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View Full Version : Which way are rudder pedals supposed to work?



Worf101
10-12-2004, 02:17 PM
I've been trying to get used to rudder pedals in a HOTAS set up. Which way did they work historically? Depress left pedal to swing tail left or vice versa. I'm confused, I've seen games do it the exact opposite of one another, which did they work or did that very with the plane?

Da Worfster

F16_Fatboy
10-12-2004, 02:26 PM
Make it easy for yourself and pan down to have a look at how the virtual pedals in your cockpit moves as you press the pedals. Press right and plane turns right and vice versa.

FLSTF

nickdanger3
10-12-2004, 03:41 PM
Worf, so glad you asked this question since I just got some pedals myself and had the same exact question but I was too embarrassed to ask...wait a minute...er, I mean what Fatboy said.

Lateralus_14
10-12-2004, 03:51 PM
Depressing the left pedal swings the tail to the right which yaws the nose to the left. Depressing the right one swings the tail to the left and the plane yaws right.

WTE_Galway
10-12-2004, 05:45 PM
don't worry a lot of real time student pilots get it confused as well

especially if as children they drove "soapbox" or "billy cart" style toys as those things work the oposite to an aircraft


press the pedal in the direction you want the nose to go .. if trying to balance the ball press the pedal on the side the ball is sitting

TheGozr
10-12-2004, 07:45 PM
just think that you drive a bike with your feet.

like a handle bar...

WTE_Galway
10-12-2004, 09:52 PM
Wrong Gozr

if you rode a bike with your feet you would turn left when pushing with your right foot

aircraft rudder bars work totally opposite to handlebars .. right pedal means yaw right

TheGozr
10-12-2004, 11:14 PM
On a bike at speed pushing the right side make the bike tilt toward the right turning the wheel lightly to the left.. this make the bike turn right when pushing Right.

This is a technic we use in every day racing Motorcycles .
Technic used as well on hight speed controls motorcycles physics and many crashes by failure of doing so..

Tully__
10-13-2004, 02:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Wrong Gozr

if you rode a bike with your feet you would turn left when pushing with your right foot
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please please please let me be there when you demonstrate that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I want to see your face when you try it (I've been riding motorbikes for 20 years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

keithb77
10-13-2004, 06:03 AM
Surely if you sat on the bike (facing forwards) with your feet on the handlebars then
" you would turn left when pushing with your right foot" is correct?

In real life I flew a Cessna 152 recently, whilst flying use of the rudder pedals was easy and natural, but taxying with just the pedals alone required lots of concentration to not press the wrong pedal!

Cheers,
Keith

Bearcat99
10-13-2004, 06:33 AM
When I got my pedals I just looked in the cockpit and set mine up according to what the virtual pedals did.

T_O_A_D
10-13-2004, 07:35 AM
Take up a P-39 or another US aircraft they all have a real good slip gauge, with a ball that floats. When you fly you want the ball to stay in the middle for most efficient flight. If its on the right side of the line step on right pedal to move it back to center and vice versa. They call it "Stepping on the Ball" If its all set up properly when you step right the noze goes right and vice versa.

B16Enk
10-13-2004, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Wrong Gozr

if you rode a bike with your feet you would turn left when pushing with your right foot
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please please please let me be there when you demonstrate that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I want to see your face when you try it (I've been riding motorbikes for 20 years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm with you on that Tully, 'biking for 27 years myself.

Gozr has it spot on, although I think the technical term is 'counter steer'. Is most certainly counter-intuitive.

I demonstrated it on my ST1100 (Pan European) to a young female motorcyclist riding pillion with me.
She didn't know roundabouts could be taken so quickly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif especially on such a large machine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tully__
10-13-2004, 09:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by B16Enk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
Wrong Gozr

if you rode a bike with your feet you would turn left when pushing with your right foot
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please please please let me be there when you demonstrate that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I want to see your face when you try it (I've been riding motorbikes for 20 years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm with you on that Tully, 'biking for 27 years myself.

Gozr has it spot on, although I think the technical term is 'counter steer'. Is most certainly counter-intuitive.

I demonstrated it on my ST1100 (Pan European) to a young female motorcyclist riding pillion with me.
She didn't know roundabouts could be taken so quickly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif especially on such a large machine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Counter intuitive it may be, but anyone who's survived as long as us is doing it right even if they don't realise it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Same technique applies with bicycles of course, but the forces involved are much smaller so it's harder to spot...

F16_Fatboy
10-13-2004, 09:58 AM
Well I guess I€m to old learn new tricks so I will continue to pull on the right handlebar when I want my Fatboy to turn to right just as I have been doing since 1969 when I bought my first 1946 WLD.

FLSTF

WTE_Galway
10-13-2004, 05:29 PM
not sure how this turned into a motorcycle thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

at SLOW speeds on a motorcyle (parking lot for example) you turn the bars into the turn .. that is the best analogy to taxi-ing

now at high speed on a motorcycle .. to flip quickly into a turn or change the amount of lean you certianly can apply a flick of the handlebars in the opposite direction but you do not maintain that opposite steering, in fact in a stable long turn the bars are most likely very slightly into the turn


regardless of all that .. when taxi-ing an aircraft you slide the pedal forward on the side you wish turn towards and to make crisp co-ordinated turns in the air you also hit the pedal on the side you wish to turn towards at the same time you bank .. there is no "counter steering" in an aircraft as far as I know

Tully__
10-14-2004, 02:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
not sure how this turned into a motorcycle thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

at SLOW speeds on a motorcyle (parking lot for example) you turn the bars into the turn .. that is the best analogy to taxi-ing

now at high speed on a motorcycle .. to flip quickly into a turn or change the amount of lean you certianly can apply a flick of the handlebars in the opposite direction but you do not maintain that opposite steering, in fact in a stable long turn the bars are most likely very slightly into the turn
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I guess I should make a distinction between which way the handlebars are turned and which way you're applying pressure. At any speed you must push on the inside bar to initiate a turn. Once the turn is initiated the geometry of the steering will turn the handlebars into the turn without any input from the rider, however if the rider doesn't maintain forward pressure on the inside bar, the bike's steering geometry will tend to turn the front wheel/handlebars so far into the turn that the bike straigtens up by itself. If this weren't the case it wouldn't be possible (or at least not as easy) to ride "hands off".

A rider can alter the geometry a little by moving his/her weight from side to side, which varies the angle at which the front wheel "self centres", but in order to change turn/lean angle from this self centered position the rider must apply pressure on the inside bar (the direction of intended turn).

Capt_Haddock
10-14-2004, 10:58 AM
Brilliant! A biker's thread http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

There is one of those "before and after" moments in the life of any biker when you discover that to lean to the right you push the right handle. Ahh... simple pleasures. Always the best http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Try it F16_Fatboy, it works a treat.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/efas.jpg

F16_Fatboy
10-14-2004, 11:29 AM
Lol! And like I said; to old and probably to slow and definitely way to expensive to experiment with.

Pics of Wize Einz! (http://www.flygflottilj16.se/forum/viewtopic.php?t=190).

FLSTF

WTE_Galway
10-14-2004, 05:37 PM
countersteering on bikes is interesting .. people often mistakenly think it is a result of gyroscopic precession but thats not really the case (else large front wheel bikes would be more manouverable than small which is patently not the case) .. its more to do with track of the front wheel versus centre of gravity of the bike I suspect

either way .. most FB planes have tail wheels so counter steering is not an issue http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SlickStick
10-14-2004, 08:09 PM
Funny, while driving a fork lift during my college days, I never thought that the rear wheel steering experience would come in handy in a virtual flight simulator years later. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif