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Ba5tard5word
09-14-2009, 11:54 PM
Ok well finally I took the plunge and tried a mission with CEM on. I figured how to open the radiator and it wasn't so bad. The mission was in a P-40 at sea level so pretty basic. I was able to fly at 110% throttle for maybe 8 minutes before overheating, then put it to 60 and got "Engine: Normal" after a few seconds, which was good. But it seemed like having the radiator open made the handling of the plane a bit doughier, though maybe it's because I haven't picked up Il-2 in a week or so.

How do I use the radiator properly? Does closing it make the plane fly smoother, even though it makes the engine overheat? When should I open and close it?

Other than that, I don't know how to use these:

- magnetos
- superchargers
- fuel mix
- prop pitch

Well I guess fuel mix you lower when at higher altitudes right? How do I know to raise and lower it and when do I know it's perfect?

And prop pitch I know makes you go a bit faster or slower...is 0 slowest and 100 fastest, or is it the other way?

Magnetos and superchargers I have no idea how to use or what they do.

Romanator21
09-15-2009, 01:16 AM
Magnetos: Don't worry about these for the game. Pressing "I" activates several steps including turning these on. These are connected to the spark plugs to the cylinders. They charge the plugs without the need of a battery, unlike in say a modern day car. You have 2 plugs per cylinder (so 2 magnetos) to burn the fuel evenly and to back you up in the unlikely event that one fails.

Radiator: Don't know that much about it in a real aircraft. In the game I keep it 2 or 4 in cruise, and closed in combat (or unless overheating, then open) When closed I do not set power over 100 unless I am really fast. I keep my speed up and rarely overheat. When open they will create drag.

Mixture:It's automatically at full rich. In a real plane, it has to be adjusted at all times. If it's too rich you can gunk up the spark plugs faster, and you will waste more fuel. It's adjusted by altitude, and generally you lean until you get maximum power. While in cruise you use the cylinder head temperature to determine what to set it to. Also, the engine is shut off by leaning the mixture to 0, not by turning off the magnetos as in the game.
In the game lean it out to save gas, or when you see red-brown smoke trails from your exhaust. You can over-rich (120%) to put more fuel in the cylinders to help prevent overheating.

Supercharger: Sucks more air into the engine to compensate for thin air at altitude. It depends on the plane, but if my rpms start to drop, maybe above 3000 meters or so I turn it on.

Power:Again, I haven't flown complex/high performance aircraft. If I'm not wrong, it's the pressure of fuel/air going into the engine. In a real aircraft setting a pressure higher than prop pitch can cause the engine to explode. This is not modeled in IL-2.

Pitch: This is the angle of the propeller blades. This regulates the RPMs the propeller spins at, not the power. I generally have it at 100 for combat. It should be lowered in a dive to reduce drag (imagine those paper helicopters you made as a kid.) When dive-bombing however, I keep it at full ( I want to dive as slow as possible in this case). For cruise I might have it anywhere between 50 to 90. Landing; down to 30. Despite it not being modeled in the game, I never raise power above the level of pitch, and I don't know what benefits it can give you.

Boost: Basically a boost in pressure, for some planes. This is useless for Merlins at low altitude except to fry the engine. Some "boosts" are really just an injection of water or ethanol. For a 109 I think I was told to reduce power to 80, add boost, then power to 110 or else the engine will overheat too quickly. So, for some planes you need to ask around or do research.

To see some effects, the best option is to experiment. For example, pick a US plane. Land it with throttle -30% and pitch 100. It's really hard because the prop is still spinning rather quickly and making you too fast. On the other hand, lower the pitch, and you can hear the engine really change the sound it makes and your rpms drop off.

Hope this helps. If I make any errors, feel free to correct me.

Freiwillige
09-15-2009, 01:33 AM
I agree with all the poster above says until the prop pitch and landing part.

All WWII aircraft landed with prop pitch at 100 percent. Cause at those low speeds you needed two things

1. if the landing is wrong 100% pitch gave you instant power to pull away and go around with throttle.

And with 100% pitch at low speeds the prop would actually act as an aerodynamic break spinning the prop faster against the wind. Its complex but you will figure it out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

doraemil
09-15-2009, 02:48 AM
uh, if you read bearcat's nugget's thread, there's a M4T link for CEM, and the explanations there are golden.

but here's a quick run down.

