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View Full Version : Hi speed aproach, deceleration and landing.



munnst
10-20-2004, 09:22 AM
Hi.

Read a thread about not being able to decelerate easily to land in some aircraft in Il2. Some say this is a bug (?) but as all good pilots know a plane is like your wife, you learn to live with her bad points :-). It's rearly not an option to chop throttle, dump everything and expect instant deceleration. The Lancaster, for example, was notorious for `floating` down the runway seemingly not wanting to touch. Think of your IL2 aircraft as having similar qualities.

So I thought you might find it useful to know how real world pilots, and myself simming, are able to decelerate and land correctly.

Okay, worse case scenario. Approaching the field (or carrier) at 500knots, 500m, clean.

Radio tower for run and break :-). Pass over field and chop throttle to 30% (maybe less). Climb to 1000 - 1500m and turn onto the runway heading. Speed is now probably 300knots @ 1500m.

Now, I have several options. 90 degree turn bleeding yet more speed and enter the pattern. Or I can extend and enter a wider pattern. In this example I'm down to 250 knots so I'll enter the pattern and perform another 90 degree turn to downwind maybe adding some flap.

Now my aim will be to reduce speed down to about 160knots with two notches of flap and gear down while descending downwind. I can extend if needs be to bleed speed or height before turning finals.

Now, turning onto finals I add full flap and manage my speed keeping the aircraft 10, 15 knots above stall and managing the descent rate. Adding / removing power or pitch to compensate.

Lined up with the runway, cleared to land. Constantly juggling that airspeed and sink rate. On a carrier I want to be as near to stall as possible so I'm juggling even harder.

To high on approach, could try a side slip or reducing power to increase sink. To far from runway add power etc.

Decision time. If I look good I commit, if I look bad then it's a go around and back into the circuit (note: a good pilot will go around if not happy with his approach, a bad pilot will try and land). A go around has the advantage that I'm already slow so the next circuit can be on the money. Land to fast and it's bouncy bouncy time.

Crossing the piano keys, throttle to 0% and gently flare for that classic three pointer making sure I fly all the way down the runway until she is taxying. Carriers, well I'm slow and flat and want to flare in the three pointer right on the wires. Didn't catch then it's full power and climb away back into the circuit. Although real carrier pilots got a `wave off` before they commited to a potentially fatal bad landing (jets can power round, prop jobs not as easy).

Hope that's useful. I have great fun in IL2 flying the circuit and practising my approaches.

Have fun.

Dog.

munnst
10-20-2004, 09:22 AM
Hi.

Read a thread about not being able to decelerate easily to land in some aircraft in Il2. Some say this is a bug (?) but as all good pilots know a plane is like your wife, you learn to live with her bad points :-). It's rearly not an option to chop throttle, dump everything and expect instant deceleration. The Lancaster, for example, was notorious for `floating` down the runway seemingly not wanting to touch. Think of your IL2 aircraft as having similar qualities.

So I thought you might find it useful to know how real world pilots, and myself simming, are able to decelerate and land correctly.

Okay, worse case scenario. Approaching the field (or carrier) at 500knots, 500m, clean.

Radio tower for run and break :-). Pass over field and chop throttle to 30% (maybe less). Climb to 1000 - 1500m and turn onto the runway heading. Speed is now probably 300knots @ 1500m.

Now, I have several options. 90 degree turn bleeding yet more speed and enter the pattern. Or I can extend and enter a wider pattern. In this example I'm down to 250 knots so I'll enter the pattern and perform another 90 degree turn to downwind maybe adding some flap.

Now my aim will be to reduce speed down to about 160knots with two notches of flap and gear down while descending downwind. I can extend if needs be to bleed speed or height before turning finals.

Now, turning onto finals I add full flap and manage my speed keeping the aircraft 10, 15 knots above stall and managing the descent rate. Adding / removing power or pitch to compensate.

Lined up with the runway, cleared to land. Constantly juggling that airspeed and sink rate. On a carrier I want to be as near to stall as possible so I'm juggling even harder.

To high on approach, could try a side slip or reducing power to increase sink. To far from runway add power etc.

Decision time. If I look good I commit, if I look bad then it's a go around and back into the circuit (note: a good pilot will go around if not happy with his approach, a bad pilot will try and land). A go around has the advantage that I'm already slow so the next circuit can be on the money. Land to fast and it's bouncy bouncy time.

Crossing the piano keys, throttle to 0% and gently flare for that classic three pointer making sure I fly all the way down the runway until she is taxying. Carriers, well I'm slow and flat and want to flare in the three pointer right on the wires. Didn't catch then it's full power and climb away back into the circuit. Although real carrier pilots got a `wave off` before they commited to a potentially fatal bad landing (jets can power round, prop jobs not as easy).

Hope that's useful. I have great fun in IL2 flying the circuit and practising my approaches.

Have fun.

Dog.

darkhorizon11
10-20-2004, 01:47 PM
Good tips. Forward slip works best to lose altitude quickly although you will gain a few extra knots. The key is descent planning. Remember the carrier is moving too ussually 25kts or so?? So you have to subtract that from your TAS to get your landing speed.

One more thing, I don't know about WW2 but in modern times carrier pilots always aim for the 3rd wire.

Fliger747
10-20-2004, 02:47 PM
Good tips! Moderatly high G turns are great for bleeding energy. IRL fine prop pitch (high RPM) is a great brake, dunno how well this is modeled in the sim). Slipping was just about never used high horsepower Naval aircraft, except for a slight slip sometimes to keep the LSO in sight. Gear and flaps, in that order are the biggest drag producers. Cowl flaps add drag as well. In the KC 97 prototype, open cowl flaps could amount to 50% of the total drag of the plane in a climb!

Whatever the drag charcteristics of your plane turn out to be, learn to live with them and learn energy managment (give enough space).

look'n forward!

TX-EcoDragon
10-20-2004, 03:01 PM
Sounds like ya got a bead on it!

Hopefully it works like that in PF!