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View Full Version : 109 vs B17's picture series [Sample Mission Available!]



FlatSpinMan
11-24-2008, 07:33 AM
SAMPLE MISSION LINK (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads3&file=details&id=99)

http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/cloudsallgood.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/cloudscontrails.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/cloudsB17formation.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/clouds109overview.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/clouds109hunting.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/cloudscockpit.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/clouds109gglint.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/cloudsB17sattack.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/cloudsnotus.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/cloudstheyveboughtit.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/cloudsstragglerperfect.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/cloudsdeathdive.jpg

stalkervision
11-24-2008, 08:42 AM
and where are the p-51's pray tell.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CUJO_1970
11-24-2008, 08:49 AM
That shot of the 109 over the contrails is phenominal.

FSM, what is your system specs and what type of performance do you get on a mission like this.

My system is fairly outdated, Pentium 2.55 with 2.5 gigs of ram and a 156 meg Radeon 9800 Pro. That will prolly be a slideshow on my machine.

Enforcer572005
11-24-2008, 09:45 AM
Those are very impressive. They would make good posters actually.

My new computer that Quazi built for me is almost operational, so I can probably fly stuff like that alot better when I get it going.

Then I can finish my own 47 cmpn project the way I really want to.

K_Freddie
11-24-2008, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
and where are the p-51's pray tell.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
P..what ?? never heard of them, they must be 'chicken' !!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Nice pics.

stalkervision
11-24-2008, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
and where are the p-51's pray tell.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
P..what ?? never heard of them, they must be 'chicken' !!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Nice pics. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jarink
11-24-2008, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
and where are the p-51's pray tell.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Judging by the markings and paint on the B-17s (late '43?), I'd say the P-51s were still waiting to be built with Merlin engines. (The P-47s have just RTB'ed at the edge of their fuel.)
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

miktaras
11-25-2008, 01:18 AM
No P-51s but not much in the way of defensive fire either, nice looking pics.

P.FunkAdelic
11-25-2008, 03:41 AM
All the Jugs were kicked for high ping since they were excessively beyond their homebases and you don't get a very good signal that far into Europe.

Kurfurst__
11-25-2008, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by CUJO_1970:
That shot of the 109 over the contrails is phenominal.

Seconded. Got myself a new desktop background. Thanks FSM!

stalkervision
11-25-2008, 04:55 AM
Originally posted by jarink:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
and where are the p-51's pray tell.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Judging by the markings and paint on the B-17s (late '43?), I'd say the P-51s were still waiting to be built with Merlin engines. (The P-47s have just RTB'ed at the edge of their fuel.)
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then where are all the Me110's and me-410's.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

FlatSpinMan
11-25-2008, 08:33 AM
Heeey! Pulled in a few regulars on this one! Glad you liked the pictures guys. I'm also using one of the shots as my desktop background. A good skin, planeshine plus a good angle makes a world of difference. No editing other than cropping was used in these shots.
If anyone wants:
A) The full size screen grab
B) A sample mission to fly to see how it runs

just let me know and I'll email them to you.

The mission is just a formation building practice/skin try out mission. That's why there's no Op.For or Zerstoerers but in the real thing they WILL be present, fear not. The B17s are all armed, some set to average or veteran but 99% on rookie. There's no fire just because I'm uber and out of range.Those are big planes. I'm around .6- 1K out from them in the pictures above and I'm travelling pretty fast, too.
Rest assured, my virtual pilot was machine-gunned to death just seconds later.

I'd like to have some bombers set to empty loadouts, just to simulate fear, weapon failure, not seeing the enemy, but "unfortunately" this game is too damned smart and factors all that into flight characteristics so that the unloaded planes fly faster than the others. It's already hard enough to make these buggars keep a semblance of normal formation,let alone adding complicating factors.

I'd tried this mission repeatedly on clear weather settings but as the 8th flew in heavy cloud sometimes (when radar bombing) I wanted to see how playable different settings were.

