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View Full Version : Look mom, no elevators!



mortoma
03-17-2006, 12:11 PM
I have had my elevators shot out quite a bit and can usually land back at my base, just have to be careful with throttle and flap management. This is no big deal and lots of people can do this. Even noobs do it. But the other night I felt squirrelly and after shooting down a He-111 and one of two IAR-80s that attacked my base, I got hit by the other IAR and lost elevator control. So after this AI pilot was flying back to base, I decided to chase him and try to shoot him down without my elevators. It was difficult because I had to go fast in order to catch him. If I went too fast I'd end up climbing too much and the plane would want to stall. I solved this by constantly rolling my Hurricane and was able to control altitude quite well doing this.

I eventually caught up with the IAR and found that hitting him was insanely difficult with no elevator control. But I solved this dilema by climbing with lot of throttle, lining up behind him and letting go with my guns just as the sight was just below his plane. I would also do the opposite on the way down. I eventually got him, after a while he just went in the ground after I hit him 3 or 4 times like this. He was probably a rookie or average skill level because he never attempted to evade, just flew straight on as if oblivious to his surroundings. Had he gone evasive I would never have had enough controlability to hit him. A couple of times I overshot him and got in front, had to get on his tail again.

I went back to land but had to do a go-around on the first attempt due to two bad bounces. I made
a fair landing the second attempt with two mild bounces. Three kills and one with no ellie!!
Along time ago I got a Hawk-75 flying a Russian P-47 with no elevator but bailed out, didn't land. So this was my second kill with no elevator. I real life I doubt it would be possible, no doubt nobody would have tried!! I am going to save that track forever, a very satisfying sortie I'd say.

foxyboy1964
03-17-2006, 12:32 PM
I agree...in RL no one would try and fight on in a damaged plane...I only ever do it in QMB, never in a campaign.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-17-2006, 01:12 PM
I got a kill with no engine, aileron or rudder!

(I posted a thread about this in the PF forum the other week)

It was on one of the RAAF New Guinea campaigns, in a P40, during one of the 'Air Raid! Scramble!' type missions

Anyway I was in a long climbing turn over the airfield when I flew into a cloud, and flew out of the cloud again to find myself literally parked on the tail of a rather disgruntled G4M. Of course the thing proceeded to filled my kite with holes. I was less than impressed by this, dropped my flaps and shot all the ammo out of my now engineless, rudderless and aileronless 'Hawk in the direction of the rapidly disappearing bomber, and as it happened, enough of the "0.50 fire found its way into the Betty's wing root to cause a rather satisfying inferno

I brought my kite down for a deader-than-usual-stick belly-landing (was a bit too close to the ground when I decided to lower my undercart and I bottomed out before it had extended very far) and was rewarded not long after with the 'ENEMY AIRCRAFT DESTROYED' message

mortoma
03-17-2006, 05:00 PM
Can't say I ever got that lucky, but I did manage to get a Me-109G6 back over the front lines once after having all three controls taken out. I just experimented with throttle settings and I got to where I could psuedo-steer it. Got it going the right way and bailed once I was far enough inside the lines.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-17-2006, 05:04 PM
That's awesome! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

mortoma
03-17-2006, 05:28 PM
In real life I doubt you could land most planes with no elevator. Since most planes it would droop/sag on you, especially once you got very slow for a landing. An Alaska Airlines MD-83 lost it's elevator control and crashed into the Pacific ocean. With most big planes the elevator is controled by an electric motor running a jack scew up and down. So if you lose that your elevator gets stuck wherever it was when the system broke.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-17-2006, 06:00 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232

FI-Aflak
03-17-2006, 11:44 PM
I've gotten kills after the tail of my airplane has been ripped off by cannon fire (the lucky "hey, look what's about to cross my gunsight!" kill).

I enjoy landing crippled birds. I took a 109 down once with a struggling engine and only the rudder to work with. it was a thing of beauty.

Wow. At the end of the wiki article they have the transcript of the cockpit recordings. helluva read.

Waldo.Pepper
03-17-2006, 11:50 PM
I got a kill ON LINE against a HUMAN in my plane which had lost elevator and rudder control during a head on pass.

The-Pizza-Man
03-18-2006, 12:12 AM
A DHL Airbus got hit by a manpad taking off from bhagdad. It's entire hydraulic system was knocked out. The crew landed safely using only the engines to control pitch, yaw and roll. It was the first time a big jet has ever been brought down safely using only the engines for control.

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/DHL_SAM_attack1.asp

They have fly-by-wire systems now that can land a jet using only the engines in the case of hydraulics failure. The DHL crew did it all by hand though.

rnzoli
03-18-2006, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by The-Pizza-Man:
A DHL Airbus got hit by a manpad taking off from bhagdad. It's entire hydraulic system was knocked out. The crew landed safely using only the engines to control pitch, yaw and roll. It was the first time a big jet has ever been brought down safely using only the engines for control.
The second. The Sioux City incident was claiming lives due to the phugoid oscillation coming at the wrong time, but the crew saved more than hundred doomed life anyway. That's an incredible success in the books.

Originally posted by The-Pizza-Man:
They have fly-by-wire systems now that can land a jet using only the engines in the case of hydraulics failure.
In theory yes, but not installed on commerical jetliners.

rnzoli
03-18-2006, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by SnapdLikeAMutha:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232

I have read the transcript of a speech by captain Al Haynes on an aviation safety symposium. He started saying that it was a really lucky day for them, when they crashed. And he argues for it convincingly. Incredible read, really explains what was going on in the cocpit and why. If someone is interested I will try to find the link.

major_setback
03-18-2006, 04:16 AM
http://www.filemagazine.com/thecollection/archives/images/escalator.jpg

Nick_Toznost
03-18-2006, 10:59 AM
Online last night, I managed to down a Mustang in a seriously damaged B25 with no elevators or ailerons plus with an engine on fire using the forward firing guns.

It was a fluke really, it wandered across my gunsight while I was trying to make an emergency landing. I still hit the ground first though but I couldn't help feeling slightly smug.

Viper2005_
03-18-2006, 12:26 PM
The Bf-109Z can do some very interesting things without elevators. In fact I have a track of a takeoff and circuit flown with one of the fuselages missing just aft of the cockpit, and no horizontal stabiliser or elevator whatsoever.

I actually managed to score several kills after the loss of the boom; the AI assumed I was dead and made no attempt to evade! It was a hoot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

mortoma
03-18-2006, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
The Bf-109Z can do some very interesting things without elevators. In fact I have a track of a takeoff and circuit flown with one of the fuselages missing just aft of the cockpit, and no horizontal stabiliser or elevator whatsoever.

I actually managed to score several kills after the loss of the boom; the AI assumed I was dead and made no attempt to evade! It was a hoot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Maybe that's what happened to me then?? That IAR-80 did not pay any attention to me after it killed my elevator. There may be something in the game codes that says "you're dead" just because your elevator is no longer functioning. Makes sense, since it's a fact that the AI can't fly with any of the flight controls missing. They crash every time if they get their elevators or such shot out. The game code apparently "assumes" you are going to crash or at least can't fight also.

Zoom2136
03-18-2006, 02:11 PM
Got a kill in a dogfight (in Warclouds) after I had lost control of my ailerons... Kept with him (Bf-109) for a good 30-40 sec twisting and turning before I got the kill. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

russ.nl
03-18-2006, 04:07 PM
I have a track of me landing a spit without rudder and elevator control but when I replay the track I can see the elevator still move a little.
Wierd http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

dravisar
03-18-2006, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by SnapdLikeAMutha:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_232

Thanks a bunch for that link...the transcript of the flight recorder during the landing procedure was awesome...that pilot had a hell of a sense of humor, and did a fantastic job!

Scary stuff though! commercial flights always get me nervous.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-18-2006, 08:56 PM
"In subsequent reconstructions of the circumstances of the accident in flight simulators, no pilot of any seniority has succeeded in reproducing Fitch's achievement of maneuvering the aircraft as far as the runway, generally losing control in mid air."

THAT is the fact which always stands out most prominently whenever I read that