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adarwinter
03-04-2008, 02:16 AM
hey everyone.
my friend went to celebrate his GF's b-day in a vecation and left his 360 with me to play AC a bit. i am only in the beginning (just killed talal and now im in acre, going to kill that nice doctor) but i wanted to ask a few things about the fighting parts.

it seems like the combat system is simple yet pretty deep and even clever but it also seems like the AI doesnt use all the tools it is provided with.

it seems like if i hold the block button than i can have a cup of coffee and a light nap and when i come back i will still see altair and his attackers like nothing have changed.
in theory the enemies have a block-break move that removes my block and attack me but i only encountered this move a couple of times.
also when i get tossed (grabbed) by the enemies they never follow the toss with an attack so it doesnt really hurt me in any way...
whats the point, than?

the fighting mechanics are cool but seem like either unbalanced or miss used by the AI.
the only challenging AI i had fought was the templars and since they only come alone even they are not tough enaugh.

a - those who played AC a lot - what do u think about what i said?

b - will the enemies become any tougher later on? will i encounter more enemies that couter my attacks, grab me and deflect my blocks later on?

c - in richer districts there are tougher enemies. question is - will tougher enemies also roam the poor districts once u unlock the reach\medium district of a certain city? or will the tougher guards just stay in the rich\medium districts and never travel to other districts?

loveboof
03-04-2008, 07:10 AM
yeah the enemies do get tougher later on with more countering and blocking etc, and you fight more at one time (especially in the last level). I dont think there is much roaming between districts though.

That said, Altair is always a lot tougher than them and its not hard to slaughter 20 guards at a time without losing much or any health!

ST34LTH
03-04-2008, 04:03 PM
Ya, it does get harder and they will start countering you. they will also grab and throw you and yes they will deflect your blocks with the block break thing more often as you go on.

In addition to what loveboof said, it will still be easy to take on 20 guards. all you have to do is counter them and when they grab you, well counter that to and you will be fine.

adarwinter
03-04-2008, 04:32 PM
thanks for the answers, guys.

1) what would made this fighting combat much better was if enemies would very often break your defences, thus forcing u to stay "un-blocked" most of the time and only block when attacked. this means leaving more of the blocking job in the hands of your skills instead of just holding a button permanently.

i read in gamespot's guide that there are only 3 types of guards in each city - no helmets (easy), grey silver helmets (medium) and gold helmets (tough).
is that true? are the gold helmet guys are the toughest?
are they tougher than the templars?

i will probably wont get far on my friend's 360 but i will buy the PC version in april. i cross my fingers that ubisoft made the AIs more challenging in the PC version after hearing that the game is too easy.
though i wouldnt put my cents on it :/

2) also, how many templars are hiding in each city district? i only found 2 templars in the poor area of damascus. was that it?

loveboof
03-04-2008, 07:30 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I havent found all the templars yet (and probably wont at this stage), but there are 60 hiding over the whole kingdom.

I cant remember seeing different types of guards other than obvious captains of a certain group. I think the guards just generally get a bit tougher as you progress.

Like I said before though, you will probably find the end level quite hard.

adarwinter
03-05-2008, 09:04 AM
i dont want to be challenged just by the final level. i wanna be challenged in 60% of the game. the first 3 blocks i finished were very easy and everyone is saying the battles at the later parts are easy too.
i can press the block button and i will survive for a very very long time without any use of skill.
and the enemies DO have the defence break move but they hardly use it. if an enemy used the block-break move everytie i block for more than a second than blocking would have had to be used with good timing and with skill.
why isnt this the case??
do enemies start using the defence break move more often in the second half of the game or is it still very rare?

everyone agrees that since fighting 20 guards is so easy it makes escaping unnessessary. why would i run from a fight if fighting is so easy? as a matter of fact i tend to start street fights cuz they are fun and i want some challenge in my game.

personally i would prefer fighting against 3 challenging guards at a time than against 20
idiot guards like it is now.

also, dont u think that so many synch bars is not nessessary?
maybe just 8 or so could have been enaugh to make combat more challenging and forcing players to retreat or run away sometimes?

i really hope that the PC version will be harder and lessons from that will be learned.
if modding simple INI files will be possible to change the AIs behaviour and mod the game than prolly i (or someone else) could change this but i read in forums that there are no INI files in the PC version and no easy modding will be possible. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

loveboof
03-05-2008, 04:13 PM
yeah you definitely have a good point. The game isnt perfect - it is fairly easy, and the investigations can get a bit repetitive.

But, its still a great game! AC2 has huge potential if they work on some of the problems in the first one...

