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ZBrisk
07-12-2008, 01:16 AM
I've had IL2 for a couple months now and gotten the hang of things, doing the dynamic campaign with DCG mostly. A few issues in single player have been bothering me though...

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>How do I keep AI from being ******ed and crashing into each other all the time? (Changing all the squadrons to only have one flight at a time has sort of fixed this)

<LI>Why do escorts seem to fly AWAY whenever enemy fighters attack the bombers they're supposed to protect?

<LI>How do I spot targets before diving? Usually this isn't a problem, but in a recent mission I couldn't find anything. With a bunch of Polish fighters on us, I dove to deck and searched the area but still no luck. The other stukas just said "unable to comply" when told to "attack all ground targets". So I tried the mission again with autopilot on the whole time...turns out the target was 6 or 7 km (assuming the little squares are km) away from the bomb waypoint. How I was I supposed to find that?!

<LI>How do I get the stukas of my flight to actually attack ground targets? On the occasion they do comply, it doesn't seem to do anything.

<LI>Is there a way to have IL-2 run unpaused in the background? I want to alt-tab out during the long trips. Even time skip takes too long.
[/list]

Friendly_flyer
07-12-2008, 03:50 AM
1) Some of the behaviour of the AI is scripted, not really AI at all. This is particularly true of planes on the ground. If you want a squadron with more than one flight, make sure they take off at the same time from the same side of the runway.

2) If you you are using the full mission builder, fighters needs to have their waypoints "set" to the corresponding bombers waypoints. Just click on "set" for the waypoint and then click on the appropriate bomber waypoint. Repeat for all waypoints where you want the fighters to escort the bombers. Still, fighter pilots tend to fly off and engage fighters. This was a frequent complaint from the Luftwaffe bombers during BoB, so I guess it's fairly accurate behaviour from the AI.

3) Let some of your squadron mates make the first attack runs, then follow them in.

4) Make yourself a cup of tea while the 8X timeskip does it's job.

SeaFireLIV
07-12-2008, 06:20 AM
I don`t do bombers, but I do fly DCG exclusively, so i`ll try and say my bit.

1. I haven`t noticed this. Maybe it`s to do with the number of squads.

2. Not seen this at all. It could be they`re manouevering to attack? But no, haven`t seen this at all. Guess this is a bomber issue? When flying with fighters they always engage attacking fighters on bombers. But maybe they get distracted by enemy fighters that pull them away?

3. Often a target is not always EXACTLY where the brief says it is. sometimes it has moved from its current location (like trains or mobile units), sometimes it may already be destroyed, especially if it`s DCg where other units may engage your target before you get there. Intelligence is rarely perfect on enemy placements. I actually enjoy reaching the target area then going on a mini-search for the target. It`s actually realistic.

4. I don`t fly bombers so do not know.

5. Well, I just press the Skip mode and read a book or do some artwork until I`m engaged. You can alt-tab into the back ground and minimize it while it runs (haven`t you tried?), but it can play up with some functions.

BWaltteri
07-12-2008, 01:28 PM
I don't fly DCG. I've tried it few times but I "didn't like" what was going on. Ju-88's behaved so weirdly that I went back to the house design, exclusively.

Saburo_0
07-12-2008, 02:01 PM
Well I use map icons which helps find targets. And the padlock ground targets function puts a nice little triangle pointing to the ground targets. Once i can actually see the targets I turn it off. This may not be realistic enough for you but it is fun for me.

Can't get killed every time I encounter VVS fighters in my Ju87G tho. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/disagree.gif

ZBrisk
07-12-2008, 03:29 PM
1. I haven`t noticed this. Maybe it`s to do with the number of squads.

Really? It seems to happen at least a few times every mission when I have more than one flight per squadron. Over the radio you'll hear two planes give a mayday call simultaneously.


Still, fighter pilots tend to fly off and engage fighters. This was a frequent complaint from the Luftwaffe bombers during BoB, so I guess it's fairly accurate behaviour from the AI.

2. Not seen this at all. It could be they`re manouevering to attack? But no, haven`t seen this at all. Guess this is a bomber issue? When flying with fighters they always engage attacking fighters on bombers. But maybe they get distracted by enemy fighters that pull them away?

In my last experience that may be what happened. I think I saw two enemy flights attack us when our escorts decided to go after the one that was 5km away. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


3. Often a target is not always EXACTLY where the brief says it is. sometimes it has moved from its current location (like trains or mobile units), sometimes it may already be destroyed, especially if it`s DCg where other units may engage your target before you get there. Intelligence is rarely perfect on enemy placements. I actually enjoy reaching the target area then going on a mini-search for the target. It`s actually realistic.

Hmmm...well, the instance I described was a bit of an aberration anyway.


You can alt-tab into the back ground and minimize it while it runs (haven`t you tried?), but it can play up with some functions.

That's exactly what I asked about...the game is paused whenever I alt-tab from it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

ZBrisk
07-12-2008, 09:07 PM
*bump*

So, any way to get IL-2 to run while minimized?

WTE_Galway
07-13-2008, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by ZBrisk:
I've had IL2 for a couple months now and gotten the hang of things, doing the dynamic campaign with DCG mostly. A few issues in single player have been bothering me though...

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>How do I keep AI from being ******ed and crashing into each other all the time? (Changing all the squadrons to only have one flight at a time has sort of fixed this)

<LI>Why do escorts seem to fly AWAY whenever enemy fighters attack the bombers they're supposed to protect?

<LI>How do I spot targets before diving? Usually this isn't a problem, but in a recent mission I couldn't find anything. With a bunch of Polish fighters on us, I dove to deck and searched the area but still no luck. The other stukas just said "unable to comply" when told to "attack all ground targets". So I tried the mission again with autopilot on the whole time...turns out the target was 6 or 7 km (assuming the little squares are km) away from the bomb waypoint. How I was I supposed to find that?!

<LI>How do I get the stukas of my flight to actually attack ground targets? On the occasion they do comply, it doesn't seem to do anything.

<LI>Is there a way to have IL-2 run unpaused in the background? I want to alt-tab out during the long trips. Even time skip takes too long.
[/list]

1. Loosen formation helps with your own flight. Mid air collisions seem to me to take place more often with accelerated time as well.

2. The ways of the great AI are mysterious and unfathomable.

3. Trains and vehicles tend to move. Bridges tend not to. With map icons enabled its not too hard to find the likely candidates. With map icons off, take lots of fuel.

4. padlock and "attack my target" is the only thing that reliably works.

5. No idea ... maybe a second screen ?

unreasonable
07-18-2008, 11:41 AM
I fly offline only using DCG and have noticed some of your issues - I normally keep a Lotus spreadsheet of the units pilots with kills/losses per sortie and I have noticed that in my usual Barbarossa campaigns flying Me109s against the usual assortment of soviet a/c about 30-50% of pilot losses or about 10-20% of a/c losses are due to blue on blue incidents or accidents when flying with 2 flights of 4 a/c, eg

a) Number 1 and 3 collide when diving on a target, especially if it is low and slow like a recce biplane. This happens so often that I now groan whenever I see a lone recce a/c....

b) Number 2 or 4 shoot down their leader when all the a/c in a flight are chasing the last enemy survivor.

c) Number 1 and 2, or 3 and 4 collide in the port turn into the landing pattern after the descent from cruise altitude. This one is very strange but it is possible that one of the a/c was slightly damaged in such a way as to throw off its normal AI performance, but I am not sure about this. Seen this twice right in front of me in the last 100 or so sorties, and I suspect it happens in the AI squadrons as well based on the amount of screaming you often hear in the landing chatter...

d) If the runway has debris on it from a raid the AI may try to land anyway and crash.

Flying 2 flights of 2 helps alot with the collisions but it does mean that a single loss to your side can suddenly turn a fight against you even against rookie opposition, so you have to take extra care of your wingman, which is good really. Attacking bombers becomes particularly hazardous.

Leading the first flight reduces the collision risks even more, but there is so much more to worry about that I do not recommend this until you have at least a few dozen flying hours in the specific type under your belt.

On the escorts heading away from attacking fighters I have seen this a couple of times and it is very odd - I think the AI is intially turning away to get the right angle and set up for an attack, and then finds itself outside the "bubble" if the enemy a/c have dived off in the opposite direction. Having lost the enemy and the bombers, it now calls out the next waypoint and heads for it - this usually being one of the low points circling the base which the AI ignored once it had "joined up". It will then attempt to fly all the waypoints again (running out of fuel in the process). Your options are to follow back to base, land and reprt him for cowardice or to engage the enemy yourself and then call for help.

On attacking ground targets, I assume the one you had problems with was a supply convoy or tank column rather than an airfield or bridge. These things move along DCG's routes, normally along roads, until they reach the front so if you are flying German and you cannot find the target at the target waypoint it will be somewhere along the road towards the german side, west usually, revealed by it's dust cloud....

Unfortunately there is quite a lot of what I would call operational AI (as opposed to the dogfighting AI) which in IL2 has always been poor and sometimes just utter rubbish, (like the difficulty of getting AI to bomb, getting wingmen to rtb in certain circumstances, damaged a/c not rtbing, leaders loitering around enemy flak until shot down grr). These issues were never fixed and our only hope is that the evil modders get round to the AI and can fix some of the broken code, but I think this is will be impossible unless IL2 is really "open sourced".

In the mean time, I have found that only flying fighters and never flying as number 2 or 3 in a flight allows me to enjoy the many fine things about IL2 without being driven to apoplexy by the very bad parts.

One can only hope that BoB does not suffer from these faults, but I am not holding my breath, given the developer indifference to the needs of offline players, and how much developer time has been wasted on wavy grass, wavy waves and London buses. Of course I will buy it anyway...hope triumphs over experience.

TinyTim
07-18-2008, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by ZBrisk:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI>Is there a way to have IL-2 run unpaused in the background? I want to alt-tab out during the long trips. Even time skip takes too long.
[/list]

Uh, I am not sure if it's possible to do offline, but online I sometimes take off, set for climb in the direction away from enemy, trim aircraft really really carefully, alt-tab out of the sim, browse a couple of forums, have a cup of tea, read some news, and come back into the sim after a few minutes, being already 8km or 10km high http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Works great with american fighters due to all axis trim.