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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 05:45 PM
What is the basis for all the whinning about the FM. I've heard 'I read lots of books and watch lots of documentaries'. I do too, but I can't claim to know with certaintly the paticulars of a given FM. I even got a bithday present of a flight in the backseat of a Harvard trainer ( there a local WWII airplane museum - with one of two airworthy Lancasters! ) even after that, I can say desrcibe the FM since I didn't have my hand on the sick to judge reponse, so what's the deal??



Message Edited on 09/22/0304:55PM by MZ6

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 05:45 PM
What is the basis for all the whinning about the FM. I've heard 'I read lots of books and watch lots of documentaries'. I do too, but I can't claim to know with certaintly the paticulars of a given FM. I even got a bithday present of a flight in the backseat of a Harvard trainer ( there a local WWII airplane museum - with one of two airworthy Lancasters! ) even after that, I can say desrcibe the FM since I didn't have my hand on the sick to judge reponse, so what's the deal??



Message Edited on 09/22/0304:55PM by MZ6

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 05:47 PM
probably not.

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 07:10 PM
MZ6 wrote:
- What is the basis for all the whinning about the FM.
- I've heard 'I read lots of books and watch lots of
- documentaries'. I do too, but I can't claim to know
- with certaintly the paticulars of a given FM. I
- even got a bithday present of a flight in the
- backseat of a Harvard trainer ( there a local WWII
- airplane museum - with one of two airworthy
- Lancasters! ) even after that, I can say desrcibe
- the FM since I didn't have my hand on the sick to
- judge reponse, so what's the deal??
-
TOTALLY AGREE

BUMP!

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 07:24 PM
Has Oleg flown the planes?



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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 07:47 PM
Rocrawler wrote:
- Has Oleg flown the planes?
-
-


He is an aeronautical engineer, which is more than most of us can say. I trust he has a good idea of how things should and should not work.

I believe most of the whiners, with some exception, base their initial conclusions on their previous flight sim experiences They are used to a particular aircraft behaving in a particular manner. Then, convinced they're right, try to back it up with performance data that fit their expectations--often ignoring the data that differs.

That is, essentially, the problem. Flight models have to be somewhat subjective. It is difficult when the plane no longer exists and all the known documentation varies slightly depending on the source. The subjective part is weeding out which set of specs to use and which to ignore. This is where Oleg's knowledge in physics and engineering come to play and why I'd rather have him choosing the FM instead of us.

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 07:56 PM
and flew as well, planes like Yak 52 that are comparable to a small fighter

SJ

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 07:59 PM
I used to say that about Oleg too. Then he kept changing the FM's, after he swore they were right to begin with.

It's hard to believe anything now. You guys who think the FM's are right now, and swear Oleg is right. What do you say when they change again in the next patch?

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 08:09 PM
alot of the data from different gov's of wwii show different flight testing values and performances. You can purchase the spec from the different govs which arent that cheap for photocopies, but you will see the pretty big differences and flight evaluations and of course flight testing, roll rates etc dont exactly push the plane to its limits where there is structural damage, thats done in windtunnels http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

This is a game and made to the creators liking nothing we can do about it if things dont match up closely but theres some total BS with certain planes, no need to say them to start a flame war




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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 08:19 PM
Rocrawler wrote:
- I used to say that about Oleg too. Then he kept
- changing the FM's, after he swore they were right to
- begin with.
-
- It's hard to believe anything now. You guys who
- think the FM's are right now, and swear Oleg is
- right. What do you say when they change again in the
- next patch?
-


That just proves that data does not agree perfectly and is open to interpretation. Perhaps he found more sources he deems credible, or goes back to one he didn't use before. It does not mean it is right or wrong, just different.

The good news is he does reconsider data and explore new possibilites instead of being closed-minded. I'm not saying the FMs are perfect, and I don't think Oleg does either. But, he does try to get as close as he can with what he has to work with. If that means tweaking the numbers a couple of times, so be it. We are all better off for it, IMO.


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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 08:26 PM
We're better off? Why are so many quitting FB then?

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 08:39 PM
Rocrawler wrote:
- Why are so many quitting FB then?

I doubt if they are really quitting FB, I think they just want to make more of a point.

If 'they' know enough about FM ( or think they do ), they are probably quite avid flight sim fans, and if they quit FB, what else will they do, play CFS3 so they can complain even more!?

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 08:43 PM
Rocrawler wrote:
- We're better off? Why are so many quitting FB then?
-


That's between them and their shrink.

They are the ones who must have things their way or not at all. And I don't think it's all that many--most complain but keep playing. I pity them really. It must suck hating a game that you play 3 hours a day every day.

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 08:47 PM
http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5089

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 08:49 PM
One things you people don't realise is that OLEG and his team have other things to work on!, Other games to make, they are not going to research to the T every single spec of flight data to concur with all of your perfect historical flight model requests.....

This is a game, really it's more of an "AIR QUAKE" arcade game at that, how can you speak of realism? when planes jump around like rubber, or when you can spawn in and have a massive head to head brawl like you're playing some first person shooter.

it's not a simulation, its an arcade game, that portrays ww2 air combat.

Olegs flight models are subjective, subject to change and subject to accentuation in the sector of "BALANCE"...

He's balancing, trying to accentuate each planes flaws and pluses, he's not as concerned as all of you think he is with "Ultra historical FM".....

You people simply put so much pressure on him making him out to be some sort of super historical overlord genious who's sole concern is to model everything with extreme perfection and to the T.

First of all he's a game designer, who makes "GAMES"... puts food on the table, and it's fun at the same time.

Second of all computers aren't at the point where we could have something labeled a "SIMULATION" with great graphics, you guys want a sim? Go to a "REAL" simulator and see how boring it is... damage model is a different story.

STOP WHINING! and just be happy you get to play this game, you take too much for granted.

Flight models, as long as they make more sense than less, I'm happy... As long as there are no insane bugs where you shoot 3 burts of cannons into a planes wing and its still flying, i'm happy.

I don't care about 110% perfect flight specs.

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 08:58 PM
Buzz, that really is the crux of a lot of people's cynicism. It's a kind of fatigue that sets in when each patch means adapting to a new "reality".

In the end though, it's still the best WWII flight sim available.


Rocrawler wrote:


- I used to say that about Oleg too. Then he kept
- changing the FM's, after he swore they were right to
- begin with.
-
- It's hard to believe anything now. You guys who
- think the FM's are right now, and swear Oleg is
- right. What do you say when they change again in the
- next patch?

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 09:00 PM
I didn't say it wasn't. The constant changing FM's is getting old though. I was happy with IL2 a long time ago. Just fix the bugs, and nail it right there.

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 09:03 PM
Yeah i'm pretty sick of the constant changing FM's too, it just proves that they were never that perfect and this game always had a lot of bugs /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 09:24 PM
Just this past summer I had the chance to have 30
minutes of "stick time" in a T6 trainer.

We went through some basic maneuvers and a few combat
maneuvers. Never having flown a plane before, I found that
any basic skills I had from FB translated well to the
real T6. I was actually flying the dam thing!

All my observations were compared to what I Knew of FB:


1) Inside the cockpit was EXTREMELY loud! Even
with the canopy shut.

2) It takes alot of work to fly straight. I've
read this and found it to be true.

3) I was surprized at how much muscle it
took to work the rudder pedals.

4) Forces coming through the stick felt alot
like FB. (buffeting etc...)



I only know about the T6 from experience but as for
the real fighters...I guess you have to have flown
one to complain about FB flight models.

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