be ram targets!

Hunglikepony, If I was you, I would load up with buku fuel and stay behind enemy lines until you were at 5000m, then head over and bomb the busiest enemy airfield!! But since you mention that you fly Blue, getting to 5000m in a 111 will take you the best part of an hour so I hope you are patient!!

Not a good sim for bomber pilots this one! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

neural_dream
12-25-2005, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Kuna15:
disable AI gunners so they wont fire on enemy plane and thus give up your position
How do you do that?

T_O_A_D
12-25-2005, 08:27 PM
Was just getting a post to say the same thing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif


Originally posted by neural_dream:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
disable AI gunners so they wont fire on enemy plane and thus give up your position
How do you do that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

AKA_TAGERT
12-25-2005, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
Whether or not pilots are ramming due to inexperience or viciousness, they certainly have just as much right to be online as anyone else. What I would ask is where is the fighter cover? Fly alone, get rammed. Fly with cover, rammer is dead before any ramming can occur. One would expect these experienced bombers to have experienced fighter cover. If I am flying a bomber, I don't **** myself if I die no matter what the cause. Put it back in your pants, bomber pilots. It's a frigging game. So, what part of simulating the early part of the war where there was no fighter escorts do you not understand?

Tooz_69GIAP
12-25-2005, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
Was just getting a post to say the same thing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
disable AI gunners so they wont fire on enemy plane and thus give up your position
How do you do that? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a key you can map to toggle "pilot automation" or summit like that. Turn that off and when you leave a station in a multipit aircraft, the AI will not take over but will be disabled. I've never used it persoanlyy though, I like a bit of warning before I get killed!

womenfly
12-26-2005, 07:42 AM
Richard Gomez Candelaria vs.
Schulungslehrgang "Elbe"
photo of:
Lt Richard Gomez Candelaria
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/candelaria1.jpg
Written by Santiago A. Flores

On April 7th, 1945, elements of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, Air Divisions of
the 8th Air Force bomber command with their escorts flew across the European continent to bomb their assigned targets in Germany, as the formation of Boeing B-17s and Consolidated B-24€s were heading towards their targets, allied radio listening posts were picking up the instructions that were being issue to
the German fighters,that were taking off to intercept the attacking force.

What they heard was the voice of a German woman, telling the German
fighter pilots to engage and destroy the much hated €œViermot€ (four-engine bombers), that had brought death and destruction to the Fatherland, and to avenge the death of their love ones, by ramming into the incoming bombers !!!

What the allies were listening to, were the instructions that were being
given to about 120 BF-109G€s and K€s of €œSchulungslehrgang Elbe€(training Course Elbe), a volunteer unit formed from inexperience volunteer fighter pilots, under the command of Oberst. Hajo Herrman (An ex-bomber pilot, who later flew as a night fighter pilot, the creator of the €œWilde Sau€ method of night fighting and current commander of 9 Fliegerdivision, with 9 allied bombers to
his credit, he would later be captured by the Soviets and held Prisioner
of war, for about ten years).

His plan was to launch these light weight fighter, unarmored, virtually
unarmed, with only one MG 131 with 50 rounds in the cowling, with the objective of ramming into a US bomber, using their propellers to hit the tail of the bomber, and hopefully the German pilot would bail out and return to base.

Oberst Hermann plan was to inflict a massive number of losses on the
bomber formations, to cause the allies to suspend temporary daylight bombing, so the Luftwaffe could bring in more Me-262€s jet fighters into service.

A majority of the German pilots were inexperience, that groups were led
by experience pilots, to help guide them towards the bomber formations, while the Me-262€s would take care of the escorting fighters.

By the end of the day, about 53 €œElbe€ aircraft had been shot-down by
the defending fighter escorts, with the death of about 30 to 40 pilots. (Other sources put the death toll to 77 German pilots). In return about 13 bombers were reported loss to ramming attacks while three more were lost to Me-262€s and one to flak. (While the German people were told in the army bulletins that
64 bombers, had been brought down by ramming!!)

