PDA

View Full Version : Spitfires



SpitfireSeafire
07-09-2005, 03:06 PM
I am a lover of Spitfires, and I know at least of few other people other too. I am wondering, do any of the later war spitfires compare in speed to the late war Bf109s and Focke-Wulfs?

jarink
07-09-2005, 03:40 PM
I don't know the exact numbers, but I know the Spitfire XIV with the Griffon engine (unfortunately not in the game) was faster than most other fighters. About 450mph, I think.

SpitfireSeafire
07-09-2005, 04:21 PM
How about any ingame ones?

Monty_Thrud
07-09-2005, 05:06 PM
No, we're stuck in '43 early '44...but i trust Oleg to supply us with a flyable Tempest '44 and a Mk XIV Spitfire...aaaannnndddd...if we pray hard enough a 25Lber MkIXe...i'm in church as i speak...7...11 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

ImpStarDuece
07-09-2005, 07:39 PM
Well, if your talking about very late marks the Spitfire 21 prototype made 460 mph on 10 September 1943 according to RAF Boscombe Downe. The service planes generally topped out at about 450mph.

Of the Spitfires that saw siginifcant war service:

Spitfire XIV: 445 Mph at 25,000 feet
Spitifre IX H.F.: 415 Mph at 27,500 feet
Spitfire VIII: 405 Mph at 20,000 feet


Best speeds down low were;

Spitfire XIV (+21lbs boost) 365 at sea level
415 at 12,000 feet
Spitifre IX (+25lbs boost) 355 mph at sea level
367 at 3,500-8,000 feet
Spitfire XII (+12lbs [Griffon III]) 355 mph at sea level
372 at 6,000-9,000 feet

In game the fastest Spifire is the IXe H.F. 415 mph at 27,500

ImpStarDuece
07-09-2005, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
No, we're stuck in '43 early '44...but i trust Oleg to supply us with a flyable Tempest '44 and a Mk XIV Spitfire...aaaannnndddd...if we pray hard enough a 25Lber MkIXe...i'm in church as i speak...7...11 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

If we have to be stuck in 1943 then give us a Spitfire XII with a Griffon IV http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Specifically designed as a low atltiude version of the Spitfire, it was the first mark to see service with a Griffon engine. Saw combat with No 41 and 91 squadrons from Feburary 1943 all the way through to September 1944.


These comments are taken from the Combat trials of the XII;



CONCLUSIONS

17. The Spitfire XII handles in general better than the previous marks of Spitfire. Its longitudinal stabililty has been improved, but the rudder control is not at present completely satisfactory, as it needs constant re-trimming and is rather heavy.

18. The aircraft fills the category of a low-altitude fighter extremely well, being capable of speeds of 372 m.p.h. at 5,700 feet, and 397 m.p.h. at 18,000 feet.

19. The climb is not as good as the rest of the performance in general, being inferior to the Spitfire IX (R.M. 10 SM) and similar to the Spitfire V at 16 lb. boost up to 10,000 feet. The operational ceiling (with clipped wings) is about 28,500 feet. Modifications already in hand should improve the rate of climb, especially at low altitudes.

20. The aircraft dives well and benefits from having its wing tips clipped.

21. Manoeuvrability is excellent particularly in its rate of roll.

22. The sighting view over the nose has been slightly increased to give a total deflection allowance of 120 m.p.h.

23. The similarity of design to Spitfires V and IX, will make its identification by the enemy difficult.

VW-IceFire
07-09-2005, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by SpitfireSeafire:
I am a lover of Spitfires, and I know at least of few other people other too. I am wondering, do any of the later war spitfires compare in speed to the late war Bf109s and Focke-Wulfs?
In-game? The Spitfire VIII and IX models are roughly as fast as their Bf109G-6A/s and FW190A-6 models. The A-8 I think is faster at some altitudes (usually lower) and the later 109s are faster depending on MW50 engine boost being used or being a later version which are just faster overall.

If we get a Spitfire Mark XIV in the game (its been built but its not in there yet) then it will be competitive with even the Bf109K-4 model. Those two would be considered the ultimate of their wartime models and good near equal competitors in combat.

Monty_Thrud
07-10-2005, 02:59 AM
Sorry..i thought he meant in-game...oops

Note to self...never post in forums after the pub http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We were going to get the Mk 22, but time, apparently, ran out

Heres what should be in (fingers and toes crossed) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MkXIV

http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//xiv4.bmp

And what will never be http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Mk22
http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania///spit22promo.jpg
http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania///spit22...jpg
http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania///Spit22Mk22a.jpg
http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//spitfire7.jpg


Here's hoping

SkyCobra
07-10-2005, 04:46 AM
I'd love to get the Mk22

DRAGON_2_GO
07-10-2005, 06:44 AM
ME TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Utchoud
07-10-2005, 06:55 AM
Wow, the Mk.22 is a real beauty... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Arms1
07-10-2005, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
No, we're stuck in '43 early '44...but i trust Oleg to supply us with a flyable Tempest '44 and a Mk XIV Spitfire...aaaannnndddd...if we pray hard enough a 25Lber MkIXe...i'm in church as i speak...7...11 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

If we have to be stuck in 1943 then give us a Spitfire XII with a Griffon IV http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Specifically designed as a low atltiude version of the Spitfire, it was the first mark to see service with a Griffon engine. Saw combat with No 41 and 91 squadrons from Feburary 1943 all the way through to September 1944.


