PDA

View Full Version : CW-21B Demons in intence dogfights with Zeros over the Dutch East Indies!



DIRTY-MAC
11-12-2004, 02:29 PM
enjoy

DIRTY-MAC
11-12-2004, 03:31 PM
What did you think of it?

FoolTrottel
11-12-2004, 05:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
What did you think of it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't get myself into reading it fully.
Maybe try to OCR it.... make it more readable, and you get more response!

Athosd
11-12-2004, 05:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
What did you think of it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I found it quite easy to read.

Most interesting - many thanks for sharing.

Salute

Athos

KGr.HH-Sunburst
11-12-2004, 06:56 PM
thanks for the read ,very intresting to see how my countrymen did in WW2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DIRTY-MAC
11-13-2004, 05:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KGr.HH-Sunburst:
thanks for the read ,very intresting to see how my countrymen did in WW2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is sad that most people here are just interested in the more famous battles and warbird http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Aero_Shodanjo
11-13-2004, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
What did you think of it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great read. Especially since I'm an Indonesian myself. For those who dont know, Dutch East Indies was the name of Indonesia prior to 1942-43 - I think.

Just sharing here, I was born in a place where the Dutch surrendered to Japan in 1942. Anybody knew what it is? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

GerritJ9
11-13-2004, 04:15 PM
That would be Bandoeng, I think.

DIRTY-MAC
11-15-2004, 02:39 AM
I hope we will be seing this battle front in PF somewere in the future

ElAurens
11-15-2004, 05:24 AM
None of the photos are visible.

Aero_Shodanjo
11-15-2004, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GerritJ9:
That would be Bandoeng, I think. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Almost. It was in Kalijati (Kalidjati) airbase, some 60km north of Bandung (Bandoeng). The house where the Dutch signed the surrender is still intact and there's a hangar converted into a small aircraft museum.

VW-IceFire
11-15-2004, 06:15 AM
I believe Gibbage is the one working on getting this one flying. Should be interesting!

DuxCorvan
11-15-2004, 07:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I believe Gibbage is the one working on getting this one flying. Should be interesting! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, he was doing externals, while Jeronimo was engaged with cockpit. Don't know since long ago, tho.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think it is withought a doubt the best looking WWII fighter that saw combat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And some say this is not a democratic forum! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Willey
11-15-2004, 08:04 AM
What a sucking forum software... where are the pics? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

This board has more bugs than an early alpha of a Maddox sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Aero_Shodanjo
11-15-2004, 08:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willey:
What a sucking forum software... where are the pics? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

This board has more bugs than an early alpha of a Maddox sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see them. It's your browser, maybe?

DIRTY-MAC
11-15-2004, 02:05 PM
Bump

Gibbage1
11-15-2004, 03:11 PM
Well I personally hope to see it flying soon. Its a very interesting aircraft! A US aircraft that was LIGHTER then the Zero, had a FANTASTIC climb rate (4500FPM) and was most likley the only thing competitive in a turn fight with the IJN or JAF birds of the early war like the Ki-43 or A6M2.

Question is, how do you think the little Deamon would fair in IL2's online servers? Early war.

Gib

rugame
11-15-2004, 05:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:


Question is, how do you think the little Deamon would fair in IL2's online servers? Early war.

Gib <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mk108 anyone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
this liitle bird would probably have turned onto your six before the shell got to its intended spot

Be an interesting study thats for sure

DIRTY-MAC
11-16-2004, 04:21 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Well I personally hope to see it flying soon. Its a very interesting aircraft! A US aircraft that was LIGHTER then the Zero, had a FANTASTIC climb rate (4500FPM) and was most likley the only thing competitive in a turn fight with the IJN or JAF birds of the early war like the Ki-43 or A6M2.

Question is, how do you think the little Deamon would fair in IL2's online servers? Early war.

I think it will be a DEAMON
allthough lacking some armour-protection
I think it will be very potent fighter especially with that excellent and steep climbrate
it could even climb upside down,
ifact Erik Shilling (an AVG pilot) said that it would probably
even outclimb a Zero upsidedown,
I even think it can do good on late war server if flown correctly

GerritJ9
11-16-2004, 05:14 AM
One of the Dutch CW21 pilots, who flew Hurricanes towards the end of the Java campaign when almost all the CW21s had been destroyed, had this to say: "The CW21 could outclimb the Zero, but could not outturn it; the Hurricane could do neither."

Gibbage1
11-16-2004, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GerritJ9:
One of the Dutch CW21 pilots, who flew Hurricanes towards the end of the Java campaign when almost all the CW21s had been destroyed, had this to say: "The CW21 could outclimb the Zero, but could not outturn it; the Hurricane could do neither." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You guys will have a lot more performace referances them me. Do any of you guys have any pilot story's on how it flew? Stuff like stalling and charactoristics would help make her not only flyable, but realistic. I need little things like weather it bounced on landing, had high aileron stick force at high speed, Stalled easy or violently. Stuff like that. Not weather it out turned something or not.

If you can send that to gibbage at gibbageart dot com I will compile it and sent it to Oleg.

Aero_Shodanjo
11-16-2004, 01:21 PM
bump! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyone have such datas? I'll be more than eager to give this bird a try too.

And actually what's CW stands for? Ofcourse it's not "Cocke Wulf", no? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

GerritJ9
11-16-2004, 01:43 PM
Gibbage, the only information I have is from "Bloody Shambles" Vol. 1 and 2, plus some info in Hugo Hooftman's book "Van Glenn Martins en Mustangs", a Dutch book which briefly describes the various aircraft used by the ML-KNIL in its history. However, this focuses more on operational history than flight characteristics.
P.C. Boer's two books "De Luchtstrijd boven Borneo" and "De Luchtstrijd om IndiŽ" also have mainly operational history rather than actual flight data, with the exception of such stuff as specifications. The only other source I can think of would be Curtiss-Wright themselves- they are still in business, although no longer as active aeroplane manufacturers. However, I don't see them opening their archives just because some enthusiasts want flight data for an obscure model they built many moons ago.........

Stiglr
11-16-2004, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aero_Shodanjo:
bump! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyone have such datas? I'll be more than eager to give this bird a try too.

And actually what's CW stands for? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Curtiss Wright.

GerritJ9
11-16-2004, 01:48 PM
The CW21B was known as "Interceptor" by the KNIL- the name "Demon" was not used by the KNIL at all.

GerritJ9
11-16-2004, 01:55 PM
The grandfather of one of my contacts flew Brewster B339Ds with 2-Vlg-V over Singapore and the NEI. Perhaps he knows one or two CW21 pilots who are able to provide such information_ will try to get it, but it may make time.

Gibbage1
11-16-2004, 01:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GerritJ9:
The only other source I can think of would be Curtiss-Wright themselves- they are still in business, although no longer as active aeroplane manufacturers. However, I don't see them opening their archives just because some enthusiasts want flight data for an obscure model they built many moons ago......... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was not looking for flight data. I think Oleg has that covered. But more like aircraft charactoristics and quirqs. Like the Zero's roll rate at high speeds, P-47's great dive speed, engine stalling out on the I-153 and I-16 when inverted. Those things. You find those things in pilot stories of the aircraft, not in data performance sheets. Being able to climb upside down is one for the Cw.21b. But I need more to really make this Deamon have a life of its own and not fly like a generic aircraft.

DIRTY-MAC
11-17-2004, 07:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GerritJ9:
The grandfather of one of my contacts flew Brewster B339Ds with 2-Vlg-V over Singapore and the NEI. Perhaps he knows one or two CW21 pilots who are able to provide such information_ will try to get it, but it may make time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please do
That would be extreemly helpful!


By the way
If anyone have any good CW-21 stories please post them here

DIRTY-MAC
11-18-2004, 01:39 AM
BUMP

GerritJ9
11-18-2004, 02:50 PM
Brief update: my contact's grandfather flew Brewsters ONLY and has no first-hand knowledge of the CW21B's behaviour. He did not know the CW pilots very well, they were more like casual professional acquaintances rather than close comrades. However, there are four ML-KNIL reunions annually, and relatives and other interested parties are allowed to attend two of them. My contact will be attending the next "public" event and will try to get in touch with any CW21 pilots still with us.
I have also posted a message requesting information on a Dutch Veterans website and will also be posting the same message on a second site. Don't hold your breath though- the number of CW pilots was relatively small to begin with and sadly, the passing years have seen their number decrease.
Perhaps it might be worth trying to get flight reports from Curtiss-Wright after all- apart from performance data, they most probably will contain notes about the aeroplane's behaviour under various circumstances.

DIRTY-MAC
11-18-2004, 03:06 PM
Thanks!
I really apprecciate what you are doing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I will keep my fingers crossed