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View Full Version : 1C, I have a few questions about the field of Programming.



Maple_Tiger
03-27-2005, 02:15 PM
I applied for a 2 year computer programming course. However, my career counselor wants me to interview 5 imployers about the field.

1) What is the employment out-look for entery level programmers?

2) What is the sallary range?

3)Skills required?

4)Would employment usualy be full time?


Thank you!

Shane,

KillerCharlie
03-27-2005, 04:46 PM
If you really want to do programming, I would say get a 4 year degree (BS in computer science) at a University.

NorrisMcWhirter
03-27-2005, 04:50 PM
^ agreed. It's not a bad field to get into because you'd have a numerate degree. And you should always be able to get a decent job with a numerate degree.

However, I'd suggest that you went into a growth industry, such as being a manager responsible for laying n thousand people off on behalf of faceless, greedy shareholders just because the company didn't make 15% growth but only 14.98%

That appears to be the order of the day.

Norris

Maple_Tiger
03-27-2005, 05:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KillerCharlie:
If you really want to do programming, I would say get a 4 year degree (BS in computer science) at a University. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I might just do that. I can always transfer to a third year in computer science.

Aaron_GT
03-28-2005, 01:56 AM
Tiger,

I don't mean to be a nitpicking pain-in-the-***, but before interviewing for jobs please improve your spelling. When I've looked through resumes before deciding on which to interview the ones with spelling mistakes have gone straight into the rejection pile. It may sound harsh, but a lot of employers do this to reduce the number of applications to a reasonable number, so it is wise to be aware of this.

BBB_Hyperion
03-28-2005, 03:04 AM
Maybe its not his first language .)

crazyivan1970
03-28-2005, 04:21 AM
So you know, there is a post in sukhoi.ru by Oleg, 1C is hiring ... but their requirements are brutal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WhiskeyBravo
03-28-2005, 05:07 AM
Purely out of interest CrazyIvan could you post up the requirements they are looking for?

WB.

BBB_Hyperion
03-28-2005, 05:14 AM
Well be sure to check the income too . Cause i guess you will hardly find any developer that takes a job with less income if not needed .)

Maple_Tiger
03-28-2005, 09:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
So you know, there is a post in sukhoi.ru by Oleg, 1C is hiring ... but their requirements are brutal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I haven't even gotton past using cout to write words to the screen lol.

OldMan____
03-28-2005, 11:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
So you know, there is a post in sukhoi.ru by Oleg, 1C is hiring ... but their requirements are brutal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If at least speaking russian was not a requirement :P

NorrisMcWhirter
03-28-2005, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
So you know, there is a post in sukhoi.ru by Oleg, 1C is hiring ... but their requirements are brutal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I haven't even gotton past using cout to write words to the screen lol. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

cout? cout?

That's that namby pamby OO C++ business, isn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Norris

WWSensei
03-28-2005, 01:08 PM
I work in the software programming business (currently managing 3 development teams) as well. I also happen to have an open position for a C++ programmer. If interested PM me and I'll provide the details.

Aaron_GT
03-28-2005, 04:21 PM
I'm not sure C++ is where I'd start with regards to programming as due to its roots in C it allows you (in terms of design) get away with murder, whilst doing clever things can cause a big segmentation violation. You can certainly write fast code in it (although you can beat it in Fortran, if you are a masochist).

Given the way most corporate programming is going, Maple, I'd look at learning OO principles as much as possible, plus learning about the requirements of enterprise programming (client/server, sockets, distributed systems, etc) and object creation, persistence, and lifecycle, and the software lifecycle. Oh, and interaction with databases. Those are the sort of things a lot of clients will want, and are applicable whether the underlying implementation is C, C++, Java or .NET. The latter are all similar enough in principle (although the devil is always in the detail, and in the number of different libraries you can use) that you can then swap between them with lesser amounts of retraining. If you have the underlying enterprise programming principles under your belt and get a job doing C++ and later you need to swap to Java, it will be easier. And to a certain extent, with the amount of UML based development, development with rapid app tools and the like the need to do large amounts of boilerplate code by hand may reduce, with the emphasis being on tweaking the boilerplate parts to get it to actually work!

(My opinion anyway)

Maple_Tiger
03-28-2005, 06:46 PM
Some good points Aaron. The course doesn't start until Sept. That being said, I thought I would get my feet wet before I even get into the class room lol. The course covers alot of stuff - too much to list lol.

OldMan____
03-28-2005, 07:20 PM
Well. learn OO.. is importatn. But I suggest skip **** books you find around today. Go to source and read Booch and original papers on subject. many books today (and Universities) bring a corrupted OO .. in the sense of a fanatical view. OO will not save the world .. it did not saved it at 80´s when it was proposed and doe snot save now.. even the new paradigms more advanced than OO don´t save the world http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. So keep mind open. Everytime you read something about a technique solving all problems and being perfect... " close that book and never open again!"


Also keep C++ as a main focus if you want game devel. Python and other high level languages are good complements.

But Java is really not for games... every single attempt to prove the contrary suffers from one or other JAva problem (including some project I work on). Just read latest John carmack .plan update (his blog at armadillo) and you will see his opinion. Java may be usefull as a SECONDARY language. But after experiences I had with it in hug projects.. I prefer to face ASM than Java

Aaron_GT
03-29-2005, 05:43 AM
Yes, don't bother with the 'standard' C++ text, Stroustrup!

Actually java is used for games quite a bit, but mostly the ones on mobile phones and so on. Which is going to be bigger in the future - high performance shoot 'em ups or little games on phones I wouldn't like to say.

Python has some nice features, but suffers from some of the same problems as java: it can be slow (anything up to a couple of orders of magnitude compared to C or C++). It's great for putting something together quickly, though, with no dependence on the OS so you can test it on multiple platforms without needing to really get into the differences between those platforms. Ditto java. You then have the option of recoding the bits that need higher performance in C/C++/whatever and calling them from the python or java. It depends a bit on whether you are going down the 'Extreme Programming' route or not.

Aaron_GT
03-29-2005, 05:45 AM
Maple - it might be worth giving Aspect Oriented Programming a look too. That seeks to address some of the issues of OO in real applications. (i.e. things you can do with OO, but are a pain to do cleanly typically).

WWSensei
03-29-2005, 12:50 PM
Would have to agree to focus on OO. Also don't confuse web page creation with some Java tools to be "Java Programming". When I interview for an open position I get tons of Java programmers applying for the positions, but they seem more trained in the "cool" parts of Java rather than in algorithm or product design. Dime a dozen and 11 usually aren't worth the interview. However, Java seems to be the language du jour of most colleges these days.

Wish they would concentrate more on actually problem solving and deisgn skills. We do about 95% C++ programming with only a smattering of Java and .Net programming. Most of that is just in UI work.

mazexx
03-29-2005, 01:29 PM
Being a software consultant in the financial sphere I have to add this:

Don't forget to learn the fundamentals of database theory and usage. It will always spice your application up if you can add ER-modelling, good SQL knowlege and some RDBMS' that you can handle well. If you are not going to program games or real time software it is in the database that 95% of the execution time goes today...