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XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 05:40 AM
Hello Everyone,

I normally don't post anywhere but in the paint scheme's forum. However,I have been flying the He-111's offline and practicing my level bombing. I created my own map with object's to practice on. I also made the map for online play,but I use it offline in the multiplayer. Anyway's,I have noticed that the "level stabilizer" is a real pain to use. I alway's seem to lose altitude when on my bomb-run. I do use "elevator trim" to try and get it level while on my run. I spend more time messing with the "level stabilizer" and "elevator trim" than concentrating on adjusting the bombsight information. I think that when you enable the "level stabilizer" the plane should automatically level itself out. The trim input is to slow to get the plane level when the "level stabilizer" has your plane losing altitude. If the "level stabilizer" just automatically leveled out the plane an kept it level it would be much better. If the plane moved up and down a little bit while the "level stabilizer" was adjusting that would even be fine. It would also look realistic when using the external view's. I do try and get the plane level with trim before I enable the "level stabilizer" but the plane still loses altitude. This is constantly messing up my bomsight information and making me miss the target. I really think that the "level stabilizer" should be re-worked in the next patch. I'm not here to get into a major war over this,just some friendly thought's on the issue. Thank's for your time. =S=

P.S. Not related to the subject,but I also think random engine failure's would be a neat feature also. I never lose and engine due to machanical problem's. I only lose one if it's been riddled with bullet's. Just imagine flying along and all of a sudden an engine cut's out or start's to sound funny. That would great!

Semper Fi!! Carry On!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Squirral aka Wolf_Fangs

<marquee>Wolf Pak Squadron</marquee>

<center>http://www.sanfords.net/DarK_Wolfs_free_demonic_graphics/wolf15.gif </center>

<center>The King Is Coming! Do You Feel The Fear?</center>

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 05:40 AM
Hello Everyone,

I normally don't post anywhere but in the paint scheme's forum. However,I have been flying the He-111's offline and practicing my level bombing. I created my own map with object's to practice on. I also made the map for online play,but I use it offline in the multiplayer. Anyway's,I have noticed that the "level stabilizer" is a real pain to use. I alway's seem to lose altitude when on my bomb-run. I do use "elevator trim" to try and get it level while on my run. I spend more time messing with the "level stabilizer" and "elevator trim" than concentrating on adjusting the bombsight information. I think that when you enable the "level stabilizer" the plane should automatically level itself out. The trim input is to slow to get the plane level when the "level stabilizer" has your plane losing altitude. If the "level stabilizer" just automatically leveled out the plane an kept it level it would be much better. If the plane moved up and down a little bit while the "level stabilizer" was adjusting that would even be fine. It would also look realistic when using the external view's. I do try and get the plane level with trim before I enable the "level stabilizer" but the plane still loses altitude. This is constantly messing up my bomsight information and making me miss the target. I really think that the "level stabilizer" should be re-worked in the next patch. I'm not here to get into a major war over this,just some friendly thought's on the issue. Thank's for your time. =S=

P.S. Not related to the subject,but I also think random engine failure's would be a neat feature also. I never lose and engine due to machanical problem's. I only lose one if it's been riddled with bullet's. Just imagine flying along and all of a sudden an engine cut's out or start's to sound funny. That would great!

Semper Fi!! Carry On!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Squirral aka Wolf_Fangs

<marquee>Wolf Pak Squadron</marquee>

<center>http://www.sanfords.net/DarK_Wolfs_free_demonic_graphics/wolf15.gif </center>

<center>The King Is Coming! Do You Feel The Fear?</center>

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 07:18 AM
Squirral, I know where your coming from, and for the most part I agree. It is a bit annoying to have the plane sink a bit after you hit the button, but I realized I may have induced that myself by misunderstanding the concept and thus misusing it. Level stabilizer isn't "autopilot". Its only going to stabilize the airplane and put it wings level. Once you have established the plane in a cruise attitude, you can hit level stabilizer and it will maintain that altitude, but may still drift off a bit on both altitude and heading. I use it all the time, so I know what stunts it tries to pull. I suggest you only use it once established in cruise flight at cruise airspeed. It appears that if you engauge level stab at a slow speed, it will nose down to some speed it chooses out of the blue and then will pull nose level. I think level stab has a mind of its own, but just work with it. Don't expect it to hold exact headings and altitudes. Use it to keep the plane from inverting itself while your setting up for your bombing run, or use it to cover vast distances over a map, but don't use it as a precise autopilot.

Those are my suggestions. Good luck!

