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View Full Version : Whats up with all the "cockpit off" servers at Hyperlobby



Rudolf_Gul
09-27-2005, 06:21 AM
Seems like the majority (or at least very very many) of the DF servers on Hyperlobby have "cockpit off" in their settings, often along with externals too.

Whats up with that? I thought the whole point of using/playing/flying a "SIM" was to SIMULATE the real thing. Is it really that much more difficult to fly with cockpit on than off. I've only tried flying without pit a few times and to me its just horrible. It makes this fine sim into just any arcade game. I realize that some people may like this but I though that at least the majority of sim flyers would appreciate a "as close as the real thing as possible" settings. Im not out to flame anyone, everyone has their own preferences, but Im curious why not more people fly with more realistic settings than what is being reflected on HL.

Cheers
Rudolf

Rudolf_Gul
09-27-2005, 06:21 AM
Seems like the majority (or at least very very many) of the DF servers on Hyperlobby have "cockpit off" in their settings, often along with externals too.

Whats up with that? I thought the whole point of using/playing/flying a "SIM" was to SIMULATE the real thing. Is it really that much more difficult to fly with cockpit on than off. I've only tried flying without pit a few times and to me its just horrible. It makes this fine sim into just any arcade game. I realize that some people may like this but I though that at least the majority of sim flyers would appreciate a "as close as the real thing as possible" settings. Im not out to flame anyone, everyone has their own preferences, but Im curious why not more people fly with more realistic settings than what is being reflected on HL.

Cheers
Rudolf

Deadmeat313
09-27-2005, 06:26 AM
I'd keep the cockpit on regardless. I gives you a slight disadvantage, but the alternative is Arcade Hell. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

T.

ploughman
09-27-2005, 06:34 AM
Some people think flying a desk whilst looking through a 17/19 inch square window located 2-3ft in front of you doesn't quite simulate the real thing either. Not everyone can afford a decent interface.

If you go on WarClouds with only a joystick and a 17 inch monitor you're going to be at a disadvantage when you meet the guy with a nice big monitor, pedals, track IR, a throttle quadrant etc.

Besides, maybe they find it more 'fun.'

One day maybe we'll all have visor mounted wide angle screens, 6DOV Track-IR, pedals, throttle quadrants, and super-sticks to control our sky chariots and the simulation will be a stimulation. I look forward to that day.

Just my 2 pence.

Xiolablu3
09-27-2005, 06:46 AM
How does not being able to look out of the window to see where the runway is to take off simulate 'reality'??

There is so much guesswork inovled in ' full real' servers because you cant do simple real things that I think cockpit off is a small step towards making it MORE realistic.

Bearcat99
09-27-2005, 07:00 AM
To each his own... I can enjoy the full gammut... except for the map icons... I just hate mapicons. It would be nice if you could run open cockpit with icons but no arrows.

Pig_Mac
09-27-2005, 07:02 AM
i'd rather have externals on while on ground, and below 100 km/h(simulating someone/someway to find your way to the runway if it is your first try on a map) then having cockpit off. the cockpit design is in many cases (one of) the advantage/disadvantage of a plane.

if my life so depended on it i can't convert miles to km/h on the fly. so if i'm flying mp/h planes i really like to have the speed bar available as a TIR would be needed to keep track of enemy and speed at the same time.

more 'semi-real' servers for us without roxxor skill!

56th BMAC
09-27-2005, 07:06 AM
Not this again....

I'm not going to argue one way or the other on what's more realistic when flying online. We have so many options and preferences, it's hard to find a server that will exactly fit your needs unless you build your own. So.... Fly the settings you like and respect the way others prefer to fly. There's no right or wrong way. Wonder Woman vs Full Difficulty... Who cares? Have fun and don't worry about what the other guy is doing. If you don't like what's available on HL, run your own server that's set up the way you like to fly. To quote a squad mate of mine (who will shred you either with or without the pit) "If you want realism, join the military."

Have fun and happy hunting!

Rudolf_Gul
09-27-2005, 07:17 AM
BMAC:

ehumm... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Im not out to flame anyone, everyone has their own preferences, but Im curious why not more people fly with more realistic settings than what is being reflected on HL. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

HotelBushranger
09-27-2005, 07:30 AM
I dunno about Wonder Woman settings, but I fly almost 100% with externals on cos I like looking at all the beaut skins n planes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

sunflower1
09-27-2005, 07:38 AM
Server settings are more or less directly proportionate to how long it takes to get a game going and get into the action and the reason seems to be, "because that's how people are."

Try out the online wars, be sure to have something else to do while you're waiting and be darn sure you can navigate.

Just be sure to have fun.

flakwagen
09-27-2005, 07:47 AM
Everyone has made good points. I find external views very helpful when taxiing. The textures of the ground and the runway areas is often hard to tell apart, even if one has a good view from inside the canopy. External views of airborne aircraft are another matter. I would be nice if the server admin could turn off the ability to see enemy views or all views but that of one's own aircraft.

Flak

LeadSpitter_
09-27-2005, 08:11 AM
always has been that way since day one, if you like more difficult settings you will have to sign up for CAD VOW2 CW and occasional coop which is rare to find locked settings.

The arcade crowd has been always more popular unfortunatly but this game has settings for all choices of difficulty.

As for scripted dogfight servers The last FR servers are spits vs 109s, zeke vs wildcats, by.sturmovik.de, virtualpilots and thats about it then the rest are unchecked.

jimDG
09-27-2005, 08:36 AM
the only unrealistic thing about cockpit OFF is that you can aim high deflection shots. In the real world it was guesswork and really done - the nose obscures the view.
On the other hand, with a bubble cannopy spit-stile one can lean sideways and look past the nose (in the real world).

But I do agree that having to look at a screen and chase pixels and identify pixels is considerably more difficult than being in an airplane and looking at other airplanes.

56th BMAC
09-27-2005, 08:41 AM
My bad, Rudolf_Gul... Sorry I jumped the gun on that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

TAGERT.
09-27-2005, 09:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rudolf_Gul:
Seems like the majority (or at least very very many) of the DF servers on Hyperlobby have "cockpit off" in their settings, often along with externals too.

Whats up with that? I thought the whole point of using/playing/flying a "SIM" was to SIMULATE the real thing. Is it really that much more difficult to fly with cockpit on than off. I've only tried flying without pit a few times and to me its just horrible. It makes this fine sim into just any arcade game. I realize that some people may like this but I though that at least the majority of sim flyers would appreciate a "as close as the real thing as possible" settings. Im not out to flame anyone, everyone has their own preferences, but Im curious why not more people fly with more realistic settings than what is being reflected on HL.

Cheers
Rudolf </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's ghay aint it!

Problem is the Quake croweds out number us big time, thus they have to provide those gang bang bang shoot-em-ups 2min sound-byte attention spans with something just to improve sales.

God only hopes that with time or when the sack drops these kids will move up to something more challenging.

Lord_Rhah
09-27-2005, 09:11 AM
I guess its down to two main reasons: Most people probably dont have the time to go into full real servers, as they take a lot longer to play out (im assuming, as i've never been in one) and want a quick blast.
Also, most people dont have TrackIR and some (like myself) dont even have a hat on their stick, which is a considerable disadvantage when you need to keep one hand on your mouse, 1 on stick and 1 on the keyboard.. its just bloody awkward!

HayateAce
09-27-2005, 09:20 AM
They like it because it makes them feel free and alive again, as though they are flying in the nude.

http://www.wonderwomanmuseum.com/images/wwdcd-InvisiblePlaneReplica.jpg

Xiolablu3
09-27-2005, 09:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rudolf_Gul:
Seems like the majority (or at least very very many) of the DF servers on Hyperlobby have "cockpit off" in their settings, often along with externals too.

Whats up with that? I thought the whole point of using/playing/flying a "SIM" was to SIMULATE the real thing. Is it really that much more difficult to fly with cockpit on than off. I've only tried flying without pit a few times and to me its just horrible. It makes this fine sim into just any arcade game. I realize that some people may like this but I though that at least the majority of sim flyers would appreciate a "as close as the real thing as possible" settings. Im not out to flame anyone, everyone has their own preferences, but Im curious why not more people fly with more realistic settings than what is being reflected on HL.

Cheers
Rudolf </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's ghay aint it!

Problem is the Quake croweds out number us big time, thus they have to provide those gang bang bang shoot-em-ups 2min sound-byte attention spans with something just to improve sales.

God only hopes that with time or when the sack drops these kids will move up to something more challenging. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is EXACTLY what I mean when people take this game too seriously and believe they are TRULY hotshot pilots. This is a computer game m8, you are not a real WW2 pilot... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

EURO_Snoopy
09-27-2005, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Whats up with all the "cockpit off" servers at Hyperlobby </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't knock it, wonder woman puts the bread on the table

Pig_Mac
09-27-2005, 11:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don't knock it, wonder woman puts the bread on the table </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


she does... but how do you find the invisible bread?

Rudolf_Gul
09-27-2005, 11:03 AM
Well.. actually for me its not "Full switch" vs "Full arcade". I dont mind the "small map high pace action servers" either. But in my experince it is totally possible to fly these without the "pit off" mode and no externals etc. I dont minde icons as long as they are fairly short range.

I dont have TIR and have no problem with the "mouse view" when flying on full real servers. I dont think that certain game controls make that much of a difference. But thats just me.

Von_Rat
09-27-2005, 11:16 AM
im wondering,,, when head movement is introduced in bob, so you can lean over and see over the nose etc, will there even be a need, or excuse if you will, for wonder women view.

lbhskier37
09-27-2005, 11:19 AM
Its because there are two types of people that play this game. 1 type would be perfectly happy flying a 1+ hour mission where they never even see the enemy and all they accomplish is getting their bombers or bombs to the target and bringing everyone home. The other type wants a map where bases are within 20km of eachother and they get in a fight and get home in less time than it takes their 109 to burn up the 25% fuel they took. To each his own.

NorrisMcWhirter
09-27-2005, 11:44 AM
Ah, the old argument.

They are popular on HL simply because people want to use them and fly with those settings.

I don't think either cockpit on or off is very realistic what with the restricted view and/or arrows but I think WW view compensates for view limitations while cockpit on and no externals gives a good verification of how 80% of pilots didn't know what killed them.

It's up to you which you prefer.

Ta,
Norris

Stigler_9_JG52
09-27-2005, 12:25 PM
Many of you are missing the point here.

Is *anything* really realistic in IL-2? No. Of course not.

But, there are certain game devices which provide a better representation of what it might have been like than others. It's never black and white, right/wrong. It's a question of what's "more" or "less" realistic.

If you just think about it for a few seconds, it's clear that WonderWoman view is much less realistic than cockpit on, even given the challenges that the entire visual system has in the sim. It is obvious that visibility was a BIG factor with these planes, and to simply pretend it wasn't is disingenuous at best, self-interested at worst.

And it's also clear that the WonderWoman crowd will glom onto any excuse they can to justify using this crutch, up to and including finding nits to pick about any other aspect of the game/sim. It's an application of the old, "You don't really die in the sim, so it's not realistic unless you uninstall the sim the first time you crash or get killed in the sim" argument. Distort the argument to cover up your blatantly self-serving "choices".

56th BMAC
09-27-2005, 12:44 PM
Now is when I should have posted my original post.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

IL2-chuter
09-27-2005, 01:01 PM
I fly wonderwoman online about 50/50. I've been a pilot (and mechanic) 29 years now and the feeling I get in IL2 cockpit on is downright closterphobic. I "dogfight" a lot in RL and it is a totally different experience than in the game, first in lack of visibilty (I do so much head movement in RL that can't be duplicated in the game even with TIR . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif), second (and this is huge to me), the evasive tactics used by bogeys tends to border on the humanly impossible (You'd slap yourself senseless in the cockpit flying a real plane like that). The lack of G forces is the single biggest element missing in the game, and it's HUGE. The 'pit on/'pit off talk could be applied to a roller coaster sim in much the same fashion, I suppose. Just an opinion. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif And then there are the Flight models . . . oops . . . the one flight model with varying parameters. I'm not even going there . . . I like the game too much. I guess the less real world experience one has the easier the suspension of disbelief. You "pilots" take it as seriously as you like and have fun.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif WOOHOO.