Link to story (http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/floresRGC.htm)

MC202zipper
12-26-2005, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
I will ram a bomber if I am out of ammo, and that bomber has to come down before he blows up something fragile that Stalin or Hitler will have my backside for not protecting!! I have done it once or twice, although it's something I'd rather not do.

But saying that, I fly bombers a lot (I love the Heinkel and the TB-3) and I always try and avoid the main areas of action to avoid fighter interception. If I am spotted, then I go into my vast repertoire of evasive tactics so I'm not an easy kill, and when the guy is close enough, I'll man my guns, and fight my way through, taking as many of them with me as I can, and still make my drop! And even with controls shot out, pieces missing, maybe an engine gone, I'll still try to make it home.

I rarely get rammed because guys don't usually get close enough, coz I shoot em, or dodge out their way. I get shot down alot though.

Getting rammed is not nice, but it happened in real life, so why not in a computer game? Whether it's intentional or not. I say, if you're not able to defend yourself and manouvre so that you make yourself the hardest target possible for the enemy, then you shouldn't be flying bombers online until you know how to do so!

Ditto....
I want to underline that, being the *** pilot I am, I still have to fly onlin, so it's a mere point of view that still I have to experience, but as we are everytime whining for the slightest not historical issue we have in the game, and as in WW2 ramming was quite common issue (see the latewar 'Sturmbock' tactics that quite often ended up in ramming, see the never developed plans for a ramming jet propelled fighter that LW was developing exactly for ramming B29 tails, never developed but the intention was there.., see the russian 'Taran pilots' sometime surviving the ramming, see the PTO situation with kamikaze attacks...etc.).

So we have in WW2 at least German, Russian & Japanese air forces that, to various extent, recurred to ramming as a preplanned tactic... not to mention all the desperate pilots from all the airforces that, sometime wounded or with badly damaged A/Cs or with no more ammos, decided to sacrifice themselves to avoid that an enemy bomber managed to hit something more important than a pilot's life for the war effort...

It's true that, from what I understand from posts here, if the spawning of a fighter is so fast & effortless compared to a bomber, some sort of balance trick should be applied, but I can't see how to achieve that... ( e.g. to understand the difference between an accident & intentional ramming...)

S!

MC202zipper

AKA_TAGERT
12-26-2005, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by womenfly:
Richard Gomez Candelaria vs.
Schulungslehrgang "Elbe"
photo of:
Lt Richard Gomez Candelaria
http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/candelaria1.jpg
Written by Santiago A. Flores

On April 7th, 1945, elements of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd, Air Divisions of
the 8th Air Force bomber command with their escorts flew across the European continent to bomb their assigned targets in Germany, as the formation of Boeing B-17s and Consolidated B-24€s were heading towards their targets, allied radio listening posts were picking up the instructions that were being issue to
the German fighters,that were taking off to intercept the attacking force.

What they heard was the voice of a German woman, telling the German
fighter pilots to engage and destroy the much hated €œViermot€ (four-engine bombers), that had brought death and destruction to the Fatherland, and to avenge the death of their love ones, by ramming into the incoming bombers !!!

What the allies were listening to, were the instructions that were being
given to about 120 BF-109G€s and K€s of €œSchulungslehrgang Elbe€(training Course Elbe), a volunteer unit formed from inexperience volunteer fighter pilots, under the command of Oberst. Hajo Herrman (An ex-bomber pilot, who later flew as a night fighter pilot, the creator of the €œWilde Sau€ method of night fighting and current commander of 9 Fliegerdivision, with 9 allied bombers to
his credit, he would later be captured by the Soviets and held Prisioner
of war, for about ten years).

His plan was to launch these light weight fighter, unarmored, virtually
unarmed, with only one MG 131 with 50 rounds in the cowling, with the objective of ramming into a US bomber, using their propellers to hit the tail of the bomber, and hopefully the German pilot would bail out and return to base.

Oberst Hermann plan was to inflict a massive number of losses on the
bomber formations, to cause the allies to suspend temporary daylight bombing, so the Luftwaffe could bring in more Me-262€s jet fighters into service.

A majority of the German pilots were inexperience, that groups were led
by experience pilots, to help guide them towards the bomber formations, while the Me-262€s would take care of the escorting fighters.

By the end of the day, about 53 €œElbe€ aircraft had been shot-down by
the defending fighter escorts, with the death of about 30 to 40 pilots. (Other sources put the death toll to 77 German pilots). In return about 13 bombers were reported loss to ramming attacks while three more were lost to Me-262€s and one to flak. (While the German people were told in the army bulletins that
64 bombers, had been brought down by ramming!!)

Link to story (http://www.neta.com/~1stbooks/floresRGC.htm) The exception to the rule does not disprove the rule.

Jetbuff
12-26-2005, 09:12 AM
Don't like ramming, BUT... do we really want gameplay solutions to come from Oleg? I much prefer the current system where you either state that it is forbidden in the server rules or even code into the script running the server some type of deterrant. If the solution comes from the big guy, at least half of us will think it's too much and the other half will think it's too little, and if it's hard-coded we can't get around it; just look at the way collision points are tallied now.

LStarosta
12-26-2005, 09:20 AM
I dunno about you guys, but I like this ramming tactic.

I use it in LOMAC all the time.

AKA_TAGERT
12-26-2005, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Jetbuff:
Don't like ramming, BUT... do we really want gameplay solutions to come from Oleg? I much prefer the current system where you either state that it is forbidden in the server rules or even code into the script running the server some type of deterrant. If the solution comes from the big guy, at least half of us will think it's too much and the other half will think it's too little, and if it's hard-coded we can't get around it; just look at the way collision points are tallied now. You say hard coded, I say hard coded option. Where Oleg could provide an option that the server could control that basically made it so no damage is appled to a bomber in a ramming situtaion. This would improve the realisim of the game alot imho. How can a non realistic option improve realism? Easy, bomber pilots would not mind spending 15min to 20min to climb up to a realistic high altitude, because now they know some smack-tard can not ram them to take them out. It would also make formation flying a little easier for noob bomber pilots. The list goes on, but, plane and simple there are many Many MANY things done in this sim that are not real (game play) to account for the fact that it is not real. For example, when is the last time you saw a formation of over 100 B17s in formation in this game? The answer is never, which is also the answer to the people who wonder why the AI gunners are so good. Think about all the things done in the name of game play, and also remember that the exception to the rule does not disprove the rule, than and only then will people realise that trying to justify ramming by listing the dozen or so accounts of intentinal ramming is silly at best.

BuzzU
12-26-2005, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
I dunno about you guys, but I like this ramming tactic.

I use it in LOMAC all the time.

Ramming the ground doesn't count.

AKA_TAGERT
12-26-2005, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by BuzzU:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
I dunno about you guys, but I like this ramming tactic.

I use it in LOMAC all the time.

Ramming the ground doesn't count. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>ROTFL

Aaron_GT
12-26-2005, 10:28 AM
Ramming sucks - usually for both parties. I don't mind the high speed rams as they usually involve a misjudgement or possibly a badly timed stutter/freeze.

I've had this happen before when doing a head-on. I think it is common courtesy to apologise on the message buffer if this is happens.

LStarosta
12-26-2005, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by BuzzU:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
I dunno about you guys, but I like this ramming tactic.

I use it in LOMAC all the time.

Ramming the ground doesn't count. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oopz.
http://www.hep.uiuc.edu/home/g-gollin/mig29_crash.jpg

MB_Avro_UK
12-26-2005, 02:17 PM
Hey LStarosta,

Did the pilot survive in that pic?

rnzoli
12-26-2005, 05:24 PM
IIRC he did. With injury to his back.