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 07:38 AM
Up trim can be used compensate for the level stabilizer's tendency to drift downward up to about 3000-3500m. Above those altitudes, not even 100% up trim will compensate for the drift. Oh and don't forget to reset your trim to neutral before disengaging the "stabilizer," otherwise you'll be in for a wild ride.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 12:18 PM
I've also noticed, however, that since the first FB patch the elevator trim while in Level Stabilizer is far less effective than it was in 1.0. Frankly, I think in the effort to fix trim tabs in some other aircraft they broke elevator trim in the He111 while Level Stabilizer is engaged.

The rudder trim is certainly far more more effective than the elevator in terms of response and that wasn't the case in 1.0.

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 02:24 PM
yes - the "level stabilizer" isnt worth a crap anymore. it sinks and drifts. since we only have monitor to see it makes it hard enough. lining up for a bomb run and continually adjust is such nusance i rarely bomb anymore.

it worked great in 1.0 version
why they had to fix something that was not broken.
was it just not historically accurrate to have it work?
was it historically accurate to have one person fly bomber
and be bombadier?




Non Solum Armis

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 02:43 PM
Hello Guy's,

I understand how the level stabilizer is used. I know the plane won't stay on it's heading. It's not autopilot like you said. My point is that when trying to do a bomb run with the level stabilizer enable it doesn't hold the wing's level or the plane level. In fact the plane's loses altitude. No matter what you do it's very hard to get the plane level. I use trim constantly while on my bomb run. Wether it's rudder trim or elevator. Sometime's I even have to use a bit of aileron trim. I am getting frustrated with the level stabilizer not doing it's job. When enabled,it should hold the plane nice and level in the pitch attitude. If I didn't have to spend most of my bomb run messing with this stuff,I might actually hit the target below. It was fine in V1.0 and I never had a problem getting the plane level. I could even be in a 200 meter climb rate and enable it and the plane would start nosing down and stop when level. Then I would only have to use a bit of elevator trim. I wouldn't mind if you had to fly the plane with the indicator level before you enabled the level stabilizer. This way I would know I'm level. If I had to use a bit of trim then that's fine. I'd rather spend more time looking through the bombsight and adjusting it rather than trying to get the plane leveled out. I like flying the bomber's and alway's have. Now that I can fly a few bomber's in FB I fly them. But this level stabilizer need's some re-working in my opinion. I agree with the other's aswell on what they stated. Interested in hearing from other's too. =S=

Semper Fi!! Carry On!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Squirral aka Wolf_Fangs

<marquee>Wolf Pak Squadron</marquee>

<center>http://www.sanfords.net/DarK_Wolfs_free_demonic_graphics/wolf15.gif </center>

<center>The King Is Coming! Do You Feel The Fear?</center>

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 06:05 PM
Agreed it needs tweaking. BTW Squirrel I thought it was the same in 1.0 as it is now. While you are at the bombsight the pilot's job should be automated. As things are you have to keep jumping from seat to seat to keep level and keep the sight in order. That's more of a keyboard dexterity 'arcade' problem than a simulation of a bomb-run.

Real bombers didn't take all those extra crewmembers along just for the ride: they had jobs to do which the pilot couldn't. So why should we be expected to do all the jobs at the same time? While you are at the bombsight the bomber should be flown straight and level. Even if you've got the squadron's most inexperienced rookie pilot, he will be able to do that.

The best solution at the moment is to fly manually for as long as possible and only go auto-level at the last possible moment to reduce the errors.

Kernow
249 IAP

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 09:52 PM
I dont have a problem with level stabilizer drifting off course. Altitude yes, but not course....but then I spend a good deal of time trimming up before hand anyhow. I've held a track for 10K+ tracks with the crosshairs cleanly over a bridge so I can adjust for drift.

Altitude does drop over 3500 and it's because the trim tab for the elevator is not working like it did in 1.0. FWIW, with level stabilizer on, in bombsight view you can trim rudder and elevator...you don't have to keep jumping back and forth.


They just need to fix the elvator trim to keep working when in level stabilizer mode. That's what is broken.

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 11:07 PM
WWSensei wrote:

- FWIW, with level stabilizer on, in
- bombsight view you can trim rudder and
- elevator...you don't have to keep jumping back and
- forth.
-
-
- They just need to fix the elvator trim to keep
- working when in level stabilizer mode. That's what
- is broken.
-

True, you can fly from the bombsight and I often do that, although I find I get a better horizon to fly by from the pilot's seat. Trim certainly needs fixing. I find I can make any number of taps on the trim key and little seems to happen, but hold it down for half a second and suddenly the nose buries itself - after that annoying delay.


Kernow
249 IAP

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 11:40 PM
The 111-H2 can be trimmed with engine power when on level stabilizer. The H6 cannot do that

It is approximatly 80% power and 86% prop pitch and it will fly as straight as a pencil!

