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View Full Version : Coming 9 April from 1C: WHIRLWIND OF VIETNAM



leitmotiv
03-28-2007, 08:27 PM
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/whirlwindofvietnam/news....=6151171&mode=recent (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/whirlwindofvietnam/news.html?sid=6151171&mode=recent)

Get yer Wagner ready.

AVG_WarHawk
03-28-2007, 08:37 PM
INCOMING!

heywooood
03-28-2007, 09:33 PM
excellent.

These are the best of times.

BillyTheKid_22
03-28-2007, 11:31 PM
http://static.computergames.ro/cg/assassin/images2/whirlwindofvietnam/whirlwindofvietnam002.jpg



http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Great nice!!



http://www.ag.ru/ag15/reviews/3558/logo.jpg



http://www.tinplatejn.com/images/vehicles%20images/UH-1C_Huey_USARMY.JPG

jolly_magpie
03-28-2007, 11:36 PM
Kewl.

Huxley_S
03-28-2007, 11:45 PM
Well that's all very nice if you want to recreate the experience of mowing down fields of '****s', napalming villages and crop spraying Agent Orange in rice paddies to the sounds of Ride of The Valkyries... but don't the people at 1C understand we're all waiting eagerly for Storms of War? Get those helicopter sim types on the case please!

Gibbage1
03-29-2007, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Well that's all very nice if you want to recreate the experience of mowing down fields of '****s', napalming villages and crop spraying Agent Orange in rice paddies to the sounds of Ride of The Valkyries...

Wow. Went from 0 too political flame bait on the 1st page! A new UbiZoo reccord!

LEXX_Luthor
03-29-2007, 12:37 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Huxley::
Valkyries...
You know, the developer or publisher who puts a white B-70 on the sim box cover will outsell all those industry standard boxes with superHUD F-22 on them, or whatever its called -- Rapper I think.

Huxley_S
03-29-2007, 12:42 AM
Wow. Went from 0 too political flame bait on the 1st page! A new UbiZoo reccord!

I fail to see how it is political. I also fail to see the attraction of ground attack helicopter sim in Vietnam. Perhaps I am missing something.

I'm trying to imagine what the offline campaign mode would be like, or even worse... what the radio chatter would be like...

"We got ****s incoming... firing napalm..." etc

Makes me shudder.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you spend your missions airlifting out the wounded and delivering aid to refugees.

jermin122
03-29-2007, 01:09 AM
as cartoonish as IL2

leitmotiv
03-29-2007, 01:27 AM
Dear me, the Conscience of the Forums rises to the surface to fire a spread at yet another thread! The flame wars Otto Kretschmer! Since you are appalled by Americans, maybe you would prefer to be in a Cong unit undertaking punitive actions against locals deemed to be "counter-revolutionary", or a guard on a supply column along the Ho Chi Minh Trail supervising women and children forcibly conscipted to haul heavy bags of rice or weapons until they dropped from exhaustion or starvation? Better yet, on a raft with some of the hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing Vietnam after the "fascists" had been thrown out?

Best way to deal with this bird is to ignore him.

LEXX_Luthor
03-29-2007, 01:38 AM
Huxley::
I'm trying to imagine what the offline campaign mode would be like, or even worse... what the radio chatter would be like...
Mee too! Multiplay, if any, would be Huey vs Huey shooting. I never had Falcon, but I guess in that sim you play Online with F-16 vs F-16.

Outside the strategic thing I hinted at above, the best flight sim possible would be a dedicated "study" sim of not one, but TWO (2) traditionally opposing aircraft, say...

Wildcat/Hellcat vs Zeroes for carrier ops sims.

SPAD vs Fokker DR.1

F-86 vs Mig-15

Best of all would be F-4 vs MiG-21, as they had such long moddable lifetimes (about 15 years) and later addon packs could add earlier or later versions of each, with new maps and combat environment support features (new period radars, SAMS, ECM stuff, etc...).

The sweet idea here is the players can choose between two opposing planes that offer totally different gameplay, and as well, totally different combat support environment.

ie...Wildcat pilots would have radar support and radios, while Zero players would have better trained AI wingpersons. Both would offer fun carrier ops (I love flying from carriers in PF).

Playing the F-4 would offer lots of ground support or air combat. Playing the MiG-21 would offer a more restrictive radar guidance to target (less free hunting) and offer more flight endurance worries than the F-4, etc...lots of gameplay differences between these 2 aircraft and their combat environment support systems. As only one side would have carriers, I'd restrict the F-4s to Air Force versions only, although maybe that could change in a future Patch or addon.

And, Online or LAN play would be a blast!

FritzGryphon
03-29-2007, 01:43 AM
If it has a good FM and fields of ****s to mow, it will get out of my dreams and onto my drive.

Any objection based on political or humanitarian grounds confuses me. IL-2 is mostly about Germany versus Russia in WWII, some of the most monstrous regimes in history fighting one of the bloodiest wars of attrition of all time. You could deep fry all of Vietnam in napalm and not approach the horror of the eastern front.

Which doesn't at all matter, because this is game. Or at least so you and I have convinced ourselves, and with no new reason to change that opinion.

In fact, the ****s will be a major selling point. This game has infantry whereas IL-2 does not. And I assure you that at some point you will make a field of them in the FMB, and mow them down.

M_Gunz
03-29-2007, 02:49 AM
You might have trouble finding many 'been-there' vets willing to even look at that one.

Funny I find no mention of the Medevac pilots and missions.
I guess it's not good bash and counter-bash material.

mrsiCkstar
03-29-2007, 03:48 AM
I never had Falcon, but I guess in that sim you play Online with F-16 vs F-16.

wrong... well you can if you want... but wrong.

BBB_Hyperion
03-29-2007, 04:51 AM
Just 1 question.
How many FPS when at tree top level with perfect settings ?

FrenziedAU
03-29-2007, 05:05 AM
Reading the gamespot preview is quite amusing, with lines such as


"you can expect a whole bunch of crazy features, like real-time gauges and readouts inside the cockpit that change as you fly your helicopter around, if you fly while staying in the cockpit view"

Obviously not written by someone who has played a sim...

pacettid
03-29-2007, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
I'm trying to imagine what the offline campaign mode would be like, or even worse... what the radio chatter would be like...

"We got ****s incoming... firing napalm..." etc

Makes me shudder.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you spend your missions airlifting out the wounded and delivering aid to refugees.

Yeah, there's lot's of humanity to be had on the Eastern Front in WWII..."Russian hordes incoming...dropping anti-personnel bomblets...etc." Makes me shudder...but maybe I'm wrong too...I'm sure lot's of pilots in IL2 spend their time airlifting out the wounded and delivering aid to refugees...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

MEGILE
03-29-2007, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Huxley::<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Valkyries...
You know, the developer or publisher who puts a white B-70 on the sim box cover will outsell all those industry standard boxes with superHUD F-22 on them, or whatever its called -- Rapper I think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

F-22 Rapper? LOL what were you thinking?

Bremspropeller
03-29-2007, 09:06 AM
http://www.stuartmorrison.com/images/main_ali_g_04.jpg
Rapper.

Plunkertx
03-29-2007, 10:24 AM
I don't know about you guys, but just imagine playing some heavy rock music while flying low into the LZ with door gunners ablazing.

I'd buy it.

ploughman
03-29-2007, 10:32 AM
Will it have a surf board mod for the slicks?

Blutarski2004
03-29-2007, 11:20 AM
The radio traffic for a gunship pilot would probably sound more like this -

Ground - Reaper 1, do you see my smoke?

Gunship - I have your smoke, Lima 6.

Ground - Hit 50 meters north of my smoke.


The most common air/ground target in VN was the greenery.

LStarosta
03-29-2007, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Well that's all very nice if you want to recreate the experience of mowing down fields of '****s', napalming villages and crop spraying Agent Orange in rice paddies to the sounds of Ride of The Valkyries... but don't the people at 1C understand we're all waiting eagerly for Storms of War? Get those helicopter sim types on the case please!

Give me a f*cking break.

LStarosta
03-29-2007, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by Plunkertx:
I don't know about you guys, but just imagine playing some heavy rock music while flying low into the LZ with door gunners ablazing.

I'd buy it.

Fortunate Son

Dizz_
03-29-2007, 12:01 PM
Do I understand correctly that this will not support TIR? It's not listed on the Natural Point site, so I have to assume it will not be a feature. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

BrotherVoodoo
03-29-2007, 12:22 PM
I would hope they support TiR, it's basically a standard now for sims I think. I for one am looking forward to this sim, looks groovy.

pacettid
03-29-2007, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Well that's all very nice if you want to recreate the experience of mowing down fields of '****s', napalming villages and crop spraying Agent Orange in rice paddies to the sounds of Ride of The Valkyries... but don't the people at 1C understand we're all waiting eagerly for Storms of War? Get those helicopter sim types on the case please!

