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View Full Version : Combo of cannon and mg's for a kill?



EctoGamma
07-26-2007, 06:54 AM
Hi All,

Wanted to ask what combo of cannons ans mg's you use to make a kill? I belive in WW2 most piolts used there mg's to "bore sight" the e/a and then cannons to make the kill. This tatic does not work for me in IL2. A soon as the first few round strike the e/a it starts to dodge my fire making a hit with cannon, by no means impossible, but much harder.

I tend to fire everything I have a the e/a at once, I give a 1sec burst when flying somthing like a 190 a p51 needs a longer burst. This improves the chances of killing the e/a with the first shot. If I miss, as often happens, I still fire 1sec burst in the dogfight. The only time I ever use mg's only is if the e/a is in a flat wide turn.

Whats your system?

EctoGamma
07-26-2007, 06:54 AM
Hi All,

Wanted to ask what combo of cannons ans mg's you use to make a kill? I belive in WW2 most piolts used there mg's to "bore sight" the e/a and then cannons to make the kill. This tatic does not work for me in IL2. A soon as the first few round strike the e/a it starts to dodge my fire making a hit with cannon, by no means impossible, but much harder.

I tend to fire everything I have a the e/a at once, I give a 1sec burst when flying somthing like a 190 a p51 needs a longer burst. This improves the chances of killing the e/a with the first shot. If I miss, as often happens, I still fire 1sec burst in the dogfight. The only time I ever use mg's only is if the e/a is in a flat wide turn.

Whats your system?

DmdSeeker
07-26-2007, 07:00 AM
I use MG's to get a fleeing enemy to turn. Most people panic if you can ping them even with small caliber stuff and start dodging and weaving, eneabling you to catch up.

Then when I've caught 'em; I give 'em every thing I've got.

And usually miss http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BBB_Hyperion
07-26-2007, 07:09 AM
Good flying didn't kill anyone yet. Take your time to set convergences right and learn deflection shooting. Depending on your planeype u should use the biggest guns first when you shot first and there is a high chance that you hit . IF you are not able to shot or target is aware of your presence use small smgs to fire in its flightpath maybe it starts evasive actions and you can get closer. Depending on your ammo load wasting ammo might be an option so take a chance and spray and pray a little sometimes it works. The burst time for p51 is more than 2 s to be effective for 190 it is under 1s .

SeaFireLIV
07-26-2007, 07:16 AM
I tend to pick at them with the MGs if just out of range or just within range, waiting until I know I`ve got a hit before using cannons. Sometimes I do tend to wait too long looking for the sure kill...

tomtheyak
07-26-2007, 07:26 AM
Personally, if he's in range and in the gunsight he gets everything... there's no point in being selective IMO; you never know when or if you're gonna get another shot oppportunity so why be picky? Steel on target is what counts, and it should be all or nothing.

DmdSeekers point of using MGs to get a long range target to slow down is a good point tho; half the time it gets results!

na85
07-26-2007, 07:50 AM
In the fw190 and similar planes, I tend to fire all my weapons at once, waiting until he gets in range before firing. In the 109 I do the same unless we're both turning, in which case I try to pepper the enemy's wings with my light MG's since I don't mind wasting that ammo. Often times even a tiny hit to the wings will transform a tight turn into a stall or a spin.

HotelBushranger
07-26-2007, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Good flying didn't kill anyone yet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Au contraire:

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/puhak/puhak.htm

general_kalle
07-26-2007, 09:26 AM
for me it highly depends on situation, my own plane and my target

i have a few things i follow,

when in planes with light machine guns and cannons i usually use the machine gun to make em turn so i can get closer and pick on them and then when i got the right shot i make a short burst of cannons,

if i have 50's i just fire away as soon as i think i have a chance of hitting,
you have so much ammo on those US planes anyway,

if i haved heavy cannons like the Hispano 20mm or a mk108 i sometimes try to sneak up on them and put in a few well placed rounds at distance,


if you have problems the best thing to do is to get really close so you are sure of a hit and then just fire away with evrything

usually works for me

F16_Neo
07-26-2007, 10:00 AM
I tend to use light MG only to make ppl maneovre, and use everything when I get within range.
Exception:
If I manage to sneak up on someones' 6, I have noticed that if I use MG + Cannon, the foe seems to realise he is under attack a split second sooner, therefore I sometime turn off MG on those sneakups (if cannon is adequate).
But I will have to experiment a bit more to be sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

jimDG
07-26-2007, 12:00 PM
MGs are only useful in two cases
- to get someone to turn, at extreme ranges (500m and more)
- at 45-60 deg angle shots - in this case the whole enemy a/c is exposed to the fire and there is a good chance of a pilot kill or controls damage.

So, basically, use MGs before engagements - to get to an engagement, or after you've run out of cannon ammo.

This only holds if there are more than 2 MGs.
A/C with just two MGs, like the BF109s are better off using them during a dogfight, in positions where there is a low probability of dealing any real damage to the enemy - to further unnerve an opponent.

ImMoreBetter
07-26-2007, 12:20 PM
It depends on my aircraft.

If I have a plane with lots of cannon ammo, I'll use it along with my MGs. I'd use MGs alone for high angle shots or long range scares.

If I'm using a plane with little cannon ammo, I use machine guns for everything. If I get a position where I know I will hit, I'll unload with my cannon.

Choctaw111
07-26-2007, 02:05 PM
Practice with your gunnery till you get more comfortable.
I do not sight in with my MG's and then let loose with my cannon. I always fire with everything. The only question I have for those that do use their MG's to sight in first is how many times they wished they had used the cannon instead of the MG's because their MG bullets were good hits? As you get more practice with gunnery you will not need to do the guess work with the MG's first. You will know pretty much where your shots will hit before you even fire.
I do agree with the comments that ImMoreBetter has said about the amount of cannon ammo that different planes have. Cannon ammo is precious and for those planes that carry little of it, that ammo needs to be used wisely.

Xiolablu3
07-26-2007, 02:51 PM
For some reaon I can hit a lot better if I have MG's firing along with a cannon.

For instance, I find the Tempest and La5 armaent very hard to hit with.

FW190, SPitfire or Me109 are fine.

Not sure why it is, but I just find it so much easier to hit if I have MG;s firing as well as cannons.

Fighters always get all barrells at once.

I believe the MG sighting thing is for hitting bombers which dont take much evasive action. Or ground targets.

Divine-Wind
07-26-2007, 05:53 PM
If they're close enough and I have a bead, not much point in letting either gun group sitting quiet.

Let 'em have it!

JG53Frankyboy
07-26-2007, 06:09 PM
in those few seconds you have the enemy in your sight, you should give him everything you have.......................

because of that i have mapped weapon1&2 together on one trigger.

erco415
07-26-2007, 08:49 PM
All based on how good a shot it is: Good (high percentage) shot = everything I got. Poor (low percentage) shot = mg's only.

The-Pizza-Man
07-27-2007, 12:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Good flying didn't kill anyone yet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Au contraire:

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/puhak/puhak.htm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a case of bad flying rather than good flying killing someone. Bad flying kills people all the time.

F19_Ob
07-27-2007, 03:47 AM
I set convergence depending on the plane I fly.

Slow ungainly planes are better off with long convergence of about 300-400m because in the most likely scenario I usually wont get closer to a faster fighter.
The same goes for poor turners, because with long distance it's possible to pull lead on a good turner, wich wont happen in close quarters.
With 300m I get an ok hit-pattern at 400-500m aswell.

On normal planes 250m is ok wich gives an ok hitpattern up to 400-450m.

In most cases I fire all weapons at the same time and try to aim ahead of the enemy in the turn and while shooting ease up on the stick until the target comes back into view.
This usually is enough to insure a hit.
such a pass may be followed by a high or low-yoyo to get me faster into a new firingpass , if nessesary.

Often I use the mg's alone on enemies too far away, to startle and/or get him/her to react and thus turn, so I can get closer, and get more surface to hit than the thin profile from behind.
A few hits can make even experienced pilots react instinctively to their disadvantage, when stressed and/or tired.

I have won many engagements against foes with better energy, and planes, just by provoking their instincts this way.

In poor performance-planes tactics becomes the most important armament.

BBB_Hyperion
07-27-2007, 04:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Good flying didn't kill anyone yet. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Au contraire:

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/puhak/puhak.htm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stalling and crashing is bad flying .)

stansdds
07-27-2007, 04:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImMoreBetter:
It depends on my aircraft.

If I have a plane with lots of cannon ammo, I'll use it along with my MGs. I'd use MGs alone for high angle shots or long range scares.

If I'm using a plane with little cannon ammo, I use machine guns for everything. If I get a position where I know I will hit, I'll unload with my cannon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo!!!! I do not often fly a plane with combination weapons, but when I do I find it best to use the machine guns, which usually have plenty of ammo, to wound my opponent, then use the cannon(s) to finish him off when I am within about 300 meters.