(I loved the game, which is why i'm still compelled to check these boards every now and then even though I completed it ages ago)

adarwinter
03-06-2008, 02:52 AM
now i have the 360's version and i am ×™olding myself by the nuts not to play it so i will buy the PC version and still have a lot of game to go through.

i read that some think that the PC version IS a little hard at times which makes me think that maybe ubisoft HAS done something with it.
or maybe those who play the pirated version just suck. i dunno.

the game could have been more challenging so easily - just tweak a few numbers measuring the probability of a guard using certain moves and limiting altair's health and that makes me wonder why they didnt. sure, it will make certain battles nearly impossible (i dont know what happens in the end but i read that its a huge fight were u cant run away from) but at least for those who finished the game once - give a higher difficulty level so there IS a point in the game where it is so hard that it requires a lot of skill AND some luck.

in a game like AC where u CAN run away from the fight, and there are actually mechanics that support and encourage running away, it isnt a bad thing to make battles so tough so u must run away to survive.
i kinda wish there was a cheat that makes all the guards everywhere become the elite guards of the city so there are no low-level guards around.

Malidictus
03-09-2008, 08:33 PM
Ponder this conundrum for a while - enemies only get challenging later in the game when they get and use Guard Breaks. But it isn't until pretty late in the game that you get your own Grab Break, and enemies will be grabbing you from pretty early on.

Furthermore, when looking for a challenge, confront the many Templars populating the land before you have all your gear back. They are basically maximum difficulty enemies and WILL ruin your day something fierce. They block a lot, parry even more, grab a lot and do a LOT of grab breaks. They also do a LOT of Guard Breaks that can be mis-interpreted as simply failing to counter-attack if you don't watch carefully. That's what Guard Breaks are for, though, to break through to turtling cowards. The guard break itself can be parried, but miss the parry and you're staring at the blade of an oncoming sword. Later still, you can dodge the follow-up attack, but it takes time to learn to do so.

Basically, the game isn't hard, but lots of hard enemies ARE a challenge, especially if you want it to look pretty. Yeah, you can put up your guard and go have a coffee. Then you can complain the game is boring, while you're at it. Or, you can watch your enemies, look at the once that have their guard down (their stance is different) and the ones taunting and attack them. Or you can pick an enemy and bang away at their blocks until you break through, watching for sneaky guards trying to interfere.

Want a greater challenge? Fight with the Hidden Blade. "But mister!" you say "I can't guard or block with the Hidden Blase, wouldn't I be making things needlessly harder?" The answer is no. With a sword you need to bang on your enemies like you were ringing a bell, but every stab with the hidden blade is instantly fatal. INSTANTLY. That Templar? Parry ONE attack and he's down for the count. That guy over there taunting? Stab him in the neck. That one over there? Grab him by the collar, toss him at a wall and then stab him in the kidneys as he's stumbling backwards. It turns long battles into short battles. Either you win fast or you die fast.

There's meat to be had in the combat system if you want to play around with it. If you want to just block and wait for a counter-kill, then yeah - it'll be boring. But hey, you have all of those other moves for a reason. Use 'em and show those guards you're a real master fighter, not some amateur relying on cheap tricks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

blarson11
03-09-2008, 09:09 PM
Altair is supposed to be that bad ***. He's trained to be a killer, and i daresay his training is far more extensive than any guard he comes up against. it makes sense that he can destroy enemies with ease. the templars, which are also extensively trained, you will notice, prove a much harder fight than regular guards.

RashenZ1980
03-09-2008, 09:21 PM
a - those who played AC a lot - what do u think about what i said?

***Nothing.***

b - will the enemies become any tougher later on? will i encounter more enemies that couter my attacks, grab me and deflect my blocks later on?

****Countinue stupid, only more skill like grab, guard break and counter but stupid****

c - in richer districts there are tougher enemies. question is - will tougher enemies also roam the poor districts once u unlock the reach\medium district of a certain city? or will the tougher guards just stay in the rich\medium districts and never travel to other districts?

***follow you***

and one more thing I want to ask is Talal or Tamir? I think 1st target is Tamir. Then...?

adarwinter
03-10-2008, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by Malidictus:
Ponder this conundrum for a while - enemies only get challenging later in the game when they get and use Guard Breaks. But it isn't until pretty late in the game that you get your own Grab Break, and enemies will be grabbing you from pretty early on.

