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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 04:35 PM
Hi.
I was wondering if anyone was using this yet, and how it ran FB. AMD boasts that it will run 32 bit apps "just fine" (This terminology worries me. LOL). With everything headed in this direction anyway, I thought that a machine running this cpu would be a smart move. However, I do not want to get an expensive machine that is so far ahead of the game that it will not run on it.


Tsisqua

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 04:35 PM
Hi.
I was wondering if anyone was using this yet, and how it ran FB. AMD boasts that it will run 32 bit apps "just fine" (This terminology worries me. LOL). With everything headed in this direction anyway, I thought that a machine running this cpu would be a smart move. However, I do not want to get an expensive machine that is so far ahead of the game that it will not run on it.


Tsisqua

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 04:43 PM
The opteron has been out for awile now and is a server chip.

If you are talking about Athalon 64 3200 or FX51 (modded opteron) then they are so new they aren't worth getting. Maybe if there was an Nforce with the next generation of Soundstorm and NV Raid for it, but that won't happen till around Dec/Jan (along with Windows 64)

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 04:51 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- The opteron has been out for awile now and is a
- server chip.
-
- If you are talking about Athalon 64 3200 or FX51
- (modded opteron) then they are so new they aren't
- worth getting. Maybe if there was an Nforce with
- the next generation of Soundstorm and NV Raid for
- it, but that won't happen till around Dec/Jan (along
- with Windows 64)
-


Thanks, RBJ. I sort of wondered about this. OverdrivePC is featuring one of these in a new machine configuration. If you go here, you'll see see the Extreme machine. Click the customize button, and have a look at the specs on the processor that they are offering with this thingy. These are definitely gaming machines, and quite costly too.

http://www.overdrivepc.com/products/gaming_amd.opc

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 05:05 PM
They should change their "opteron" to an Athalon64 shortly.

The most interesting thing to me was that Lian Li silent case (pc6070a) I've had my eye on it for awile now. It has rubber sealings and other stuff to be quiet. I noticed they colored it and added a side fan.

When I build a Athalon 64 system in 6 months that will be the case I use. And in 6 months (Q2 2004) they will have dual channel Athalon 64 using 90nm fabrication and it won't require resgistered ECC memory. Also by then there will be a good motherboard and operating sytem for it.

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 05:48 PM
This question is out of ignorance but here goes. Will a 64 bit CPU have a considerable impact in regarding to running applications that were developed to run on 32 bit processors? I understand the analogy (stadium full of people trying to exit through 64 turnstops instead of just 32) used to describe the difference between a 32 and 64 bit processors but how would it improve a game like il-2? stubby

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 05:50 PM
While the wording that the used when they said it would run 32 bit applications "just fine" was a poor choice of words,
I have no doubt it would handle them really well. I used to work on IBM mainframes and understand processor architecture and machine language very well. I feel that in the case of utilizing 32 bits ( double word ) of data, the 64 bit ( quadruple word ) data buss will simply fill in the other half of the buss with leading zeros. Same thing goes for all the registers and busses, the other half will be just filled in with leading zeros. Most processors have been 32 bits now for quite a while but will handle 16 bits ( single word ) of data very well by doing the same thing, just fill in the other half with zeros. You may very well have many 16 bit applications running on your computer every day and not even realize it, but your processor is probably a 32 bit one. Will the new 64 bit architecture run 32 bit games like FB better?? No, the 64 bit technology in of itself will not improve the speed of 32 bit applications. But AMD has been claiming that other optimizations included in the processor do in fact speed up and improve it's performance quite a bit for everything. So if AMD is right, it should play FB better. How much better I don't know, they are only claims so far.


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Message Edited on 09/26/0304:58PM by mortoma

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 06:26 PM
Thanks Mortoma. Though I didn't understand about 99% of what you said, you did answer my question http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stubby

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 06:27 PM
mortoma wrote:
- While the wording that the used when they said it
- would run 32 bit applications "just fine" was a poor
- choice of words,
- I have no doubt it would handle them really well. . . . . . . . . . .


Mortoma, that is the kind of answer that I was looking for. AMD says that the Opteron XP is meant to be a bridge between 32, and 64 bit computing. I also noticed that if the same specs (i.e. bus speed, processing frequency, etc.) were compared with a 32 bit processor, it looks quite average. If it really runs 32 bit apps at pretty much the same eficiency of its 32 bit equivilent, then this would probably not be worth all the extra money at this time. I'm sure that the day is very near when we will all need a 64, though.

Thank You so Much!


Tsisqua

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 06:27 PM
It's alot more than just 64 bit. It's got no FSB, it uses some hyper-thing-a-ma-jigy that gives it the equivalent of 1600mhz FSB. The resulting loss of latency is so great it gets about 90% of the maximum theoretical bandwidth of the memory.

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 06:30 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- It's alot more than just 64 bit. It's got no FSB,
- it uses some hyper-thing-a-ma-jigy that gives it the
- equivalent of 1600mhz FSB. The resulting loss of
- latency is so great it gets about 90% of the maximum
- theoretical bandwidth of the memory.
-



Yes, you are right. I just realized that I mentioned FSB on my previous post as a spec. I think that FSB should be a MAJOR factor when considering a processor, so I guess that I am in the dark again.


Tsisqua

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Message Edited on 09/26/0301:31PM by tsisqua

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 07:15 PM
Definitely plan on getting a 64 bit chip from amd, but I'd wait until next summer to do it.

By then mobo companies will have some sweet nvidia based boards out and the 64 will running around 3gig. (not performance rated, but actually clocked at that speed).

Should also have pci express so you'll also get in on the latest video cards.

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 08:03 PM
All the reviews I've seen so far show the VIA K8T800 board trouncing the Nforce3 boards in the AMD64 tests. And those are out now.

And, the Nforce3 will not include the soundstorm audio, just AC97. Probably because they are working on a stand alone sound card based on it.

I do like everything else Nvidia, but I'd think twice about the Nforce3. Maybe the final version will be better? We'll see.

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 08:31 PM
The other big thing about the 64 bit cpu's is that they have huge on board cache. I believe up to 2 meg total. They have L1, L2 and L3 caches.

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 10:49 PM
Thanks for all the advice, folks. I just hate to play the same old game of buying a pc, only to have it obsolete two weeks later. I'd like to make an investment that would carry me through a couple of years.

Tsisqua

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XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 11:17 PM
The Athlon 64 will be able to run applications in three different scenarios:
1)64 bit aps and games in Windows 64.
Both will run faster,anything from a little to almost double the speed depending on the application.
(huge increases in speed will come form the increased number of registers mostly rather than 64 bits themselves at first until aplications start to request more than 4 gig in which case 64 bit will be necessary for speed).
2)32 bit aplications and games under Win XP 32 bit.
They will run faster than on an Athlon XP because of the faster architecture of the Athlon 64 but the 64 bit technology will not come into play here.
3)32 bit aplications and games under Windows 64 bit.
They will run slightly slower than in Win XP because Win 64 can only run 32 bit aplications in a sort of simulation mode.
How much slower depends on the optimization of drivers and Windows code.
It shouldn't be a big difference and in any case I expect an ample number of 64 bit aplications to be out very shortly after Win 64 bit are out.


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XyZspineZyX
09-27-2003, 12:52 AM
PF_Coastie wrote:
- The other big thing about the 64 bit cpu's is that
- they have huge on board cache. I believe up to 2 meg
- total. They have L1, L2 and L3 caches.

You have to be careful when programming the things, though.
With two levels of cache a cache miss is less of an
overhead, as you don't have to bring lines of memory
across as many caches. So three levels of cache can mean
that badly written programs, or ones that have
inherently cache unfriendly memory access run more slowly.
Well written ones will get a fair boost, though.

XyZspineZyX
09-27-2003, 05:20 PM
Ok,

To everyone that posted all the wonderful advice, I wanted to thank you, and to let you know that I've ordered a system with the Opteron XP 64 bit processor. The front side bus (equivilent) is around 1,600, which just blows my mind. It will have a 160 gig ATA hard drive (7,200 rpm), and for right now a Radeon 9200, 128 meg card. I really wanted a 256, but I have a feeling that it will be just fine for the time being. This processor was designed for desktop use, and was just released last Wednesday, so I should be in on the new technology slightly ahead of most folks and will feel a responsibility to inform everyone here about how this monster runs our favorite game.

On a side note:
Swinging this pc took some real talking to Mrs. Tsisqua, and is going to cost me a new washer and dryer, LOL.

Thanks again, for all the knowledge.
You folks are the greatest.

Tsisqua

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XyZspineZyX
09-27-2003, 06:12 PM
You should get the FX version because it is the fastest version. The Alienware site just released it in there top of the line nivida based gamers PC. I take from what I have read that you needed to get a new motherboard and RAM right?



Message Edited on 09/27/0310:12AM by BlackPhenix

XyZspineZyX
09-27-2003, 06:23 PM
tsisqua what you need to look for is some benchmarks with games/sims benchedmarked between a amd64 & a 32bit athlon

with simular hardware IE ram Etc etc....

Then you will know if it can run games faster /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Ill go look around

I want a 64bit chip!!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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