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DmdSeeker
12-09-2004, 06:56 PM
And side slip...

I'm not a pilot; but I've "had a go" a couple of times in a Cessna and took a couple of gliding lessons. I've been flying sims of one sort or another for 8 or nine years now....

I've always been told to keep the ball/needle/cotton thread centered; and in both Airwarrior and Aces High I don't really use rudder much in general flying; though I rely heavily on the rudder in turn fights and for gunnery.

However; I fly AEP offline a lot; and I've noticed the AI use; by my standards; and inordinately huge amount of rudder; with the ball or needle way off from centre.

What's up with that?

BuzzU
12-09-2004, 07:16 PM
The AI do lots of goofy things. Ignore it.

Tully__
12-09-2004, 08:46 PM
Further, though you should keep the ball centered while flying "correctly" in civil aviation, there are times in combat when a big dose of rudder can help. You can use it to make last minute aim corrections or make your plane appear to be flying in a slightly different direction to confuse someone attempting to get a shot on you.

Don't overdo it though, un-coordinated flight increases drag a bit and makes it easier to lose energy when you may not want to. You may also find that the person shooting at you knows the rudder trick and the apparent change in direction wont confuse him/her at all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

jugent
12-10-2004, 06:22 AM
The rudder function was better in IL2. In FB/AEP/PF you can roll and it doesnt inflict yaw and it doesnt reduce speed due to increased drag.
I think that this is because most user got joystick that corrects rudder by twisting the stick.
German planes got a fixed rudder tab and it made corrected the yaw a a fixed speed.
Have you noticed that you go from 0 to 100% throttle in a second and it wont twist the plane much. It was strikt prescriptions how the flap and rudder should be set during takeoff otherwise the engine twisted you off the landing strip.
Some airfield removed hangars when they got the hawker tempest because of the twisting during accelerations.
I dont know why UBI-soft have excluded this.

Salfordian
12-10-2004, 06:49 AM
The BoB ace, Pete Brothers said on the recent C4 "Spitfire Ace" tv show that he used to fly with a bit of slip on using the rudder trim so if he was bounced the E/A would be aiming off when trying to lead him.

Holtzauge
12-10-2004, 11:39 AM
Be sure to keep the ball centered while firing your guns!

If you do not, you are pointing your a/c at the target but the bullets will have a velocity component in the horizontal plane and you will not hit the target. Close up it does not really matter but beware of the effects at long ranges.

Acually, I think the sideslip you experience is one of the nice realistic features of the this sim. You will notice that this effect changes with power settings and speeds and it is caused by the the fact that the propeller as a side effect to pushing the air back also introduces a rotaion of the flow. So the air from the prop will hit your tailplane at an angle which explains that you have to apply so much rudder when taking off.

Allied pilots who test flew the Me-109 complained about the abscence of a rudder trimming device and that they got tired from having to keep a high pressure on the rudder pedals.

If you really want to be picky you should co-ordinate your control input so that you apply rudder in the same direction as you intend to turn. This is necessary in a glider but in a fighter the effect is marginal so I think that the rudder and rudder trim is more useful to counter the propwash.

The IA are dumb in the sim since they turn with the rudder. This can be done but the drag penalty is prohibitive. But hey, they also pull high AoA at low altitude and keep this up until they meet the ground so one would not expect them to be so picky about how they turn!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
And side slip...

I'm not a pilot; but I've "had a go" a couple of times in a Cessna and took a couple of gliding lessons. I've been flying sims of one sort or another for 8 or nine years now....

I've always been told to keep the ball/needle/cotton thread centered; and in both Airwarrior and Aces High I don't really use rudder much in general flying; though I rely heavily on the rudder in turn fights and for gunnery.

However; I fly AEP offline a lot; and I've noticed the AI use; by my standards; and inordinately huge amount of rudder; with the ball or needle way off from centre.

What's up with that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LStarosta
12-10-2004, 12:14 PM
Yes, there is a little rule of thumb that we pilots adhere to:

Step on the ball. Apply rudder in the direction of the ball.

By keeping the ball in the center, your plane is in a coordinated turn. If it's not in a coordinated turn, then what you are basically doing is throwing the side of your fuselage into the wind and then the fuselage acts as an airbreak. What this is called is a skid or a slide, and you can actually use an exaggerated form of this by applying ailerons in one direction and rudder in the other to throw your fuselage into the wind and bleed off excess speed so as to maintain a glideslope, or if you're being towed in a glider, to keep from colliding with the towing aircraft.

Rudder is ESSENTIAL for not only air to air and air to ground gunnery, but in energy and boom and zoom fighting where it is IMPERATIVE that you maintain your energy advantage over all enemies in order to dominate the situation and to stay alive. If you do not use your rudder, each time you execute a maneuver that involves changes in velocity in the horizontal plane (aka turns, scissors etc) you are burning off insane amounts of energy which will leave you EXTREMELY vulnerable if you cannot convert kinetic energy (speed) into potential energy (altitude) efficiently enough. This is especially important if you are flying a dedicated energy fighter such as a Fw190, P47, P51, etc which usually cannot rely on turning ability. Keep up your speed, learn to convert potential energy to kinetic energy and back again with as much efficiency as possible. (Basically after diving, try to get back to the same altitude you started at. The Law of Conservation of Energy prevents you from doing this with 100% efficiency, which keeps your aircraft from becoming a perpetual motion machine. What you are trying to do is to make up for that inefficiency with power generated by your engine.) This involves not only rudder, but radiator flaps, and propeller pitch as well. It may be tough and daunting at first, especially in Fw190's but after a while you will be changing your prop pitch, radiator settings, throttle settings and everything else without even thinking about it.

BM357_Raven
12-10-2004, 01:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
However; I fly AEP offline a lot; and I've noticed the AI use; by my standards; and inordinately huge amount of rudder; with the ball or needle way off from centre.

What's up with that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps it's an existential problem. By exaggerating their rudder control they are saying "I use too much rudder, therefore I am."

I'm not buying it though...

jeroen-79
12-10-2004, 05:19 PM
Copying the AI is not recommended.
Not just because the AI might be dumb but also because the AI might fly a different flightmodel.

Otherwise sideslipping causes drag that gives nothing in return.
You use the rudder to keep the plane aligned with the airstream.

The rudder can also be used to prevent spins and get out of them.
If you are in a spin or feel a wing dropping when you are close to a stall then giving hard opposite rudder can help you recover along with pushing the stick forward.
Don't kick yourself in an opposite spin though.

Try it out by flying just above stallspeed and then kicking the rudder hard.