Furthermore, when looking for a challenge, confront the many Templars populating the land before you have all your gear back. They are basically maximum difficulty enemies and WILL ruin your day something fierce. They block a lot, parry even more, grab a lot and do a LOT of grab breaks. They also do a LOT of Guard Breaks that can be mis-interpreted as simply failing to counter-attack if you don't watch carefully. That's what Guard Breaks are for, though, to break through to turtling cowards. The guard break itself can be parried, but miss the parry and you're staring at the blade of an oncoming sword. Later still, you can dodge the follow-up attack, but it takes time to learn to do so.

Basically, the game isn't hard, but lots of hard enemies ARE a challenge, especially if you want it to look pretty. Yeah, you can put up your guard and go have a coffee. Then you can complain the game is boring, while you're at it. Or, you can watch your enemies, look at the once that have their guard down (their stance is different) and the ones taunting and attack them. Or you can pick an enemy and bang away at their blocks until you break through, watching for sneaky guards trying to interfere.

Want a greater challenge? Fight with the Hidden Blade. "But mister!" you say "I can't guard or block with the Hidden Blase, wouldn't I be making things needlessly harder?" The answer is no. With a sword you need to bang on your enemies like you were ringing a bell, but every stab with the hidden blade is instantly fatal. INSTANTLY. That Templar? Parry ONE attack and he's down for the count. That guy over there taunting? Stab him in the neck. That one over there? Grab him by the collar, toss him at a wall and then stab him in the kidneys as he's stumbling backwards. It turns long battles into short battles. Either you win fast or you die fast.

There's meat to be had in the combat system if you want to play around with it. If you want to just block and wait for a counter-kill, then yeah - it'll be boring. But hey, you have all of those other moves for a reason. Use 'em and show those guards you're a real master fighter, not some amateur relying on cheap tricks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

good post, mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i do love those templars battles. they are more of what i wanted of the battles but not only that the templars are very rare, they also deplete. once i will kill all 50 of them i will no longer face a worthy opponent.
also they dont have a lot of health while I have around 13 bars of synch.

all that needed for the combat to be tough is enemies that use block-break much more often. this would have forced the players to mind when he is guarding and making the guarding\blocking a matter of skill is all that is missing from an otherwise a very realistic and satisfying combat system.

can u tell if later on (memory block 5 and above) the same enemies from earlier mem-block fight better? will i encounter more high-ranked guards in later missions? i love the tougher guards but i only see them once for every 10 idiot guards.

Malidictus
03-10-2008, 05:52 AM
can u tell if later on (memory block 5 and above) the same enemies from earlier mem-block fight better? will i encounter more high-ranked guards in later missions? i love the tougher guards but i only see them once for every 10 idiot guards.

You will. The Templars are a taste of what is to come, but eventually a LOT of guards start fighting like them. The second to last mission is essentially you fighting half a dozen groups of upwards of 10 soldiers all of around Templar strength, ending in a "battle to prove yourself," which is essentially one against 10 Templars, right down to the look and gear.

Once you reach Memory Block 7, the Kingdom becomes filled with huge platoons of elite soldiers that prove a worthy challenge, take my word for it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Sure, you can slaughter them off a horse, but they have this nasty habit of knocking you off your horse, or knocking your horse to the ground, especially if you're not careful. Furthermore, guards in cities become a lot better at chasing you, forming roadblocks that you can't tackle your way through.

You'll also start meeting a LOT of archers, though if you keep moving and stomach the annoyance, they're as dangerous to their allies as they are to you. Had a Templar perform a Guard Break on me, only to get shot in the back by an arrow and die http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Also, have you noticed that if you get into a fight with a Templar and guards at the same time, the guards will stand back and let the two of you fight it out? I think that's a very nice touch - let the elites fight it out, we shouldn't interfere, but if the assassin wins, we'll kill him anyway.

adarwinter
03-10-2008, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by Malidictus:


You will. The Templars are a taste of what is to come, but eventually a LOT of guards start fighting like them. The second to last mission is essentially you fighting half a dozen groups of upwards of 10 soldiers all of around Templar strength, ending in a "battle to prove yourself," which is essentially one against 10 Templars, right down to the look and gear.


that is some good news.

another question -
can i keep playing after i beat the game , watched the rolling credits and all?
(please, no spoilers. i do wanna enjoy the story).
will i be able to get back to the cities AFTER i finish the game and walk around, fighting groups of high level guards like u described or are these guards only available to fight against as a part of the later final assassinations?

Malidictus
03-10-2008, 08:58 AM
You can replay absolutely everything that takes part inside the Animus, though you have to play through memories in their entirety. For instance, if you start Memory 7, you need to complete your assassination before you're allowed into Arsuf. There's also no "Continue" in the Animus for replayed memories, so if you quit the game, you need to start the memory over from the beginning. However, if you happen to die or otherwise desynchronise, you'll "respawn" as normal. Just hope your power doesn't go out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Personally, what I do for a fun fight is replay memory 7, as the final memory doesn't allow you to free-roam, and then just pick fights in the Kingdom. Enemies there roam in enormous platoons and don't take much to provoke into action. Additionally, in Memory 7, a lot of them, oftentimes most, are elite soldiers, so they're really nasty. They're still not quite as fun as the battle at Arsuf, but they come close.

adarwinter
03-10-2008, 10:18 AM
thanks for your reply, malidictus http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
very helpful.

i reckon it would have seemed more... "fair" if it wasnt the numbers of soldiers u fight that make the game harder but rather keep the numbers low (like 1 vs 4) and make these 4 guys tougher.
as far as i can tell this isnt the case since enemies spawn around u in groups of about 5 or so where only 1 of them is elite while maybe a couple are tough guards and about 3 simple ones so the relations of morons-to-badasses is always the same.
am i currect?

1) now, i dont know what arsuf is, but (without spoiling the story) is it a village or a town that allow u to free roam like in the other places in AC or is it a linear mission which only concludes the story and u can just travel there and pick up fights?

2) another question - sometimes i see templars kinda chasing me when i make some ruckus, but i didnt remember walking near one and "waking it up".
question is - are there templars walking in the cities or are they only standing near their chests or fighting u at this second to last mission?

3) last question - is it just me or does the "defence break" move caused 2 synch bars in the 4th mem-block but only 1 in the 6th mem block?

4) is there a way to skip the 3 minutes long briefing in the beginning of every mem-block? if i want to replay mem block 5, for example, must i listen to al-mualim babble for 3 minutes before i get into the game?

Blaster1138
03-26-2008, 11:00 PM
my expectations must have been high because it fails to deliver what i thought was a godsend when i watched the trailer. Don't get me wrong, it does do the trailer some justice. let me just say that the view overlooking the cities was absolutely stunning. However the gameplay is a bit stale, and not very immersive in places. Where are the breath taking chase sequences, like i saw in the trailer? what would have been is, well, shallow gameplay. you can feel overwhelmed with the controls sometimes, like the frustration brought on by altier getting stuck on some object, like say a ladder, a box, or wall, while you have guards jumping at you. it can get very frantic sometimes. it's not very natural and fluid in someplaces, as in others, creating ridiculous obstacles. to be honest, i wouldn't have missed the combat, in favor of the player trying to outwit the enemies. you can evade enemies in very few ways, non of which are very creative. Hide in some of the most obvious places, hmmm... he definately wouldn't be in the hay. also, why do these guards have such athletic prowess that they can do almost as much as you. given they can't match your sprint speed, but they're only stooped by some of the most unclimable of objects, and it's near impossible to shake them. some examples of how the game could have been better is adding/replacing different features, why can't we make our moves at night, change clothes (hmm.. why would an assassin blatantly carry around weapons, especially when not one civilian has one, not even the informants, you're the only one that rides horses also, it's all very stand offish), or most obviously why not have counter-assassins after you, so you have to be on alert all the time. he can't use missle weapons, like the crossbow, he can't pick locks, he can't even hide bodies. I must say that some of the most memorable moments were when i unexpectedly ran into a patrol of guards. I criticize the combat, again, it's very repetetive, for the most part, and turn's into a major let down, mostly because you're often forced into combat situations with no means of escape. i wonder how many people would actually miss the combat, sure, it has a certain novelty the first couple of times, but quickly becomes irritating. The missions are very predictable as well, not much thought is put into planning your assassinations, as it's all predetermined, probally the most unintersting portion of the game is not being able to think for yourself, the investigations that reveal information on the targets get dull quick. I just wish it gave you more depth and realism, so that you might actually want to go back and play it again. Btw i would have gladly sacraficed the crazy almius dream machine subplot and the treasure of eden thing for more focus on altier being a bad ***. those sci-fi twists were only taking away from the games potential imo. there's one last thing that absolutely should have been left out, those freaking crazy and drunk guys that push you, and the beggars. i found it more refreshing assassinating them than the actual targets, whenever they couldn't be avoided that is.

Blaster1138
03-27-2008, 10:40 AM
Roses are red and violets are blue AC sucks and so do you!

AssassinsBomb
03-27-2008, 05:03 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
How immature.
And here's little me, with no game yet.
Soon tho!
And Blaster, don't start that massive 'Assassins Creed sucks so that means everyone one this forum does too!' thread again please.