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LEBillfish
05-22-2005, 06:55 PM
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">~Salute All~!!!;

Ever do a search on a particular topic quickly finding that there is so much contradictory information it becomes hard to tell what is true? In truth the same goes for books, often it becoming quite clear that "literary license" must include making much up to fill pages.

Well of late flying also as Ktu*78th*Sentai I have started quite a bit of in-depth searching for information on the Ki-61...As said above much of it conflicting. Also, much of the information I have found is not in English, most Japanese with a significant bit in Polish..So what if???

What if I start a thread we all contribute to. We can all compare, then debate, toss out the garbage and glean it down to the universally assumed truth, or at least give averages...Perhaps then we could collect and sort enough information that we generate the unquestionable resource on the subject of...

The Ki-61

Here is how I'd like this thread to go...Topics are broken up into the following categories...

1. Ki-61 performance by type (speed, climb, turning, etc.)
2. Ki-61 Armament by type
3. Ki-61 Design by type (the over all design of it)
4. Ki-61 Cockpit and Controls by type
5. Ki-61 Mechanical Details by type and Manufacturing (what goes on in the Gear Bays, how do Elevators work, etc.)
6. Ki-61 Use and Squadrons
7. Ki-61 Tales of Combat (Must include date, time, units involved and where along with reported actions)
8-14 Same as above yet in P.F.

*For each of the above address only 1 item per post....
*Title it ex. Armament or Mechanicals, etc...
*Then state precisely where you got the information from...If a website add a URL but post the information here not just the link. *If a book list the Title, author, Publisher and edition date...Post a photo give it credit as to where you found it.
*Posts made without stating where you got it will be discounted and ignored.
*Do not just cut and paste here, write the text if possible..(which it always is)

*Once a week or as information starts filling up, I'll Gather the threads together and we can debate each topic.

Lets learn all we can on this plane, and perhaps have a sound and valuable source others might be quoting in the future as well http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </span>

Waldo.Pepper
05-22-2005, 09:46 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Welcome to my world. The goal is laudable but impossible. If reputable author's don't agree what good will our efforts be.

IMHO the best source for Japanese planes if the Francillon book.

Bronzefist
05-22-2005, 09:50 PM
I'm actually interested in the differences btw the KI-61s in Pacific Fighters. I can clearly see the later version has different armament but no info is given in the "view objects" section.

VW-IceFire
05-22-2005, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Bronzefist:
I'm actually interested in the differences btw the KI-61s in Pacific Fighters. I can clearly see the later version has different armament but no info is given in the "view objects" section.
They are basically identical...except the Hei (1944, red, with German imported MG151/20 20mm cannons) has a slightly reduced turn and top speed due to the drag and weight of the guns. But its barely noticeable.

JG53Frankyboy
05-22-2005, 10:22 PM
the version dates and droptank info are old - but the gun infos are still correct for 3.04

http://www.franky.fliegerhospital.de/Ki-61VariantenNEU.jpg

these three given variants of the Ki-61-I made around half of the production of the whole Ki-61-I series.
the other half was in general the Ki-61-Tei.
it had a slightly longer fuselage and two 20mm Ho-5 in the fusealge and 2 Ho-103 in the wings.
a weapons set that we will see in the Ki-100

LEBillfish
05-22-2005, 10:25 PM
Lets try and follow the guidelines...will make it go together well...

LEBillfish
05-22-2005, 11:07 PM
Armament Actual....

Ki-61 type 3 1a-c were all essentially the same. The primary difference was the armament.

Ki-61-1a Ko (08-42 to 09-43 388 built) had 2 7.7 type 89 MG's, 12kg/gun, 810m/s, 900r/m, 500r/g in the wings & 2 12.7 Ho-103 MG's, 23kg/gun, 780m/s, 900r/m, 250/270 r/g in nose.

Ki-61-1b Otsu(09-43 to 07-44 592 built) had 4 12.7 Ho-103 MG's, 23kg/gun, 780m/s, 900r/m, 250/270 r/g in each wing and 2 in nose.

Ki-61-1c Hei(09-43 to 07-44 400 built) had 2 12.7 Ho-103 MG's, 23kg/gun, 780m/s, 900r/m, 250/270 r/g in nose & 2 German manufactured 151/20 cannon, weight not listed, 695 to 785m/s,630 to 720 r/m, 120/250 r/g......It also had the added ability with wing strengthening to carry 2 250kg bombs, or 2 woven wood drop tanks of 150 liters each.

The 1d was a newly designed plane in many regards.

Production data from Kawasaki Ki-61 Hein in Japanese Army Air force, by R.M.Bueshel, Shiffer Publishing...

Weapon information from "Funatsu Aviation Insturments Museum" at http://gunsight.jp/b/index.htm

Feathered_IV
05-23-2005, 05:29 AM
LEBillfish, if you havent seen this already:


http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~s244f/

There is no english but click every link and you will be rewarded with some amazing photos.

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~s244f/phot6.jpg

Kobayashi after he "kissed" a B-29:

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~s244f/album025.jpg

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~s244f/album5052.jpg

Not a Ki-61 but look at the size of these guns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~s244f/album5056.jpg


Plenty more there......enjoy!

Aero_Shodanjo
05-23-2005, 06:02 AM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:

Not a Ki-61 but look at the size of these guns http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~s244f/album5056.jpg


Plenty more there......enjoy!

Is that a Hayate? Or Shoki? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Feathered_IV
05-23-2005, 06:10 AM
It's a Shoki. I'm not sure how many had these fitted for home defence, but I did hear it was tough going to lug them up to 10000m to catch a B-29.

