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View Full Version : So I'm new to the IL-2 Series, and I need some help



WOX_69
03-16-2007, 12:22 AM
First off if this is the wrong board or if there's another thread that covers the contents of this thread please just move/lock and point me in the right direction.

I bought IL-2 Strumovik 1946 with all the other expansions and what not and it looks amazing, I just need help with the initial point of the whole game, flying.

Well first to tell you what type of joystick I have, I have the Saitek X52 Flight Control System. It serves me well in flying in other games (Not dedicated flight sims) but was wondering if anyone's heard anything of people's opinion with it in this game.

Now to the problem, stalling. Every time I tried to roll and bank so far I end up stalling not even a full second into the turn and pretty much not recover. I've lowered the roll sensitivity to .1, down from 1.0, and while that helps me out some, I still inevitably end up rolling, not being anywhere near capable to pull off any basic maneuvers. Also on that topic, I don't know if going all the way down to .1 is "dumbing it down" and making it less authentic, because I do want to have that fell, it's why I got the game. The in game tutorials didn't do much in the way of helping me out in that department, and I haven't found anything online that has helped me yet.

So I've come to the community in hopes of getting so help. Hopefully the advice you give I can implement into my flying so I can master this down the line.

MrMojok
03-16-2007, 01:01 AM
I use that very same joystick/throttle. I have had it for a year now, and while some folks on this forum don't like it, there seem to be many more that think it's the best.

For starters, please download this program:
IL2 Joy Control (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=1021)

With this, you can really fine-tune all axis. For some people, it helps with the stalling to lower the range on your pitch input. Instead of having it max out at 100, try lowering it to 90 or so. You will see what I mean when you run the program. If your hands tend to jitter a bit on the stick, or it just seems too sensitive overall, you can add some damping or filtering to some axis. This will see to it that it will take a more purposeful stick movement to have an effect, a slight twitch won't make the plane twitch correspondingly.

It may be that your stick settings are fine, but you are just falling victim to what a lot of us did at first. As simplistic as this sounds, you simply cannot ham-fist the stick in this game. You've got to be smooth and easy.

I came to this game from Janes's WWII fighters and CFS2. In those games I could really jerk the stick around a lot and not stall too much. This game is a lot different.

Tweak your settings some using that utility. Someone may come around and give you some settings to try.

skarden
03-16-2007, 02:39 AM
First of all WOX welcome to the community and welcome to the best flying game u have ever played,but....... of coarse its also one of the hardest games to come to grips with at first but dont let that bother you as it's by far the most rewarding game I'v ever played and hopefully you'll agree after a while.

The X-52 is a great stick for this game,I have the same stick and it'll serve you very well especially with the IL-2 joycontrol software in the link above.The best way is to just ajust the different axis's to YOUR taste,ajusting this is not dumbing down by any means so play with it till it feels good.

As far as flying,well there's all sorts of ways to improve but for me personly the most understanding came after i had this PDF recomended to me by one of our Mods here Bearcat (cheers for that BC!) it's called in pursuit and it cover's pretty much everything and best of all it makes sense and is fun to read.

In pursuit (http://web.comhem.se/%7Eu85627360/)

Another thing make is to make sure you practice just flying first,fighting will come later.This should get you startedjust remember be patient and have fun.Im sure there will be other's along soon to help you out too.
See you up there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

rnzoli
03-16-2007, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by WOX_69:
First off if this is the wrong board or if there's another thread that covers the contents of this thread please just move/lock and point me in the right direction.
Welcome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
This is the right place to ask, becaause there are many similar threads here. Whenever you're in a hurry to get an answer to something, you might consider trying the forum search function as well, or the browsing through the stickied threads on the top (with exclamation marks).


Originally posted by WOX_69:
Well first to tell you what type of joystick I have, I have the Saitek X52 Flight Control System.
A very good joystick overall. One of the preferred ones among the top 3 recommendations.


Originally posted by WOX_69:
Now to the problem, stalling. Every time I tried to roll and bank so far I end up stalling not even a full second into the turn and pretty much not recover. I've lowered the roll sensitivity to .1, down from 1.0, and while that helps me out some, I still inevitably end up rolling,
What you describe seems to be a snap roll. To avoid that, don't even touch roll snesitivity. This is caused by stalling, and stalling is caused by pulling the elevator too much. If you want to lower something, lower the amount of pulling on your stick, or lower the pitch (not roll!) sensitivity a bit, maybe maxing it out at 80% in the Hardware Setup screen of IL-2. You should also consider flying easier 'training' airplanes, like IL-2 itself, of La-7 or a Spitfire, which are a bit less prone to stalling out.


Originally posted by WOX_69:
So I've come to the community in hopes of getting so help. Hopefully the advice you give I can implement into my flying so I can master this down the line.
Good ambitions, may I ask you many years of patience do you have? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Many of the folks fly this sim/game for more than a year (some people online may fly it for 4-5 years). The learning curve is like the Himalayas, although it can be pretty entertaining to climb it (not just being on the top).

Bearcat99
03-16-2007, 05:44 AM
This sim is very challenging.. thats one reason why it is so popular. Yank and bank gamer types usually don't last long with it. (Not saying that that's what you are either... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif)

I recommend the following try it for a few weeks depending on your progress:

Go into the sim.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Preflight</span>
1-Go to CONTROLS and make sure that you have the following functions mapped, either to a key on your keyboard or on your stick or that you know where they are in the case that they are already mapped:
A-Chocks
B-Tailhook
C-Wing Fold
D-Radiator
E-Canopy Open
F-Supercharger > < (> < = increase, decrease)
G-Mixture > <
H-Prop Pitch > <
I-Toggle All Engines
1-Left Engines
2-Right Engines
K-Trim-All 3 trims are good to have but IMO rudder and elevator are a must. If you can put elevator trim on a slider. Rudder trim actually works pretty well an a switch but its up to you.. mine is on a slider because I have so many free ones.
L-Weapons 1-4 Machine guns, cannon, rockets & bombs. Also Toggle Gunpods.
M-Raise lower seat... this only works on some planes.. but it is good for carrier landings in particular.

Also All of the views...F1-F5 and FOV WIDE,NORMAL & GUNSIGHT. (These are preset I believe so just know where they are).

2-Go to the Quick Mission Builder>go to the difficulty screen. On that first page the only thing that you should DESELECT (meaning the light will be out) is Limited Ammo. Hit Next in the lower right hand corner and another screen will pop up. On that page DESELECT - Cockpit Always On,No External Views,No Icons,No Padlock,No Map icons,No Minimap Path and No Speedbar. All else should have a light on. Then click BACK 3 times.

NOTE: Some of these settings are temporary, just so that you can remove some of the frustration factor from the sim, however you should NEVER EVER fudge on flight settings. Keep the flying portion of the sim as realistic as possible as far as stalls ..... Where you can bend things is on the settings like external views and icons etc. Some might say eliminate CEM (Complex Engine Management) as well but I think that is a bad idea... It is best to get used to how the plane will perform in it's fullness. In the beginning these changes will help you immensely in getting used to the sim and how it works. As you get comfortable you can and should tighten things up a bit. I still use externals and icons although I very very rarely fly outside of the cockpit (As in no cockpit around you at all) and I like to set my icons extremely tight... so that they show up much closer than the default settings.. but for now this is good to learn on .

Now that you have done all that Preflight stuff comes the hands on.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Hands On Phase One</span>
Go to Multiplay>Create New Server>(Make sure Gametype is Dogfight)>Create>2>Dogfight 4 or 5 (Which should be Dogfight for 2 armies winter or summer). Select a base..... For this part of the exercise select a base in the rear... any one will do.. pick a plane (I recommend that you consider one initially.. and stick with it until you at least get through phase one)> select arming. In the arming screen set your fuel to 100% set gun convergence to 300 for both for now. Hit fly. You will find yourself on the Tarmac... start your engine... taxi to the runway and take off. Fly a circuit around the airfield and land. Practice trying to do touch and gos... almost landing... fly around in the sky... turn dive.... if you crash hit escape... then refly... and do it over and over until you can get up... fly around and land reasonably well. Once you can do that and you are comfortable go on to Phase 2.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Hands On Phase Two</span>
For this part of the exercise you might want to turn limited ammo back on this way when you drop a bomb it will stay dropped. Or you could actually begin this phase on friendly bases with unlimited ammo and then once you get some kind of feel for it... limit the ammo and start to hit unfriendly bases. Either way is good. Go back into the same multiplayer DF (DogFight) server that you have been using, but this time select a base closer to the front (or as I said.. not) ..as in closer to the bases of the opposite color. Select your plane. Select a weapons load.... hit fly. Take off... go to the nearest enemy base and try to bomb it. The flak will be tough. Very tough. This practice will help you to learn how to take off with ordinance.. which if you set things up correctly should be different from a clean take off... it will help you to practice ground attack. It will help you to practice landing a damaged bird.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Hands On Phase Three</span>
Go into the QMB (Quick Mission Builder), set up a QM. For this first one make your enemies rookies and put them in inferior aircraft. Use all the enemy slots. Initially ONLY IN THE BEGINNING for this phase, go back to the difficulty screen and make yourself invulnerable. Do that until you start to get more hits... but be aware when you are getting hit and try to still avoid it. You will have unlimited ammo... but don't spray and pray. Now you can practice your air to air gunnery. Pay attention to how the bullets behave. The numbers in the icons are in kilometers.. so when you see a plane at .30.. that is 300 meters... the convergence number you set earlier. Don't shoot when they are too far away. When you get used to the 300 meter convergence then change it to 200-275. When you find yourself getting more accurate then change the conditions.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Hands On Phase Four</span>
Remove the invulnerability.... and instead of using all the enemy slots use just two. Keep them rookies and in inferior planes though. When you get comfortable with that or ready for the next level of challenge upgrade the enemy planes... maybe give yourself a wingman... you can go through that cycle until you are competent enough to at least handle yourself. AS you cycle up with upgrading the enemy planes upgrade their skill level too... add more... add more wingmen for yourself.

By that time you will be well on your way. If you do this over say... the next 7 to 28 days... depending on how fast you begin to feel it you should do better. I still have bad nights.. and I have been flying in this series for 6 years.

Lastly.... Hit the Sturmovik Essentials Link in my sig... lots of good stuff there. Particulaly Airwarfare.com and Mission4Today...

Also check out a few of the links below:
In Pursuit: An Online Pilot's Guide to Aerial Combat (http://web.comhem.se/%7Eu85627360/)
Neural Dream's Aircraft Reference Guide (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=316)
Hardball's Aircraft Viewer (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=325) an online version of the guide basically.. both are very good.
Uber Quick Mission Generator (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=367) - This tool will help you to create more diverse quick missions to practice with. It comes with an extensive help file and is pretty easy to use once you do it a few times.
Mission Mate (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=8) A mission building utility similar to The U.Q.M.G. but different. IMO both are good and deserving of a place on any FB simmers HD. I think MM is a bit easier to use.... but The UQMG has other features that make it a must have as well.... better to have and use both. You will never need the QMB again.
IL2 Manager 5.0 (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=355) This utility will allow you to make certain adjustments within the config file.. like graphics setting etc. on a gui. While it is highly recommended that you learn where these things are in the config file, once you know that... easy and quick is the way to go. It also has a stick editor which will allow you to set up different profiles for your joystick sensitivity settings.
IL2 Stab (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=1444) Similar to IL2 Manager but without the stick editor and with a Diary feature.
VAC (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=search)- Voice Activated Commands - This utility is very similar to SHOOT.. it allows you to interact with your PC and thus the sim with voice commands. Very useful in coops. A bit tricky.. but a good program.
Sniper's Corner (http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/SC_2_Eng.zip) a nice utility to help get the angles aspect of A2A gunnery in your head - Gunnery at AW.C (http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_fwgunnery.htm)-A good explanation of the tool and what is does. Also this entire section at AW.C is a really good resource.

ACM (http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/ACM.zip) - Short for Air Comabt Maneuvers - This program will show you a short video of various combat maneuvers.... yo yos, immelmans etc. It is a very useful tool.

There are tons more to be found here M4T Downloads (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=search) and some excellent guides on everything from setting up your hardware to mission building here AW.C guides (http://airwarfare.com/simnetwork/index.php)but I figured these were good starting points to get you on your way.

Welcome aboard... and enjoy. You came to the right place for questions. Continue to do so.

FlatSpinMan
03-16-2007, 06:45 AM
Welcome along, it was a good first post you made. What plane are you trying? As others have said, the Il2 is good to learn on. I learnt on the Hurricane mainly (although watch out for the engine cutting out when you dip the nose. Ones to avoid would probably be the P-39, Fw-190 and maybe the P47. The P-40 series are pretty steady rides.

I hope you enjoy iy and stick with it.
Cheers,
FSM

horseback
03-16-2007, 10:54 AM
One recommendation that I would make is to CHART your joystick/keyboard button/axis assignments and print it out in a large font.

The very act of thinking the assignments through and creating the chart will help you remember which button/key does what, and the chart, properly placed, will do the rest.

The other recommendation I will make is to practice without shooting at opposing aircraft. This means making use of the Quick Mission Builder (QMB) for solo flights, and getting accustomed to one specific aircraft, preferably a forgiving one. I'd suggest a P-40E for the Allies and the Bf 109F-4 for the Axis side. Smolensk has a nice map, if you remember to turn off the AAA (flak) option.

Both are forgiving and easy to fly, although the P-40 will need rudder and elevator trim assigned, and the 109 will require the use of elevator trim (German fighters rarely had rudder trim).

You don't need to land or takeoff in a QMB, and I would skip it until you feel comfortable just flying around, turning and banking and using your rudder input properly (the X52 has a twist rudder input; it takes a bit of practice to get the hang of it in this game). The key is making smooth coordinated movements with your ailerons, elevator and rudder.

Hope this helps. Just take your time and explore a bit. Pretty soon you too, can be whining about the FMs and the AI with authority and conviction.

cheers

horseback

Xiolablu3
03-16-2007, 01:24 PM
YOu need speed/energy in order to carry out a turn.

Pulling a turn which is too hard bleeds lots of speed/energy.

When you run out of speed/energy but are still pulling a hard turn, the plane will stall/snap roll.

EIther pick a plane which doesnt stall so easily like the Spitfire IX or the Zero or just try to gauge when the stall is ghoing to happen.

You can 'feel' when a plane is about to stall and you are pulling too hard, you will start to feel buffeting and the noise of 'scraping air' (if you get what I mean). When this happens loosen off your turn.

Remember that you need speed to carry out hard manouvres in a WW2 planes. You cannot simply point the nose at the sky and fly straight up, WW2 planes dont have the power to do this, you will keep going up as long as you have speed/energy, but then will drop.

Try to think of youre plane as a glider with a little engine. Gain speed and try not to pull hard turns when you dont have to and not to bleed off your speed.

Its all about energy/speed management.

Like I said, pick a SPitfire IX and pratise with that. The Spitfire is one of the beginner friendly planes in real life and it is so in the game too. Get used to the 'feel' of the plane and learn to gauge when you are yanking too hard in a turn http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

A list of planes going from BEginner friendly too very tough :-

Spitfire IX/Zero
La5 series
Bf109F4/BF109G2
Yak9/Yak3
Ki84
Wildcat/Hellcat
P38
P47
Tempest
FW190/P51

Zeus-cat
03-16-2007, 10:04 PM
I am putting together a training campaign that I hope to have finished in a few days. It will use the SBD-3 (an aircraft that is in 1946 and Pacific Fighters stand alone).

The campaign will be called "Straight From the Farm" and assumes you know very little about flying. You will start you off with simple takeoffs and progress to carrier operations. Look for it at Mission4today in a few days.