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womenfly
09-07-2005, 08:00 AM
if while attacking a bomber or any aircraft with gunners, can you put them out of action?

Why I ask is that, while firing directly into the tail gunners postion of a B-17 flying a Me109 using the nose canon, I had several direct hits taking off the stab and pieces of the rudder and hits right into the tail gunners postion. No matter how many rounds I placed into the tail the gunner keep firing back ... all the way to the ground!

Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong? ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

Happens with Japanese aircraft too with rear gunners.

KIMURA
09-07-2005, 08:05 AM
AFAIK you can put the the tail gunner, ooopps rear-gunner, of the Bf110G-2 out of action.

Dtools4fools
09-07-2005, 08:06 AM
Take up the 4 engined Russian bomber. Jump into top gunner position. Sart shooting your buddies. Gunner, copilot, pilot.

You will experience that they last longer than engines...

****

LEBillfish
09-07-2005, 08:16 AM
I have had mixed experiences, even in testing. There have been times I have been able to "pick off" AI gunners, others no matter how much ammo I flood a gunner area with I get no result at all......However, if you shoot down a bomber after raking it a few times, often you can did as they actually did and count chutes...Pausing the sim (if in SP), you'll see those killed still in their positions....

In kind I have often found guns tend to go muzzle down when the gunner is killed.

FlatSpinMan
09-07-2005, 08:29 AM
You can do it on the Heinkel111 for sure. It does take luck but when you do you will see the gunner slump over his gun. The pilot will too. Haven't noticed it on other planes. I know it's morbid but it makes a difference, I think.

HotelBushranger
09-07-2005, 08:31 AM
You know youve got the pilot when the crew bail out of an aircraft relatively undamaged.

F19_Ob
09-07-2005, 08:35 AM
Online I often man gunner positions myself and it sure is easy to get wasted that way.
One example:
In a b25 I took a single mk108 hit not too close to the gunnerseat and got killed.
Seemingly it's often so that one have to take a hit in the head to get killed immediately and hits to the body makes the gunner injured but still able to fire. A live person gets red and the more injuries the darker it gets but one still seemingly can move and shoot. A pilot is hampered in movements when injured and have difficulties steering the plane but a gunner don't seem affected the same way.

If u switch to arcademode in conf.ini (change 0 to 1 and save) u get the shrapnel and bullet arrows and can see where the shrapnel hits (arcademode doesnt work on ".ntrk's" or "onlinetracks" though). on a few occasions and on some angles an arrow may penetrate the head without the pilot dieing but I imagine that the hitbox is square and perhaps dont follow the heads shape exactly.
This is what I think.

So as conclusion, what kills a pilot or gunner is a relatively small area and if one looks where the shrapnel-arrows go its often possible to hit close and all the arrows miss the vital area that terminates a gunners life.

Not perfect I know, but still the best yet in any sim I've tried. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Kuna15
09-07-2005, 09:13 AM
Last time I checked tail gunner in B-17G he was monster armed... he took few MK108s in the little glass above gun barrel and still keep firing. Will test how tough he is now in 4.01. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jaws2002
09-07-2005, 09:24 AM
I remember you couldn't kill the rear gunner in the Pe-8 at some point. Not sure if it was fixed. Someone posted some screen shots shooting the gunner from like ten meters with 20mm and nothing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Sturm_Williger
09-07-2005, 09:32 AM
Well, AI gunners are practically immortal - with their shooting skills, they'll kill you long before you kill them.

But if a HUMAN has taken over the gunner position, it's relatively easy to kill him if you hit nearby with cannon shells.

Which sucks, frankly, given that ( with exceptions of course ) mostly the human gunner is a worse shot. It's the AI one we NEED to kill/disable.

Not sure why there's a difference though.

Kuna15
09-07-2005, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
I remember you couldn't kill the rear gunner in the Pe-8 at some point. Not sure if it was fixed. Someone posted some screen shots shooting the gunner from like ten meters with 20mm and nothing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Yeah... there's been cases when B-17G tail gunner chewed ~10 MK108s from my Bf-109G but that didn't confused him, he just keep firing at me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Generally speaking they are tough but important thing is that they can die from lead poison. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

I have just tested it; they died, PE-8 tail gunner (20mm) with burst from G.50, and B-17G tail gunner with Bf-109 13mm fire.

tigertalon
09-07-2005, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by womenfly:
if while attacking a bomber or any aircraft with gunners, can you put them out of action?


Keep in mind that many gunners were heavily armoured in the direction of most probable attack. I am quite sure B17 tail gunners armour and armour glass could sustain 13mm or even 20mm non API hits. 20mm or 30mm AP(I) - especially Mk103 - that's debatable.

F19_Ob
09-07-2005, 02:41 PM
I just tested the 30mm cannon on 109K4 with single bops with only the cannon against four friendly b17's, so they didnt shoot back.
I flew 11 sorties and got 16 gunnerkills and some pilotkills.

Kocur_
09-07-2005, 03:12 PM
My personal favourite is gunner of Il-2 field mod. TOTALLY exposed, TOTALLY unprotected, yet still alive after no-matter-how-many mg/cannon hits on his plane.

Current AI gunners are all Terminators, both in survability and sniping. Oh and dedication: how many times I was shot by gunner(s) of a bomber falling down without one wing or half of fuselage...

horseback
09-07-2005, 04:11 PM
Gotta agree wholeheartedly with Kocur there--it's a pain seeing the ricochets flying off the armor plate behind that son of a gun while he continues to blaze away at you.

The Terminator image is quite apt. One can easily picture the Gubernator himself standing in the wreckage of the gunner's postion, firing that 12.7 HMG from his hip, hitting approaching aircraft 600m away...

cheers

horseback

FI_Willie
09-07-2005, 04:50 PM
Here is apparently dead IL-2 gunner.. The pilot bailed through him. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif He stopped shooting after the first few rounds hit his plane.
ftp://68.189.216.86/190%20Wierdness/grab0006.JPG

Only one chute before the thing crashed. Took it apart with a 190A8 in one of the offline camps.

horseback
09-08-2005, 12:23 PM
Agreed, you CAN kill the ai gunner--but it's a rare occurance, in fact close to the ultimate Golden BB in-game.

cheers

horseback