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View Full Version : German Focke Wulf Ace: "The allies were smart....



MEGILE
07-29-2005, 08:59 AM
".. they knew the Focke Wulf's weakness and they could exploit them. Whenever we got on their six they would push over into negative Gs... and hide behind the cockpit bar. So in 1942 Kurt came up with a solution... the cockpit bar was removed.
After this, my kills jumped 5 fold" - Hans Grueber, JG69 Focke Wulf ACE (5 kills)

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8504/nockpitbar5zr.jpg

wayno7777
07-29-2005, 09:07 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Daiichidoku
07-29-2005, 09:22 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif


later is was discovered that a russian worker was sabotaging the 190s, by placing the bar there and convincing everyone it was normal....


they used a captured .50 cal to execute him, but ran out of ammo before it could actually put enuff hits on him to kill

faustnik
07-29-2005, 09:45 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Post of the year!

JaguarMEX
07-29-2005, 09:59 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

MEGILE
07-29-2005, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by JaguarMEX:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Indeed. Two questions remain. Why did Kurt put it there in the first place, and why didn't he remove it sooner.

carguy_
07-29-2005, 10:26 AM
The windshield is so thick that a physical phenomenon called refraction made the bar almost invisible.We had a thread proving it long ago.

faustnik
07-29-2005, 10:34 AM
The bar provided additional pilot protection from .50 rounds deflecting off the engine cowling. Return fire from Allied heavy bombers often often caused this. The bar, placed at the critical angle, saved many pilot's lives. There are rumors of an enlarged bar rustsatz kits (R22) that pilots could even more easily hide behind. I'm hoping that Oleg will model this option along with a "duck" key so you can hide from .50 fire.

MEGILE
07-29-2005, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by carguy_:
The windshield is so thick that a physical phenomenon called refraction made the bar almost invisible.We had a thread proving it long ago.

Frankie says RELAX!

I know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Kocur_
07-29-2005, 11:46 AM
"And later on, to increase protection bar provided, a technological improvement was intoduced. They removed steel bars and replaced them with new ones, made of plywood, recovered from those very few soviet planes Fw-190's were able to shoot down ("R22 n.A"). That was the real reason to delete 20mm cannon in B-29's, as US intelligence realised the cannons would be useless against those new bars.
Removing of bars was considered in A9, as those were to receive wooden propeller blades, made of course of the same soviet plywood. Not only it offered ultimate protection for pilot and the engine, unique aerodynamical properties of soviet plywood were discovered. It was now obvious what made German 1900, 2050, 2100 and even 2240ps less than soviet 1850ps. (Un)fortunately in that late stage of war Luftwaffe fighters werent able to shoot soviet fighters anymore, as they all were La-7 3xB-20's, Yak-3P's, Yak-9U's and until then kept in secret I-185's, and the ordinary wood was used. So enlarged R22 bars and few R22 n.A bars were still being mounted."

"The only correct, real history of WW2 military aviation"

So I see no reason for Oleg to remove the bar. Sorry guys.

MEGILE
07-29-2005, 12:22 PM
A delta wood resist 20mm. I have proofs!

Fehler
07-29-2005, 12:23 PM
Kurt knew that superior Aryan pilots were being bread with X-Ray vision, thus no reason to remove the bar.

On a serious note... I just watched a program about the Fokker DR-1 and the Spowith Camel of WWII. They said that the biggest two problems with the DR-1 were 1.) It's visibility around the 3 wings and 2.) The amount of drag caused by these wings.

It was much better than a Camel in the climb (Lots of lift) and more maneuverable (Lots of wing area) and much more sturdy (No external wire framing) But it was the visibility that was it's demise.