Mixture, you have to thin it out as you go higher altitudes . . . esp if there's no supa charger.

Supercharger for mid / high altitude, keeps engine performance up . . . read the plane / control pdf guide as each plane has specific alt where you switch it.

Power is basically controlled by your throttle.
If you don't have a throttle on your joystick or seperate throttle . . . I guess its KB

On cars this is the gas pedal. 0% no bueno, and 100% full, and then you can take it up to 110% (above 100% usually engages boost).

WEP / Boost: extra power from your engine. Depending on the plane you can damage the engine if you over do it, overheat (usually happens). Refer to plane guide pdf for specifics.

Prop pitch: this is how much the prop bites into air. Engines run at an optimum rpm and prop pitch keeps it there. If you set it too high an the engine over revs, you can burn it out. German planes have automatic prop pitch and if you do manual, they are much more sensitive to proper pitch + throttle settings than say VVS or US planes.

I've found 90 prop pitch with 90 throttle is faster than 100 pitch and 100 throttle in some planes but it varies plane to plane so you have to figure out your fav planes.


for landing I usually set prop pitch at 80+ (usually 100).

Diving usually reduce prop pitch and esp dive bombing set it lower (



With regarding magneto's they do have a place in the game.

When you take engine damage and it either shuts off or rpms are dropping, and you can't start it. You can try switching magnetos and try restarting the engine.

Sometimes putting on 1 magneto (vs 1+2), will allow it to get more rpm's or even start up.

Uufflakke
09-15-2009, 06:20 AM
I'm too lazy to write things down so here is a link that helped me a lot as a so called armchair pilot:

http://www.mission4today.com/i...Base&op=show&kid=249 (http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Knowledge_Base&op=show&kid=249)

Everything about Prop Pitch, Fuel Mixture, Supercharger, WEP, Radiator Settings, Trim, Magneto, Throttle and Flaps.

Ba5tard5word
09-15-2009, 09:51 AM
Thanks guys, this is very useful. I KNEW the radiator being open was messing up my flight. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I looked for CEM data in Bearcat's nuggets thread but didn't catch it, I'll check out the M4T link later, thanks to all again.

TinyTim
09-15-2009, 10:27 AM
There is a very simple general rule when to shift supercharger: Observe the mainfold pressure gauge, and shift the supercharger. If pressure drops, shift it back, if not leave it. In short - always shift supercharger so that the pressure is highest.

It should usually be shifted between 2000 and 4000m of alt. It also can't hurt to know how many stages certain planes have. Most don't have manual supercharger control, some have two stages (most russian birds) and some have three (F6F, F4U, F4F, J2M-5,...).

CEM really counts in Russian planes - you have to do everything manually there, from mixture to supercharger. Spitfire for example on the other hand has it all automated, you can't even control radiators in it.

Oh, and BTW, leave radiators on R-2800 equipped planes (P-47, F6F, F4U) and J2M closed all the time. If you open them, they don't cool the engine down, but they do contribute to drag. It's a bug. You can run R-2800 on overheat without damage for 10 minutes anyway, twice as long as other engines.

megalopsuche
09-15-2009, 10:58 AM
You really don't need to worry about overheats as much as you might fear. Many of our aircraft can run at 110% power, rads closed, with the overheat message for more than 10 minutes before the engine blows.

Ba5tard5word
09-15-2009, 12:00 PM
What do you generally do when you get the overheat message when you want to make the engine cooler? Drop throttle? To what? I was able to get it to go away in the P-40 by setting it to 60% for about 30 seconds but the radiator was open during the entire mission.

megalopsuche
09-15-2009, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
What do you generally do when you get the overheat message when you want to make the engine cooler? Drop throttle? To what? I was able to get it to go away in the P-40 by setting it to 60% for about 30 seconds but the radiator was open during the entire mission.

Again, depending on what I'm flying, I will ignore the overheat message for quite a long time. But if I want to take care of it, pulling back to 90-95% manifold, prop pitch to 90-95%, and radiator at 2-4 will usually take care of it.

The first step is not to panic when the overheat message appears. Do a little experiment with one of the aircraft you like to fly. With a stopwatch, time how long it takes to blow the engine at emergency power, 100% pitch, rads closed. You'll probably be surprised.

megalopsuche
09-15-2009, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
What do you generally do when you get the overheat message when you want to make the engine cooler? Drop throttle? To what? I was able to get it to go away in the P-40 by setting it to 60% for about 30 seconds but the radiator was open during the entire mission.