Iron_Hand1
09-27-2005, 01:19 PM
I like to fly in all types of servers myself, but whether its pit on or off, I like to leave mine on, it gives me great satisfaction to know I shot someone down without those little arrows. If I could change one thing I would like to be able to have an external view of my plane without all the other external view options to go with it.
That being said it would be nice (though it will never happen) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif if there was a concensus "medium" pit-on and pit-off setting we could all agree to.
I do see points to both sides of the discussion, and I know who pay the bills, lol. That being said, the real beauty here is there are a lot of choices.

S~

BaldieJr
09-27-2005, 02:44 PM
Someone made a FANTASTIC point!

Too bad it does not pertain to this topic.

I fly wonderwoman but I turn my monitor off. Happy now?

xTHRUDx
09-27-2005, 02:56 PM
Who's the babe squating at 10k ft? oh that's some wonder chic.

we try to run full switch except when we want to fly the AI planes ourselves.

BaldieJr
09-27-2005, 02:58 PM
I changed my mind. You guys totally convinced me.

From now on I'm flying full switch except for the hard ones.

FI-Aflak
09-27-2005, 04:11 PM
Yet Another "Hey, look, I fly full real I'm better than yooos!!" Thread . . . .

sure its a sim, but its a game first. People want to have fun and it is miles more approachable without the cockpits on.

I fly both, depending on my mood. It angers me to at least a slight degree when fools like the first couple posters in this thread come in and act self-righteous and superior, they get all surprised that people play a game to have fun. Nobody is making you fly in the wonder-woman servers. If the majority of servers are cockpit off I guess that means you and your kind are in the minority and you should shut your goddam mouth before it spews any more vomit on these message boards.

96th_Nightshifter
09-27-2005, 04:28 PM
I don't see why anyone has the right to come in here and make a post more or less saying they are better than the people that fly Cockpit off style, oh sorry I should have made use of the term "Wonder Woman" view just to make you feel all superiorlike lol.
What difference does it make to you what other people are doing?
I fly open and closed cockpit - why? because I can and because I want to, nobody tells me what way I am going to fly the game that I paid for and petty little diggs aren't going to change my mind either.
Sometimes I am in the mood for a bit of full switch flying and sometimes I have less time and want to get some fun but at a quicker pace.
You think open cockpit is just for kids and is easy - try flying in UKDed1 for a while.
The point being that people will do what ever they want to do, it's the beauty of having a game that gives you a choice as opposed to a game that says "YOU MUST FLY THIS WAY OR NOT AT ALL". Wonder what would happen to the already small community if that kind of choice was taken away - personally I don't think it would survive.

Arm_slinger
09-27-2005, 04:41 PM
You mean none of you haven't noticed the number of 190's flown on no cockpit severs?!?! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Xiolablu3
09-27-2005, 09:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
Many of you are missing the point here.

Is *anything* really realistic in IL-2? No. Of course not.

But, there are certain game devices which provide a better representation of what it might have been like than others. It's never black and white, right/wrong. It's a question of what's "more" or "less" realistic.

If you just think about it for a few seconds, it's clear that WonderWoman view is much less realistic than cockpit on, even given the challenges that the entire visual system has in the sim. It is obvious that visibility was a BIG factor with these planes, and to simply pretend it wasn't is disingenuous at best, self-interested at worst.

And it's also clear that the WonderWoman crowd will glom onto any excuse they can to justify using this crutch, up to and including finding nits to pick about any other aspect of the game/sim. It's an application of the old, "You don't really die in the sim, so it's not realistic unless you uninstall the sim the first time you crash or get killed in the sim" argument. Distort the argument to cover up your blatantly self-serving "choices". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Lmao, u treally believe that you are superior...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If you dont like the servers with no cockpit then DONT FLY ON THEM. there is no 'wonder woman crowd' Its just people playing a computer game...people play with both views.

Its just your imagination that makes you think there is an 'inferior crowd' of 'pilots' (lol) who don't play the sim 'properly' because they enjoy it a different way.

I play both, sometimes cockpit on , sometimes cockpit off, as I'm sure most normal people do. You are NOT superior because you play a computer game with half the screen blocked off.

REMEMBER Stigler you are not a real WW2 pilot. Its a computer game like Space invaders adn pac man, you are suppoosed to have fun while playing it. If you are doing it to prove something (as it sounds like you are) then get a life m8, pls. (the fact that you call yourself by the name of a German ww2 pilot is worrying....)

Herustic_Algor
09-27-2005, 09:59 PM
I fly in exterior view only http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Badsight.
09-27-2005, 10:30 PM
Xiolablu3 , while Stigler may be many things - he has a good handel on the options that add immersion , run him down if you will , but see where he's coming from & understand what he's trying to say

personally , Maddox Games would make my day if they made Bandit Lock (ground or air) in External view a switchable option on or off

GR142-Pipper
09-27-2005, 10:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
If you just think about it for a few seconds, it's clear that WonderWoman view is much less realistic than cockpit on, even given the challenges that the entire visual system has in the sim. It is obvious that visibility was a BIG factor with these planes, and to simply pretend it wasn't is disingenuous at best, self-interested at worst. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Agree completely.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And it's also clear that the WonderWoman crowd will glom onto any excuse they can to justify using this crutch, up to and including finding nits to pick about any other aspect of the game/sim. It's an application of the old, "You don't really die in the sim, so it's not realistic unless you uninstall the sim the first time you crash or get killed in the sim" argument. Distort the argument to cover up your blatantly self-serving "choices". </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Agree again. IMHO, the easier (ww/arcade) settings are fine for those learning the game. As one progresses, the next step toward a more realistic environment is toward more full real servers. Some will want to make this progression while others won't. Hey, folks are free to enjoy the game as they please at any level. However, it's also clear that, by far, the most demanding environment for IL-2 game play is the full real environment. This is the environment where one is clearly incented to learn section flying.

