PDA

View Full Version : kool f22 vid



fordfan25
05-27-2007, 02:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW2Hvu_mUdU&mode=related&search=

and the cobra http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrBx6G2O6A4&mode=related&search=

Jasko76
05-27-2007, 04:04 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Woah, I had no idea it can fly like THIS! It's amazing! It almost defies the laws of gravity. So beautiful and controlled, like sky ballet. Once everything else is sorted, there will be no doubt who is the master of the skies. Period.

Congratulations on an outstanding machine, US! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

fordfan25
05-27-2007, 11:49 PM
yea i love the way it can just hang in the air like that. reminds me of a Oleg made 109 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Klemm.co
05-28-2007, 04:38 AM
I'm sure you mean La-5FN. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

badatflyski
05-28-2007, 06:07 AM
slow fat duck, no lateral thrust-vectoring,can't hold with the Su35/37 in maneuvrability. still nice to see it can maneuvring(even it's slow) and not only flying in straight line http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Ps: Vid already posted http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3811044065

Yellonet
05-28-2007, 06:14 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW2Hvu_mUdU&mode=related&search=
Nothing Gripen can't handle http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jasko76
05-28-2007, 12:55 PM
Yeah, right!

Both Gripen and especially that crappy Sukhoi would be dead long before they could get close enough to observe the F-22 perform these maneuvers. My point being is - BVR combat. Granted, all modern fighters are extemely maneuverable, courtesy of unstable design mated with digital FBW-systems. But none of them have the same ability to kill at long distance like the F-22 has/will have. And that's the only thing that really matters in today's aerial combat.

Xiolablu3
05-28-2007, 01:05 PM
Nice video, but the Su27 was doing those things and even more crazy quite a long time ago.


There is a video on youtube with a an Su27 manouvring with red smoke on, but I cant find it now..

Does anyone have a link?

tigertalon
05-28-2007, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Jasko76:
especially that crappy Sukhoi

Burn the heretic!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


Originally posted by Jasko76:
But none of them have the same ability to kill at long distance like the F-22 has/will have. And that's the only thing that really matters in today's aerial combat.

They were saying exactly the same thing in the 60s about F-4 PhantomII. They even didn't have cannon installed on that bird coz they expected it to kill everything with sparrows so far away that even sidewinders in most cases wouldn't be needed.

Xiolablu3
05-28-2007, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Jasko76:
Yeah, right!

Both Gripen and especially that crappy Sukhoi would be dead long before they could get close enough to observe the F-22 perform these maneuvers. My point being is - BVR combat. Granted, all modern fighters are extemely maneuverable, courtesy of unstable design mated with digital FBW-systems. But none of them have the same ability to kill at long distance like the F-22 has/will have. And that's the only thing that really matters in today's aerial combat.


Are you sure about htis?

I would haev thought that all modern fighters would have long range kill capability, and that doesnt depend on the plane, that depends on the rader and the missile.

F22 sure is a cool plane, but I wouldnt be surprised if China or Russia is right now developing a radar capable of taking it out. Technological gaps like the 'stealth' on an F22 dont tend to stay effective for very long.

I believe other nations havent bothered with stealth technology because once countered, thats it - all that money spent has become lost. Its a great benefit to have - for as long as it lasts. And if that big war doesnt come before a radar/missileis developed to counter stealth technology, then all that money has been spent for nothing.

I could be wrong tho. Just my thoughts.

waffen-79
05-28-2007, 01:11 PM
Superb Aircraft that F-22

but I still like the most

the Su-27(-35) and the Mig-29(with vectorial thrust)

VW-IceFire
05-28-2007, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jasko76:
Yeah, right!

Both Gripen and especially that crappy Sukhoi would be dead long before they could get close enough to observe the F-22 perform these maneuvers. My point being is - BVR combat. Granted, all modern fighters are extemely maneuverable, courtesy of unstable design mated with digital FBW-systems. But none of them have the same ability to kill at long distance like the F-22 has/will have. And that's the only thing that really matters in today's aerial combat.


Are you sure about htis?

I would haev thought that all modern fighters would have long range kill capability, and that doesnt depend on the plane, that depends on the rader and the missile.

F22 sure is a cool plane, but I wouldnt be surprised if China or Russia is right now developing a radar capable of taking it out. Technological gaps like the 'stealth' on an F22 dont tend to stay effective for very long.

I believe other nations havent bothered with stealth technology because once countered, thats it - all that money spent has become lost. Its a great benefit to have - for as long as it lasts. And if that big war doesnt come before a radar/missileis developed to counter stealth technology, then all that money has been spent for nothing.

I could be wrong tho. Just my thoughts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bingo and right on the money. All sorts of countermeasures to stealth are being worked on. Lots and lots of people have the modern day air combat in their mind as being something where everyone lines up at long range, tosses missiles at each other, and the F-22 wins because nobody can "see it" (on radar) and thats more or less true if we're talking about a F-15 with a slightly older radar type and that sort of thing. Even us air combat aficionados should know that its not quite that simple...all sorts of factors contribute for the need to close with the enemy and then engage them.

Thats why the F-22 isn't just a stealthy missile boat. The thrust vectoring engines and its design allow it to do some pretty ridiculous high alpha moves that we've so far only seen from Russian planes. Although the Russians were either pushing their planes harder than this demonstration F-22 or the F-22 isn't quite as good in the air show circuit. I don't really know.

Bottom line...there are radars and other scanning systems being worked on that have the capability of defeating stealth that you can read about in the Defense Industry reports that get put out every so often. Many of the industrialized countries have or are working on prototypes for this stuff. Not something thats front line right now but the F-22 is here to stay and in 20 years it will probably not be as super as it is on paper right now. Not to say that stealth is pointless or useless...it raises the bar considerably on what is needed to find, track, lock, and successfully engage a stealthy plane.

Two of the biggest issues I think the F-22 in the near future is that its BVR is actually not quite as good as what the Typhoon is supposed to be with the Meteor missile and neither are as good as the Russians are right now in the medium to long range missiles. Although even thats all on paper because none of these missiles (Russians, European, or American) have been tested in combat. There is supposed to be a AIM-120 derivative being developed for use with the F-22 that should increase its BVR capability significantly. At the moment its just good and most of the BVR superiority is in radar stealthiness and its own very good radar (which is also kinda stealthy) plus the speed with which it can close with an enemy is unparalleled for the moment (proven supercruise capability).

No doubt about it...the F-22 is the aircraft to beat in the modern day fighter combat scene (simulations put it at 10:1 in favour of the F-22 versus the F-15). But its not perfect and there will always be countermeasures. Its not necessarily unbeatable. Although if it never has to fight a capable foe then it certainly will be...the same goes for the F-15 which has I think now has a record of 0 losses to 105 confirmed kills.

Jasko76
05-28-2007, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by tigertalon:

Burn the heretic!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


Why? Because I think Russian technology is inferior to Western stuff?


They were saying exactly the same thing in the 60s about F-4 PhantomII. They even didn't have cannon installed on that bird coz they expected it to kill everything with sparrows so far away that even sidewinders in most cases wouldn't be needed.

They sure did. But that was in the 1960s, and this is 2000+. Things where, how should I put it, immature, back in those days and too much was expected from the new technology. But I can assure you, AAMs have been working just fine at least since the 1980s.

Jasko76
05-28-2007, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jasko76:
Yeah, right!

Both Gripen and especially that crappy Sukhoi would be dead long before they could get close enough to observe the F-22 perform these maneuvers. My point being is - BVR combat. Granted, all modern fighters are extemely maneuverable, courtesy of unstable design mated with digital FBW-systems. But none of them have the same ability to kill at long distance like the F-22 has/will have. And that's the only thing that really matters in today's aerial combat.


Are you sure about htis?

I would haev thought that all modern fighters would have long range kill capability, and that doesnt depend on the plane, that depends on the rader and the missile.

F22 sure is a cool plane, but I wouldnt be surprised if China or Russia is right now developing a radar capable of taking it out. Technological gaps like the 'stealth' on an F22 dont tend to stay effective for very long.

I believe other nations havent bothered with stealth technology because once countered, thats it - all that money spent has become lost. Its a great benefit to have - for as long as it lasts. And if that big war doesnt come before a radar/missileis developed to counter stealth technology, then all that money has been spent for nothing.

I could be wrong tho. Just my thoughts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the stealthy part of the F-22 is not what I had in mind when I wrote the first comment. What really impresses me is the combination of great maneuverability and fantastic sensor suite. I'm not saying the others won't be able to see the F-22, unless it carries a Klingon cloaking device http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif only that the F-22 will see them first and accordingly will be able to take appropriate action. Russians may be able to throw their planes around like lunatics, but that sort of flying has little value in modern air-air combat. Take the F-15 for instance. They have destroyed at least 50 adversaries, most of them with Sparrows and none as far as I know with cannon fire. They even knocked down a couple of Serbian MiG-29s - how come the MiGs didn't annihilate the F-15s through their advanced super-duper maneuverability? Because such antics belong to an airshow alone.

Ok, this sounds like rant, but the future belongs to the guy with the longest stick - in this case the F-22 pilot is that guy.

BoCfuss
05-28-2007, 05:41 PM
Current heat seekers have made all the fancy flying pointless and useless. I know of no aircraft that can easily defeat the F-15(AESA, AWACS, other USAF support) in a high speed Long range fight, let alone the F-22. It is far and away the best air to air platform out there.

That being said, it is pointless, expensive, and currently useless, unless, China/Russia are looking to start something, which they are not. Especially since China's economy is based on U.S. consumers. However I have to also go with history here, the exact same things were said about the F-15 when it came into service in the 70's. The F-15 served very well as a part of the USAF. The USAF is not a one trick pony, and you will never see a fair fight going against it. No one air force is as capable.

Too many people playing LOMAC, one on one fighting was and will always be rare.

VW-IceFire
05-28-2007, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by Jasko76:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:

Burn the heretic!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


Why? Because I think Russian technology is inferior to Western stuff?


They were saying exactly the same thing in the 60s about F-4 PhantomII. They even didn't have cannon installed on that bird coz they expected it to kill everything with sparrows so far away that even sidewinders in most cases wouldn't be needed.

They sure did. But that was in the 1960s, and this is 2000+. Things where, how should I put it, immature, back in those days and too much was expected from the new technology. But I can assure you, AAMs have been working just fine at least since the 1980s. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They still have something like a 50-60 percentage kill rate. Its significantly better than Vietnam and if Phantoms were firing AMRAAM's in Vietnam the PK would probably be near 90% but with all of the jamming and modern countermeasures and so forth its still a rough ride for the medium range missile according to most literature.

There's definitely a need for short range combat or there wouldn't be the move towards thrust vectored short range missiles. AIM-9X, ASRAAM and R-73 "Archer" are all really impressive in the short range.

No doubt the issues with identifying a friend from foe (which seemingly still persist) still means that closing up with the enemy prior to firing a shot is still required.