I guess Germans just never liked seeing out of their planes... hehe

Kocur_
07-29-2005, 12:35 PM
Sorry guys! I edited my above post. At first I wrote what I remembered from that exellent, rare book but I decided to use quotation. Those annoying "cadre of idiotsā"ž¢" luftwhinners would sure demand proofs, instead of just beliving what they see and being happy with it, so I gave one.

jugent
07-29-2005, 03:17 PM
I have read that Oleg got the cockpit view from the FW from an museum where the wrong sight was put into the FW cockpit.
This wrong sight wasnt attached properly and that is why the fell of so easy in the earlier patches.
The Me 109 got, and still gets the windshiels smeared with oil.
The Fw lost it sight but that dont happend so frequent nowdays.
It will be the day when the butcher bird will get its true behaviour in this game.
Read what Jonnie Jonsson writes about it in his book.

Jumo_211
07-29-2005, 04:06 PM
just proves that idiots have far too small knobs

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

MEGILE
07-29-2005, 05:23 PM
You never heard of the famous 5 kill ace "Hans Greuber" ?!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Hristo_
07-29-2005, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
You never heard of the famous 5 kill ace "Hans Greuber" ?!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

He still flies on WarClouds server.

faustnik
07-29-2005, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
You never heard of the famous 5 kill ace "Hans Greuber" ?!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

I think he went into high rise crime after the war.

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/HansGrueber.bmp

MEGILE
07-29-2005, 05:46 PM
Yippee Kayay.. mazar faka

No bullets.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

faustnik
07-29-2005, 05:49 PM
If Bruce Willis was a P-38 pilot, he would have owned Hans Gruber and his Fw190.

FritzGryphon
07-29-2005, 05:58 PM
It's worth noting that the Shockwave FW190 has the forward view correct, proving that there is nothing preventing it from being correctly modeled. The crosshair (though painted on) is not obstructed.

http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon3/fwfore.jpg

Unlike Oleg saying that refraction faking would be too hard, for some reason. They had no problem. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

MEGILE
07-29-2005, 06:30 PM
That cockpit is wrong. The bar hasn't been modelled.

carguy_
07-29-2005, 07:09 PM
Oleg better model FW cockpit in BoB same like in IL2 or no one will ever believe him if he denies something AND thinks his cockpit is a ok.Although since 6DOF will be implemented this doesm`t make a ny difference.

Hoarmurath
07-29-2005, 07:35 PM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
It's worth noting that the Shockwave FW190 has the forward view correct, proving that there is nothing preventing it from being correctly modeled. The crosshair (though painted on) is not obstructed.

http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon3/fwfore.jpg

Unlike Oleg saying that refraction faking would be too hard, for some reason. They had no problem. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Well, this cockpit is much less accurate than the one we have in FB. It can hardly be considered as a reference.

LStarosta
07-29-2005, 08:13 PM
Yeah, the color of the trim is off...

Pirschjaeger
07-29-2005, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JaguarMEX:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Indeed. Two questions remain. Why did Kurt put it there in the first place, and why didn't he remove it sooner. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe this explains his double income. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
07-29-2005, 08:26 PM
Has anyone ever wondered why our virtual selves are invisible until we jump out of the cockpit?

How hard is it to model feet, legs, arms, hands, and a beer belly?


Fritz

han freak solo
07-29-2005, 09:31 PM
Shockwave is wrong. This is the remodelled bar coming out in patch 4.oh_whenever.

It is code named "mini-bar".

http://www.lssdigital.com/FW190bar.jpg

Pirschjaeger
07-29-2005, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
Shockwave is wrong. This is the remodelled bar coming out in patch 4.oh_whenever.

It is code named "mini-bar".

http://www.lssdigital.com/FW190bar.jpg

Ha ha ha, forget the " coffee all over my monitor", it was almost oatmeal through my nose! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Sorry, no track to offer. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Fritz

p1ngu666
07-29-2005, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Fehler:
Kurt knew that superior Aryan pilots were being bread with X-Ray vision, thus no reason to remove the bar.

On a serious note... I just watched a program about the Fokker DR-1 and the Spowith Camel of WWII. They said that the biggest two problems with the DR-1 were 1.) It's visibility around the 3 wings and 2.) The amount of drag caused by these wings.

It was much better than a Camel in the climb (Lots of lift) and more maneuverable (Lots of wing area) and much more sturdy (No external wire framing) But it was the visibility that was it's demise.

