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sunflower1
10-02-2004, 04:41 PM
I have flown nearly all the planes in FB/AEP now and the single seat Sturmovik seems to have the FM that has the most detail, if not necessarily in terms of historical accuracy (down Stiglr, down) but in terms of modelling how a/c fly. I have some full scale time and ticket, a lot of R/C experience, a bunch of skydives and related tomfoolery, so I do have some actual experience with "being there."

This plane, hands down, is the most faithful of the ones I've flown in this game. Am I becoming a fanboy of early Sturmoviks or is there something to this?

Give it to me straight doc, I can take it.

Korolov
10-02-2004, 04:51 PM
Fly one of the two seaters with a 12.7mm rear gun and loaded up with 4 100kg bombs and 4 RS-132 rockets, then try to dogfight with it.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

sunflower1
10-02-2004, 05:36 PM
Oh yeah, I have flown those, they eat AI fighters up even at their portly weights but I'm sure it'd be different online. I just mean the plain old flight modelling, weight and power aside.

F19_Ob
10-03-2004, 04:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Korolov:
Fly one of the two seaters with a 12.7mm rear gun and loaded up with 4 100kg bombs and 4 RS-132 rockets, then try to dogfight with it.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



The double seater...That is one of my goals korolov http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

So...korolov...U are a hardhead too?
Well...I'm normally on GG or F16 and most probably in an il-2 (just look on the side with less players ) Perhaps We can keep eachothers six'es free of foe fighters?
At the moment we are short of hardheads in Il-2's, hmmm.... short of most every thing really.


Ofcourse it usually wont be a match for any opposing fighter (I know them well too) but on occasion I have surprised and even shot down pairs of fighters targeting only me, wich is (and should be) close to impossible to do on frequent basis, since u only get one full turn or a few halfturns wich the 109 easily can keep up with and the fw190 can manage if careful, and no probs in the longer run.

The interesting part is that an il2 flyer hardly ever get a salute or a "well done il2" or similar when he succeed in shooting down a fighter (or bomb him).....only silence...If my engine wasnt running I would have thought my connection was faulting.

.........................

No....he he! I dont sincerely recommend anyone to fly it as a "fighter" but with a fighter mentality and pressing it to absolute limit, yes.
Many more would keep at it for longer periods and not quit and even survive, I belive.

If Il-2's stuck together on DF servers they would be able to protect eachother (sometimes even better than with fighter escort) and really have a chance against the fighters.
Well it also depends on how many fighters the other team has and the concentration in the area u are in. (sometimes u just are out of luck) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
I normally have 2 or 3 foes on my tail almost every flight but 4 is not uncommon, so Its extreemly hard to just end a mission with wheels on ground.
I think that is why I'm normally the only one left flying the il2 at the end of a session and the rest in fighters (if at all).



Stay together il-2's

clint-ruin
10-03-2004, 04:50 AM
Something for perspective - the Il2s contemporarys are things like the Emil, Hurricane, Zero, IAR80, etc. Against those I think it's an outstanding fighter - cannons give it a bit of grief, but if all you have is rifle caliber guns, a good sturmovik pilot can give you an exceedingly hard time of things. Especially when they get 2 23mm cannons to point at you in the III series.

Once you move to 42 especially, the Il-2 can no longer hold its own as well against the MC202, 109G2, 190A4 and others. Fine for ground attack - but staying to engage is suicide, at least without a healthy advantage in numbers or altitude. Since you're on the deck for ground pounding alt is rarely an option, and if you're soloing online you're unlikely to have backup, you can start to see that this is not exactly playing to the Shturmoviks advantage! :>

What we really need is the Il-10 for fun competative ground pounding in the late war era. Turn and dogfight performance was apparently about equal to that of the La-5FN down low according to some combat evaluations posted here long ago. Something with that much armament and that much armor performing that well is just nasty.

F19_Ob
10-03-2004, 05:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sunflower1:
.....but I'm sure it'd be different online. . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yes much harder IMO... compared to the late 1941 singleseater any double seater is atleast a ton heavier and lose energy rapidly.
Add to this a single or a pair of thinking foes
that both have u as a target, or why not 4-5 going after u alone. (my record is 11 foes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )


In rare cases the reargunner may damage or even shoot down a foe, but any skilled opposition soon learns to stay below and behind.

When I was at my peak in the 109's I almost never shot at any il-2's at the end, but but I frequently gave them one pass enroute to my target just to keep them warm. Unfortunately one pass is often enough if u have the 30mm cannon so later I only used a few bops with the mg's wich still would damage them.

As long as the axis side do not have the 30mm cannon there can be limited chances for doubleseaters.
Although the 30mm dont always kill the il-2
with a hit it almost always cripple it so evasion gets much harder and a second hit is a sure killer in my experience, and if the elevator goes at first hit (normal) there isnt much to do more than bail, or stay up a while longer if u want to try keep them occupied a bit longer.

--------------

As an all axis fighter-guy I frequently saw how the opposition just quit using bombers and went fighters, quit and left the servers or simply just joined the winning side enabling the overwhelming outnumbering of and complete destruction of the scattered reds. (historically correct but not fun in long run)
This is One of the reasons why I almost always fly on the lesser side nowadays.
I also wanted to explore the heavies and see if they could increase their survival rate a bit...and now I belive they can with just a slight change of tactics but since one really dont know the other guys online its often difficult get a team-thing started and working.



Anyway....I very much look forward to get blown into pieces in your company sunflower.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

F19_Ob
10-03-2004, 05:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:

Once you move to 42 especially, the Il-2 can no longer hold its own as well against the MC202, 109G2, 190A4 and others. Fine for ground attack - but staying to engage is suicide, at least without a healthy advantage in numbers or altitude. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I partly agree...and I'm not really wanting to correct anything, just to point at the altitude thing u mentioned.

Alone any Il2 is at an disadvantage, even if the earlier could "initially" outurn a 109 it wouldnt manage to stay on the 109's six for long in the vertical moments or keep a 109 from eventually converging on its six.
With 2 or more single il2's this changes rapidly since they now can spray their powerfull
guns at the foe on the friend six.
And if added to this some altitude, then u have a heavy fighter that have the energy to attack and evade and keep at it for a while (big difference)


The doubleseater is a ton heavier and lose energy more rapidly, but still can manage limited fighting with altitude as late as 1942.
I belive that if it was escorted by its nimbler 1 ton lighter, singleseat littlebrother from 1941 (same 23mm armament) they would make a good fighting pair on 1942 maps even 1943. IMO


In many cases on 43 maps I'm sure I would rack up many more kills if the 1941 3series singleseater was available, since it was a ton lighter. I get afully close to kills in the 2 seater,even on 43 maps, and I often wonder what the outcome would have been if I just had managed to turn or lift the nose a few inches more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The lighter one does not only turn and climb better its also easier to maneuver close to and in and out of clouds and still be able to keep altitude, wich is much more difficult in a 2seater. The lack of reargunner dont bother me at all because i dont think it adds anything of survivability more than occasional warning, but I rather have maneverability.

a few thoughts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

sunflower1
10-03-2004, 10:57 AM
Well Ob, I'm practicing hard and trying to get a connection that'll work. I think I should be online in less than a month but I still don't have the voice com thing worked out and I just started full switch so I'm still struggling under the workload.

It'll be my pleasure to be blown to bits with you, sir.

jurinko
10-03-2004, 12:34 PM
early ILs have doubled climb rate and late ones tripled compared to Object viewer. It can efficiently fight as a fighter in early war servers, I would say it´s better in FB than I-16.