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 01:08 AM
Platypus_1.JaVA wrote:
- The 111-H2 can be trimmed with engine power when on
- level stabilizer. The H6 cannot do that
-
- It is approximatly 80% power and 86% prop pitch and
- it will fly as straight as a pencil!
-
- 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
- 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
- shall be judged: and with what
-
- measure ye mete, it shall be
-
- measured to you again.
-
-
- <a
- href="http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index
- .php"><img
- src="http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/templa
- tes/subSilver/images/logo_phpBB.gif" border "0"></a>


At all altitudes?


--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 06:51 AM
Hello Guy's,

First of all I would just like to take a moment and thank you all for the kind attitude on this subject. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I really appreciate it.

I do find the level stabilizer a bit different from V1.0. Today I did some more bombing in the H-6. I have figured out a way for me to get the plane level. I fly the plane from the cockpit and watch the wing level gauge and pitch attitude gauge. I pull back slightly on the joystick so the pitch needle is halfway between the level line and the first line above level. Then I enable the level stabilizer and do some up trimming. By doing this I can get the plane nice and level in the pitch attitude. Of course I have to use a bit of rudder trim while on the run. All I would like to see is when you enable the level stabilizer the plane's adjust's up or down depending if your climbing or not and then hold level. I don't think we should have to use any elevator trim with the level stabilizer. I think it should do it's own trimming to hold the plane level in the elevator at least. Nothing more,nothing less.

In real life the pilot flew the plane level and then switched control over to the bombardier. After the bombsight was set correctly the bombsight flew the plane to the target. I'm not sure if it worked like this on the He-111's,but it did on the B-17's. What I would like to know is why can we not have a human player fly the plane and another human player control the bombardier position? Why should the person who's flying the plane have to manage the bombing aswell? If they changed this then that would be even better. Or is it like this already? I'm not sure because I haven't flown the He-111's online with friend's.

Now after playing a bit this afternoon,I found a real bug with the rudder on the He-111. Can you believe I actually trimmed the rudder so it spun around 360 degree's. I have a screenshot of this I will post showing it at a 45 degree angle the wrong way. Now this should definately be fixed. But is it safe to say that we all agree that something need's to be done with either the level stabilizer or trim in FB? =S=

Semper Fi!! Carry On!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Squirral aka Wolf_Fangs

<marquee>Wolf Pak Squadron</marquee>

<center>http://www.sanfords.net/DarK_Wolfs_free_demonic_graphics/wolf15.gif </center>

<center>The King Is Coming! Do You Feel The Fear?</center>

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 08:55 AM
In an online co-op I'm almost certain the only positions you can occupy, other than the pilot's, are gunner positions. I guess it's something to do with the game code, but it seems aiming the bombs and flying are somehow linked.

I'll have to try Platypus's 80/86 method - time to revive my 111 campaign perhaps. I've not used the rudder trim before for the bomb run. I tend to make course corrections on the stick up until the final moment of engaging auto-'level.' Another thing to try.

Kernow
249 IAP

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 01:53 PM
A.K.Davis wrote:
-
- Platypus_1.JaVA wrote:
-- The 111-H2 can be trimmed with engine power when on
-- level stabilizer. The H6 cannot do that
--
-- It is approximatly 80% power and 86% prop pitch and
-- it will fly as straight as a pencil!
--

-
-
- At all altitudes?
-
I did not test that but, I mostly fly at 4000m. Just expiriment a little with settings. You can trim the He-111H2 with engine power when the level stabilizer is engaged, that's the most important thing to know. I have also only 50% of fuel most of the time but, that isn't really important.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/templates/subSilver/images/logo_phpBB.gif (http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 04:30 AM
Hello Guy's,

I do use the rudder trim alot while on my bomb run's. I try to set my run's up well before the target. It's quite easy to use rudder trim while flying to the target. I can even manage it while setting the bombsight. But I've found one weird thing about the rudder trim. Just take a look at this screenshot I took after landing and parking. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://www.tazsdesignshop.com/wolf/He-111H-6 Trim Bug.jpg

I sure hope they fix this. I'd hate to be flying along and over trim to the point where my rudder second's as a brake. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I couldn't believe my eye's when I saw that. Anyway's,I am getting better when enabling the level stabilizer. But I hope they re-work the trim and the level stabilizer. Please post more about trimming with the engine's. I'd like to try it out myself. Thank's!! =S=

Semper Fi!! Carry On!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Squirral aka Wolf_Fangs

<marquee>Wolf Pak Squadron</marquee>

<center>http://www.sanfords.net/DarK_Wolfs_free_demonic_graphics/wolf15.gif </center>

<center>The King Is Coming! Do You Feel The Fear?</center>