Again, depending on what I'm flying, I will ignore the overheat message for quite a long time. But if I want to take care of it, pulling back to 90-95% manifold, prop pitch to 90-95%, and radiator at 2-4 is usually enough.

The first step is not to panic when the overheat message appears. Do a little experiment with one of the aircraft you like to fly. With a stopwatch, time how long it takes to blow the engine at emergency power, 100% pitch, rads closed. You'll probably be surprised. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ba5tard5word
09-15-2009, 01:28 PM
Hmm, cool.

Is there any sort of detailed info on each plane about their peculiarities? Seems like someone would have put together one at some point. The cockpit info .pdf that comes with the game isn't too detailed.

K_Freddie
09-15-2009, 01:41 PM
Don't know if it's modelled, but rich fuel mixture at altitude should help with engine cooling.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

TinyTim
09-15-2009, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
You really don't need to worry about overheats as much as you might fear. Many of our aircraft can run at 110% power, rads closed, with the overheat message for more than 10 minutes before the engine blows.

All piston engines except R-2800 series in IL-2 will start getting damaged after 5 minutes plus loose change on overheat. It really doesn't matter how "hard" you are overheating, the modelling is very simple: in the instant when "Engine Overheat" message pops up, a stopwatch starts, and if you don't cool the engine down before time runs out, engine will get damaged. YOu only need to get the Overheat message disspaear for a moment, to reset the stopwatch.

All R-2800 engines however have this time doubled, so you can run them nearly 11 minutes on overheat before they'll get damaged.

megalopsuche
09-15-2009, 02:04 PM
Oh, that's good info on the R-2800. Thanks for the clarification.

Romanator21
09-15-2009, 02:21 PM
All WWII aircraft landed with prop pitch at 100 percent. Cause at those low speeds you needed two things

1. if the landing is wrong 100% pitch gave you instant power to pull away and go around with throttle.

And with 100% pitch at low speeds the prop would actually act as an aerodynamic break spinning the prop faster against the wind. Its complex but you will figure it out Smile

Aw shucks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Alright, well I learned something today too. I haven't flown this game for over a month. That definitely makes more sense, thanks.

Ba5tard5word
09-15-2009, 02:42 PM
Some "boosts" are really just an injection of water or ethanol. For a 109 I think I was told to reduce power to 80, add boost, then power to 110 or else the engine will overheat too quickly.

The MW thingy in Bf-109's have to be turned on when your throttle is (I think) under 100%, if throttle is higher then your engine will immediately blow a gasket and lose most of its power, it does this even if CEM is off. As far as I know no other WEP/boost device in other planes does this.

So basically set throttle to like 95%, turn on MW, then you can set your throttle back to 110% or whatever you want.

megalopsuche
09-15-2009, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Some "boosts" are really just an injection of water or ethanol. For a 109 I think I was told to reduce power to 80, add boost, then power to 110 or else the engine will overheat too quickly.

The MW thingy in Bf-109's have to be turned on when your throttle is (I think) under 100%, if throttle is higher then your engine will immediately blow a gasket and lose most of its power, it does this even if CEM is off. As far as I know no other WEP/boost device in other planes does this.

So basically set throttle to like 95%, turn on MW, then you can set your throttle back to 110% or whatever you want. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've screwed up the engine in the 190D-9 by engaging MW50 above 100% manifold.

Ba5tard5word
09-15-2009, 04:05 PM
Oops yeah sorry I forgot there is an MW50 in that one D9, I assume it has to be switched on below 100% too.

Ba5tard5word
10-08-2009, 01:08 AM
Ok so I tried CEM some tonight and I think I figured it out pretty quickly after experimenting with stuff. I only flew around sea level (I generally don't really go higher than 2000m anyway) so I didn't mess with the stuff needed at higher altitude.

I guess this is all you have to do:

- if the plane has a multiple-set of superchargers, set it to 1 when around 3000m up or less to get your engine running at max possible rpm

- open/close radiator as needed

- don't need to mess with fuel rich except when needed at higher altitude

- prop pitch at 100 seems ok

Prop pitch is really the only thing for low level stuff that I don't get. When should I lower it below 100? Seems like sometimes when at 110% throttle and around 480kph in a fast plane like the Tempest when trying to pick up speed, putting pitch to like 70 or 80% would give me a boost of like 10kph but it was kind of unpredictable and I didn't see this happen at more like 550kph.