Give me a f*cking break. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Truer words were never said...roflmao

MrMojok
03-29-2007, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Will it have a surf board mod for the slicks?

CHARLIE DON'T SURF!

Breeze147
03-29-2007, 01:28 PM
I wonder if they'll model the Uh, "Freedom Fighters", cutting off the genitals of American GI's and shoving them into the GI's mouth and then pouring gasoline into the wound and lighting it up, all while said GI is still concious?

Some people will make excuses for the common German soldier fighting for the Third Reich, which by the way is shoving human beings into ovens at the same time, but Americans are reduced to the level of evil "****" slayers, napalming their way merrily across the countryside.

Huxley_S
03-29-2007, 01:46 PM
Americans are reduced to the level of evil "****" slayers, napalming their way merrily across the countryside.

I dunno... maybe an apology to the Vietnamese for attempting to deny them the right to overthrow their own government may go some way to changing that perception.

Like that'll ever happen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Daiichidoku
03-29-2007, 02:13 PM
it will SUCK without flyable OH6's with side-mount miniguns, or FAC Broncos with 4x M60s and Zuni rockets...or of course, SPADS

leitmotiv
03-29-2007, 03:06 PM
Huxley's version of history is straight out of an issue of PRAVDA, 1968. You mean a vicious, imperialistic gang of Marxist butchers in the north decided they were going to impose their politics on the Buddhist/Catholic south regardless of the cost to both sides? The thousands who fled this "workers paradise" in the years after final victory are the best critique of this Comintern position. The British far Left is so out of touch with reality they are a complete joke.

Huxley_S
03-29-2007, 03:14 PM
You mean a vicious, imperialistic gang of Marxist butchers in the north decided they were going to impose their politics on the Buddhist/Catholic south regardless of the cost to both sides? The thousands who fled this "workers paradise" in the years after final victory are the best critique of this Comintern position. The British far Left is so out of touch with reality they are a complete joke.

You mean the same Marxist butchers that just welcomed the President of the US a few months ago to visit their country to strengthen business ties.

"I have seen firsthand the great vibrancy and the excitement that's taking place in Vietnam," Bush said to Vietnamese President Nguyen Minh Triet. "You're like a young tiger, and I look forward to continuing to work to make sure our bilateral relations are close."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...AR2006111700224.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/17/AR2006111700224.html)

No apology though. Ah yes... those darn commies. Shoulda nuked 'em!

leitmotiv
03-29-2007, 03:24 PM
Yes, after reducing the country to the trash heap of Asia, killing thousands for being politically incorrect, and still maintaining a police state. Proves nothing except that business is business and schnapps is schnapps. The biggest trading partner of the U.S is another dictatorship.

Blutarski2004
03-29-2007, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:

I dunno... maybe an apology to the Vietnamese for attempting to deny them the right to overthrow their own government may go some way to changing that perception.

Like that'll ever happen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif



..... If the South Vietnamese had prevailed in the war, would they likewise be entitled to apologies from the PRC and USSR for attempting to deny them their rights to overthrow their own government?

Huxley_S
03-29-2007, 03:26 PM
Yes, after reducing the country to the trash heap of Asia

No. That's what the US did. If it hadn't had been for American intervention it would have all been over in a few months and hundreds of thousands of people would not have died for nothing.

ploughman
03-29-2007, 03:30 PM
I had heard the game is fairly limited in some ways, no scenario editor, just a set number of missions and that's it. Anyone know if this is true?

Huxley_S
03-29-2007, 03:37 PM
If the South Vietnamese had prevailed in the war, would they likewise be entitled to apologies from the PRC and USSR for attempting to deny them their rights to overthrow their own government?

Firstly it is nonsense to suggest that all the Vietnamese in the South supported their tyrannical regime. It was not a North vs South issue. It was a peasants revolt. A civil war.

Second, although the PRC and USSR were happy to provide weapons and support, they did not take part in any fighting. It's hardly in the same league as America's involvement.

XyZspineZyX
03-29-2007, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Plunkertx:
I don't know about you guys, but just imagine playing some heavy rock music while flying low into the LZ with door gunners ablazing.

I'd buy it.

Fortunate Son </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Paint it Black

XyZspineZyX
03-29-2007, 03:47 PM
Hux, what happened, man?



Does anyone remember a helo sim from about 15 years ago, called "UH-1"?

You had no guns. You went on search and rescue missions and so on. There was one mission to the Bermuda Triangle. I loved that sim

Huxley_S
03-29-2007, 03:51 PM
Hux, what happened, man?

Just calling a spade a spade.

Plunkertx
03-29-2007, 04:54 PM
Was Vietnam a success?

You bet. Check out their economy. They won't be messing around anymore.

Iraq...next!

Blutarski2004
03-29-2007, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
Firstly it is nonsense to suggest that all the Vietnamese in the South supported their tyrannical regime.

..... I cannot recall having made that claim. Do you believe that all the people in the North supported THEIR tyrannical regime?




It was not a North vs South issue.

..... Do you have this on good authority? It will come as quite a shock to the vast numbers of Vietnamese who fled from the North to the South after the partition. I wonder why they chose to do that.




It was a peasants revolt.

..... I see. What about the peasant revolts which occured in NV after the Viet Minh seizure of power?




A civil war.

..... On this we can agree.




Second, although the PRC and USSR were happy to provide weapons and support, they did not take part in any fighting. It's hardly in the same league as America's involvement.

..... Indeed. They had the cynical good sense to supply all the weapons, but let the little brown people do all the bleeding. If only the US had followed suit.



I must admit, you seem to have a wonderfully one-sided point of view on this bit of history.

BSS_Goat
03-29-2007, 05:43 PM
So Hux, where are you from....


If your any of these:

English... we could have charging Zulus or Indians ect ect

Japanese... Chinese refugees

Russian... their own soldiers and residents of Berlin

German..... well just pick one

French .... they got some Vietnamese also


Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house

Huxley_S
03-29-2007, 06:23 PM
Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house

British.

I make no apologies for atrocities and injustices no matter who is responsible. I condemn them all equally.

The post however was about a Vietnam ground attack helicopter sim.

Someone post a link to a sim where you have to shoot at civil rights marchers in Northern Ireland and I'll have a rant about that for you.

OK. At the risk of being banned I will post no more on these kinds of subjects. I like IL2 too much. Last word.

Hey Ivan... er.... how about them Spitfires n' stuff.

LStarosta
03-29-2007, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Yes, after reducing the country to the trash heap of Asia

No. That's what the US did. If it hadn't had been for American intervention it would have all been over in a few months and hundreds of thousands of people would not have died for nothing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it hadn't been for allied intervention, WWII wouldn't have been, and everything would be over in a few months and hundreds of thousands of people (except for undesirables) would not have died for nothing.

That's one heck of a Chamberlainism right there.

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-29-2007, 06:53 PM
Hijackers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

XyZspineZyX
03-29-2007, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
Hijackers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

White Rabbit

Gimme Shelter

All along the watchtower (Hendrix)

XyZspineZyX
03-29-2007, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Hux, what happened, man?

Just calling a spade a spade. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well sure, but it's no secret that Man is the most violent animal put on Earth by a fun lovin God

I like Luftwaffe careers a lot in FB/1946. That doesn't mean I condone ovens built for two. It means I find the subject interesting. Don't let your moral compass drive you nuts brother http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

heywooood
03-29-2007, 09:23 PM
I just want to fly Hueys...

and for the record - I had nothing to do with this... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif



WAR is h3ll....vidya games are a distraction.

I am reminded of two people I have had the pleasure to know who were involved with Hueys in Vietnam.

One feller was a pilot - he limped a little and had never set foot in a helicopter from the day he got out of there...damm funny sense of humor he has though...

Told me of a time they were flying around a couple of fellers that needed a ride but didn't talk much...got to where they needed to be dropped off and then were RTB....but there was a refueling stop to make first.

Mike says they had lots of these little bases, just clearings really, where fuel was stored for just this situation - little out of the way spots with no ATC of any kind and only a few
barrels of avgas and a dirt strip for the AC130's or the DC3's and a ruddy patch for the helo's

Anyways Mike has them cutting across at right angles to the strip and yells for his right seater to look out that way for traffic whilst he checks left and down he comes...well just then the copilot starts screaming and Mike looks right and sees nothing but C130 nose and two crazed looking crewmen pulling for their lives and ol' Mike is pushing the f'n Huey down as hard as he can. He said it looked like that C130 was 5 feet from the right door when he looked that way... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

I guess, he says, next time I'll get into the pattern and get a real good look around rather than just assume no one ever uses the place.

He says they got down and pumped what gas they could as fast as they could before that C130 crew had time to land and come talk to him...and tore outta there.

The other feller was a side gunner .50 cal..I forget where these guys were based or when they were there - but I have seen pictures of them both in their gear next to their helo's.
This other feller, Ron had a story about flying some VIP from one base to another along with a photographer and an aide (apparently it went on for a few days and the VIP was a real jack@ss)...He says they get going along and the VIP tells his aide to tell Ron that he wants to see the .50 cal open up.

Ron looks at him and says ok - He swings the gun out and just as a flight of birds pops out of the jungle canopy Ron squeezes off a burst and vaporizes most of the flock....Naturally the pilot has no idea WTF is a goin' on - he figures they are taking fire (Ron says he knew all along what would happen next) and yanks the Huey up on its side , does a couple of other radical evasive type manoevers and then gets his head around to see WTF Ron was doing firing his weapon for no reason when everyone suddenly realises ther is no more VIP.

Now Ron tells me the guy was gone - they dropped the aide and photographer off at a forward medevac base and loaded up some injured GI's and flew them back toward the nearest field hospital and never heard another word about it.
It just got lost in the shuffle - no one could remember what crew was assigned to the guy - the aide and the photographer had enough trouble of their own just getting out of there and in a place like that, who would believe their story, and the fog of war and all that.
Somehow I doubt all that...well most of that - Ron is kinda full of sh1t that way...but he insists.

leitmotiv
03-29-2007, 11:07 PM
Since this sim was placed in 1965 at the start of the war, we will have many opportunities to be blown out of the sky because te UH-1 was no Apache, and, for that matter, the Apache was proven to be vulnerable to massed groundfire in one stunning incident in Gulf War 2 where the Iraqi ground forces inflicted a traumatic reverse on the helicopter. As the promotional material informs, this sim will be about teamwork and tactics. You have to work with the other choppers to succeed. Far from being Death From Above inflicted on the hapless VC and NVA, the U.S. Army lost thousands of Hueys to ground fire. At this stage in their history, helicopters were flying light trucks---AKs could tear them to pieces. Thus, we will have an opportunity to discover the myriad ways you can be undone in an early gunship. Once you throw out the politics, tactics are left, and there you have the true history.

Ruy Horta
03-30-2007, 01:07 AM
From a sim POV it should be interesting, piloting these early combat helicopters, but from a game POV it should be pretty stale.

From that point of view it won't be different than the original Hind sim (anyone remember?).

It is counter insurgency ops that you'll have to fly, albeit hyper active compared to RL, still pretty shallow in terms of game play.

Nontheless I might look for this one in the bargain bin, where it will end up pretty quick no doubt. The Flight model might be its one redeeming factor.

Ruy Horta
03-30-2007, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Once you throw out the politics, tactics are left, and there you have the true history.

Flying an aerial light truck...

leitmotiv
03-30-2007, 02:15 AM
I think you are right about the play, RH. It will be like a tank sim---if you get ambushed by a hot LZ, odds are you will be smoking metal in a matter of seconds. Unless you catch the other side out in the open, you are going to be blasting flora and hoping it's the enemy. In so many words, forget "fair fights" with each side dueling. I don't see this as a big hit---in fact, I wonder how it ever got made? If it was VC/NVA vs the choppers, then you would have a game.

Breeze147
03-30-2007, 09:02 AM
Very rarely did you see what you were shooting at. It was almost all Spray and Pray and Harassment and Interdiction.

That's just the way it was.

GIAP.Shura
03-30-2007, 10:01 AM
Wow. Went from 0 too political flame bait on the 1st page!

Not too diplomatic I must admit but only flame bait if taken that way. This is stuff that went on in Vietnam and Huxley's initial and following post was saying that he didn't see the appeal of something simulating this.

Sure, some nasty stuff, particularly against civilians, happened on the Eastern Front but IL-2 doesn't model aggression against civilians. No rewards for blowing up buildings, sinking merchant shipping with torpedoes and certainly no Hiroshima bombings. Of course, maybe Whirlwind of Vietnam won't model civilian casualties.

However, I don't think that is the real problem. I think those saying that IL-2 is just a game and that Whirlwind of Vietnam is the same are being overly simplistic. These are sims and at least part of the appeal must be in the connection and representation these have of reality. If it wasn't the case we would all be playing UT2004. Some people say they choose to play as country x to honour the veterans who fought and died for them. Now it is good that people choose to remember the deeds of those that fought in WW2 but this has nothing to do with the fact that you play a sim as a past time for entertainment. Lets face it, you don't die when your screen goes black and the pixels on your screen aren't real lives you are snuffing out.

So where does reality come in? Well, I think that when most of us play IL-2 it is with some sort of characterised impression of WW2 and we rationalise out all the bad stuff. This is a romanticised version of WW2 and we like to justify our indulgence in this by saying that we are playing a realistic sim. It is easy to romanticise because we have strong identifiable notions, goodies and baddies, dramatic moments and a satisfying conclusion. This is the image we have in our popular consciousness. In effect, we are playing roles and that allows us to switch off our moral compass and not think about the horror that we are 'simulating' when we play IL-2. The fact that some may justify these roles with pre-conceptions about their nationalities is just an added bonus.

The Vietnam conflict is a much harder conflict to deal with in this manner. Why did Huxley use the description he did? Mainly because that is the vision we have of Vietnam. It was a very confused conflict with lots of hidden agendas. Lets face it, the U.S. government weren't there because they wanted to defend the South Vietnamese from the nasty North Vietnamese. They were afraid of the domino effect, its implications for their Pacific military installations and the overall balance of power in the cold war. This is hard to justify after the fact when the actual implications of communist Vietnam have turned out to be pretty small on everybody outside Vietnam. This is the main reason why justifying military intervention in Vietnam, Yugoslavia or Iraq by comparing it to military intervention in WW2 is misleading. The contexts of the situations are poles apart.

If you are playing a game which is set in a certain historical period and you have some knowledge of the actual events, then the only way you are going to get some enjoyment from the game is if you can compartmentalise your knowledge. That will be easier for some people than for others and for some periods than for others. Some people here have said that they couldn't play SH3 because it made them sick to the stomach. I have felt uneasy at times playing CoD because I was finding it hard to deal with "death as entertainment". I don't think that Huxley saying that he sees little appeal in a Vietnam helo sim is necessarily an attack on U.S. citizens or military or a justification of atrocities committed by the VC.

Personally, I will be keeping an eye on this one. It has been a while since a good helo sim has come out.

leitmotiv
03-30-2007, 10:14 AM
Were you in Hueys, Breeze?

If it's handled right, it will be a great tool for teaching just how hard the war was to fight. WINGS OVER VIETNAM is ridiculously hard in the sense that you are very likely to get shot down over the North, and you aren't likely to rack up a score like in IL-2, but, if you want to get an impression of how hard it was to fly an F-105 Downtown, it is a good teacher (especially with the "Yankee Air Pirate" add-on).

Breeze147
03-30-2007, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Were you in Hueys, Breeze?


Only about maybe 7 or 8 times as a passenger. I was in the 821st Combat Security Squadron. Our direct descendants today in Iraq are designated a Light Infantry Brigade. That's what we did. Active versus static defense of Air Bases.

pacettid
03-30-2007, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by GIAP.Shura:
I don't think that Huxley saying that he sees little appeal in a Vietnam helo sim is necessarily an attack on U.S. citizens or military or a justification of atrocities committed by the VC.


Huxley's opinions are well known and a matter of record, for anyone who is a regular visitor to these forums. Here is my personal favorite:

"At the risk of being banned I will post no more on these kinds of subjects. I like IL2 too much. Last word."

leitmotiv
03-30-2007, 11:57 AM
Cheers, Breeze---not an easy job. The only guy from my high school to get killed in Vietnam was in the Air Force defending an air base---hit by a mortar round during a general attack.

Breeze147
03-30-2007, 04:13 PM
I'm sorry to hear that. I think the thing about being a casualty in any war is the sheer randomness of it. It could be anyone at any time. The only thing that you are sure of is that it will never be you. I guess that's how you get through it.

leitmotiv
03-30-2007, 05:24 PM
Glad you made it---long life to you!

DrHerb
03-30-2007, 06:39 PM
Riders on the storm

The End

Hartford688
03-31-2007, 09:23 AM
Initial reviews in Russia seemed very poor...now a review in English (if clearly not by a big sim pilot)also is not encouraging:

http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&...age=1&gonew=1#UNREAD (http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2166497&page=1&gonew=1#UNREAD)

Enemy Engaged 2 out next month, however.

leitmotiv
03-31-2007, 04:23 PM
Looks like a dudsky from 1C. Wonder why they only had early ('65) gunships, no troop carrying missions, or medevac missions which were extremely risky? Wonder why the FM wasn't maxed? Odd.

Bo_Nidle
03-31-2007, 05:45 PM
I was looking forward to this but with no demo this close to the game release its not looking like its going to be a happy experience. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Looks like I'll have to continue waiting for "Black Shark" even if it does mean me having to listen to my eldest sons perpetual question "Why didn't they do the Apache?" every time I watch the trailer for it!