My specs and settings are something like this:
-Pentium Dual Core E6750@2.66GHZ (I recall this meant something to me when I was buying the damned thing but I have no idea about it now)
-256MB nVidia 9600 or 9700 something, possibly XT
-SoundBlaster Audigy
-RAM = 2GB

-Perfect Settings
-Water=2 I think
-Resolution 1280x960
-AA=4x
-AF=4x
-Effects on full
-Shadows or whatever on full
-Flushy's cloud mod

In this mission the weather is set to Blind. I tried it with Thunderstorm but it would probably be too hard for most PC's. Even Blind is quite taxing. Thunderclouds look great from above though so I might throw them in somewhere, even though below the clouds it'd be madness for a real pilot to get airborne.
There are i think around 50 B17's, all armed and bombed up, plus only 4 109s. It ran fine for me. I don't know how may FRAPs, I just judge it by "Is this a pain in the arse to fly" rule of thumb. if anyone could try it out and let me know their views it'd be very helpful in knowing how much to throw into a mission.

stalkervision
11-25-2008, 09:31 AM
You gots to have them Zerstoerers don't you know.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

FlatSpinMan
11-25-2008, 09:44 AM
Oh we gots Zertoerers alright, don't you worry your pretty li'l head.

stalkervision
11-25-2008, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
Oh we gots Zertoerers alright, don't you worry your pretty li'l head.

You got them with "dur big Burtha cannon?" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/960/Me410_attacks_B-17G.jpg

FlatSpinMan
11-26-2008, 06:18 AM
Whoever took that photo must have been an extreeemmelleey together individual.

general_kalle
11-27-2008, 02:19 AM
lol yea. If thats taken from a 4 engine bomber the photoprapher must to be lying on the wing

FlatSpinMan
11-27-2008, 06:27 AM
Looks a B17 of the 8th AF 3rd Division, judging by the wing code and the vents on the wing behind the engine. Can't work out which position he would have been in though - maybe the waist or more likely the radio compartment but I didn't think there was a window there.
Amazing picture.

Magic369
11-28-2008, 02:04 PM
If anyone wants:
A) The full size screen grab
Of course I do!
Numbers 1, 3, 4, 7 and 11 please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And I think people in this thread (http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/797105322/m/3561037234/p/150) would also like to see these amazing pictures (you'd just have to censor that little crossy thing on the 109's tail fin) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JSG72
11-28-2008, 03:41 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Have been awaiting this Campaign/mission for a wee while now.

Looking forward to trying out my new found Me 410A-2/U4 of II/ZG26 against the "Mighty Eighth"

The 109 g6s of III/JG1(Even though badged as II Gruppe in Game But coded as I Gruppe 1/staffeln) were not used to attack the bombers but to cover the attacking Fw190A-6/8s equiped of the I/II JG1 gruppes. (I.E. They attacked the escorts). During the late '43/'44 campaign.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

jarink
11-28-2008, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
Looks a B17 of the 8th AF 3rd Division, judging by the wing code and the vents on the wing behind the engine. Can't work out which position he would have been in though - maybe the waist or more likely the radio compartment but I didn't think there was a window there.
Amazing picture.

"Square H" means 388th Bomb Group. From the angle, I think it had to have been taken from the radio room. There is a small window on each side there. Also notice the hole in the wing immediately below the insignia. Looks about 6-8" diameter. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

http://www.air-and-space.com/20020516%20SBA/3%2009%20B-17G%20N93012%20left%20rear%20forward%20fuselage%20 l.jpg

Urmo22
11-29-2008, 12:57 PM
How did u get contrails so low?

FlatSpinMan
11-29-2008, 04:41 PM
Low? That 109 is at 8000m!

FlatSpinMan
12-03-2008, 07:18 AM
@JSG72 - good info. I'll PM you some questions if you don't mind.