Also what will boost do if left on for a while even if I am careful to avoid overheating, will it kill the engine? Use up fuel a bunch?

PanzerAce
10-08-2009, 02:19 AM
One thing you should know is that the F6F and F4U can get a major performance boost if you shift to the 'low' supercharger setting (supercharger 2) at ~400meters with the throttle firewalled. Otherwise the water/meth doesn't result in an increase in manifold pressure.

na85
10-08-2009, 12:11 PM
GM-1 needs to be engaged over 6000m or your engine will detonate.

MW50 requires that you engage it below 70% throttle and then you can throttle back up.

Frankthetank36
10-08-2009, 01:34 PM
So, um, for best speed do you leave the radiator full open so you don't overheat the engine, or half open, or closed, or what? Do you really notice a big speed decrease from the drag? Is there a gauge that you're supposed to be monitoring for radiator control? Also on the Spit I noticed that beyond the red zone on the tach and manifold pressure gauges there is a neutral zone like there is before the red zone, what is the deal with that? Is it okay to go beyond the red zone as long as you're not IN it?

crucislancer
10-08-2009, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by PanzerAce:
One thing you should know is that the F6F and F4U can get a major performance boost if you shift to the 'low' supercharger setting (supercharger 2) at ~400meters with the throttle firewalled. Otherwise the water/meth doesn't result in an increase in manifold pressure.

Cool, I'm going to have to give that a shot. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

TinyTim
10-08-2009, 02:12 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
Do you really notice a big speed decrease from the drag?

On most common fighters maximum speed difference between radiators open and closed is about 20 to 30 kph.

I've read a couple of times that some planes also change their FM, handling worse with rads open. I've never experienced it, but then it would take quite some testing to prove it.

crucislancer
10-08-2009, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
Ok so I tried CEM some tonight and I think I figured it out pretty quickly after experimenting with stuff. I only flew around sea level (I generally don't really go higher than 2000m anyway) so I didn't mess with the stuff needed at higher altitude.

I guess this is all you have to do:

- if the plane has a multiple-set of superchargers, set it to 1 when around 3000m up or less to get your engine running at max possible rpm

- open/close radiator as needed

- don't need to mess with fuel rich except when needed at higher altitude

- prop pitch at 100 seems ok

Prop pitch is really the only thing for low level stuff that I don't get. When should I lower it below 100? Seems like sometimes when at 110% throttle and around 480kph in a fast plane like the Tempest when trying to pick up speed, putting pitch to like 70 or 80% would give me a boost of like 10kph but it was kind of unpredictable and I didn't see this happen at more like 550kph.


Also what will boost do if left on for a while even if I am careful to avoid overheating, will it kill the engine? Use up fuel a bunch?

In the Tempest, I don't use 100% PP unless doing a combat climb, take off, or landing. I also don't thottle up over 100% unless it's really needed, like in a combat climb. Lately, I've barely been using the Boost. I usually cruise at around 270 knots with the throttle and PP around 70-80%.

I find that boost doesn't kill your engine unless you overrev or overheat for a long time. You can overrev the Tempest if you go 110%+Boost and 100% PP and dive.

That's the thing about CEM, each plane is a little different, what works for one may not work for another.

Frankthetank36
10-08-2009, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
Do you really notice a big speed decrease from the drag?

On most common fighters maximum speed difference between radiators open and closed is about 20 to 30 kph.

I've read a couple of times that some planes also change their FM, handling worse with rads open. I've never experienced it, but then it would take quite some testing to prove it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But I thought you can't really use the top speed with the radiator closed because it will overheat from the full throttle settings? There are like 8 radiator settings and I never know which one to use, somebody help me out here.

Lt_Letum
10-08-2009, 04:48 PM
from what I have read by people who have claimed
to have tested it with device link, it is always
faster to run at reduced throttle with rads
closed.

However, take a look at the online racing
community and they will tell you that it is
faster to close the rads, over heat the engine
for that planes over heat time (~4mins in most
planes, but up to 10mins in some i.e.P47) and
then cool the engine on reduced throttle and
open rads as quickly as possible before over
heating again.

Frankthetank36
10-08-2009, 04:55 PM
So is there a gauge or something that tells you how much you are overheating (and how much will bust the engine)? I would like to know when to use the radiator increments instead of just full open or full closed. Also what about the red zone on the Spit's manifold pressure and tach gauges, why does it not extend to the full part of the gauge? Does that mean it's okay to go beyond the redzone as long as you're not in it or what?

Lt_Letum
10-08-2009, 05:11 PM
Overheating isn't well modeled in IL2.
After the overheat warning appeaser you have a
certain amount of time to cool the engine
before it becomes damaged. It doesn't matter if
you heat it up to 1000 degrees as long as it
cools down in time. The instant it cools down
you can heat it up again.
The length of time the engine can stand being
over heated for varies from plane to plane.
I used to have a table giving the overheat
times for all the planes (any one got a copy
still?).

If yo have noting better to do, you can time
your overheat periods and you will get ever so
slightly more speed at the cost of an immersive
gaming experience.

Most planes do have a temperature gauge, but
engine temperature just isn't modeled well
enough for it to be much use.

perhaps the devs where worried that highly
complex engine management wold scare off
casual players or get in the way of the
overall game experience. Perhaps they just
gave it low priority and didn't have time.


To answer your question directly; radiator
increments are not useful. Even slightly open
rads create more drag than the extra throttle
can make up for.
Leave your rads open when you don't need to go
fast. Close them when you do. Open them when
you need to cool down.

TinyTim
10-08-2009, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TinyTim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
Do you really notice a big speed decrease from the drag?

On most common fighters maximum speed difference between radiators open and closed is about 20 to 30 kph.

I've read a couple of times that some planes also change their FM, handling worse with rads open. I've never experienced it, but then it would take quite some testing to prove it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But I thought you can't really use the top speed with the radiator closed because it will overheat from the full throttle settings? There are like 8 radiator settings and I never know which one to use, somebody help me out here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if you really need those 20kph (they may save you), then the answer is obvious. Close rads and run. You have 5 minutes of overheat in most planes anyway. 10 in some.


Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
So is there a gauge or something that tells you how much you are overheating (and how much will bust the engine)?

Like Letum said, once Overheat message pops up, a stopwatch starts. You need to get the message dissapear before time runs out (about 5 minutes for most planes, and about 10 for P-47, F6F, F4U etc, basically all R-2800 equipped planes). You only need the message to dissapear for a split second, so that you reset the counter, and you have new 5 minutes.

Frankthetank36
10-08-2009, 07:10 PM
Well guess I won't fly around with my radiator fully open all the time anymore. So how about mixture adjustment? The EGT gauge isn't nearly as sensitive as in MFS. Is it only necessary above like 3000m?

na85
10-08-2009, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by Frankthetank36:
Well guess I won't fly around with my radiator fully open all the time anymore. So how about mixture adjustment? The EGT gauge isn't nearly as sensitive as in MFS. Is it only necessary above like 3000m?

I would recommend you fly around with rads open all the time, and then just close them when you need the extra speed or if you get into combat.

It makes sense: Keep your engine as cool as possible, so that you can torch it when you really need it. If it comes down to overheating your engine or letting the guy behind you catch up and shoot you, the choice is obvious.

----------

As far as mixture: There is no magic altitude where you need to adjust. Some aircraft you have to go down a notch at 3300, others will be good until 4500 or so.

Basically, leave it at 100% mix until you climb high enough that you notice twin trails of brown smoke coming out of the engine(s). You will also notice the RPMs start to drop as the engine gets "bogged down"

When this happens, go down a notch on your mixture controls, and you will be able to climb higher.

Be sure to put the mixture back up when you get below that altitude again on your way back down, otherwise you won't get maximum power.

Ba5tard5word
10-09-2009, 12:27 AM
Hmmm well I was just in a mission in the La-7 and my engine died all of a sudden.

I had supercharger at 1, fuel mix at default 100, about 1000m up, and engaged enemies by closing the radiator and putting throttle to 110%. I shot down a couple, then suddenly I get this noise like I was hit by gunfire and my engine cut out and I get the "engine inoperable" message. No overheating message prior to that at all.

I was recording the mission and played the mission back and I am pretty sure I wasn't hit by an enemy bullet. Do engines just blow out sometimes with CEM?

na85
10-09-2009, 02:52 AM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:

Do engines just blow out sometimes with CEM?

Never in my experience. Only time my engine has detonated is when I ran GM-1 at sea level.

Were you hit by AAA?

Lt_Letum
10-09-2009, 09:02 AM
There are only 4 ways you can damage an engine
in IL2:

Gunfire/flak/crashing etc.
Overheat beyond the over heat time
Over revving
Incorrect GM-1/MW50 use

If you are 10% sure you can rule out 1,2 and 4
you must have over revved.
next time be sure to reduce your prop pitch
before you enter a very fast and prolonged
dive.

Ba5tard5word
10-09-2009, 10:16 AM
No, I was far away from any AA. Maybe I overrevved it, but I wasn't going into a steep dive, sort of a shallow dive if I remember. What should I reduce PP to when pointing the nose down with throttle at max?


Weird.

na85
10-09-2009, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
What should I reduce PP to when pointing the nose down with throttle at max?

There's no hard fast rule. It depends on how fast you're going.

If in doubt, when you spawn on the runway, put prop pitch to 100 and firewall the throttle. Note the RPM that the engine settles on (in the La, probably near 2700). If you're in a dive and your RPMs exceed that number, you should decrease prop pitch and/or throttle back.

Ba5tard5word
10-09-2009, 02:11 PM
Ok, I'll check with the La-7 and then watch that .ntrk again and see if the RPM gauge shows anything.

TinyTim
10-09-2009, 02:27 PM
On the CSP (constant speed propeller) equipped planes you shouldn't overrev no matter how fast you go. The job of CSP is to constantly adjust the pitch of the propeller blades so that your engine stays at constant RPM. You can overrev planes without CSP in a dive (like Gladiator, P.11 and similar), or the ones where you can disengage CSP.

crucislancer
10-09-2009, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
On the CSP (constant speed propeller) equipped planes you shouldn't overrev no matter how fast you go. The job of CSP is to constantly adjust the pitch of the propeller blades so that your engine stays at constant RPM. You can overrev planes without CSP in a dive (like Gladiator, P.11 and similar), or the ones where you can disengage CSP.

I'm quite certain you can overrev a Tempest in a dive, but I never actually tested it. I recall a few times going into a dive with everything full on + boost, and it sounded like the engine was going to explode any second. I yanked back PP and shut off boost and it mellowed out, but sometimes I'm left with a rough engine after that. I'll play with it tonight and see what happens.

Skunk_438RCAF
10-09-2009, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
On the CSP (constant speed propeller) equipped planes you shouldn't overrev no matter how fast you go. The job of CSP is to constantly adjust the pitch of the propeller blades so that your engine stays at constant RPM. You can overrev planes without CSP in a dive (like Gladiator, P.11 and similar), or the ones where you can disengage CSP.

I doubt its modelled, but you can overrev a CSP...the governor just has to fail.

na85
10-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
On the CSP (constant speed propeller) equipped planes you shouldn't overrev no matter how fast you go. The job of CSP is to constantly adjust the pitch of the propeller blades so that your engine stays at constant RPM. You can overrev planes without CSP in a dive (like Gladiator, P.11 and similar), or the ones where you can disengage CSP.

CSP's ability to adjust RPM has a limit.

TinyTim
10-09-2009, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TinyTim:
On the CSP (constant speed propeller) equipped planes you shouldn't overrev no matter how fast you go. The job of CSP is to constantly adjust the pitch of the propeller blades so that your engine stays at constant RPM. You can overrev planes without CSP in a dive (like Gladiator, P.11 and similar), or the ones where you can disengage CSP.

CSP's ability to adjust RPM has a limit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In real life sure, but is this limit modelled in IL-2?

na85
10-09-2009, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by TinyTim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TinyTim:
On the CSP (constant speed propeller) equipped planes you shouldn't overrev no matter how fast you go. The job of CSP is to constantly adjust the pitch of the propeller blades so that your engine stays at constant RPM. You can overrev planes without CSP in a dive (like Gladiator, P.11 and similar), or the ones where you can disengage CSP.

CSP's ability to adjust RPM has a limit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In real life sure, but is this limit modelled in IL-2? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty sure.

I do know that you can over-rev a 190 in a dive.

TinyTim
10-09-2009, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TinyTim:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TinyTim:
On the CSP (constant speed propeller) equipped planes you shouldn't overrev no matter how fast you go. The job of CSP is to constantly adjust the pitch of the propeller blades so that your engine stays at constant RPM. You can overrev planes without CSP in a dive (like Gladiator, P.11 and similar), or the ones where you can disengage CSP.

CSP's ability to adjust RPM has a limit. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In real life sure, but is this limit modelled in IL-2? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty sure.

I do know that you can over-rev a 190 in a dive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, in 190 you can, if you disengage auto pitch. Doubt you can however if you don't.

na85
10-09-2009, 04:47 PM
Correct, I forgot to mention manual mode. But IIRC the 190 in manual mode functions just like a CSP does it not?

Kettenhunde
10-09-2009, 05:06 PM
On the CSP (constant speed propeller) equipped planes you shouldn't overrev no matter how fast you go.

You can over rev a CSP AND you can over boost the manifold pressure with a CSP.

When you maneuver, you must adjust the manifold pressure to keep it within tolerance for the engine.

Additionally, the CSP rpm is adjusted both at the cable, governor, and propeller itself. It is very common to adjust them at then come out on a different day to find your rpm/manifold relationship is not the same due to density altitude.

Generally speaking, only on a day similar to the one the propeller/engine was adjusted will you find the performance stated in the manual.

I once owned an airplane that required annual in June. Every winter, I would notice a 100-150rpm decrease at full throttle for example.

All the best,

Crumpp

Kettenhunde
10-09-2009, 05:09 PM
But IIRC the 190 in manual mode functions just like a CSP does it not?

In RL no.
The VDM propellers have two settings, Automatic and Emergency.
In automatic, the VDM hydraulic electric propellers function as a CSP. In emergency, they function as an adjustable pitch. The pilot must adjust the pitch to reach the required rpm for the manifold pressure using "recipe" flying.

All the best,

Crumpp

na85
10-09-2009, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Kettenhunde:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But IIRC the 190 in manual mode functions just like a CSP does it not?

In RL no. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I meant in0game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant_speed_propeller


oil is pumped through the propeller shaft to push on a piston which drives the mechanism to change pitch. The flow of oil and the pitch is controlled by a governor. The constant-speed propeller also has a speeder spring, fly weights, and a pilot valve. The tension of the speeder spring is set by the prop control lever, which sets the RPMs.

The above seems to me to be pretty much what we have ingame when the 190 operates on manual pitch.

Kettenhunde
10-09-2009, 05:55 PM
The above seems to me to be pretty much what we have ingame when the 190 operates on manual pitch.

It is not correctly modeled then in your game.

The only "manual" on the FW-190 is the Emergency setting. This system is not designed for combat or cross country flight. It is an emergency setting so the pilot can safely land the aircraft for repairs. The manifold pressure is severly limited.

All the best,

Crumpp

crucislancer
10-09-2009, 08:20 PM
So, I tested the Tempest to see if I could overrev the engine, I started a dive from 16,000 feet, everything all the way up with Boost on, and it didn't overrev. It sounded like it would, but my ailerons came off before it could happen. Maybe a different plane might work for that test, but the Tempest has some great acceleration in a dive.


Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
I doubt its modelled, but you can overrev a CSP...the governor just has to fail.

This is true, though, and this is modeled in the game, at least with the Tempest and Spitfire. It's happened quite a bit with both, but no other planes that I'm aware of. Many times I've nursed one of those two planes back to base with the PP and throttle set low just to keep the engine from running off.

Kettenhunde
10-10-2009, 06:59 AM
but you can overrev a CSP...the governor just has to fail.

In RL, the governor does not have to fail. The blades just have to reach the stops.

The propeller then begins driving the engine and your manifold pressure will begin to increase. If it increases too much, the engine will be damaged.

All the best,

Crumpp

M_Gunz
10-10-2009, 08:14 AM
We don't have shock-cooling from enormous dives, we don't have the prop gears tearing apart when given massive strain....

So much of what we don't have is because less than 20 frames per second is even less acceptable then getting exceptional
circumstances aircraft behavior just so.

runyan99
10-21-2009, 09:43 PM
I've tried adjusting the supercharger in a P-47, and nothing happens. If you have the key mapped, and it doesn't seem to be working, is there another problem?

Sillius_Sodus
10-21-2009, 09:48 PM
I believe the supercharger is automatic on the P-47.