GR142-Pipper

spitzfiya
09-27-2005, 10:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rudolf_Gul:
Seems like the majority (or at least very very many) of the DF servers on Hyperlobby have "cockpit off" in their settings, often along with externals too.

Whats up with that? I thought the whole point of using/playing/flying a "SIM" was to SIMULATE the real thing. Is it really that much more difficult to fly with cockpit on than off. I've only tried flying without pit a few times and to me its just horrible. It makes this fine sim into just any arcade game. I realize that some people may like this but I though that at least the majority of sim flyers would appreciate a "as close as the real thing as possible" settings. Im not out to flame anyone, everyone has their own preferences, but Im curious why not more people fly with more realistic settings than what is being reflected on HL.

Cheers
Rudolf </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Deflection shooting with the cockpit on is incredibly difficult, Deflection shooting of more then a few degrees is downright useless. Flying with cockpit on and no Track IR is incredibly difficult. Having no "perspective" and no "depth perception" while in the pit makes it hard to see over anything.

Altho having the pit on does give a great sense of atmosphere. Realistic servers are just harder to have fun in.

-HH-Quazi
09-27-2005, 11:03 PM
I used to fly with the cockpit off all the time. Until a squadmate asked me to try flying with the cockpit on for two weeks solid, just to try to learn to fly this way. And now, I don't think I could fly with the cockpit off as effectively as I do with it on. After I found that I could actually follow a bogey using my hat switch, and realy getting good at it, I find that I get more satisfaction when I get a kill now. But it doesn't bother me that the bogey I am on is using the Wonder Woman view. To each their own. If you think about it, it's all about finding personal enjoyment and satisfaction. As long as you are getting this from your flight time, then it's all good.

BaronUnderpants
09-28-2005, 03:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
If you just think about it for a few seconds, it's clear that WonderWoman view is much less realistic than cockpit on, even given the challenges that the entire visual system has in the sim. It is obvious that visibility was a BIG factor with these planes, and to simply pretend it wasn't is disingenuous at best, self-interested at worst. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Agree completely.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And it's also clear that the WonderWoman crowd will glom onto any excuse they can to justify using this crutch, up to and including finding nits to pick about any other aspect of the game/sim. It's an application of the old, "You don't really die in the sim, so it's not realistic unless you uninstall the sim the first time you crash or get killed in the sim" argument. Distort the argument to cover up your blatantly self-serving "choices". </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Agree again. IMHO, the easier (ww/arcade) settings are fine for those learning the game. As one progresses, the next step toward a more realistic environment is toward more full real servers. Some will want to make this progression while others won't. Hey, folks are free to enjoy the game as they please at any level. However, it's also clear that, by far, the most demanding environment for IL-2 game play is the full real environment. This is the environment where one is clearly incented to learn section flying.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


U really are full of your selfe aint u, have u ever even been in a singel engine prop plane?

Full swich has nothing...nothing to do with real life in terms of visebility and situational awerness and u know it, its harder to SHOOT some one down than WW ill give u that,but thats it. Try DF or B&Z someone that knows exactly where u are and then talk about easy.

Full swich makes it redicolously easy to 1. hide 2. sneek up on someone and 3.escape.

Who said something about easy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

nakamura_kenji
09-28-2005, 04:20 AM
reason like cokpit is because scary ^_^, need keep look all time hope see enemy first before see you. I only use wonder woman for speed test but find it disorentating not have cockpit would hate fight use it as take lot visual clue from cockpit view like plane shake on edge of stall.

each to own guess what make happy

Fox_3
09-28-2005, 04:35 AM
In answer to the first post.

LOL! Realism in a DF server? The flight sim equivilant of FP shooters. What do you expect?

Badsight.
09-28-2005, 04:48 AM
BaronUnderpants , Pipper is an Navy pilot
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
U really are full of your selfe aint u, have u ever even been in a singel engine prop plane?

Full swich has nothing...nothing to do with real life in terms of visebility and situational awerness and u know it, its harder to SHOOT some one down than WW ill give u that,but thats it. Try DF or B&Z someone that knows exactly where u are and then talk about easy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>what takes more skill ? having a constant visual contact , or being in a situation where you lose visual contact & have to rely on something else - like your knowledge & experience

what a lot of "mostly" external DF players get blinded by is the "aggressiveness" of an external view DF . this doesnt mean its the most difficult or the most skillfull

you talk about what is easy , well how easy do you think it is to survive when you have a 3km bandit lock view , never being surprised

Pipper says it best
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
by far, the most demanding environment for IL-2 game play is the full real environment </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

waffen-79
09-28-2005, 05:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Some people think flying a desk whilst looking through a 17/19 inch square window located 2-3ft in front of you doesn't quite simulate the real thing either. Not everyone can afford a decent interface.

If you go on WarClouds with only a joystick and a 17 inch monitor you're going to be at a disadvantage when you meet the guy with a nice big monitor, pedals, track IR, a throttle quadrant etc.

Besides, maybe they find it more 'fun.'

One day maybe we'll all have visor mounted wide angle screens, 6DOV Track-IR, pedals, throttle quadrants, and super-sticks to control our sky chariots and the simulation will be a stimulation. I look forward to that day.

Just my 2 pence. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...As simple as that

For the moment I have other priorities and CANT afford TIR3, PEDALS, 7800 and BESIDES I'm not that good in the sim that's why I don't fly in "full real" servers

However I always use the Cockpit ON (334, AFJ) but I want to be able to press F3 to see if someone is in my six if I want to.

Regards

BaronUnderpants
09-28-2005, 06:14 AM
My point beeing that there are advanteges and dissadvanteges with both ways of playing, whoos to say one is veteran skill and the other kids stuff?

If thats the case kids can argue that the "veteran" sucks so bad at open cockpit that they have to escape to full swich just to increase theire chanse of surviving for more than 5 min...not fun to hear is it.

Both fill a purpose for different people and leave it at that.

GR142-Pipper
09-28-2005, 06:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
If you just think about it for a few seconds, it's clear that WonderWoman view is much less realistic than cockpit on, even given the challenges that the entire visual system has in the sim. It is obvious that visibility was a BIG factor with these planes, and to simply pretend it wasn't is disingenuous at best, self-interested at worst. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Agree completely.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And it's also clear that the WonderWoman crowd will glom onto any excuse they can to justify using this crutch, up to and including finding nits to pick about any other aspect of the game/sim. It's an application of the old, "You don't really die in the sim, so it's not realistic unless you uninstall the sim the first time you crash or get killed in the sim" argument. Distort the argument to cover up your blatantly self-serving "choices". </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Agree again. IMHO, the easier (ww/arcade) settings are fine for those learning the game. As one progresses, the next step toward a more realistic environment is toward more full real servers. Some will want to make this progression while others won't. Hey, folks are free to enjoy the game as they please at any level. However, it's also clear that, by far, the most demanding environment for IL-2 game play is the full real environment. This is the environment where one is clearly incented to learn section flying.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


U really are full of your selfe aint u, have u ever even been in a singel engine prop plane? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, I have been in a single engine prop plane...many times.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Full swich has nothing...nothing to do with real life in terms of visebility and situational awerness and u know it, its harder to SHOOT some one down than WW ill give u that,but thats it. Try DF or B&Z someone that knows exactly where u are and then talk about easy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>To be clear, I said it was the most demanding environment to fly in regarding this game. In addition, full real settings are much closer to reality that ww/arcade. There's simply no doubt about it. It's all about situational awareness and full real servers put the responsibility for maintaining it squarely on the pilot...just as it is in real life.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Full swich makes it redicolously easy to 1. hide 2. sneek up on someone and 3.escape. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>...sort of like it was in real life. If someone doesn't want to engage, they can avoid it. However, if they do want to engage, then they had better be prepared because there's no artificial queuing as provided in more relaxed setting servers. (lose sight, lose the fight)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Who said something about easy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> All I said was that full real servers are more difficult...and they are.

GR142-Pipper

TAGERT.
09-28-2005, 08:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
This is EXACTLY what I mean when people take this game too seriously and believe they are TRULY hotshot pilots. This is a computer game m8, you are not a real WW2 pilot... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>U R CLUELESS M8

SlickStick
09-28-2005, 09:19 AM
When hosting my 1 vs 1 server, I prefer all switches lit, except for "No Externals" and "No Speedbar". I usually fly pit-off servers with pit-on for the sheer fun of it all. I usually don't have the "immersion time" for full real.

Maybe when I retire. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

For me, the only way to 100% visually detect speed hack, warp and other connection issues is to use externals. Even with the tight server settings that I run, (3 SECS, 3% and MAX LAG at 1.0 NEAR 1.5 FAR) there are still folks who bind remote download starts or speed gear program effects to a hot key for instant use.

I like to see the ripples in the space-time continuum as they happen. Especially, knowing what evil lurks in the hearts of several squadrons on HL. Proven FACT. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Von_Rat
09-28-2005, 10:45 AM
i fly on wonder women servers somtimes.

i fly with my pit on, and still shoot down lots of enemy.

my guess is theres lots of bad or new pilots on ww servers.

just thought i'd throw some more gas on the flames,,,lol.

Da_Godfatha
09-28-2005, 10:59 AM
Have you also noticed that the No-cockpit servers almost ALWAYS have the same lame late war planes?

rnzoli
09-28-2005, 11:07 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif
10 minutes of my life is wasted - reading this useless thread.

But the two crowds trying to convince each other, is just hilarious.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I wonder many terabytes are wasted on UBI disks with this endlessly stupid subject. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Okay, this was my revenge for bringing up this silly discussion again.

FLY WHAT YOU LIKE. DON'T CARE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE.

Scen
09-28-2005, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
Have you also noticed that the No-cockpit servers almost ALWAYS have the same lame late war planes? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try Zeke's vs Wildcats...

Stigler_9_JG52
09-28-2005, 12:14 PM
Spitfiya wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Deflection shooting with the cockpit on is incredibly difficult, Deflection shooting of more then a few degrees is downright useless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly because it was in real life, too. There's a reason why H.J. Marseille was renowned as the Star of Afrika, because he was one of those select few to whom deflection shooting was natural. Almost everybody else really struggled with it. And that's why today's jets now have computers and HUDs to do it for you: because it's really tricky for humans to do it in their heads.

Some of you who immediately bring the "I'm superior" thing into it are merely proving my point about how the WonderWoman crowd basically move to distortion and misdirection tactics to justify their arcade choices. I'm not equating the cockpit view or the WonderWoman view as a sign that one is a better or worse person. You guys bring that inferiority complex into it yourselves. Kinda Freudian-slippish, if you ask me.

And, it's patently obvious to bring up the point that one can play how one wants. Duh. That's why the switches are there in the sim. What we're debating here is whether or not one is merely engaging in "another form of Doom/Quake" or is interested in exploring the simulation of combat in claustrophobic propellor-driven planes some sixty-odd years ago. If that's what your goal is, you can't conveniently pretend that planes don't have big engines in the way, wings in the way, cockpit bracing and bulkheads in the way, etc.; and while we all know that what we can see on a computer in a sim is more restrictive than in real life when you have binocular vision and the ability to move your head a bit more... simply ignoring any visual impediment in a cockpit is going WAY, WAY too far in the other direction.

WonderWoman fliers almost always go to "convenience and choice" to try to defend their method of flying. It's not about convenience and choice, it's about simulation. Unless all you're interested in is a game, in which case, it really doesn't matter what you choose.

Stigler_9_JG52
09-28-2005, 12:27 PM
HH-Quazi wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">After I found that I could actually follow a bogey using my hat switch, and really getting good at it, I find that I get more satisfaction when I get a kill now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amazing. Yet another person discovers why those little coolie hats are on nearly every joystick on the market. Because they're really amazing little inventions. Intuitive and easy to use, once you get the hang of it. Kinda like riding a bike.

You don't really have to have an expensive TrackIR or rely on padlock or anything like that to be able to see the world outside your 'pit. A hat (and an up-modifier pinky switch) are about all you need.

And going further, sometimes it's the ability to imagine and predict that is the really important visual element in a fight. You can't count on having visual contact to anything 100% of the time during a fight. Maneuvers, obstructions, other planes, wingmen, etc. all complicate the situation. That's a key concept in Situational Awareness, and it's not always the same thing as simple visual acquisition and tracking.

rnzoli
09-28-2005, 12:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
What we're debating here </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
...endlessly, for months and years, without conlusions, making everyone sick and tired and disappointed in the end.

Are there any people in the world, convinced by the heated arguments in these topics to move to more difficult/less difficult settings from their previous preferences?

I am a bit doubtful. Whether we want arcade games or hard-core simulations is a given thing already, and no amount of clear-cut logical reasoning will change that. Humans are irrational.

Stigler_9_JG52
09-28-2005, 01:59 PM
Well, I know some have moved to more "realistic" settings, but I have yet to see any former hardcore sim buffs abandon realistic settings for "arcade". And there are some who have always had the capacity to enjoy either.

Does that answer your question?

Xiolablu3
09-28-2005, 02:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
Xiolablu3 , while Stigler may be many things - he has a good handel on the options that add immersion , run him down if you will , but see where he's coming from & understand what he's trying to say

personally , Maddox Games would make my day if they made Bandit Lock (ground or air) in External view a switchable option on or off </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only reason I'm 'running him down' as you put it m8, is because he is attempting to 'run down' people who dont use cockpit on all the time.

Had he said, 'I prefer cockpit on and only fly on those servers' then fair enuff, but to say :

'And it's also clear that the WonderWoman crowd will glom onto any excuse they can to justify using this crutch, up to and including finding nits to pick about any other aspect of the game/sim. It's an application of the old, "You don't really die in the sim, so it's not realistic unless you uninstall the sim the first time you crash or get killed in the sim" argument. Distort the argument to cover up your blatantly self-serving "choices".'

He is just up his own a*se.

CUJO_1970
09-28-2005, 02:11 PM
I doubt if I would fly online at all if I had to fly in arcade servers.

I'm a pit-on elitist.

Xiolablu3
09-28-2005, 02:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
This is EXACTLY what I mean when people take this game too seriously and believe they are TRULY hotshot pilots. This is a computer game m8, you are not a real WW2 pilot... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>U R CLUELESS M8 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

About what exactly? ARE you a real WW2 pilot?

56th BMAC
09-28-2005, 04:31 PM
Okay, here's another view point that may or may not have been covered; if it has, my apologies for the repetition....

Here are three actual military pilots:

Monroe Q Williams: WWII vet. Flew P-47 and P-51
56th Shvak: Canadian Air Force. Flew jets and now flies helicopters.
56th Ghost: Portugal Air Force. Flies F-16's.

All three of these gentlemen fly mainly in pit off servers. The reason, as best I understand it, is due to the level of technology we have at this time. Is wonder woman view unrealistic? Sure. But the limits of technology and the inability to move in the cockpit and naturally track aircraft reduced to a couple pixels in a closed pit seems more unrealistic than the visual advantages open pit has.

That being said, my hat's off to you full-switch folks. You are flying at settings more difficult than "full real". I have enough problems without subjecting myself to that. The ideal server settings (for me) I think would allow for very short icons so you can ID aircraft at a distance pilots with 20/20 vision in real life could tell what was in the air with them (maybe .5K). Open pit, but get rid of the stupid arrows (I don't think this can be done). No external views except when on the ground cuz I enjoy watching the action sometimes.

If I'm an arcade-n00b for liking non-full-switch settings, then so be it. But I'd like to think the opinion of the above mentioned pilots might change the minds of some of the "Full Difficulty" members of the community as to their beliefs on folks not flying as they do being only Air Quake Neanderthalls.

Happy hunting!

Stigler_9_JG52
09-28-2005, 04:48 PM
We pretty much agree on those settings. I also believe that "full switch" is "overly difficult", but not for reasons of convenience: because the simulation effect is not very realistic, and things like icons are about the best simulation (important: not literal REcreation) of the overall visual acuity a WWII pilot would have. I think short range icons make up for some of the "dot pixel" problems the sim has.

I still don't see how anybody can make a case for cockpit-off being a panacea for the binocular vision, head movement and pixel size/FOV challenges the sim faces, though. I could go with translucent cockpit framing, or perhaps even stomach no framing to simulate this... but when the nose of the plane, the front panel, fuse walls and wings don't block the view, that's well too far in the other direction.

56th BMAC
09-28-2005, 04:53 PM
I agree Stigler. Pit off allows you to be able to see everything you could and could not in real life. I think the pit off view is the lesser of two evils caused by the technology we have now. Meaning: being able to see unrealistically more is not quite as unrealistic as being able to see unrealistically less. Hope that makes sense...

Xiolablu3
09-28-2005, 05:03 PM
I fly both, but I have to say up until now I have found wonder wman view on and externals on servers to be much more fun.

Dogfighting on these servers involves more action and maybe skill as there is not as much 'sneaking up' on people, you have to rely on your skills to survive.

When I was flying on full real servers I found there were a lot more boring long periods with no action then when u finally did find a enemy, it wasnt much trouble to take a long time setting up your shot and shoot him down, basically just involving making sure he didnt see you till the last minute. Fine for some I guess, too dull for me.

As this is a computer game, I want action and fun, I am not trying to delude myself that I am a real WW2 pilot. I want it as realistic as possible but also with as much fun / entertainment as possible. That said I dont like the pure DF servers as much as I used too, I like the servers with missions and targets, where the fighters can protect the bombers, and objectives.

Sorry if I got a bit heated before, I just find it hilarious the way people get all superior over such minor things...Its like geezus go and sh*g your girl for gods sake.

441Spyder
09-28-2005, 05:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
To each his own... I can enjoy the full gammut... except for the map icons... I just hate mapicons. It would be nice if you could run open cockpit with icons but no arrows. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I spent many an hour trying to figure out if this could be done, but it seems to part of the code that can't be turned off like the icons can. I wish it could be then it would be just about the perfect settings for me;
as far as I am concerned until a monitor can show dept of field & Peripheral vision and we can have roughly a set up that Ploughman talked about
"One day maybe we'll all have visor mounted wide angle screens, 6DOV Track-IR, pedals, throttle quadrants, and super-sticks to control our sky chariots and the simulation will be a simulation. I look forward to that day."

Then this full real that everyone thinks is just that is not even close. Try being in a cockpit and flying for real

441Spyder
09-28-2005, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
.
<span class="ev_code_RED">The arcade crowd </span> has been always more popular unfortunately but this game has settings for all choices of difficulty.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know I think that this forum is at times very Ridiculous and this

Full real VS <span class="ev_code_RED"> non full real</span>

is just silly ok all I have to say is have you been seated in a cockpit of say a SPIT MkIX ?
I€m betting the answer is no well I can tell you I have and the view that you really have is not even close to what is represented in this sim
because we can see in a 3D and have Peripheral vision and a 2D monitor will never be able to reproduce those things i really wish it could

As for the <span class="ev_code_RED">The arcade crowd </span>(offensive term)
just because the insanely restrictive cockpit is not there does not make it ARCADE if I wanted arcade I would install and play Crimson Skies
Perhaps more people here should try being less offensive to others <span class="ev_code_RED">non full real</span>(non offensive term)
As you said "this game has settings for all choices of difficulty." so to each there own,
no one particular set of settings is more realistic than another just different. Why is it not many people here can understand this. before you get into a server just take a look at the settings if you don't like them then find one that you do like there are plenty of servers out there, if there isn't one with the settings of your choice then put up your own and stop *****ing about it and ****ing how others play the game.

Pentallion
09-28-2005, 06:23 PM
What Spydey said.

From day one, the gripe about Oleg's sim was that he chose to call the setting full REAL instead of Max. Difficulty. Sublte, but very important distinction there.

Full Real Isn't.

Jumoschwanz
09-28-2005, 08:14 PM
The popularity of different server settings follows the Bell-Curve to a tee.
So at the top of the curve, most of the population resides flying with wonder-woman ease.
Those with exceptional apptitude, intelligence and skill, tread the sparsely populated far right of the curve.

I always flew full-difficulty settings ever since day one when I was on a 900mhz rig with a 17"crt, and had no problems at all. But that is because I had the right stuff.

S!

Jumoschwanz

441Spyder
09-28-2005, 09:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
The popularity of different server settings follows the Bell-Curve to a tee.
So at the top of the curve, most of the population resides flying with wonder-woman ease.
Those with exceptional apptitude, intelligence and skill, tread the sparsely populated far right of the curve.

I always flew full-difficulty settings ever since day one when I was on a 900mhz rig with a 17"crt, and had no problems at all. But that is because I had the right stuff.

S!

Jumoschwanz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
so tipical you are no better that any other person that flies this sim you just fly different settings. Get over your self and get off this i'm better than you cause i fly these settings and you don't.
this is just the kind of small minded thing that i see on this forum every day
what is wrong with you people for gods sake

BaldieJr
09-28-2005, 10:25 PM
I am an ace who can score at will. I attribute my amazing skillset to practicing on realistic settings.

Much like Jumoschwanz, I had the winning attitude from day one. I had shot down entire squadrons before I knew that turning off the cockpit was possible in il2. I probably should have read the game manual. I rarely do that since keybindings and game features are meaningless at my aptitude.

I consider myself fortunate to have this much talent (and good looks too). Most real fighter pilots flew thousands of hours before scoring. I had my first kill within minutes of starting the demo.

96th_Nightshifter
09-28-2005, 10:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
Those with exceptional apptitude, intelligence and skill, tread the sparsely populated far right of the curve.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh c'mon! Are you REALLY trying to say that people that don't fly full switch have none of the above qualitys?
You my friend are in need of some serious real life time if that is what you truly beleive - put down that joystick, take a walk outside and clear you head.
I happen to fly "in the Real world" but I don't fly full switch in this game (yes game) majority of the time as it is not as realistic as some of you would have everyone else think.
Lets all just do as we have been doing; play how you want to play and have fun instead of coming in here and trying to make yourselfs out to be better than others.

GR142-Pipper
09-28-2005, 10:39 PM
I'm constantly amazed here on the IL-2 forums to see how so much can be read into posts which doesn't exist. The basic thrust of the discussion was that full real servers are more DIFFICULT than those servers which have more relaxed settings. That's simply a statement of pure fact, no more and no less.

It seems that many who prefer more relaxed servers take serious exception when this straightforward statement of fact is presented. The discussion swiftly turns to what is more realistic or "better" rather than what is simply more or less difficult. I find the full real servers both more realistic as well as more difficult. Many others don't share that view. If people prefer more relaxed server settings then by all means fly on those servers and enjoy them. There are enough servers to go around to meet everyone's preferences.

But folks, please READ the posts before replying to words which aren't there.

GR142-Pipper

TAGERT.
09-28-2005, 10:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
About what exactly? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Everything, but most notably the fact that nobody, let alone I, claimed to be a WWII pilot.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
ARE you a real WW2 pilot? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope, and never said I was. Take your meds, maybe than you will stop seeing things that are not there?

441Spyder
09-28-2005, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
I'm constantly amazed here on the IL-2 forums to see how so much can be read into posts which doesn't exist. The basic thrust of the discussion was that full real servers are more DIFFICULT than those servers which have more relaxed settings. That's simply a statement of pure fact, no more and no less.


It seems that many who prefer more relaxed servers take serious exception when this straightforward statement of fact is presented. The discussion swiftly turns to what is more realistic or "better" rather than what is simply more or less difficult. I find the full real servers both more realistic as well as more difficult. Many others don't share that view. If people prefer more relaxed server settings then by all means fly on those servers and enjoy them. There are enough servers to go around to meet everyone's preferences.

But folks, please READ the posts before replying to words which aren't there.

GR142-Pipper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually pipper what you are saying is just fine and is your opinion and you have said it in a fine manner that is not Derogatory or demeaning to others. You have not said that it is arcadeish or that you are better than others because you fly on full real servers and we don't.that is what i take exception to.
For this i am glad, you have your way of playing as i do mine and you do not judge me or others because we don't play it your way

rnzoli
09-29-2005, 03:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
Well, I know some have moved to more "realistic" settings, but I have yet to see any former hardcore sim buffs abandon realistic settings for "arcade". And there are some who have always had the capacity to enjoy either.

Does that answer your question? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really. I also know many people who started challenging themselves with the more difficult settings. But this was NOT the result of someone convincing them with reasoning. Their desire to try higher difficulty settings seems to be rooted much deeeper inside them, somewhere in their basic values and beliefs.

Due to that, the far ends of the difficulty spectrum is in antagonistic opposition.

So instead of walking down the usually misleading path of discussing what is more realistic, I can only see the value of clarifying regular misconceptions about certain settings, and giving tips how to enjoy them more. Anything beyond that is rather pointless.

BaronUnderpants
09-29-2005, 10:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaldieJr:
I am an ace who can score at will. I attribute my amazing skillset to practicing on realistic settings.

Much like Jumoschwanz, I had the winning attitude from day one. I had shot down entire squadrons before I knew that turning off the cockpit was possible in il2. I probably should have read the game manual. I rarely do that since keybindings and game features are meaningless at my aptitude.

I consider myself fortunate to have this much talent (and good looks too). Most real fighter pilots flew thousands of hours before scoring. I had my first kill within minutes of starting the demo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Good one...i almost wet my underpants http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

BaronUnderpants
09-29-2005, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
I'm constantly amazed here on the IL-2 forums to see how so much can be read into posts which doesn't exist. The basic thrust of the discussion was that full real servers are more DIFFICULT than those servers which have more relaxed settings. That's simply a statement of pure fact, no more and no less.

If people prefer more relaxed server settings then by all means fly on those servers and enjoy them.


GR142-Pipper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Even better http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif STOP IT!!! im dying http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

BaronUnderpants
09-29-2005, 11:10 AM
I always known from when i was a little toddler that i exept from beeing every girls/womans/mothers dream, possesed extrem skills in flying, even though i never in my life actually flown a plane myselfe.
The only reason im not on a full swich server blasting u people out of the sky in droves is the sad fact that i cant SEE u.... exept if the background is clear blue sky, wich makes it difficoult to have the E and altitude advantage before engaging.
If i could i would make u fear playing any kind of flight sim ever again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

TheGozr
09-29-2005, 11:49 AM
Baron i can defenitly see that you didn't fight with some of the full swicth or almost full swicth fighters around. keep it up you may learn some good tricks.

NorrisMcWhirter
09-29-2005, 12:18 PM
I suppose this makes a refreshing change from 'the P51 is porked' threads http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris

BaronUnderpants
09-29-2005, 02:27 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Was just trying to take it to the same level as some of the other posters http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tully__
09-29-2005, 08:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I thought the whole point of using/playing/flying a "SIM" was to SIMULATE the real thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Different people have different concepts of what the real thing was about or have different priorities of what part of the experience they wish to simulate. For some the WonderWoman servers provide in their estimation the best simulation of the thrill of the kill. It's all a matter of perspective and since we each have a different perspective we will each have a different priority for settings.

Personally I fly a variety of settings and server types, depending on my mood at the time.

arcadeace
09-29-2005, 08:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I thought the whole point of using/playing/flying a "SIM" was to SIMULATE the real thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Different people have different concepts of what the real thing was about or have different priorities of what part of the experience they wish to simulate. For some the WonderWoman servers provide in their estimation the best simulation of the thrill of the kill. It's all a matter of perspective and since we each have a different perspective we will each have a different priority for settings.

Personally I fly a variety of settings and server types, depending on my mood at the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And how many members do you think will digest this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

HellToupee
09-29-2005, 10:34 PM
i perfer cogpit on, but perfer externals on, being able to see the action watch my plane while flying to and from anything, even tho i dont get to fly much on servers with externals, i just find full switch gets mighty boring in the periods u arnt fighting, things like take off are very tedious often u ant even find the runway. And the bars in the cogpit arg!

The easy hard argument is kinda moot, no setting is harder, while with ww on its easyer to shoot down targets its also much much harder to survive when you have someone on you, with cogpit on its harder diflection shooting and following targets looking at the world thru a keyhole but then its also much easyer to survive on since they can also lose sight of you easily.

Tully__
09-29-2005, 10:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Arcadeace:
And how many members do you think will digest this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

About 1% but it's worth the try http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

luftluuver
09-29-2005, 11:49 PM
Does any game out there have a no canopy view?

rnzoli
09-30-2005, 02:04 AM
MSFS 2004, for example.

rnzoli
09-30-2005, 02:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Arcadeace:
And how many members do you think will digest this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

About 1% but it's worth the try http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Be realistic, Tully, not more than 0.01%. Still worth the try once every month, though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG52Karaya-X
09-30-2005, 07:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rudolf_Gul:
Seems like the majority (or at least very very many) of the DF servers on Hyperlobby have "cockpit off" in their settings, often along with externals too.

Whats up with that? I thought the whole point of using/playing/flying a "SIM" was to SIMULATE the real thing. Is it really that much more difficult to fly with cockpit on than off. I've only tried flying without pit a few times and to me its just horrible. It makes this fine sim into just any arcade game. I realize that some people may like this but I though that at least the majority of sim flyers would appreciate a "as close as the real thing as possible" settings. Im not out to flame anyone, everyone has their own preferences, but Im curious why not more people fly with more realistic settings than what is being reflected on HL.

Cheers
Rudolf </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chaqun son gout http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Xiolablu3
09-30-2005, 07:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
About what exactly? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Everything, but most notably the fact that nobody, let alone I, claimed to be a WWII pilot.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
ARE you a real WW2 pilot? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope, and never said I was. Take your meds, maybe than you will stop seeing things that are not there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ZZZZzzzzzzz , not got time to carry this sad argument on...

Xiolablu3
09-30-2005, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I thought the whole point of using/playing/flying a "SIM" was to SIMULATE the real thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Different people have different concepts of what the real thing was about or have different priorities of what part of the experience they wish to simulate. For some the WonderWoman servers provide in their estimation the best simulation of the thrill of the kill. It's all a matter of perspective and since we each have a different perspective we will each have a different priority for settings.

Personally I fly a variety of settings and server types, depending on my mood at the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good post.