These comments are taken from the Combat trials of the XII;



CONCLUSIONS

17. The Spitfire XII handles in general better than the previous marks of Spitfire. Its longitudinal stabililty has been improved, but the rudder control is not at present completely satisfactory, as it needs constant re-trimming and is rather heavy.

18. The aircraft fills the category of a low-altitude fighter extremely well, being capable of speeds of 372 m.p.h. at 5,700 feet, and 397 m.p.h. at 18,000 feet.

19. The climb is not as good as the rest of the performance in general, being inferior to the Spitfire IX (R.M. 10 SM) and similar to the Spitfire V at 16 lb. boost up to 10,000 feet. The operational ceiling (with clipped wings) is about 28,500 feet. Modifications already in hand should improve the rate of climb, especially at low altitudes.

20. The aircraft dives well and benefits from having its wing tips clipped.

21. Manoeuvrability is excellent particularly in its rate of roll.

22. The sighting view over the nose has been slightly increased to give a total deflection allowance of 120 m.p.h.

23. The similarity of design to Spitfires V and IX, will make its identification by the enemy difficult. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

wasn't the XII PRU?..ooops thats the XI

EPP_Gibbs
07-11-2005, 03:32 AM
To answer the posters question, the MkIX Spits we have ingame are competetive with the 109's and 190's of their period but not quite as fast as the '44 and '45 model 109's (G10/G14/K4) and the 190D. They should (historically, at any rate) out turn any of them though, so try and sucker them into an angles fight if they're being cagey.

The Mk XIV Spitfire, on the other hand could live with any of them, with a top speed approaching 450mph at 25k feet and strong performance at hight alt. Off the deck it had a superb rate of climb too. If this aircraft is modelled correctly it will have a low down performance not wildly better than a late MkIX but as alt increased will leave the IX standing. The high alt K4 Z&B brigade will have something to worry about.

To my knowledge the Mk22 and Mk24 did not see active service, certainly in the European theatre, before the end of hostilities in 1945 and I for one would be happy enough if the Sptifires represented in this sim ended at the Mk XIV as being the last variant with resonable production numbers and seeing a decent ammount of action (including being the first allied fighter to down an ME262).

The Mk22 and Mk24 were outstanding, superior in performance even to the XIV, with excellent handling and roll, having been given enlarged tail surfaces and improved ailerons, but a line has to be drawn somewhere. Because if these craft were accurately modelled they would be too 'uber' for balanced gameplay and it's unfair to represent post war red A/C when the blue side had no such opportunity. (aside from experimentals, prototypes, blueprints, etc).

WOLFMondo
07-11-2005, 05:48 AM
The Mk22 saw exceptionally limited service before the end of the war.

The XIV if modelled correctly will probably be the best high altitude fighter going. That big engine, the big wings that give good grip on the air up high and the ceiling of 44,000ft means that it will be a great answer to the Ta152. Its low altitude performance is lacking though and is certainly sub par compared with the very last versions of the A and D FW's and late G and K 109's so was only ever used as a medium and high altitude fighter (the 2nd TAF XIV's would work with 2nd TAF Tempest V's) but its rate of climb is unbeatable and over 25,000ft it will be very hard to beat. Its probably one of, if not the best piston powered interceptors and dogfighters ever built.

I think it was Galland who said "the best thing about the Spitfire XIV was there were so few of them."

Johnny Johnson also said about it "Its a great aircraft but not a Spitfire".

I guess thats down to its slightly worse turning circle than the IX, torque going the other way and the increase in weight meant it mushed a little in turns.

IceFire, I'd have to disagree, upto 6000m the A6 is superior in speed. The IX and VIII are competative below 6000 without a doubt but the FW190 A6 is allot faster in my experiance anyways.

Biggs01
07-11-2005, 06:35 AM
Hi Guys,

Nice to see those old renders, after all this time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Shame time ran out on the Mk22, but I only ever had limited time to work on the Spit anyway. In the end I imported the mesh into FS9 and fly it around on occasion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Going to work on an Eagle engined Tempest sometime soon, that should be worth a few laughs!