Gandy_Katarin
12-03-2008, 08:51 AM
Oh dam someone forgot to call for little friends.

FlatSpinMan
12-04-2008, 09:12 AM
Ain't no little friends for a few months yet, not at this stage of the war, this far over at least. The B17 type is a bit advanced for early 1943 but I'm still just messing about having fun. I'll change it in the real campaign.

Would anyone be able to test this to see how it runs? There's lots of planes plus quite bad weather (which is well below the action). it's not a complete mission,just a few waypoints stuck together.
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/dec4b17s.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/dec4109sagainstsun.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/dec4109sclouds.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/dec4againstflow.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/dec4109sslashing.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/dec42diving.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/dec4hitandrun.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/dec4navview.jpg
http://i310.photobucket.com/albums/kk426/FSMplanepics/dec4shreddedreverse.jpg

Metatron_123
12-04-2008, 09:49 AM
Nice pics, but be aware of skins that were intended for the early small tailed Bf-109G-6. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JSG72
12-04-2008, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
@JSG72 - good info. I'll PM you some questions if you don't mind.

No probs FlatSpinMan. (This was the sole reason I bought a computer and IL2 7 yrs ago. That was to fly this type of mission/Campaign.) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

FlatSpinMan
12-04-2008, 07:47 PM
@Metatron - that sounds important. Can you clarify what you mean please? Some 109s have smaller/larger tails and the skins reflect this? I'd better check that out.

@JSG72 - thanks very much. I'll be in touch.

jannaspookie
12-05-2008, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by FlatSpinMan:
@Metatron - that sounds important. Can you clarify what you mean please? Some 109s have smaller/larger tails and the skins reflect this? I'd better check that out.

@JSG72 - thanks very much. I'll be in touch.

He means that the skins you used are for earlier G models. The rudder hinge-seam on the skin doesn't match the one on the 3D model. The early 109 models had a metal tail fin with the rudder seam slanted in roughly the upper quarter. Though it changed some starting in the F, this general shape was used from the prototypes through most of the G models. Some late-war G-6s had a new, wooden tail that was taller and had a straight rudder seam (which is what your 109s have). This tail was later adopted as standard on the G-10 (I think) onwards. The in-game models with the tall fin are the 109G-6 late and AS, G-10, G-14, and all the K models.

FlatSpinMan
12-05-2008, 03:34 AM
Ah-hah. It's like a veil being lifted from my eyes.

Thanks for the explanation jannaspookie. I'll go through my skins and check that now.

FlatSpinMan
12-05-2008, 06:03 AM
Werry interesting. Just cleaned the folders up. Thanks for putting me straight there, guys. I tend to fly early planesets so had never noticed this difference.
Are there any other differences I should know about?

jannaspookie
12-05-2008, 02:45 PM
You might want to check your skins for "3D" looking bulges on the wings and cowlings. Many skins have shading/highlights to make parts of the plane look 3D to match bulges on the actual in-game model. Different 109G models had different bulges (i.e. for bigger guns in the cowling and bigger main wheels stowed in the wings). Your screenshots look okay, but you might want to just check and see if your skins have any bulges drawn on them, and if so, see if they match the ones in the game. If you're a detail freak like me who has nothing better to do, that is. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I'm not usually a fan of post-1942 stuff, but your mission here looks pretty sweet! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Duckmeister
12-05-2008, 07:09 PM
Link plox!

ImMoreBetter
12-05-2008, 11:27 PM
I would love to have this mission.

Please up-load it somewhere. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

MAX_theHitman
12-13-2008, 06:24 PM
superb pictures! Congratulations http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
How do you add 50 plus bombers to a game mission?
I have never been able to do that sort of trick.

pilotpimpf
12-14-2008, 02:43 AM
Superb FSM, always look forward to your campaigns ( so get your finger out and hurry up ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)
Im no tester but I would love to give this mission a go and help celebrate the return of Willi Jederman.
Me, I am still flying Africa at the moment and trying to make it to the end......

FlatSpinMan
12-14-2008, 03:20 AM
pilotpimpf - thanks for the offer. I got your PM but I think I'll just upload this to M4T as a (very basic) single mission tonight. I'll post the link here for you.
If you want any help with the FMB just let me know. Once you start placing objects it can get very addictive.

Max - there's about 54 B17's in the mission these shots come from. I have a variant with around 24 109's attacking them. That one sometimes slows things down.

FlatSpinMan
12-14-2008, 08:44 AM
Okay. I just submitted a single mission to M4T. I will add a link when it is approved.

The pack contains some skins and one basic interception mission in four different weather variations. I'd love it if people could try it and tell me whether it seems playable to them. I don't particularly need fraps numbers, just your opinion of "Is it playable or not?" and what specs and settings you used.

The mission has over 50 B-17F's, all armed, plus about 20 109 G6's. It will require a sturdy system to play it well.

JG52Uther
12-14-2008, 12:47 PM
Fantastic! Number 5 is not my desktop pic! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

FlatSpinMan
12-14-2008, 03:48 PM
http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads3&file=details&id=99

Lotharr
12-15-2008, 08:59 AM
I had no problems flying them all, even on low altitude. (although I didn't involve myself in really serious fighting. Haven't got the time for it.)

Grtz, Lothar

JG52Uther
12-15-2008, 09:40 AM
Flew mission 3.No problems with a amd64 4000 single core,2 gb ram and xt1950pro.Looked fabulous as well with all those contrails!

Uufflakke
12-15-2008, 11:27 AM
I gave it a try but not playable for my PC unfortunately. The closer the B-17's came the less FPS. It became a slideshow.
So instead of Perfect Mode I tried Excellent Mode on Clear Weather and Thunder. But even then not playable. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

PC Specs: XP, Pentium 4, CPU 2.93GHz, 2GB RAM, NVidia 8600GT/512MB.

FlatSpinMan
12-15-2008, 06:55 PM
Thanks guys. Glad it worked okay for you Uther and Lothar.
Uuflake - really?That's a shame. I have similar specs to your PC, in fact here's what I have:
nVidia 8600GTS
2GB Ram
Intel core 2 Duo E6750@2.66GHz
aa =4x
Settings are on Perfect,Water=2, Clouds set to Medium. I use that Cloud Mod, too.

I get some slowdown when all the 109s engage the lower flights at the same time but otherwise I consider it to be playable. No idea what framerates I'm getting, I just decide based on if it is annoying or not.
Wonder what acounts for the difference?
Thanks anyway, for replying. I wouldn't use cloud settings like that most of the time but I will try and get a similar number of planes in the air in most missions.

Anyone else?

Uufflakke
12-16-2008, 06:20 AM
FSM, I gave it a second try.
Our specs are quite similar I noticed, but instead of Water=3 I changed it to =2 and instead of Detailed Clouds I selected Medium Clouds (including Cloud Mod). I already have AA=4x and Perfect Mode.
It improved but still not playable. Maybe it has something to do with my IL2Setup.
I really don't know...

FlatSpinMan
12-16-2008, 06:45 AM
Yeah, or perhaps we just have different expectations of hat constitutes 'playable'. I used to have an older PC but would have the graphics on perfect often, even though it was sometimes not realistic.

Oh well. Thanks for letting me know.
If I have time I might try and cut some things down, perhaps change the timing of the 109s hitting the Forts so as to reduce the demand on the PC all going on at the same time.


Equally, I might just crack open a beer and play around for a while. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Uufflakke
12-16-2008, 07:00 AM
Some screenies with your settings during Thunder. Just to show you the FPS. I think you will agree it is not playable in my case. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Uufflakke/FPS1.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Uufflakke/FPS2.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Uufflakke/FPS3.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh195/Uufflakke/FPS4.jpg

FlatSpinMan
12-16-2008, 08:16 AM
Interesting. I had a quick try running the fps counter myself.
When I first tried it I was getting scores in the 60's. THEN I remembered I had tried it out on "Excellent" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif after reading your post, just to see if it ran differently ("YES" was the answer).

So I hit escape and reset the video options to Perfect. I think changing these settings mid-mission messes things up a bit so I will need to try again properly.

My first impression is that it seemed to make my game slower. Obviously I couldn't measure it but I did experience more stilted play, especially going through the contrails after my initial pass. As I said above though, this may be due to changing the settings mid-flight.

My figures on this trial were pretty similar to yours. I had paused the game for a second so that screwed up my averages and minimums. I'll retest it some other time. I'd say the lowest figure I saw was 8. The average was probably around 18 during the heavy scenes. I still think it was running slower at the time though. I suppose my running the fps counter and having paused, reset options, then restarted probably don't make it too exact.

I'll get back to you when I try it again. Thanks for trying.

viking4570
12-16-2008, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by Uufflakke:
FSM, I gave it a second try.
Our specs are quite similar I noticed, but instead of Water=3 I changed it to =2 and instead of Detailed Clouds I selected Medium Clouds (including Cloud Mod). I already have AA=4x and Perfect Mode.
It improved but still not playable. Maybe it has something to do with my IL2Setup.
I really don't know...

I think the difference is your P4 vs FSM's E6750. That's quite a processor upgrade.

--viking

pilotpimpf
12-19-2008, 12:48 PM
Thats great FSM, thanks very much for putting it up, I shall toddle off and download it now.

It will be interesting to see how my PC handles it , lets hope it does not choke on all those aircraft... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JSG72
12-19-2008, 06:41 PM
My cards(SLI) can hardly run this.

What is the point of running Big Statics. When all the action is above 32,000ft?

I have Downloaded a few missions that run "No Probs" on just such a subject.

Why have Ultra realistic Ground when you are glad to have survived?

You can bet your Billy Boots. That noone is going to save "3 Kills and land" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

FlatSpinMan
12-20-2008, 05:18 AM
Thanks for the mission yous ent me. I'll try it out soon.
This mission has hardly any static objects in it - only one airfield and a smattering of houses in the nearby village. Besides, it makes virtually no difference to how smoothly missions run unless you have a LOT of different objects in a small space. It can affect load time but in this mission I don't notice that.
The reason there seems to be so many objects is that I built a perimeter fence and that is made out of many small but identical sections.

JG52Uther
12-20-2008, 05:28 AM
Might want to set 'parachutes' to off as well.Could cause some problems with multiple B17s going down and 10 parachutes coming out of each one.
I always run 2AA/2AF as well.

FlatSpinMan
12-20-2008, 05:51 AM
Yeah, I actually only have set a few planes to have parachutes. Generally I avoid using them at all but in all the accounts you read about bailing crews so I wanted some in there.
Thanks for the idea though.

JSG72
12-20-2008, 07:41 AM
Apologies for my Drunken post last nignt.

Just had another couple of goes at your mission Flatspin. And Very good indeed.

I just need to upgrade my rig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nice to fly the 109s Instead of my usual Fw. 190.

FlatSpinMan
12-21-2008, 03:39 AM
Ahh. That explains the punctuation - thought that was a bit odd. No worries at all.

Crazy_Goanna
12-21-2008, 06:33 PM
Good Mission -- stopped me from going out to mow the acres
Lots of aircraft-- did not actually count numbers but the system handled it better than I thought no slow downs.
System-
nVidia 7600GT
4GB Ram
Intel core 2 Duo E6600@2.4GHz (overclocked to 2.8)
screen 1680x1050(and in config.ini)
all settings Excellent
water e3xcellent

FlatSpinMan
12-22-2008, 12:25 AM
I'm guessing it's not THAT hard to stop you from going out to mow the acres though, is it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Thanks for he feedback.Do you always play on Excellent or did you lower it for this mission?