JG53Frankyboy
05-23-2005, 06:11 AM
thats a Ki-44-IIc.
most propably with 40mm Ho-301 in its wings. perhaps 37mm Ho-203.

Aero_Shodanjo
05-23-2005, 06:41 AM
Thanks. Ive read about 40mm and 37mm cannons-armed Shoki variants before but never see the actual pictures until now.

Awake74
06-17-2005, 12:04 PM
KI61 real life Books:
The following books shows well KI61 performance, pilot and their technique and environment.

1. KI61 development story(written by Watanabe Youji) Pub:asahi sonolama 1992/10

Liquid cooler engine fighters history.
Birth of half-breed KI61.
Hard battles of New Guinea.
And to Philippine air.
Final, Japan mainland.
Too late KI100.
Bibliography.

2. My secret air combat with Hien(written by Matsumoto Yosio, Inose Katuaki) Pub:koujin sha 1996/9.
Sky of Dampier Straits.
Like a hien.
Life with my hien.
Therefore, people's child is.
Don't die with hastening.

Mr.Matumoto was Second lieutenant of #103Independent fighter group.

His techniques and air combats in New Guinea and the Philippines, with leader Ozawa lieutenant and maintenancer Hino sergeant are told in details by mails to friend Inose after war.
vs A20, P40, P38, F4F, F6F,(P47 another memo.).


3.HIEN vs F6F(written by Tagata Takeo) Pub:asahi sonolama 1995/3(re-pub of 1973book).

The chick which leaves a nest in the sky.
The China continent of disturbance.
Exceed a war comrade's.
The Burma battle line of heat land.
Human love crosses the border.
Taiwan ,paradise and hell.
The pick, #8 flight army division to fight.
2 The desperate struggle of vs 36.
The kamikaze party of #8 flight army division.
Disarmament of soldiers with tears.
Epilogue.

Mr.Tagata was Sub lieutenant The #8 education flight group.
1944/10/12 Taiwan sky. Vs the #38 F6F 36s formation, with one subordinate, shot 6 down and broke 5, both pilots were crushed landing in fields.
he had preeminent technique with battle sense, The command to him was "intercept enemy with 1 subordinate".

vs hurricane,Spit,F2A,welington bomber,F4F,F6F,P38,B24.


4. Ah.. HIEN fighter group(Written by Koyama Susumu) Pub:kojin Sha 1996/9

Mr.Koyama was Sergeant of #68 hikosentai.

Under south southern star.
In the blue sky of a decisive battle.
love -- a machine -- it also asks today.
It is protected by God of fate.
As long as self is living.
Until it becomes the last one.

vs B24, B25, P40, P38, P47, F4F.

-----------------------------------
mouzer20mm on KI61 otu was mounted from 1943/11.
seemed K61 real good clime rate and sound(kii----nnn) not realized in game.

LEBillfish
06-17-2005, 05:54 PM
Awesome list, know where to purchase them?

I'll try in the next couple days to get the list of books I know of and have up.

LEBillfish
06-17-2005, 06:58 PM
p.s. Awake74...

Could you please check your references in those books and tell me what they say was the "Hikoshidan" for the 68th & 78th Hikosentai?

It would read as follows...

1-3 Chutai, 78th Hikosentai, 14th Hikodan, ?X? Hikoshidan, 4th Kokugun.... (Company, AirRegiment, AirBrigade, AirDivision, AirArmy)

In my sources some read 7th Hikoshidan, some 6th, and some 6th and 7th.....Usual confusion http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

So I'm trying to firm that point up....They would be out of Rabaul, and Wewak & Hollandia Papua New Guinea.

Thanks

Kelly

Matz0r
06-17-2005, 11:54 PM
More pics of the wonderful Ki-61 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/ki61/Ki-61-114.jpg

http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/ki61/Ki-61-117.jpg


http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/ki61/Ki-61-28s.jpg



http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/ki61/Ki-61-50.jpg



http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/ki61/Ki-61-5s.jpg



http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/ki61/Ki-61-7.jpg



http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/ki61/Ki-61-89.jpg



http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/ki61/Ki-61-91.jpg



http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/ki61/ki61-Tony.jpg



http://www.pfy.nu/tmp/ki61/ki61a.jpg

SeaNorris
06-19-2005, 03:44 AM
Bump, great pics http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

VW-IceFire
06-19-2005, 09:23 AM
Shame we don't really have a map to fly these on...

ElAurens
06-19-2005, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Shame we don't really have a map to fly these on...

Huh?

New Guinea was the scene of the Ki61s first combats and really it's greatest struggles. Last I checked we had a map called New Guinea.

And...

We have Kyushu, so we can simulate the defence of the Homeland.

A.K.Davis
06-19-2005, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Shame we don't really have a map to fly these on...

Huh?

New Guinea was the scene of the Ki61s first combats and really it's greatest struggles. Last I checked we had a map called New Guinea.

And...

We have Kyushu, so we can simulate the defence of the Homeland. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not the correct area of Papua New Guinea (which happens to be a very large island) for JAAF operations, and same goes for Kyushu. No different than saying we have a historical map for Battle of Britain because we have a map of the close by area of Normandy.

A.K.Davis
06-19-2005, 12:03 PM
Ki-61 fans, if you do not have Greg Boyington's Ki-61 skins yet, you need to get them:

http://www.simulation-france-magazine.com/download.php?...sortorder=ASC&page=1 (http://www.simulation-france-magazine.com/download.php?dcategory=SKINS+GREG+BOYINGTON&sortby=dfilename&sortorder=ASC&page=1)