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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 12:35 AM
...the open radiator (with an open radiator air outlet shutter) actually made the plane go faster, not slower. The Mustang's radiator set-up, and the position of the outlet, actually created thrust.

So no complaining that it doesn't slow down or goes a little faster with radiator open than when it's closed, ok? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Regards,

SkyChimp

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Message Edited on 11/04/0303:42AM by SkyChimp

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 12:35 AM
...the open radiator (with an open radiator air outlet shutter) actually made the plane go faster, not slower. The Mustang's radiator set-up, and the position of the outlet, actually created thrust.

So no complaining that it doesn't slow down or goes a little faster with radiator open than when it's closed, ok? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Regards,

SkyChimp

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Message Edited on 11/04/0303:42AM by SkyChimp

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 12:36 AM
reality and FB are too different things shychimp http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Im just wondering if you talked to oleg about it , game engine cannot support it probally

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 12:37 AM
but so amny will feel the urge to whine when she doesnt turn and burn on the deck like a yak or zeke......

adlabs6
11-04-2003, 12:39 AM
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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 12:43 AM
i "bet" itll be preaty close. not that i would know or anythinghttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 12:45 AM
I just saying. I've seen some people at some sites complain that the Mustang doesn't slow down with the radiator open. I haven't tested it, well, because the patch isn't out. All I'm saying is that IF it doesn't slow down, it shouldn't.

Funny, I haven't seen anyone complain it doesn't handle well. Maybe it is modelled correctly. Hmmm, the mind boggles.

BTW, I predict at least five pages in this thread, many from Luftwaffe fans who will come to "set the record" straight about how overrated the Mustang was.


Regards,

SkyChimp

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Message Edited on 11/04/0302:46AM by SkyChimp

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 12:57 AM
interesting - did not know that - thanks Skychimp!

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 01:00 AM
Yep,extended,the open radiator actually added about 30mph,didn't it?

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 01:01 AM
necrobaron wrote:
- Yep,extended,the open radiator actually added about
- 30mph,didn't it?


I don't think it added that much, but I've seen 10 mph referenced.





Regards,

SkyChimp

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 01:05 AM
SkyChimp wrote:I don't think it added that much, but I've seen 10 mph referenced.

Oh,okay. Wish I could find where I read that.....

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 01:15 AM
My statement isn't made to suggest it should add anything to the speed, just that it shouldn't slow it down.

Regards,

SkyChimp

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adlabs6
11-04-2003, 01:20 AM
Wow... 10mph? Was it safe to open the radiators during taxi?

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 01:20 AM
Then what will be your radiator setting in cruise or dogfight? Open all the way? Give more info plz. I never thought about the radiator of pony. Thanks. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 01:22 AM
adlabs6 wrote:
- Wow... 10mph? Was it safe to open the radiators
- during taxi?

I don't have a specific speed increase. Again, my point is that it should not decrease speed any.

Regards,

SkyChimp

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 01:34 AM
TooCooL34 wrote:
- Then what will be your radiator setting in cruise or
- dogfight? Open all the way? Give more info plz. I
- never thought about the radiator of pony. Thanks.


I'm not sure how Oleg modelled the radiator outlet shutter, but it should be automatic. If the thing is manual in the game and you have to open it yourself, then you should see no speed reduction when you do.

In the real thing, there was a four-position switch in the cockpit with "auto", "open", "closed" and "off" settings. "Auto" was the normal setting and coolant temperature governed the flap position.

In the context of FB, assuming that an open radiator DOES NOT slow the plane down, I see no problem leaving it open all the time.

Regards,

SkyChimp

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Message Edited on 11/04/0303:48AM by SkyChimp

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 01:52 AM
The increase in speed, or conversely the lack of loss of speed with rad open is due to the design of the radiator exit "tunnel". When the cold inlet air passes over the radiator it expands due to temperatue increase. However, the area behind the radiator is smaller than thearea in front of it so a positive pressure is created, thus creating thrust. (In theory). How much gain ws attained has always been up for debate, but what cannot be debated is that the P51's radiator design was by far the best of any liquid cooled aircraft of WW2.

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:02 AM
I know I probably shouldn't be saying anything, but I just tested it in the beta patch and i lost 20km/h when I opened the radiator. So, if Skychimp is right then it is modeled incorrectly, but then that might be changed before the final patch.

Also, when I first tested it I was really suprised at the speed, it can do 500km/h (or 310mph) in level flight, at 1000m. Is that too fast?

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Message Edited on 11/03/0308:05PM by Vgamer_248th

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:10 AM
Vgamer_248th wrote:
- I know I probably shouldn't be saying anything, but
- I just tested it in the beta patch and i lost 20km/h
- when I opened the radiator. So, if Skychimp is right
- then it is modeled incorrectly, but then that might
- be changed before the final patch.
-
- Also, when I first tested it I was really suprised
- at the speed, it can do 500km/h (or 310mph) in level
- flight, at 1000m. Is that too fast?
-
- 248th_Vgamer
- C/O IL-2 Forgotten Battles Division
- 248th VFS


-GASP!- No way.

Well, I think Oleg ought to know about this. I'll post a thread in ORR.

Regards,

SkyChimp

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Message Edited on 11/04/0304:23AM by SkyChimp

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:10 AM
Vgamer_248th wrote:
-.
-
- Also, when I first tested it I was really suprised
- at the speed, it can do 500km/h (or 310mph) in level
- flight, at 1000m. Is that too fast?


No, the max sea level speed of the P51D is just over 350mph true airspeed.

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 04:26 AM
lol, so it acted like a small jet engine, kind of cool.

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 04:47 AM
Beta results of P-51D

settings\speed(110%)
--------------------
closed.....760km/h
2............738km/h
4............711km/h
6............693km/h
8............676km/h
open.......660km/h


Maybe the radiator part of the P-51D isn't optimized or something, yet.

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 04:58 AM
The Mustang should attain its top speed at around 25,000 feet. That top speed should be 437 mph. In order to do this, the radiator air exit shutter should be open. This is how the Mustang achieved its speeds according to Lee Atwood, NAA engineer. If the shutter is closed, then the thrust effect is not there.

Regards,

SkyChimp

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T_O_A_D
11-04-2003, 04:59 AM
kweassa wrote:
-
- Beta results of P-51D
-
-
- settings\speed(110%)
---------------------
- closed.....760km/h
- 2............738km/h
- 4............711km/h
- 6............693km/h
- 8............676km/h
- open.......660km/h
-
-
- Maybe the radiator part of the P-51D isn't
- optimized or something, yet.
-
-
All I know is you can have it open and run 110% all day and close it when you need the xtra spead for just a bit or it will overheat.

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 06:03 AM
Hi,
Now P-51 pilot will have a big smile http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif in 1.2

I try P-51 here is easy hand on batter then in EAW

just one thing that make me surprise , that is climb rate

compare to other plane like LA-7, 109k4


How long for max climb to 6,000 meter in real P-51 ? (start from take off) ?


and Thaks Oleg and teams for hard work for us.
S!

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 06:22 AM
currently the P-51 handles, climbs, turns, and shoots better than average. the 6 50s are about twice as strong as the old p47 guns. yes with 2 less guns...50s are now taking down fws and doras and LAs easily. same as in real life. most planes seem a little easier to shoot down with accurate fire. the mustang has fantastic energy retention. it gains much speed in shallow dives and zooms great too. i couldnt get it to disintigrate in high speed dives. it seems to do every thing very well.

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 06:59 AM
Huck said something in another thread in ORR that makes me think that I haven't made my self clear in this thread.

When I was using the word "open" in this thread, I didn't mean open all the way. What's apparent is that the Mustang achieved it's top speed with the radiator exit flap open "to some degree", but not necessarily all the way. An article I found written by a Mustang designer says the exit door had to be closed --enough-- to create a substantial back pressure. Just what enough is is unclear to me. Was it half way closed? I don't know. But one thing I am sure of, it probably was not "closed" all the way, otherwise there is no cooling effect and no compensation for drag.

My issue here is that in FB when you are flying at max level speed, opening the radiator at all will reduce speed. In fact in real life, the radiator had to already be open to some degree to achieve that top speed.

Small issue.

Regards,

SkyChimp

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 07:19 AM
For the Stang..
You must have the radiator open always and coolant turned on, or you will cook the engine...
This is from the real deal so what the game supports I do not knwo..I was not invited to play this round....lol

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 08:07 AM
As a 190 driver I would have the right to complain. We shouldn't be suffering from radiator drag NEARLY as bad as we do. I don't know about the Mustang so no comment from me. My biggest wish for the patch would be to eliminate the radiator drag of the 190. If this is the case with the P-51 as well, I hope it is modelled. Maybe FB's game engine can't support it, who knows. Would be nice if they were both correct.

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 09:41 AM
Yes the Mustang Radiator!
I have already seen some guys get into trouble real quick caught in Enemy flak down low.

Very realistic though, it was their weak spot, very prone to flak damage and small arms AA fire.

S!

XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 09:59 AM
this new patch if like the beta is going to be the best patch yet. k4 rocks again. stang just plain rocks. jap planes are fun..... its all coming together in this patch.

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 10:05 AM
I would rather have that goofy radiator mechanism be fixed./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 10:49 AM
Interesting reading. At normal day temperatures at sea level, the thrust effect would be small, if anything meaningful. (Instead of "thrust effect", it's better to say "drag reduce") The system works mainly by the difference in temp between the incoming air and the heat transfered to it by the radiator. This means you won't get practically any benefit on the ground, climbing at slow speed or at low speeds in general. Best results will be cold temperatures, either at sea level or altitude, and the plane moving fast, with the radiator as hot as possible.

Good hunting,
Cajun76

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 01:34 PM
http://www.icon.co.za/~pauljnr/radiator.jpg


A visual for the P-51's radiator ducting.


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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:31 PM
Cajun76 wrote:
- Interesting reading. At normal day temperatures at
- sea level, the thrust effect would be small, if
- anything meaningful. (Instead of "thrust effect",
- it's better to say "drag reduce") The system works
- mainly by the difference in temp between the
- incoming air and the heat transfered to it by the
- radiator. This means you won't get practically any
- benefit on the ground, climbing at slow speed or at
- low speeds in general. Best results will be cold
- temperatures, either at sea level or altitude, and
- the plane moving fast, with the radiator as hot as
- possible.
-
- Good hunting,
- Cajun76
-
- "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to
- entertain a thought without accepting it."
--Aristotle
-

The air-stream must be moving quickly (the plane has to be above ~300mph) before the Meredith Effect comes into play. Air at that speed is heated as it is compressed into the cooling intake duct.

Ambient air temp wont change much.

How much recovered power you get depends on:

1. Airstream speed (or plane speed)
2. Opening of duct

Therefore: Best speed will be achieved in automatic mode, while opening/closing the flap will "detune" the system and make it less efficient.

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 02:48 PM
BaldieJr wrote:
-
-
- The air-stream must be moving quickly (the plane has
- to be above ~300mph) before the Meredith Effect
- comes into play. Air at that speed is heated as it
- is compressed into the cooling intake duct.
-
-

The air flow expands in the 'cooling intake duct'. The intake's surface area is much less than the radiator face's area.


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Tully__
11-04-2003, 03:18 PM
Ubi & 1C:Maddox have valid reasons for running the beta test program as a closed test. For the same reasons, discussion of leaked versions of the beta patch are discouraged on Ubi's forums. Consequently this is locked.

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