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Cippacometa
12-04-2004, 04:25 AM
I have no idea how it could look like a nightfighter mission... I also don't know how radar cockpit controls and screens of WWII airplanes looked like...

But I suspect that including some flyable nightfighters in the game would be a major novelty.
We already have several of them already modeled: Bf.110, Corsair, Beaufighter, P-38, Me.262...).
The "only" need is to add the external antennas (with some drag) and the cockpit controls.

ExtraG
12-04-2004, 04:54 AM
Well, I guess this'd be very complicated. Don't know if it'd possible with that engine we have in PF/AEP/FB...

If you want to implement really realistic night fighters, you have to make working radars and AI that'd control it and that'd guiding you on the target through whole process of interception...also, there were different radars for different versions of planes (look at Beaufighter...) and it'd take ages to learn how to "read" from them...

I would love the night fighters too, but I think we won't see it too soon...

NAFP_supah
12-04-2004, 06:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ExtraG:
Well, I guess this'd be very complicated. Don't know if it'd possible with that engine we have in PF/AEP/FB...

If you want to implement really realistic night fighters, you have to make working radars and AI that'd control it and that'd guiding you on the target through whole process of interception...also, there were different radars for different versions of planes (look at Beaufighter...) and it'd take ages to learn how to "read" from them...

I would love the night fighters too, but I think we won't see it too soon... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This subject has been raised here and in ORR in the past and most of the time it was said to be impossible or to hard to be worthwhile. Technically I am not so sure if its undoable. Take the map display, you can set it up as a radar like thing, it showing you planes and such. So the code is there, you would need to set up parameters for when a plane is in view of the radar and you'd have to display it in an authentic manner. Though the latter could also be dumbed down a bit (as an option perhaps) for those who just want to play with it and not invest the time to learn how to use it authentically.

Alternatively one could outsource the job of operating the radar to the AI, most ww2 nightfighters had a seperate radar operator.

For GCI (Ground Controlled Intercepts) type of missions one could expand on the "vector to target" bit.

As for the nightfighters themselves modelwise ... A lot of them were modified dayfighters. Anything from 110's to 109's were used as night fighters. Before the advent of radar sets small enough to fit in a fighter these were basically standard dayfighters, sometimes not even with a adapted paintscheme. in other cases the radar antenna's would have to be modeled.

I would love a nightfighter component to this simulation and would gladly pay for it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Wether I am part of a larger group in that remains to be seen.

Fornixx
12-04-2004, 07:14 AM
I remember the discussion going something like, technically possible but to big an addon for Il2/FB. And one other problem is to little interest in the subject among players. Can't motivate the work for 100 nightfighter fans.

Would be dead cool though. Let's hope for a night fighter add on for BoB.

S!

flemsha
12-04-2004, 07:25 AM
I for one would love to see night-fighters in PF/FB http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aaron_GT
12-04-2004, 07:42 AM
If you look at the stats for contacts per sortie (let alone kills per sortie) even with radar you will see that whilst nightfighters could be interesting the experience is going to be too dull for most players unless it is made realistic.

WereSnowleopard
12-04-2004, 09:00 AM
If Oleg still work on BOB 2005, then let's see how it's engine working...maybe he will try do night fighter modeling.

Cheers
Snowleopard

tora-2
12-04-2004, 09:35 AM
I can't see it being feasible to have working radar sets. Each would have to be accurately modelled, there are many variants and it'd take an age to learn to interpret them.

What might be feasible would be a back seat driver giving some sort of commentary, left a bit etc.

I have also wondered how it would play with say Beaufighters versus He111 , instead of a radar operator the map could display icons as mentioned above. I am not sure it would ever be feasible to have icons only showing for one side on the map, or only showing within certain arcs.

With night fighters already in the game it is tempting.

Airmail109
12-04-2004, 09:37 AM
As long as theres a mossie ill be happy.........mmmmmmmmmmm.........mossie http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Snootles
12-04-2004, 09:40 AM
I don't know how feasible it is for FB/PF, but I definitely know there WILL be night-fighters in BoB. Early dev shots showed models of a Blenheim Mk. IF (first radar-equipped plane ever) and Defiant Mk. IA.

Aaron_GT
12-04-2004, 02:23 PM
I'm definitely looking forward to night fighters myself. It would be great to have the actual sets, but as suggested I think the most practical thing is to have the back seat operator giving directions as actually happened in WW2, plus of course ground control (especially for the cats eyes only fighters!).

I do have concerns about how easy it will be to replicate things like dark adaptation of the high, acuity of vision (already an issue) and sufficient contrast levels. Those as much issues of our current video technology as anything else.

But if it is realistic we'll spend most of the time flying around not making contact with the enemy, at least for BoB anyway. I have a book by Ken Delve which lists sorties and kills, and kills were few and far between in the 1940-41 period! The biggest danger to a night fighter crew at the time certainly wasn't defensive fire from the enemy - it was the danger of night flying!

As a side note the 109 was preferred as a cats eye nightfighter in the LW due to its narrow track, relatively weak landing gear. If you made a very heavy night landing the gear tended to fold back up. In the 190 the gear was more solid and you tended to flip upside down. A much more dangerous crash.

Waldo.Pepper
12-04-2004, 05:14 PM
Popular night fighters we could have, I think with a little work. (from a non modeler).

Bf110
Ju-88

Mosquito
Havoc

Irving.

and of course the fabulous P-61.

But only if we can get Oleg to make RADAR.

jeroen-79
12-04-2004, 06:06 PM
Unless they would go for 'generic' radar equipment the biggest challenge would researching all the equipment used by the real deal.

wt555
12-04-2004, 06:11 PM
A P-61 Black Widow would be something else. That would probably be a simulator on its own.

wt555
12-04-2004, 06:17 PM
For you P-61 fans, check this site out. http://www.maam.org/p61.html

x__CRASH__x
12-04-2004, 06:56 PM
Waldo and I have been exploring the possibility of getting the P-61 radar modeled when the P-61 comes out.

Hell could freeze before this happens, but I'm still hopeful.

Waldo.Pepper
12-04-2004, 11:04 PM
Sorry if I am talking out of school. If I am somebody slap my wrist. I hear from Planeeater that there is likely enough material to do the inside of the P-61, but he won't start the work until Oleg does RADAR.

So its up to us to bug, I mean ask as nicely and with as much deference as we can manage to get Oleg to do so.

I think it would be great.

Aaron_GT
12-05-2004, 03:02 AM
"Sorry if I am talking out of school. If I am somebody slap my wrist. I hear from Planeeater that there is likely enough material to do the inside of the P-61,"

Which version? The inside varied considerably between versions.

I've offered to get access to a Mosquito NF.II to make that one possible, although I suspect we may not see the Mossie until BoB anyway.

triggerhappyfin
12-05-2004, 03:13 AM
<span class="ev_code_RED">What about a night fighter add-on?</span>

Not for me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Momma wont let me stay up long enough http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif