View Full Version : "Cine Gun" on Spit IXb?

02-21-2006, 04:30 PM
Slightly OT but:

I recently acquired a General Report/Combat in the Air Report dated 27 September 1944 signed by a Spitfire IXB pilot named F/L D.C. Laubman from No. 412 (RCAF) Squadron where he states that he used not only the Gyro Gun Sight but the €œCine Gun€ as well. Does anyone know what that means? Is it a slang term for something. I have never heard of it before. Any help would be appreciated.

For those that care the entire verbatim report is below:

Date: 27th September 1944
Squadron: 412
Type and Mark of Aircraft: Spitfire IXB
Time Up and Down: 0728 €" 0930
Place of Attack: N.E. and W. of Nijmegen
Height of E/A on First Sighting: 6,000€
Our Height on First Sighting: 5,000€
Our Casualties: NIL
Enemy Casualties: 2 ME 109€s DESTROYED
(Confirmed 2 TAF Log 99)


1st Combat
€œI was flying Blue 1 with 412 Squadron on a low patrol near Nijmegen when I sighted a ME 109 flying east at the base of cloud. I gave chase and took two bursts at 250-300 yards from below and saw strikes on both occasions. The E/A then broke and after a short chase I took another burst at 150 yards making a port attack at 20 degrees and saw more strikes. The aircraft streamed glycol and his engine seemed to quit. I chased him down to the ground and fired a long burst from slightly above at about 100 yards range. I saw many strikes and the aircraft flicked into the ground and exploded.€

2nd Combat
€œAfter the first aircraft pranged I looked around and saw a ME 109 coming in behind me. I broke 360 degrees and came around on his tail. I closed to 200 yards and fired a long burst of cannon and M.G. I saw many strikes on the aircraft €" exploded and caught fire. The aircraft then drove straight into the ground and exploded.

I used Cine Gun and Gyro Gun Sight

I claim 2 ME 109€s DESTROYED

(Sgd) D.C. Laubman F/L
No. 412 (RCAF) Squadron

(Sqd) G. Panchuck F/L
M. Berger F/L
Senior Intelligence Officer
No. 126 Wing (RCAF) HQ

Additionally there was another document (undated) stapled to the back that lists pilots with €œ10 victories or more€ and €œLeading Night and Intruder Pilots w/seven or more victories€

The later list credits W/C R. Bannock DSO, DFC and Bar with 11 Des. €" 4 Prob. €" and 19 V-1s

IMO the second document is a better €œread€. Just my thoughts.

Semper Fi

02-21-2006, 04:34 PM
"Cine gun" or "camera gun" on Spitfires was just "gun camera" in British parlance.

They did it especially, just to confuse people on internet forums 65 years later on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

02-21-2006, 04:35 PM
guess it means he used the guncamera to record the destruction..

i think they could also press a button to record when not firing

02-21-2006, 04:47 PM
Just checking my RAF fighter claims and it seems that the RAF, and particularly 412 squadron, had a busy day on the 27th of September. 412 flew 3 sorties over the Market Garden battle area, encountering opposition in every sortie.

Claims by 412 Squadron were for 14 destroyed, 1 probably destroyed and 6 damaged, with pilot 2 losses. Total claims for the day were 44:4:19 against 18 fighter and 13 pilots lost.

A 416 Spitfire IX pilot claimed damage to a Me-262 with a 3-4 second burst with cannon and machine guns. It was seen pulling away with "greyish black smoke coming from both his engines". Strikes were observed on the fuselage.

02-21-2006, 05:40 PM

Thanks for the update.

"They did it especially, just to confuse people on internet forums 65 years later on"

- Classic!


02-21-2006, 11:03 PM
funny timing...just finished a great, great book called "All the FineYoung Eagles - in the cockpit with Canada's Second World War Fighter Pilots"

In the book, Laubman talks about his first encounter with the enemy, a 109. He stalks the 109, lines it up at 200 hundred yards and presses the firing button. NOTHING. Tries again, and nothing again.
He breaks off and heading home over the channel he realizes "I had pressed the camera button instead of the gun button".

I had always assumed that the camera was linked/sync'ed to the guns, but apparently not.

Maybe his log book notes meant he was pressing both fire and camera button?

Great find btw. He was the highest scoring ace of the 2TAF, with 14 1/2 of his 15 kills coming after D-Day.