As far as I remember no Mk22's made it to front line service before hostilites ceased, tho there were a few Mk21's that performed armed recon over the Dutch coast, did some shipping strikes, etc. The Mk21's were the high-back version (No bubble canopy)

Cheers,

Biggs

Utchoud
07-11-2005, 07:03 AM
I have the same info as Biggs - Mk.21 saw some service but no combat before the end of the war. Mk. 22 to 24 - not.

I'd love to fly the Mk.22 in FB/PF, but at least it's a beutiful plane to look at.

Monty_Thrud
07-11-2005, 07:23 AM
Does anyone have any news on the MkXIV Spitfire?, in ORR its still waiting for the CP...is it finished?...whose on with it?...some information would be much appreciated, as i've chewed my nails to the bone and have started on my toenails http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Abbuzze
07-11-2005, 07:38 AM
The best of the bread in the game is the IX HF.
Superior to all others in the game.
This is mainly my sight from a 109G10 cockpit.

It´s by far the best turning(even at the deck) and best energy saving Spitfire. Properly flown it´s a good match even vs the late german fighters.

Tvrdi
07-11-2005, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
The XIV if modelled correctly will probably be the best high altitude fighter going. That big engine, the big wings that give good grip on the air up high and the ceiling of 44,000ft means that it will be a great answer to the Ta152......


Ta152 is weaker and slower up high than it was in Rl (according to the docs)....he is seriously underpoered at those high alts...i really wonder why its so slow up high because it could reach better speeds at those alts...try it and do some testing

btw i would like to see MkIVs and MK22s(this one for "what if" scenarios)...

Brutus_22
07-11-2005, 09:31 AM
Does anyone know what the (CW) means after the Spitfire Designation. eg Mk V L.H. (CW).

Thanks

Monty_Thrud
07-11-2005, 09:37 AM
CW = Clipped Wing

http://premium1.uploadit.org/bsamania//xiv6.bmp

p1ngu666
07-11-2005, 04:59 PM
XIV would perform simerly to mw50 109s
better in turn (pandora's box!) similer climb and speed.

some 30mph faster than IX at all hieghts, i think

faustnik
07-11-2005, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Brutus_22:
Does anyone know what the (CW) means after the Spitfire Designation. eg Mk V L.H. (CW).

Thanks

Clipped wings. The RAF used this to counter the Fw190's roll rate and speed at low altitude.


Darn, too slow. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Abbuzze
07-12-2005, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brutus_22:
Does anyone know what the (CW) means after the Spitfire Designation. eg Mk V L.H. (CW).

Thanks

Clipped wings. The RAF used this to counter the Fw190's roll rate and speed at low altitude.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And Closterman said they calld the CW variants:

Clipped-cr@pped-cropped http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ImpStarDuece
07-12-2005, 04:42 AM
Actually, that's Clipped, Cropped, Clapped

as in;

Clipped wings,
Cropped Supercharger and
Clapped-out old airframes.

Clipping the wings, cropping the supercharger impellers (to lower the blower heights) and refitting Spitifre Vc (mostly) airframes with Merlin 46s, 50Ms and 55Ms added a useful 12-18 months to the Spitfires combat life.

A Spitfire V with a low-alt rated 50M at +18lbs, clipped wings and refined exhaust stubs could reach 355-360 mph at 6000 feet. It also climbed at over 4,700 fpm below 5000 feet and above 4000 fpm until 10,000 feet. It was only 10-15 degrees per second slower than a 190 in the roll and accelerated better than almost any other mark of Spitfire.

Tazzers1968
07-12-2005, 05:52 AM
Originally posted by Abbuzze:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brutus_22:
Does anyone know what the (CW) means after the Spitfire Designation. eg Mk V L.H. (CW).

Thanks

Clipped wings. The RAF used this to counter the Fw190's roll rate and speed at low altitude.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And Closterman said they calld the CW variants:

Clipped-cr@pped-cropped http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do us a favour Abbuzze. Put what Clo Clo said into context please it sounds like your are insulting the Brits, I am sure you are not.

The comment refers to the extensive use these aircraft saw, they were worked extremely hard and many of them had seen better days. He wasn't insulting the design. I just wanted to get the record straight.

Phil http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Abbuzze
07-12-2005, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by Tazzers1968:

Do us a favour Abbuzze. Put what Clo Clo said into context please it sounds like your are insulting the Brits, I am sure you are not.

The comment refers to the extensive use these aircraft saw, they were worked extremely hard and many of them had seen better days. He wasn't insulting the design. I just wanted to get the record straight.

Phil http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

First I have to say sorry, rememberd the Clostermans quote wrong, Impstar you are right!
Tazzer, sorry if you thought that I would like to insult the brits, that wasn´t mine intention.

Maybe the spit, but never the brits!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif just kidding.

If I remember correct, Closterman disliked the SpitV CW cause he had to fly escourt missions with it above the best altitude of this plane. Especially cause he flow the IX before.
Not realy the best duties for this version of the spitfire!