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View Full Version : WHATS best FX5900 or RADEON9800 pro?



XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:05 PM
I just want new video card. and thouse 2 cost almost the same, so whats best?
my current system:
P4 2.8 GHZ /800fbs
512mb ddr ram PC3200
Geforce 4 Ti 4200 with 128 mb.

THX

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Message Edited on 08/29/03 08:05PM by VMF513_Wolf

Message Edited on 08/29/0308:06PM by VMF513_Wolf

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:05 PM
I just want new video card. and thouse 2 cost almost the same, so whats best?
my current system:
P4 2.8 GHZ /800fbs
512mb ddr ram PC3200
Geforce 4 Ti 4200 with 128 mb.

THX

<center>
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Message Edited on 08/29/03 08:05PM by VMF513_Wolf

Message Edited on 08/29/0308:06PM by VMF513_Wolf

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:18 PM
bump/i/smilies/16x16_robot-sad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:20 PM
Flip a coin.

25th_Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:21 PM
what about some usefull info?/i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:22 PM
Both are great cards. In Maximum PC mag it said that the cards are very similar. One card will shine in one area while the other shines in another. Personaly I would go with Nvidia for this reason, Nvidia is launching partners with just about everyone now meaning that those games were designed with the Nvidia chipset in mind. Meaning that they should play better with Nvidia cards and produce less bugs. I'm not biased towards either company just stating the facts. Good luck with your choice/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:24 PM
Personally I prefer ati, but as buzz said if you have no brand preference flip a coin.

rogo

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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:24 PM
Well.... you'll likely get alot of differing opinions from those who swear by nVidia and those who swear by ATI but ultimately there is little difference (maybe FX is a little bit faster, maybe R98p has slightly better image quality) between the two (they're both cutting edge cards) except for price (FX5900 being about 200$ more).

but... you say the price is about equal (as available to you) so I'm not sure what to tell you, lol- sorry....

Cheers, and a little bump- 'cause I know my answer isn't one /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:25 PM
when u talk of NVidia, u mean Geforce Fx..right?
P.S. just cheking/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:29 PM
Yes Nvidia is Gforce.

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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:33 PM
You guys really need to resize your avatars down to like 70% less!

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:33 PM
oK thx ALL/i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif U 2 BUZZ/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:34 PM
yep

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:36 PM
chlywly wrote:
- You guys really need to resize your avatars down to
- like 70% less!
-
-
Why? Because you say so? You just come in here to say that and offer not advice on the topic of the thread? WAAAAAmbalance....LOL


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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:39 PM
chlywly wrote:
- You guys really need to resize your avatars down to
- like 70% less!
-
-

BAH! go away/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif !/i/smilies/16x16_robot-tongue.gif !

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XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 09:51 PM
Threshes firingsqaud just did a revewiw between the two.
basicall said one has better antialiasing and the other has better ansiotropic filtering.

the price is cheaper on the nvidia if you look in the right place. Looks like they got desperate.

i prefer the ati with overall image quality 2d and 3d
but read the review those guys are fair.



try http://www.pricewatch.com/ they have some good prices thier.



http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/imagequalityshootout/default.asp

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 10:36 PM
Guys in our squad have tested both and the 5900 ULTRA lost hands down.

Get a 9800PRO or save a few bucks and get a 9800 NP and BIOS Flash if you get the Samsung or Hynix memory chips, don't bother to flash if you get the Infineron.

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 03:54 AM
a squad mate has BOTH , he also has a fast PC ......

the ATI produces the better graphical quality on his PC with the ATI driver he is running

results differ from computer to computer , but ATI is quieter

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 03:57 AM
I've always disliked the long PCB design of nvidia cards since the G4s-this is the same-butts up against your HDs or bays (in a small case), it also resticts airflow through the case.

rogo

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"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 03:59 AM
VMF513_Wolf

I didn't want to get into any long debates again. This has been asked many times. I've had both the 9800Pro and the 5900Ultra. That are both very good cards. Some say the ATI has a better image. I personally don't see it. I think the 5900 is faster. I'm using the 5900 now, but as I said. Flip a coin. You can't go wrong with either.

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 04:01 AM
I think we should set up a tournament...ATI users vs Nvidia users... I`ll host /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 05:22 AM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- I think we should set up a tournament...ATI users vs
- Nvidia users... I`ll host /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
- Regards,
- VFC*Crazyivan
- http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif
-
- "No matter how good the violin may be, much depends
- on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy
- pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub
-

/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif LOL/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 05:29 AM
How many FPs do u get with FX5900?
I have from 30 to 75 with my Ti4200..38 most of the time/i/smilies/16x16_robot-sad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 05:41 AM
It would depend on all the settings. I didn't stick the 5900 in a slow system, so I don't how much it would help you to compare.

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 06:10 AM
VMF513_Wolf wrote:
- what about some usefull info?

Get more memory. 512MB is tiny, compared to everything else on your computer.

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 09:02 AM
You got it Baloban!!! Get at least a Gig of RAM and either card is ok. Personally, I'd get the 9800 Pro because ATI doesn't cheat as much in the benchmark tests.

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 10:08 AM
VMF513_Wolf wrote:
- How many FPs do u get with FX5900?
- I have from 30 to 75 with my Ti4200..38 most of the
- time


i think you know the answer already.
since FX5900 is 5X more expensive than your Ti4200 you should get atlaest 4X FPS than you get from your current card /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 03:17 PM
I had the same dilemma. I chose GeForce because
9800 = 5th Gen
5900 = 6th Gen

9800 $ = 5900 $

Nvida has a more aggressive drive update schedule.


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-- Robert E. Lee

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 03:49 PM
ok/i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 05:18 PM
"Nvida has a more aggressive drive update schedule."

No they don't, ati in the last 5 months has released 4 whql driver update-nvidia released 2.

rogo


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"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

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ZG77_Nagual
08-30-2003, 05:26 PM
I've got the 9800 pro - I've been talking with an ati r&d guy who mods these cards over at www.rage3d.com (http://www.rage3d.com). My 9700 non-pro - with samsung ram overclocked - will match the 9800 pro even with the pro oc'd at 400/366 (9700 oc'd at 365/354 but you have to get one with right ram. My opinion - bang for buck ati is better. also 256meg on the ati card just sits there unless you are running extremely high resolutions.

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 05:53 PM
My 9700 non pro sapphire with samsung 2.8ns ram after just a bios flash runs pro speeds just fine-but to really get up there you will probably need to do a real volt mod to both the core and the memory-this requires some real soldering skill so I've yet to do it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

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"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 06:06 PM
The FX5900U is stock clocked quite a bit higher than the ATI 9800pro and the performance difference between the two is hardly noticeable.

IMO NVidia were in a rush in an attempt to take back the crown which ATI snatched with thier 9700pro.

Also the FX5900U is priced higher than the 9800pro for reasons unjustified.

I have for many reasons have some degree of doubt or trust with NVidia at this point even though I am currantly using the TI4600 right now.

I can't honestly justify the cost both compananies are asking for iether of these cards considering paying like close to $700 CDN for chessy performance gains IMO. I will wait and see what the next generation cards coming out will perform like before I open my wallet.

I hope both both ATI and NVidia can stay neck and neck in the compition game cause we'll all hopefully bennefit that way.

ATI 9800pro would be my coice because it is cheaper and I think would have more over clock potentual(on the safe side)than the FX5900U.

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 06:08 PM
JRJacobs wrote:
- I had the same dilemma. I chose GeForce because
- 9800 = 5th Gen
- 5900 = 6th Gen
-
- 9800 $ = 5900 $
-
- Nvida has a more aggressive drive update schedule.

about everything you said there was inaccurate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

9800 and 5900 are the same gen parts, just because the 5900 came out after dosnt mean it is a next gen part, it just means nvidia had problems bringing earlier chips out(5800s), which pushed the 5900 back

infact the 9800 would be considerd superior in generation.
here is a good article on the top cards running a true dx9 game with pixel shader 2.0 highest level "meaning that DirectX9 boards are required to run the full functionality the game has". I recommend you read the whole article as it will really give you a good idea of what the cards are "really" capable of, when the next generation games come up.
http://www.beyond3d.com/misc/traod_dx9perf/


here is the part that matters most
http://www.beyond3d.com/misc/traod_dx9perf/index.php?p=5

quote
"By default we see that there are quite a number of differences between the ATI and NVIDIA boards. By default there is no PS2.0 DoF effects for the FX boards whereas there is for the ATI boards, 16bit textures are used for the FX boards for reflections, but 32bit for the ATI boards, there is a more cubmaps and a higher number of updates done with the Radeons and the PS2.0 shadows are enabled by default for the Radeons.

With these settings things are evened out in terms of performance quite considerably, however the Radeons still appear to be performing the fastest here and they have a many more settings enabled than the FX boards."

to summerize, the ati boards are capable of higher level of rendering by default in a true dx9 game.

also in march(i believe) ati anounced their plans for catalyst, and said there would be no less then 12 driver updates a year. Which is why we have been seeing a driver update every month for the past seveal months. Its not because they have to, it is because they want to.

it really is a coin toss between the 2 cards. they are evenly priced, one is slightly faster, one has slightly better quality. its up to you to decide.

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 06:27 PM
how can I overclocke my Ti4200? I'll wait a bit so I can bye FX with 256 mb.....so how do I overglock my old?
THX

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Message Edited on 08/30/0305:46PM by VMF513_Wolf

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 06:43 PM
Rogo,

ATI released more official drivers than nvidia, because they needed them../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


To all,
Bottom line to all you ATI fanboys. The 5900 Ultra is a better card. I know. I've had your 9800 Pro.

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 06:54 PM
Nvidia had to release drivers that suppposedly fixed all the probems with 3dmark and UT2003-they were the ones that had major problems not ati.

And all of ati's were whql while nvidia was only releasing nonwhql drivers because they couldn't legitimately win benchmarks without hardcoded drivers-thus they didn't release whql cert drivers until the 43.

I would agree with you buzz if you said "the 5900U is a better card for me than a 9800pro." not "the 5900U is a better card than the 9800PRO."

Decent reviews are saying the cards are a draw at best so I don't know why you continue to say that the 5900U is better for everyone.

rogo

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"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 06:54 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- Rogo,
-
- ATI released more official drivers than nvidia,
- because they needed them../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
-
-
-
- To all,
- Bottom line to all you ATI fanboys. The 5900 Ultra
- is a better card. I know. I've had your 9800 Pro.

-

jusr curious Buzzz,,
do you wear any glasses or contact lenses??


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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 07:07 PM
Rogo,

I'll stop saying it, when you ATI guys stop saying it.

I also don't believe what I read in all those tests like alot of you guys. Some of you are very selective on which tests you quote. Usually only the ones that favor ATI.

When someone asks which card is better. I usually stay neutral, and say both cards are good. Then the ATI fanboys show up and start putting the 5900 down, when they have no personal experience with it. It gets old, and that's when i'll say what I really feel. The 5900 is a better card, because i've experienced both cards, and that's my opinion. Which I thought was the question on this thread. How can anybody answer that question without having owned both cards?

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 07:18 PM
\m/ FX5900 Ultra (256MB DDR) \m/

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 07:28 PM
i dont have FX 5900U, but my nephew does and he let me test/compare it with my system.


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ZG77_Nagual
08-30-2003, 07:42 PM
385/358 - in order to get this I flashed the bios and put heat sinks on the ram along with a zalman hp80a gpu cooler with 80mm silent fan. this rig cost me about $30us and increased the clock speeds dramatically. (ramsinks are really the important part) speed above tested in 3dmark03 with no artifacts or other errors. I have the same card (Saphire 9700 np - samsung ram)- I could only get a bit above pro speeds without the added cooling - no soldering or hardware mods to the card at all.
also the hacked omega drivers mod it up further to a 9800 - havent' tested raising the clock with them. for IL2 I run 360/354 just to be cool http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


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Message Edited on 08/30/0302:46PM by ZG77_Nagual

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 07:44 PM
"Guys in our squad have tested both and the 5900 ULTRA lost hands down"

Interesting, what did you test?

Does your test match what I see here:

http://www.tomshardward.com

Buzz is probably right on by saying flip a coin.

With the latest nvidia digital vibrance feature, my nvidia looks pretty nice now.



I can get a 5900 non ultra, 128 for $299 - that sound ok?

The 98000 pro is $399, 98000 $299

trying to see what the best bang for buck is

S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 08:05 PM
If you want to have good fpos on future dx 9 games then go directly at ati.

Tests with last Tomb raider game (dx 9) showed the poor performance of GForceFX cards with dx9. Even the 5900 ultra falls behind the 9500 no pro in some resolutions /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

with dx8.1 both cars have more or less the same power / quality of image... so it's your choice

But bear in mind that you can find yourself with the most expensive card in your pc and having poor fps in newer games if buy an FX card.

more info read this -> http://www.beyond3d.com/misc/traod_dx9perf/

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Zayets
08-30-2003, 08:20 PM
Had received unexpected funds and since I really want to know how ATI 9800 pro moves I will buy one. If I'm not satisfied (for that price /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif ) I will put back my Ti4600. I work to build my wife a computer , of course , I will take the best card , actually she will not even notice any difference (she does not play). Let's see how the stuffs are going , you guys made me really curious. Since almost 4 years at home I had only nVidia. Let's try an ATI.

Zayets out

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 08:22 PM
www.anandtech.com (http://www.anandtech.com) has all your answers and more.....Cheers

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 08:22 PM
Some one!!!!! where can I get software to overclock my old videocard til I get new one?+??? hElP!!/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 08:25 PM
LMAO/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif THATS BIGGEST post I ever started/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif ......oh I got it they are both good(FX is faster, RD have better picture)/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif U may stop now/i/smilies/16x16_robot-tongue.gif

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XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 08:34 PM
do a search for "powerstrip"

or "rivatuner"

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 08:37 PM
thx

<center>
http://www.army.fr.pl/foto/mig31.jpg <center>
<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b] HAHAHAHAHAHA <marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b]

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 08:53 PM
Sliceback wrote:
- Get a 9800PRO or save a few bucks and get a 9800 NP
- and BIOS Flash if you get the Samsung or Hynix
- memory chips, don't bother to flash if you get the
- Infineron.



I have a 9800 non-pro and i am really interested in what you are talking about? some more info maybe or a link please??? i would like to try that, my 9800 non-pro is an ati built card if that helps. thanx

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 08:59 PM
Go to this url (rage3d.com tweakers forum) and you will find out how to flash your bios to a retail (where to get the bios) and how to use radedit.

I did it to my 9700 non pro, and will do it to my 9800 non pro when i get it.

rogo

http://www.rage3d.com/board/forumdisplay.php?s=b07c530de5e36b56b93056bd3ec47bd 7&forumid=22

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 09:08 PM
This is what PC Pro had to say:

If you want the ultimate in all-round performance, the PNY GeForce FX 5900 Ultra just takes the lead. However, in the benchmarks we've used, the Radeons are faster in DirectX 9.

BobTuck.

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 09:23 PM
I affirmed what you said buzz "best to flip a coin"

or if your brand loyal just pick the brand you like. I never said the "9800PRO 256mb card is better across the board than a 5900U."

I'm acually buying a new card and will get the sapphire 9800OEM from newegg.com for $249. I looked at the FX cards and the only one in the same price bracket was the 5600U-I found the 5900nonU for $330 but that's over my limit and once I flashe the 9800 it will be as fast and faster than a 5900nonultra.

can't beat that for performance to dollar ratio.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 09:30 PM
Has anybody o/c the 5900? I've never tried. I wonder what I could get the 3.2 up too. Falcon would shoot me, but I won't tell if you won't.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 09:36 PM
I beleive that there is a new review of the 5900nonu at nvnews.net on the mainpage and it OC'd wonderfully, firing squad did the review I believe (they gave it a 80%)

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 09:48 PM
I don't want to smoke my system because it runs so sweet, but I would like to see what scores I could get just for laughs.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 09:53 PM
They would probably be laughable /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

for laughs

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

rogo

You might need a compressor based mobile refrigerant system to keep that bad boy cool /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



It would be fun to try the oc on it-what's the stock clock?

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 09:59 PM
Hmmmm..That's a good question. I seem to have lost my utility to o/c with these drivers.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 11:20 PM
Buzz they are still in the Nvidia part of the software

go to your advanced display properties
and under the geforce FX tab you will see Clock Frequency's on the right hand pane

Cheers



http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hcsl/sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-30-2003, 11:26 PM
I know that Bob, but i'm using the 44.67 drivers, and it's gone now. Probably because they're not official drivers.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

ZG77_Nagual
08-30-2003, 11:40 PM
maximum pc used the 5900ultra in their dream machine - they said it overclocked very nicely with stock cooling.

sometimes Max pc is one off however - though they did have the good taste to use my mainboard in their dream machine.



http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 02:04 AM
I just replaced my 4200 with an ATI 9800, and its ok, but not really worth the extra money... Probably no different than the 5900 though..

(P4 2.8HT, 1gig dual channel DDR400)

<img src=http://home.insightbb.com/%7Edspinnett/NonSpeed/SpeedToys.jpg </img>
http://hometown.aol.com/spinnetti/

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 02:22 AM
the fx5900 is *GREAT* if you are deaf or your computer isn't located in the same room(house) as you are. If you are afraid from features like FSAA and ansinotropic filtering, *REST ASSURED!* you are save with the fx5900, because it will come crumbling down at the first sight of it.

the radeon9800pro is similar to the fx5900, but unlike the fx5900, you won't get a free 'ambient music' of a vacuumcleaner with it. radeon9800pro can handle FSAA and AF much better. my recommendation: wait for next gen of cards. which will be much better (5900 and 9800 can handle it, but don't get crazy) at processing DX9 content. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif




: + ) = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif --- ; + ) = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif --- : + ( = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif --- : + o = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif --- : + P = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif --- : + | = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif --- : + <u>?</u> = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 02:49 AM
Fressness,

You don't have a clue what your talking about. My 5900 is quieter than a 9800. Your thinking about the 5800.

I also run the 5900 at 8x fsaa with no problems, and it looks better than the 9800 at 6x fsaa.

Do you have anymore useless information that you think you read somewhere?

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 03:02 AM
BuzzU wrote:
- Fressness,
-
- You don't have a clue what your talking about. My
- 5900 is quieter than a 9800. Your thinking about the
- 5800.
-
-
- I also run the 5900 at 8x fsaa with no problems,
- and it looks better than the 9800 at 6x fsaa.
-
-
- Do you have anymore useless information that you
- think you read somewhere?


yup, my mistake, I mixed up 5800 and 5900. haven't been keeping track of NVIDIA since 5800. will I go to hell now? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



---------------------
: + ) = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
; + ) = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
: + ( = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
: + o = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
: + P = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
: + | = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
: + <u>?</u> = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<h6>- need help whining? (393k) (http://users.pandora.be/vnnet/forum/016.exe)
- Don't call me chris! (814k) (http://users.pandora.be/vnnet/forum/dontcallmechris.avi)
- Why you should eat breakfast (344k) (http://users.pandora.be/vnnet/forum/eatbreakfast.avi)</h6>

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 03:06 AM
Sorry for my rant. Your excused now../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 03:08 AM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif



---------------------
: + ) = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
; + ) = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
: + ( = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
: + o = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
: + P = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
: + | = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
: + <u>?</u> = /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif<h6>- need help whining? (393k) (http://users.pandora.be/vnnet/forum/016.exe)
- Don't call me chris! (814k) (http://users.pandora.be/vnnet/forum/dontcallmechris.avi)
- Why you should eat breakfast (344k) (http://users.pandora.be/vnnet/forum/eatbreakfast.avi)</h6>

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 11:03 AM
bump(lets see what happens)/i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif LMAO /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

<center>
http://www.army.fr.pl/foto/mig31.jpg <center>
<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b] HAHAHAHAHAHA <marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b]

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 11:17 AM
Well...I'd say radeon 9800pro. But personally I wouldnt pick either because of budget. Both cards use DirectX 9 which most games still dont use.

To much money I say. No point really. Get a radeon 9700pro...

I'd say thats best deal as is pay half the price and get a 9700pro. If you get that and you got decent other spec. Then you can still play game on full res. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-----------------------------------
Its A known fact that Mighty Demons are here to kill. I know I am
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hj.carruthers/TOPGUN_YG.jpeg

XyZspineZyX
08-31-2003, 11:39 AM
Tomb raider Age of darkness dx 9 (i'm not sure if uses dx9 advanced features)
Commandos 3 : dx 9 (using dx 9 advanced features)

dx 9 games are starting to come in the future we will see much more dx 9 games.

http://d2ol-counter.pietschmann.it/userstats.php?name=asmatic&lg=en&small=0
Fight SARS-D2OL (http://www.d2ol.com)

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 02:40 AM
Davinci.. wrote:
- JRJacobs wrote:
-- I had the same dilemma. I chose GeForce because
-- 9800 = 5th Gen
-- 5900 = 6th Gen
--
-- 9800 $ = 5900 $
--
-- Nvida has a more aggressive drive update schedule.
-
- about everything you said there was inaccurate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Exactly. ATI is releasing new drivers on a 2 week schedule which actually is to tight schedule on me since I am on a 56 kb modem and my drivers works as flawlessly you could demand but still I feel the urge to download every single damn driver the day they are released hoping for that extra bit of performance :P

What´s best is hard to say it depends on what you want. Want high fps and good image quality get the 5900 ULTRA. Best image quality 9800 PRO. Best combination for IQ/FPS would be the 9800 PRO. You can run higher quality aa and anisotropic on the Radeons as well with very little performance hit and higher precision colours which makes much of the difference.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 02:58 AM
Get which has a better looking heatsink, their performance is very much about the same.


http://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/luftwaffe3945/Imagens/hartmann_bf109.jpg


sometimes the look is all that matter, lol

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 03:08 AM
But only if you got a windows kit on your case http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 03:52 AM
Just read the reviews at firingsquad and beyond3d and the nv35 is not pulling dx9 games well at all-it also seems like game devs might revert to dx8.1 code paths for nvidia dx9 cards because the hardware is flawed.

rogo

don't expect HL2 or any other dx9 game to run well on the nv35s.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 03:57 AM
*** dx9, dx is crap, i want open gl, doom3 is open gl, and like the q3 engine it will power all the top games that i buy, there might be the odd dx9 game but open gl is where it counts.

Plus nvidia has far far far better linux support.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 05:18 AM
Yep, nvidia is the man for linux users-but I don't use linux.

DX9 is being used more broadly in games these days than opengl-the trend will continue.

rogo


<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:59 AM
I agree with OPEN GL being better than Directx. There is a reason John Carmack always have preferred Open GL. For nVidias sake and for ATI as well but especially nVidia I guess they give every hope for most games supporting Open GL 2.0 Nvidia has always been a good Open GL performer, just look at Quake 3 scores.

But it´s to early to say the NV35 will be crap for Half Life 2 and DOOM III though. There may be ways around the poor PS 2.0 performance of the NV35 but it will probably make it suffer in term of image quality though.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 10:41 AM
Rogodin wrote:
- Yep, nvidia is the man for linux users-but I don't
- use linux.
-
- DX9 is being used more broadly in games these days
- than opengl-the trend will continue.
-
- rogo
-
I very much doubt that even il2 uses open gl, d3d is jus tagged on, quake 3 engine powers alot of games wolfenstein moh COD etc its open gl, the doom3 engine that will probly power quake 4 and the next round of games will be open gl, by the time these games are out i expect us to see a next gen of gfx cards. The reason y people use d3d is because its easyer than open gl, open gl requires quite a bit more ability but the end result is better.

http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 04:21 PM
Well with the new engine valve has made for HL2 and the testing being done with the nv35 and r350 over at valve (and their comments regarding the poor performance of the nv35 when, which btw can't do centroid shading, decreasing its performance evenmore besides the very lackluster performance in pixel shader 2.0 - this being confirmed with 3dmarks pixel shader tests, tomb raider demo, and HL2 testing) and the fact that The HL2 engine will power (along with the doom3 engine) most of the upcoming games (that I want to play) I'm not going to chance it by purchasing a nv35 or nv40 unless the hardware is shown to be fixed.

A retrospective review of the product offerings from nVidia reveals a somewhat disturbing trend: nVidia typically releases products that lack important features of their respective target DirectX version eras. Certainly, the DirectX feature set in any given revision is quite broad; however one would expect that certain new, innovative features that predominantly define a DirectX revision would be supported. The failure of nVidia to support such features can be noted with the lack of environment-mapped bump mapping support in the Geforce 1/2 series (DirectX 6/7), the lack of pixel shader 1.4 support in the Geforce 4 Ti cards (DirectX 8.1), the lack of any pixel shader suppoprt in the Geforce 4 MX series, and the lack of usable pixel shader 2.0 support (weak performance) in the Geforce FX 5800/5900 series of cards. (I also vaguely remember reading something about displacement mapping support not existing in the Geforce FX series, as well as improper support for multiple render targets in the drivers.) As many have stated before, "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" should be interpreted as "The Way It Should Have Been Played Two Years Ago".

Now, could anyone imagine how many games would support pixel shader 2.0/vertex shader 2.0 if the Geforce FX 5800 had been the dominant card on the market? Would you, as a developer, attempt to write code to utilize a feature set that no card on the market could effectively utilize? (Keep in mind that efforts were supposedly made to augment the performance of the card to that of its current form, due to the threat from the Radeon 9700.)

It is my understanding that in previous years, ATi has had poor driver support (I have never owned an ATi card). Weak performance and poor driver support were the primary reasons that ATi hardware never gained true market presence. ATi has always had a better feature set. Now that these two problems appear to have been resolved...there is no reason to purchase a new nvidia card since it's hardware specifications (feature set) doesn't meet the full dx requirements.


http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/albatron/gffx5900pv/

rogo



<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 04:25 PM
Disregard the "i've never owned an ati card" part-I'm cutting and pasting a bit from my own words on another forum and anothers.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 04:40 PM
Link to QandA at valve's site where the devs answered the question.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7512


Carmack has stated a few times (look it up on google) that the arb2 path (the one intened for both nvidia and ati until it was realized that the nvidia cards would run too slow on it, and carmack had to code another path for the FX 5800/5900 cards) will run much faster on the radeon with better visual quality than the fx running the same path-when the fx runs the fx path it will be fairly close in speed but will have lost some IQ.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 05:09 PM
Rogo, you post like a pogo.

There is this thing called the "edit" button.

And quit spewing your biased information. You bought a Radeon card and now your going to have to live with it. Quit trying to bring everybody else down with you.

5900 or 9800? 5900 of course. You play games right? Stick with Nvidia then nuff said.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 05:15 PM
Logical retort just like always RJB (you proved me completely wrong with your vast knowledge of all hardware and software related to 3dchipsets).j eezzzshshsh

I don't have an edit button on these boards.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 05:19 PM
I have a suggestion for you RJB-go post your drivel over on a non-biased 3d forum. You will find that your blind fanboy attributes are fallacious and not even diehard nvidiots will stand by you.

post at these sites

anandtech.com
beyond3d.com
firingsquad.com
nvnews.net
hardocp.com

your drivel about nvidia cards


and you will have the golden light focused on the truth-and you will be healed.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 05:39 PM
User Options: Edit Message

Look at any one of your posts and you will see this feature above your name.



There are Radeon fanboi's like you Rogodin because Nvidia has skipped a product cycle. (been like 16 months and there is still no sub $200 nvidia card that will blow a GF4 away.

But now at the high end both cards are close in performance. And both cards will cost half as much in 6 months when they are worth buying. Then we will know alot better which is better because they will be tried and tested thoughoughly in the gaming market.

Me, I value most stability. It's true that Nvidia works better with gaming software than ATI. There are tons more patch fixes in games for ATI cards than Nvidia. In the tech support forum for this game more people having problems with their ATI cards. Nvidia is, by default, what game software developers first focus their games to work on. Then they tie up the loose strings with ATI (whom was made famous by their "all-in-wonder" home video editing cards).

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 05:52 PM
Ray,

I'll give you a good deal on my 5900 Ultra. No doubt i'll upgrade to whatever is coming down the line.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:11 PM
I remember at the time of the FX5800's release NVIDIA were bashing on about the superior features of their card... pixel shader 2.0+ rather than the 2.0 support in the 9700, and I assume this difference remains in the 5900 and 9800. Just something that I was wondering about because it seems to have been forgotten.

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:21 PM
I'm looking forward to HL2. I have no doubt my card will run it just fine.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:27 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:

- But now at the high end both cards are close in
- performance.

No, only in dx 8.1, with newer games, the Fx cards performance drops to low levels.

The r9500 non pro runs Tomb raider at the same fps of 5900 ultra at all resolutions with AF (the 9700 doubles the performance of 5900 ultra)

This is not bias, from the beginning of 3dmark03 it has been clear that Fx card cant handle too well shaders 2.0

http://www.beyond3d.com/misc/traod_dx9perf/

New drivers will not help as it seems its a hardware design flaw (8x1 architexture at ati and mixed 8x1/4x2 at nvidia) and some other design failures.

Stability problems are a minor flaw of ati cards.
Buying a dx 9 high end card that has low performance in dx9 is a serius problem.



http://d2ol-counter.pietschmann.it/userstats.php?name=asmatic&lg=en&small=0
Fight SARS-D2OL (http://www.d2ol.com)

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:33 PM
I have both cards .
in 2 identical systems
they are both great.
I have used nvidia for years so the gforce is my fav.
its like chevys and fords ....lol

I hope that dont start something

Chin up ..HUTCH

http://64.122.43.227/contact_us.htm

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 08:37 PM
Buzz, your card will run HL2 fine for sure.

The bad performance of fx cards will happen only in the dx games that use shaders 2.0, if not, the game will run ok.

At the moment i dont know if Hl2 uses dx 8 or 9, but being a game sponsored by ati... i think dx 9 will be the choice

Sadly a lot of developers will produce dx 9 games with shaders compiled with dx 8 targets in order to be playable on nvidia's cards, so both, ati & nvidia owners will loss all the dx 9 effects.

I hope that the phylosophy of doom 3's codepaths is well accepted by most of the developers so each videocard can display the game at full with optimal performance

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XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 09:47 AM
asmatic wrote:
- Buzz, your card will run HL2 fine for sure.
-
- The bad performance of fx cards will happen only in
- the dx games that use shaders 2.0, if not, the game
- will run ok.
-
- At the moment i dont know if Hl2 uses dx 8 or 9, but
- being a game sponsored by ati... i think dx 9 will
- be the choice
-
- Sadly a lot of developers will produce dx 9 games
- with shaders compiled with dx 8 targets in order to
- be playable on nvidia's cards, so both, ati & nvidia
- owners will loss all the dx 9 effects.
-
- I hope that the phylosophy of doom 3's codepaths is
- well accepted by most of the developers so each
- videocard can display the game at full with optimal
- performance

No game engine developers will run different paths for different video cards now as the Radeons are getting as big as nVidia in the video market I am sure. And both HL 2 and DOOM III will definiatly use PS 2.0 on video cards they see can handle it.

And John Carmack has already change the driver path for the NV35 since it couldn´t utilise the PS 2.0 with acceptable performance so it´s just wait and see how much it impacts the image quality.

Of course DOOM 3 and Half Life 2 will be playable with a 5900 ULTRA. As it will probably be on a Geforce 3/4 as well. The game developers won´t put the 5900 ULTRA in the trashcan just because they can´t run fine in the dx 9 paths they opt for they will of course try to get around it with minimal loss of image quality as possible.

Games will definiatly in the near future go on to dx 9 in a large scale.

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 12:10 PM
oeqvist wrote:
- Games will definiatly in the near future go on to dx
- 9 in a large scale.
-

We should hope not, and i doubt it.

Doom3 will use open gl and a lot of todays games are based off the quake 3 engine, which im sure will make the jump to doom3. Open gl 2.0 is also coming, open gl is faster and multiplatform direct x is jsut easyer.

Its no wounder the doom3 and il2 guys use open gl, the minds behind the doom3 engine are the best you will find and they choose open gl.


http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spitwhiners1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 12:24 PM
But as you may have noticed OPEN GL is only big in FPS games thanks to Quake 3 Arena. Unreal games for example are directX and they don´t compete badly you would think? But I generally preferr OPEN GL but they are virtually the same so it doesn´t matter much.

And dx 9 is quite a big improvement over dx 8.1 and Open GL 1.1 so it´s no reason to bash on it just because it´s M$ http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So yes game developers nowadays definiatly has moved on to dx 9 but that doesn´t mean their games aren´t backward compatible for people with older video cards. they just miss out on the dx 9 effects. The same will be for Open GL paths.

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 01:09 PM
Liquid Nitrogen cooled Cray Millenium IVxp3
5.5 Gigabytes FlipScram V-RAM
16 Terabyte, 20krpm SSCSI "Gator" Superdrive with 20 Gigabyte buffer and onboard Dual Pentium 4 controllers
Lightwave Twin Turbo Solar-Flare Video card with 1 Gig fast write Asynchronus Gel Ram and on board 220W power supply
Audiospike "Carnegie" Sound card with VorpelSpace surround speakers and two SubVERT Atomic sub-woofers
Phillips 39' Flat Panel Crystal Display

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 01:13 PM
VMF513_Wolf wrote:

P4 2.8 GHZ /800fbs
- 512mb ddr ram PC3200
- Geforce 4 Ti 4200 with 128 mb.

Why bother to buy new stuff to this high-end system?

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 02:08 PM
Lithium1970 wrote:
- VMF513_Wolf wrote:
-
- P4 2.8 GHZ /800fbs
-- 512mb ddr ram PC3200
-- Geforce 4 Ti 4200 with 128 mb.
-
- Why bother to buy new stuff to this high-end system?

To get a high end video card to go with his high end system perhaps? His bottleneck is definiatly his video card hampering the hole systems performance in graphic intensive applications.

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 02:18 PM
helltoupee, opengl games are using shaders too (an example: Fb uses shaders to render the "excellent" water, and it works only in opengl mode)

Opengl 2.0 will come with is own high level shading language, and this language will be compiled to shader opcodes 2.0 , 1.4 ... etc

It doesnt matter if the game will use ogl or d3d, the shaders are availiable in both apis.

If doom3 uses shaders 2.0 will run slow eith nvidia no matter if it is opengl or direct3d

HellToupee wrote:
-
- oeqvist wrote:
-- Games will definiatly in the near future go on to dx
-- 9 in a large scale.
--
-
- We should hope not, and i doubt it.
-
- Doom3 will use open gl and a lot of todays games are
- based off the quake 3 engine, which im sure will
- make the jump to doom3. Open gl 2.0 is also coming,
- open gl is faster and multiplatform direct x is jsut
- easyer.
-
- Its no wounder the doom3 and il2 guys use open gl,
- the minds behind the doom3 engine are the best you
- will find and they choose open gl.
-
-
-
<img
- src="http://lamppost.mine.nu/ahclan/files/sigs/spi
- twhiners1.jpg">
-









Message Edited on 09/02/03 03:18PM by asmatic

Message Edited on 09/02/0303:21PM by asmatic

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 03:49 PM
My intention wasn't to rain on anybodys purchase but to let you guys know what's going on over at beyond3d and valve-and that most devs are coming to the conclusion (on the boards and valve q&a) that the fx cards have their dx9 feature set too watered down to compete well (aquanox 3 demo is supposedly running slower too) with even the r300 series cards.

I am in the market for a new card as well-and I want HL2 to look and play as well as possible with my new card (and from the info I'm reading it's becoming increasinly likely that HL2 is NOT going to run nearly as well or look as good as r3xx let alon r4xx-so I've suspended my decision until more results are out and the prices drop a bit.

Doom 3 is another ball of wax where Carmack has said the arb2 patch is the best path to run the game on but he has had to make the new fx path because nvidia's poor performance running the arb2 codepath.

Many other questions and I suggest all of you that are deciding go to beyond3d and read the review and the feedback.

rogo



<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 09:31 PM
Well the best advice is wait and see until it actually arrives until choosing your video card. Neither Half Life 2 or DOOM III will probably be out before Christmas and much will happen before then.

The RV 360 will definiatly be out and probably some new video card from nVidia as well. Just watch out for optimized drivers for those specific games since the video card developers know how much these games means when buying a new video card considering how many that is waiting for these überhyped games to arrive.

So we don´t get this xxx video card is 20 % faster in that and that benchmark all over again just to later discover what the real performance of the video card are... Me for sure if I will get a new video card by then (which I doubt saving my money for the R400 or ev. NV50) I will watch the games with my own eyes. Never thrusting benchmarks for a second. Benchmarks used to mean something in the old days but now when xxx card 8x is 4x aa and xxx card 16x aniso is 8x aniso it isn´t possible anymore.

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 04:43 AM
More developments from valve-HL2 is using extensive pixel shader 2.0 ops and will not run well on a 5900U-a 9600PRO will run the game almost twice as fast.

www.valvefaq.com (http://www.valvefaq.com)

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 04:50 AM
Doesn't matter to me. By the time HL2 comes out. My 5900 will be long gone.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 05:11 AM
NV40 baby

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 05:12 AM
Buzz can i have your job?

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 05:21 AM
Jobs are in my past Ivan. I keep telling you guys. I'm retired../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 05:25 AM
The black monk (chekov) is on his way buzz.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 05:48 AM
NV50 for me eventually. Don´t think the NV40 will hack it.

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 05:52 AM
I'm thinking the same thing oq but I would like to be a bit optimistic.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 06:01 AM
You guys tell me when a card comes out that you like. Then I won't have to argue anymore.

I'm not loyal to any company. I use the card that's the best at the moment.

That's why i'm using the 5900 now../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg



Message Edited on 09/02/0310:02PM by BuzzU

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 06:04 AM
I'll let you know buzz-I'm a tenderhearted individual (acording to william james/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 06:12 AM
Sitck with the card you have and use the $500 to take your best gal away for the weekend! Trust me you will have more enjoyment for the money that way

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 06:17 AM
buzz is retired, he doesn't have to worry about Bang for the buck /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9infinite.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Message Edited on 09/02/0310:18PM by Rogodin

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 05:13 PM
It´s still pretty amazing though what a chip the R300 is. nVidia must bang their heads in the wall after several tries not able to topple it in term of engineering marvel http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If things continue this way it will definiatly hit the 1st place as most revolutionary video card chipset ever.

And now in interviews even the Valve guys say that for top performance you need an ATI video card but then Half Life 2 is very heavy on PS 2.0 usage.

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 06:12 PM
Except we're all playing FB right now.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 06:18 PM
Just saw 5900 Ultra at the store... $599.99 O U C H!!


Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 07:55 PM
Okay, I have to confess... I am not a flight sim hardcore gamer. Actually IL 2 is the first flight sim to actually caught me. Well the first was EECH but that is totally different from IL 2 and it caught me very well indeed. So much I bought FB and possible even will get LOMAC.

And ATI is still the king for IL 2 too no doubt http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Well you doubt it I don´t LOL

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 09:14 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 09:29 PM
http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030714/vga_card_guide-13.html

Check that out.

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Wars Virtual War
Forum: http://fogwar.luftwaffe.net/forums/index.php
Website: http://forgottenwars.dyndns.org
Visit 609IAP at http://takeoff.to/609IAP

http://www.leeboats.com/609/sig/609_recon3.jpg

Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 09:35 PM
Recon

I've seen that before but it doesn't jive with real review sites results from beyond3d.com, extremetech.com, and firingsquad.com.

Plus

Nvidia disabled TrilinearAF in their drivers on UT2003-so what your seeing is the ati cards running 128tap triliear 8xAF and the FX cards running 64tap bilinear 8xAF.

Much lower IQ but higher performance and the even with their cheat the 9800 is still only 11fps and 5 fps behind the 5900U.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9best%7E0.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 09:52 PM
Blah blah blah.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 09:53 PM
Okay I waded through all of beyond3ds benchmarks with the 5900U and the 9800PRO (older review with cat 3.4s) and tried to find the closest approximation of juxtaposition of the cards.

Here's the first two links

Radeon 9800PRO Full detail-8xqualityaf, 4xAA

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/9800_256/index.php?p=15

Score of 64fps at a resolution of 1024x768



Nvidia Geforce FX 5900U Full detail-8xquality AF, 4xSAA (equivalent to the quaily of ati's 4xaa)

http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/albatron/gffx5900pv/index.php?p=7

Score of 41fps at a resolution of 1024x768

The only thing I couldn't quite figure out was if beyond3d used their own timedemo on the raddy bench (I believe they did with the aa and af benchies).

I'll post links to the non aa af scores in a bit.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9best%7E0.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 10:02 PM
"blah blah blah"

THat's what happens when you are presented with the truth.

My score was wrong On the 5900U since the score for the 9800 was with 8xperformance-the 5900U scores---

45fps-20fps slower (with cheating drivers) than the 9800PRO256 with cat 3.4s.

"especially the section pertaining to the way texture filtering is performed in UT2003 (and apparently only in UT2003) by the 44.03 drivers. The 45.23 drivers exhibit the same behaviour, never rendering trilinear filtering as we understand it and/or require it, neither through driver control panel settings nor in-game texture filtering settings"

The REverand


Rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9best%7E0.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 10:10 PM
Why do the ATI fanboys try so hard to convince us they have the best card?

You don't need to make any excuses that you picked the wrong card. You'll do better next time./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

25th_Buzz
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 10:25 PM
I'm not a ati fanboy-I'm a pragmatist and it isn't pragmatic to purchase a fx5900U unless you like to burn money.

it's that simple

Rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9best%7E0.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 10:28 PM
My intention isn't to degrade the value of the 5900U to you personally buzz-it's just not cutting the mustard with hardcore gamers and game devs.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9best%7E0.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 10:40 PM
Buzz vs Rogodin in Perfect mode... tonight @VFC*HOST /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 11:34 PM
BuzzU wrote:
- Why do the ATI fanboys try so hard to convince us
- they have the best card?

Someone asked for the best card...


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-03-2003, 11:35 PM
Someone lock this thread. It's like a magnet.

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 02:49 AM
Precious metal is more the jewel.

rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/LAGIF-small.gif>

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/9best%7E0.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 12:58 PM
Have you seen the latest Halo benchmarks? And Halo is a nvidia optimized game you would think since it´s a xbox game as we all know. And the good thing it so new nVidia hasn´t had time to optimize their drivers for it, neither has ATI if they wanted to.

http://www.gamersdepot.com/hardware/video_cards/mobile/dx9_titans/002.htm

If I plan to play dx 9 games with a FX card I would definiatly wait.

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 02:54 PM
FX5600 with leaked drivers? Who cares?

25th_Buzz
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<center>
http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/buzz.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 06:16 PM
Because the FX 5600 is using very much the same structure as the 5900 ULTRA for example. Got the exactly same dx 9 features like PS 2.0 and all the rest. and a Geforce FX 5600 isn´t running third the speed of a 9600 in dx 8 benchmarks is it??

This is just more proof of nVidias poor ps 2.0 performance which is crucial for games like Half Life 2 and DOOM 3 and just about all upcoming dx 9 games.

Why that is so important? If you buy a 500$ dx 9 videocard you expect to get top performance in dx 9 games don´t you?

Sure it´s a beta build of HALO but it got it´s pro and cons. No driver optimizations but of course it may contain bugs. This however goes right in hand what other PS benchies has already showned in both synthetic benchmarks and now the new dx 9 games.

People considering getting a new video card should have knowledge of this stuff if they not want to feel screwed when the dx 9 games start rolling in.

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 06:25 PM
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks2.jpg</p>


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Scott

XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 06:58 PM
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XyZspineZyX
09-04-2003, 08:58 PM
We care because we don't want to be dupped.

rogo

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"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

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