I guess Germans just never liked seeing out of their planes... hehe

on landing pilots would aprently haveto look behind! to see the ground http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif, the middle wing gets in the way.

and its not a triplane, theres a extra wing between the wheels http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

and it was inspired by the sopwith triplane i think http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Pirschjaeger
07-29-2005, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fehler:
Kurt knew that superior Aryan pilots were being bread with X-Ray vision, thus no reason to remove the bar.

On a serious note... I just watched a program about the Fokker DR-1 and the Spowith Camel of WWII. They said that the biggest two problems with the DR-1 were 1.) It's visibility around the 3 wings and 2.) The amount of drag caused by these wings.

It was much better than a Camel in the climb (Lots of lift) and more maneuverable (Lots of wing area) and much more sturdy (No external wire framing) But it was the visibility that was it's demise.

I guess Germans just never liked seeing out of their planes... hehe

on landing pilots would aprently haveto look behind! to see the ground http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif, the middle wing gets in the way.

and its not a triplane, theres a extra wing between the wheels http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

and it was inspired by the sopwith triplane i think http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Imagine if Von Richthofen had had a P-51. He would have been a one man Luftwaffe. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Fritz

jarink
07-29-2005, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Imagine if Von Richthofen had had a P-51. He would have been a one man Luftwaffe. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Fritz

Imagine George Peppard with a Butcher Bird. He would owned Manfred.
http://www.wfa-usa.org/new/jpg/bluemax2.jpg
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsly0so/jpg/bluemax.jpg

Pirschjaeger
07-30-2005, 12:02 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

IVJG51_Swine
07-30-2005, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
Shockwave is wrong. This is the remodelled bar coming out in patch 4.oh_whenever.

It is code named "mini-bar".

http://www.lssdigital.com/FW190bar.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

IVJG51_Swine
07-30-2005, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by jarink:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
Imagine if Von Richthofen had had a P-51. He would have been a one man Luftwaffe. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Fritz

Imagine George Peppard with a Butcher Bird. He would owned Manfred.


http://www.wfa-usa.org/new/jpg/bluemax2.jpg
http://users.tpg.com.au/adsly0so/jpg/bluemax.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gotta love the Blue Max!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
07-30-2005, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
It's worth noting that the Shockwave FW190 has the forward view correct, proving that there is nothing preventing it from being correctly modeled. The crosshair (though painted on) is not obstructed.

http://members.shaw.ca/evilgryphon3/fwfore.jpg

Unlike Oleg saying that refraction faking would be too hard, for some reason. They had no problem. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

That must be the post 42 cockpit and, thus, correct then. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Imagine that! Even prior to Tank's removal of the cockpit bar, the 190 ruled the skies in the ETO-WF, shooting down Spitfires all over the show.

I think Tank made a mistake - he should have left the bar in http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ta,
Norris

Ankanor
07-30-2005, 04:33 AM
Blasphemy!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Pig_Mac
07-30-2005, 03:51 PM
funniest thread so far =P. the captured .50 almost made me fall out of my sofa sober

Badsight.
07-30-2005, 04:40 PM
the pic in the first post is the view the FW-190 should have been given since the begining

its what those infamous threads were on about

a small concession so unwilling to have been made for the FB Fock Wulf

MEGILE
07-30-2005, 04:47 PM
Turned out quite well I think, for MS Paint.


Maybe in BoB. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

triggerhappyfin
07-31-2005, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by IVJG51_Swine:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by han freak solo:
Shockwave is wrong. This is the remodelled bar coming out in patch 4.oh_whenever.

It is code named "mini-bar".

http://www.lssdigital.com/FW190bar.jpg
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I dont want it removed..*burp*.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Heliopause
07-31-2005, 11:14 AM
I love it when a plan comes together....

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/heliopause/bluemax2.jpg

Grue_
07-31-2005, 12:50 PM
The bar was actually the top of a shield put there to stop the pilots getting worried.

As soon as danger approached the shield rose up the screen thus preventing the pilots from seeing anything perilous.

Kocur_
07-31-2005, 01:56 PM
But why do we have it in half up position? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif