PDA

View Full Version : When Oleg nerfed the 109's prop pitch...



MEGILE
06-28-2006, 12:39 PM
did he remove a legitimate exploit from the sim, or was it justified?
Some have previously posted evidence of experten using prop pitch during combat, but Oleg decided to change it anyway.

thefruitbat
06-28-2006, 12:49 PM
What was actually changed? I know how it is now, but i never really used prop pitch before it was changed. Tried searching for this before, but to many threads on 109 prop pitch...

cheers fruitbat

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-28-2006, 12:49 PM
Exploit. Removal justified...be sure.


TB

justflyin
06-28-2006, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
Exploit. Removal justified...be sure.


TB

+1

Now, we just need 1C to take another little looksee at the 109-G2 and we can all sleep better at night. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

F6_Ace
06-28-2006, 02:01 PM
While he's looking at the G2, perhaps he can look at the delta wood *exploit* affecting his prize stock of VVS aircraft, too?

No, it wasn't justified. Like the mods for 'trim on a slider', it just goes to show that this is treated as a glorified arcade game (which it is).

justflyin
06-28-2006, 02:11 PM
If you truly knew how prop pitch worked in the 109 series, prior to the "fix", you wouldn't have typed that. It was even worse prior to a previous fix where the exploit was actually "OK'd" for use in a 1C-sponsored competition. I thought that was a very sad day in the life of this series. :^(

Since they added the weight back to the Lagg series and toned down the rudder sensitivity of the La-7, plus adjusted her performance at altitude, I find the La-7 is relatively easy to dominate with a Mk. VIII CW these days.

Also, I haven't seen any delta wood-related topics for quite some time now on the forums. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
06-28-2006, 02:14 PM
There is no change to the prop pitch exploit. It is exactly the same as before. On the 190 you can go rad open 100% pitch and run like a bat outa hell forever with no overheat.

F6_Ace
06-28-2006, 02:17 PM
Or, perhaps the Mk VIII CW is overmodelled, too. That's hardly a scientific test now, is it?

Your logic is flawed. For example, I haven't seen any topics on bin Laden being a nasty guy for some time on the net....Perhaps he's turned alright now?

JG53Frankyboy
06-28-2006, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
There is no change to the prop pitch exploit. It is exactly the same as before. On the 190 you can go rad open 100% pitch and run like a bat outa hell forever with no overheat.

the exploit was about the 109s maual pitch use - thats fixed.

well, the 190 has a CSP in game when at manual.
the Kommandoger√¬§t (automode) is a joke in the game.................

btw, i have overheats in a Fw190 when flying full power , rad open.

LEBillfish
06-28-2006, 02:27 PM
Heard there was a terrible pile up here so sent out the fleet.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/whambulance.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/wambulance.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v707/Kaytoo/wahmbulance.jpg

justflyin
06-28-2006, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Or, perhaps the Mk VIII CW is overmodelled, too. That's hardly a scientific test now, is it?

Your logic is flawed. For example, I haven't seen any topics on bin Laden being a nasty guy for some time on the net....Perhaps he's turned alright now?

No need for scientific tests, as your 1st post would indicate. I'm using my experience of flying La-7s against MK VIII CWs and vice-versa since the Mk. VIIIs were introduced into this series, plus my 6 years of experience with this series since the IL-2 beta.

HaVoK, the prop pitch exploit in a 109 has nothing to do with the FW's use of it. It didn't work the same way in a FW in the game.

When smeone provides a link to the tracks made from that competition in China, what you see on them is a joke, but it was OK'd for use in the tournament at the time. The same AUTO/MANUAL pitch BS was used to exploit a Fighter Sweeps round as well. Be sure.

LEXX_Luthor
06-28-2006, 02:38 PM
Megile::
Some have previously posted evidence of experten using prop pitch during combat,...
My guess is that with a prop pitch exploit available, every computer gamer plays Hristo-ical Luftwaffe Experten. Its more realistic if everybody plays "average" pilots and be forced to gain experience to be better and not use exploits.

just::
[quote]It was even worse prior to a previous fix where the exploit was actually "OK'd" for use in a 1C-sponsored competition. I thought that was a very sad day in the life of this series. :^(
I noticed that too. That was an early cornball IL-2 day.

stathem
06-28-2006, 02:56 PM
Nice work Megile.

I reckon you might get 3-4 out of this before omfg wtf did Oleg do to my stcikk!!!111 4.06

RaVe_N
06-28-2006, 02:59 PM
The prop pith "EXPLOIT" was no exploit it took skill to tune your ear to the sound of the rev of the engine.
One over reve and you were squeaking and wheezing with a cooked engine.
it took skills to balance the RPM in a climb It took work to master the 109 with manual prop pitch. Now the effectiveness of manual prop pitch is nonexistent in fast the AC actually slows down when you crank up the RPMs. That's not realistic at all.
So I just use auto and it's much less work to fly the AC now but also much less enjoyable.
It's a loss of a valuable tool that actually existed in a real AC.
To take it away was a bad move IMO.
I for one miss my Prop pitch control

RCAF_Irish_403
06-28-2006, 02:59 PM
hey! it's been awhile since this little controversy has been discussed

justflyin
06-28-2006, 03:03 PM
OOH! Megile has his first "Catch of the Day"!!! Reel him in, Megile! Reel him in quick before he spits the hook!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

danjama
06-28-2006, 03:17 PM
Hristo-ical http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

classic!!

VW-IceFire
06-28-2006, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
While he's looking at the G2, perhaps he can look at the delta wood *exploit* affecting his prize stock of VVS aircraft, too?

No, it wasn't justified. Like the mods for 'trim on a slider', it just goes to show that this is treated as a glorified arcade game (which it is).
People always forget that Oleg's self professed favourite aircraft is not any Russian fighter but the infamous Bf109. Many may scoff but its true from everything that he's said.

Some of the VVS aircraft have a DM problem because they were never upgraded. The Bf109 doesn't have a problem because it was always upgraded...even when the FW190 was still using a basic DM the 109s kept getting more advanced. The LaGG-3 is made of concrete because there isn't detail to the DM. Thats why. All that wood weighed a ton and it provided a heavy structure...the Mosquito was in much the same way resistant to damage. The problem is that things like radiators and detailed weak points on the Klimov engines simply aren't present.

justflyin
06-28-2006, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
People always forget that Oleg's self professed favourite aircraft is not any Russian fighter but the infamous Bf109.

Too true and the only plane I've ever seen him in online.

(Ties an extra knot in his lure to make sure none get away)

Hmmm, this could be why the 109-G2 is the way it is at the moment. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

HayateAce
06-28-2006, 03:35 PM
Cool, One-Oh-Whining.

justflyin
06-28-2006, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
Cool, One-Oh-Whining.

Damn, I had you pegged for at least a 2nd page cherry appearance, HayateAce. You've even exceeded my expectations. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Oops, look who did get that cherry. :^)

F6_Ace
06-28-2006, 04:38 PM
Congrats on flying since original Il-2 demo/beta - that makes two of us.

It's a bit like football pundits discussing a penalty on a replay..no matter how experienced they are, they may well have different opinions neither of which may be wrong.

i.e. I don't agree with you and you are not more correct than I am.

Yes, I know all about the history of DMs in the game with respect to delta wood and that certain aircraft DMs have been upgraded whilst others were not. Now, a more cynical person (such as myself) might conclude that there was a commercial reason for such actions. Again, you might disagree but....see the logic above.

Airmail109
06-28-2006, 04:38 PM
The prop pitch exploit shpuld never have been removed, as its historically correct to use it. If any real life pilots had the chance to use it they would have done....same goes for trim on a slider. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

F6_Ace
06-28-2006, 04:42 PM
ps, while you are feeling logical, perhaps you could explain this?

if:
a=b

x both sides by a:
a^2 = ab

add a^2-2ab to both sides:
a^2+a^2-2ab=ab+a^2-2ab

simplifies to:
2(a^2-ab)=a^2-ab

divide both sides by a^2-ab:
2=1

So, what's wrong with that then?

Brain32
06-28-2006, 05:38 PM
People always forget that Oleg's self professed favourite aircraft is not any Russian fighter but the infamous Bf109.
Wait a minute, not one week ago his favourite plane was FW190 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif He just can't decide can he http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
About exploit, Tempest(my favourite) has one also(the principle is almost indentical as the one on the 109), I reported it during 404(Like I said I will) and it has not been fixed in v405. Spitfire can achieve it's max speed at only 85% thrrothle with WEP. I will not even comment the 1943 labeled La5FN http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Keep it real boys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Badsight-
06-28-2006, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by RaVe_N:
I for one miss my Prop pitch control you still have it

you can still switch to manuel pitch control flying Bf-109's

WTE_Galway
06-28-2006, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> People always forget that Oleg's self professed favourite aircraft is not any Russian fighter but the infamous Bf109.
Wait a minute, not one week ago his favourite plane was FW190 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif He just can't decide can he http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
About exploit, Tempest(my favourite) has one also(the principle is almost indentical as the one on the 109), I reported it during 404(Like I said I will) and it has not been fixed in v405. Spitfire can achieve it's max speed at only 85% thrrothle with WEP. I will not even comment the 1943 labeled La5FN http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Keep it real boys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No .. Oleg himself stated a number of times his all time favourite aircraft was the G6as and his second favourite the P51d.

I have actually flown online in the same server as Oleg and he invariably took the G6as.

Brain32
06-28-2006, 06:06 PM
Hehe m8 I don't know what he really likes, actually I am prone to believe you. I posted why I posted because of this:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/5551073454/p/3
You have to scroll to about the middle of the page there you will see it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

NonWonderDog
06-28-2006, 06:06 PM
What the hell? This thread makes no sense whatsoever.

To aid clarity, I propose that any answer in this thread must first answer the following question:

WHAT do you think the prop pitch exploit was, and WHAT if anything do you think was done to rectify it?


I always thought that the "exploit" referred to the way you could set 100% in manual mode and switch from auto to manual -- causing a near instantaneous change in prop pitch -- running the revs way up for just a second or so as so not to trigger the engine damage script, quickly switching back to auto mode to get another near instantaneous pitch change, and using the high RPM and coarse pitch to get a noticable acceleration boost for about one second.

THAT is CLEARLY an ahistorical exploit that has nothing whatsoever to do with reality. It simply shouldn't work, but apparently it did in the sim. I still don't know what the "prop pitch nerf" is, but if that's fixed, I'm glad.


What are the rest of you talking about? Does the engine now hit peak power at a lower RPM or something?

RaVe_N
06-28-2006, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RaVe_N:
I for one miss my Prop pitch control you still have it

you can still switch to manuel pitch control flying Bf-109's </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes I know but you lose speed when you rev up the rpms in manual . it's useless there is no point to useing it.

NonWonderDog
06-28-2006, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
ps, while you are feeling logical, perhaps you could explain this?

if:
a=b

x both sides by a:
a^2 = ab

add a^2-2ab to both sides:
a^2+a^2-2ab=ab+a^2-2ab

simplifies to:
2(a^2-ab)=a^2-ab

divide both sides by a^2-ab:
2=1

So, what's wrong with that then?

OOOOOOH! I KNOW! I KNOW!

It's "divide both sides by a^2-ab." a^2-ab was already defined as zero.

More generally, you can't "cancel out" a variable expression through division, because the variable may equal zero and division by zero is illogical. You can merely factor. Instead of 2=1, you have
(a^2 - ab) * 2 = (a^2 - ab) * 1

This simplifies to
(a^2 - ab) * 1 = 0

Since 1 != 0, we know that a^2 - ab = 0

This is obvious, because we've already defined a = b.



Now, here's a trickier question -- one which, in all likelyhood, has no answer: Why in the hell did I take the time to write all this out?

RCAF_Irish_403
06-28-2006, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RaVe_N:
I for one miss my Prop pitch control you still have it

you can still switch to manuel pitch control flying Bf-109's </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yup..do it all the time...drop PP to 0%, lower engine throttle and glide in on the baddies (often they can't hear you)

Lordbutter4
06-28-2006, 07:12 PM
Manual prop pitch can be used on 109's still. Its the reason I actually enjoy flying this bird instead of just point and fly spitfires. The instant extra push is gone, but now flying manual is still rewarding to those who know how to do it.

Bearcat99
06-28-2006, 07:30 PM
I always wished that they had made some of the American planes the same way. I know for a fact that although the P-47 had a CSP... ther was a way to switch from auto to manual prop pitch... it just wasnt done unless it was an emergency and something else was wrong necessitating it, but the option was there. Not onmly that I have spoken to several Tuskegee pilots who spoke of pushing the pitch & throttle forward and being forced back into thier seats by the the thrust...

DIRTY-MAC
06-28-2006, 07:39 PM
Olegs favourite fighter had always been FW190 be shure.

JG53Frankyboy
06-28-2006, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by Lordbutter4:
Manual prop pitch can be used on 109's still. Its the reason I actually enjoy flying this bird instead of just point and fly spitfires. The instant extra push is gone, but now flying manual is still rewarding to those who know how to do it.

well, propably we will have to learn it in SoW:BoB !

but as it is my experience:
i tried a K-4 at manual pitch after Maddox "fixed" the exploit. i wasnt able to keep this plane in the air at manual.....
it didnt gained any speed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
anyway, i never used manual in 109s.

JG53Frankyboy
06-28-2006, 07:45 PM
Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
Olegs favourite fighter had always been FW190 be shure.

to make it clear:
from the point of an engineer his favorite plane is the Fw190. because Kurt Tank putted some very interesting stuff in it.
not because Oleg is thinking its performance is so marvelous !

from the point of fighting online in the game, Oleg said, loooooooooong time ago, his favortie would be a Bf109G6/AS .

WWMaxGunz
06-28-2006, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
ps, while you are feeling logical, perhaps you could explain this?

if:
a=b

x both sides by a:
a^2 = ab

add a^2-2ab to both sides:
a^2+a^2-2ab=ab+a^2-2ab

simplifies to:
2(a^2-ab)=a^2-ab

divide both sides by a^2-ab:
2=1

So, what's wrong with that then?

Last step when you divided by zero.

WWMaxGunz
06-28-2006, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by NonWonderDog:
What the hell? This thread makes no sense whatsoever.


Welcome to the UBI Zoo.
With every exhibit there is an accompanying pet whines section.
As long as the pets are fed, they never ever die.

LEXX_Luthor
06-28-2006, 08:44 PM
WonderDog::
always thought that the "exploit" referred to the way you could set 100% in manual mode and switch from auto to manual -- causing a near instantaneous change in prop pitch -- running the revs way up for just a second or so as so not to trigger the engine damage script, quickly switching back to auto mode to get another near instantaneous pitch change, and using the high RPM and coarse pitch to get a noticable acceleration boost for about one second.

THAT is CLEARLY an ahistorical exploit that has nothing whatsoever to do with reality. It simply shouldn't work, but apparently it did in the sim. I still don't know what the "prop pitch nerf" is, but if that's fixed, I'm glad.
Yep, that's it.

Its kinda interesting -- first time Newbies to flight sims come to this board and see the "experienced" Old Timer Online players, especially pics from the LAN Competition, they think WOW these are the Real Pro Simmers. That's what I thought when I first came here...haha The image was destroyed by, among many other things, by visualizing these competitive Pro-Gamers jerking hands and fingers back and forth over little plastic keyboard working 109 prop pitch at the LAN Competition. Perhaps, that was a Good Day for IL-2, as we needed to see this behavior In Action. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

WTE_Galway
06-28-2006, 08:59 PM
of course the first 109 we are getting in BOB will be the E3 (though the E1 was their in the biggest numbers) and historically at the time of the BOB a lot of E3's (maybe nearly all) where still manual pitch


be interesting to see what we get manual or auto http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

La7_brook
06-29-2006, 01:14 AM
Originally posted by danjama:
Hristo-ical http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

classic!! it was used by many vets / and any one who knows any thing about 109,s in the war ,will till u the same

WOLFMondo
06-29-2006, 03:04 AM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
There is no change to the prop pitch exploit. It is exactly the same as before. On the 190 you can go rad open 100% pitch and run like a bat outa hell forever with no overheat.

I think you missed what the exploit was. On the 109 you could go from manual to automatic and get a massive increase in power for a few seconds.

The 190's prop pitch isn't an exploit, besides, if you run at 100% all the time in the 190 your not getting the most out of it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

anarchy52
06-29-2006, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
ps, while you are feeling logical, perhaps you could explain this?

if:
a=b

x both sides by a:
a^2 = ab

add a^2-2ab to both sides:
a^2+a^2-2ab=ab+a^2-2ab

simplifies to:
2(a^2-ab)=a^2-ab

divide both sides by a^2-ab:
2=1

So, what's wrong with that then?

Division by 0

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by NonWonderDog:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
ps, while you are feeling logical, perhaps you could explain this?

if:
a=b

x both sides by a:
a^2 = ab

add a^2-2ab to both sides:
a^2+a^2-2ab=ab+a^2-2ab

simplifies to:
2(a^2-ab)=a^2-ab

divide both sides by a^2-ab:
2=1

So, what's wrong with that then?

OOOOOOH! I KNOW! I KNOW!

It's "divide both sides by a^2-ab." a^2-ab was already defined as zero.

More generally, you can't "cancel out" a variable expression through division, because the variable may equal zero and division by zero is illogical. You can merely factor. Instead of 2=1, you have
(a^2 - ab) * 2 = (a^2 - ab) * 1

This simplifies to
(a^2 - ab) * 1 = 0

Since 1 != 0, we know that a^2 - ab = 0

This is obvious, because we've already defined a = b.



Now, here's a trickier question -- one which, in all likelyhood, has no answer: Why in the hell did I take the time to write all this out? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correctamundo...you get the cigar. A mate of mine spent all day looking at that and was almost convinced that mathematics was defunct as it was fundamentally flawed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WWMaxGunz
06-29-2006, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
The image was destroyed by, among many other things, by visualizing these competitive Pro-Gamers jerking hands and fingers back and forth over little plastic keyboard working 109 prop pitch at the LAN Competition. Perhaps, that was a Good Day for IL-2, as we needed to see this behavior In Action. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

It really helped that tracks of the events were distributed. Perhaps they teach us how to fly?
What irked me the most was that at least some of the winners using the exploit were also the lead
beta testers. Instead of reporting the exploit and working to get a fix, they make study of and
use them.

justflyin
06-29-2006, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
The image was destroyed by, among many other things, by visualizing these competitive Pro-Gamers jerking hands and fingers back and forth over little plastic keyboard working 109 prop pitch at the LAN Competition. Perhaps, that was a Good Day for IL-2, as we needed to see this behavior In Action. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

It really helped that tracks of the events were distributed. Perhaps they teach us how to fly?
What irked me the most was that at least some of the winners using the exploit were also the lead
beta testers. Instead of reporting the exploit and working to get a fix, they make study of and
use them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The beta testers have been the root of many of these issues being left in the game. Plus, they are also the ones who were constantly leaking the betas. LOL, NDAs are for wusses.

rnzoli
06-29-2006, 07:53 AM
It really helped that tracks of the events were distributed. Perhaps they teach us how to fly?
I had seen such a track, but wasn't really interesting. The cheat was mostly apparent after taking off from the airfield, in order to gain altitude advantage over the other player. Before that I never saw cimbing a Bf-109 like a rocket. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

On some online squad forum I saw a post-competition post from a member expressing pity over an offline competitor for being "incompetent" in not using the PP cheat (probably not aware of it either). Basically if you haven't used the cheat, you were deemed to lose the fight.

justflyin
06-29-2006, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It really helped that tracks of the events were distributed. Perhaps they teach us how to fly?
I had seen such a track, but wasn't really interesting. The cheat was mostly apparent after taking off from the airfield, in order to gain altitude advantage over the other player. Before that I never saw cimbing a Bf-109 like a rocket. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

On some online squad forum I saw a post-competition post from a member expressing pity over an offline competitor for being "incompetent" in not using the PP cheat (probably not aware of it either). Basically if you haven't used the cheat, you were deemed to lose the fight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, rnzoli, in that case the exploit was used as a cheat. However, in my eyes an exploit is the use or misuse of a feature that is available to all to find and use themselves. Using it when no one else is aware of it in a competition is just being a lowlife scumbag who can't stand losing to an honestly better pilot.

A cheat is the use of an outside feature or program that is NOT available in the game, to enhance online performance. This is a constant in HyperLobby, unfortunately.

A friend of mine has been making NTRKs for months now and is editing together a movie of all the c*r*a*p that happens in the servers on HL. There will also be network logs, IP logs and seminars demonstrating the use of the various cheats in action, so people can see exactly what cheaters are doing online.

It will truly be a magnificent eye-opener.

Genie-
06-29-2006, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:

People always forget that Oleg's self professed favourite aircraft is not any Russian fighter but the infamous Bf109.

nope,

he was always talking about Fw190 being his favoritue. But problaly as VVS ace maker.

regarding prop pitch, yes it was flawed and t was an exploit. But flying Spits and La's is also one big exploit but we have tons of Aces on it.
Well, it seems that Oleg likes to help poor people in need...

MEGILE
06-29-2006, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Genie-:
But flying Spits and La's is also one big exploit but we have tons of Aces on it.
Well, it seems that Oleg likes to help poor people in need...

Interesting comment.. feel free to continue.

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Genie-:
But flying Spits and La's is also one big exploit but we have tons of Aces on it.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

justflyin
06-29-2006, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by Genie-:
But flying Spits and La's is also one big exploit but we have tons of Aces on it.
Well, it seems that Oleg likes to help poor people in need...

The LW didn't yell, "Achtung Spitfire!!!" for nothing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Although, the FW gave them a brief respite from the "British Terror of the Skies", the Mk. IX and CW Spits quickly closed that gap and gave the edge back to the plane that won the war over Europe. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Kernow
06-29-2006, 12:35 PM
Nice one justflyin; now it should kick-off http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
of course the first 109 we are getting in BOB will be the E3 (though the E1 was their in the biggest numbers) and historically at the time of the BOB a lot of E3's (maybe nearly all) where still manual pitch


be interesting to see what we get manual or auto http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Remember the 109E only had manual when pp was originally introduced. It was a nice challenge getting the most from the 109E. A patch changed them to auto like the other 109s, because by the time of Barbarossa almost all 109Es had the auto system installed and the game was still deemed to be an Eastern Front game at the time, so it made sense to make them auto.

justflyin
06-29-2006, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Kernow:
Nice one justflyin; now it should kick-off http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I was also going to throw in that the Spitfire also won the Battle of Britain as well, but I figured that might be a little too obvious. hehe

Lordbutter4
06-29-2006, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lordbutter4:
Manual prop pitch can be used on 109's still. Its the reason I actually enjoy flying this bird instead of just point and fly spitfires. The instant extra push is gone, but now flying manual is still rewarding to those who know how to do it.

well, propably we will have to learn it in SoW:BoB !

but as it is my experience:
i tried a K-4 at manual pitch after Maddox "fixed" the exploit. i wasnt able to keep this plane in the air at manual.....
it didnt gained any speed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
anyway, i never used manual in 109s. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ill have to show you sometime on Spits vs 109s. You can get extra speed out of all models of 109's in s'n'l, your dive speed will increase on manual, and you can also play with your climb rates vs speeds and pitch. Ive had 109's near stall still climbing at thier max rate..Which really helps when you learn to stall fight against spits.

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by justflyin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kernow:
Nice one justflyin; now it should kick-off http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I was also going to throw in that the Spitfire also won the Battle of Britain as well, but I figured that might be a little too obvious. hehe </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps you'd like to elaborate on Spitfires getting d*cked by FW190s when they (190s) first appeared on the Channel Front? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The point is that Oleg has modelled things favourably for some aircraft and not others *in the game* Pulling back on the stick hard in a Spitfire (without loss of e as affects other aircraft) is only the same as a "prop pitch cheat" with a 109. i.e. If the 109 doesn't obey rules of physics then the noobfire would cause Newton to take a step back at his apple.

The fact is that this game is an arcade game and there are trick and exploits for all aircraft..some built in (requiring no knowledge, such as any VVS ride but particularly the La5/La7) and <insert item here>.

The game, although touted as a simulation, bears little resemblance to real life. It's crimson skies...with WW2 planes.

justflyin
06-29-2006, 03:24 PM
I stated in my earlier post that the FW provided a "brief" respite, did I not?

I can do the same exact things in a 109-G2 as I can in a Spitfire. The only difference, the 109 falls just short of the sustained turning circle of the Mk. VIII CW and can slow down faster. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 03:34 PM
It was hardly brief - after all, the RAF ended up having to employ the Tempest to deal with the FW190D http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I find it easier to get kills in the Spitfire as opposed to any 109 and I fly neither regularly. The 109 is particularly borked with respect to super concrete elevator, which takes away any bnz capability of the aircraft + removal of prop pitch adjustment...both due to forum boo-hoo whine-meisters.

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 03:35 PM
err , my whine-meister alarm is going off


Originally posted by F6_Ace:
+ removal of prop pitch adjustment...both due to forum boo-hoo whine-meisters.
Whiskey
Tango
Foxtrot ?

the Bf-109 STILL has Prop Pitch adjustability , no-one took manuel control away from you - what you & i got stopped from doing is using it way beyond what it actually worked like

i.e. . . . . the crimson skies game took a step towards realisim . . . . .

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 03:42 PM
"dude , your a joke"

I hate to be pedantic but, presumably, you meant "you're a joke" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Whatever, pal - you just go on defending your strained little game with it's obvious bias and faults. Me? I'll just pick fault with it at my leisure.

justflyin
06-29-2006, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
It was hardly brief - after all, the RAF ended up having to employ the Tempest to deal with the FW190D http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I find it easier to get kills in the Spitfire as opposed to any 109 and I fly neither regularly. The 109 is particularly borked with respect to super concrete elevator, which takes away any bnz capability of the aircraft + removal of prop pitch adjustment...both due to forum boo-hoo whine-meisters.

Who needs to worry about a stiff elevator when you can out turn the Spits with the 109-G2?!?! lol

Also, prop pitch adjustment wasn't removed, it was corrected. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
"dude , your a joke"

I hate to be pedantic but, presumably, you meant "you're a joke" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. nope , i typed "your" & i meant it - as anyone knows only whine-meister spelling nazis would care , or think it matters . but you want me to think your intelligence is limited & you get stumbled & confused by grammer errors . . . ?

either way you complain about the lack of realisim - yet want your uber-pitch , the irony is not lost on me , & the joke gets bigger

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 03:46 PM
So, you think the 109 doesn't have a concrete elevator at all? That says a lot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Even if you had a 'Spinal Tap' joystick where elevator trim went to '11, man' you wouldn't get near to 109 being capable of effective bnz.

It would be nice for lots of things to be 'corrected' but Oleg obviously has his EA-inspected coffers to worry about so I doubt some of them will ever happen.

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by justflyin:
[Who needs to worry about a stiff elevator when you can out turn the Spits with the 109-G2?!?! lol well the Pe-8 can do that as well , oh wait - no it cant , not unless the Spit user is lacking in skill , seriously - no Bf-109 has ever had a better turn rate in FB than the Spits - but getting shot down by good players is so hard to handel . . . . .

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
"dude , your a joke"

I hate to be pedantic but, presumably, you meant "you're a joke" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. nope , i typed "your" & i meant it - as anyone knows only whine-meister spelling nazis would care , or think it matters . but you want me to think your intelligence is limited & you get stumbled & confused by grammer errors . . . ?

either way you complain about the lack of realisim - yet want your uber-pitch , the irony is not lost on me , & the joke gets bigger </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh look...nazi in a sentence. Are you calling me a goose-stepper now? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Actually, I couldn't give a flying f*ck about the prop pitch because I hardly ever flew the 109 so your conjecture that I somehow 'want it' is incorrect. Sorry, son - better luck next time.

However, I do like to wind up noobfire jocks who feel superior about other aircraft even though they are flying, quite literally, a joke with wings.

justflyin
06-29-2006, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
So, you think the 109 doesn't have a concrete elevator at all? That says a lot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Well, I didn't say that. I just said it doesn't affect my flying of 109s. They still seem pretty damned effective in the B and Z, but they turn well, too.

Besides, my plane of choice for B and Z is a FW-A8 or A9 and of course, the Spitfire.

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Oh look...nazi in a sentence. Are you calling me a goose-stepper now? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Actually, I couldn't give a flying f*ck about the prop pitch because I hardly ever flew the 109 so your conjecture that I somehow 'want it' is incorrect. Sorry, son - better luck next time.

However, I do like to wind up noobfire jocks who feel superior about other aircraft even though they are flying, quite literally, a joke with wings. yep & spelling-nazi's existed waaaay before goodwin ever thought up his law - a refuge to cover over your lame diversion post it exists for you not

could your little pained whiny opinion about FB be any more boring than it already is ? it would be hard to see how . . . . .

justflyin
06-29-2006, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by justflyin:
[Who needs to worry about a stiff elevator when you can out turn the Spits with the 109-G2?!?! lol well the Pe-8 can do that as well , oh wait - no it cant , not unless the Spit user is lacking in skill , seriously - no Bf-109 has ever had a better turn rate in FB than the Spits - but getting shot down by good players is so hard to handel . . . . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I suspect it would be hard for a vet Spitfire jock to be downed by a 109-G2, but I was speaking from the 109-G2 position and the daily downing of Spitfires that I do. However, when there is an expert pilot in a plane, it really doesn't matter who is in the other plane most times. An ace is an ace is an ace is an ace in any plane he flies.

When you fly a Spitfire as much as I do, you need to fly the other birds just as much to know what you are up against at all times. No one said anything about the 109 PLANE out turning the Spitfire PLANE.

Actually, I know the 109-G2 falls just short of the Mk. VIII's turning circle, as it should.

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 03:55 PM
Effective at bnz? So, you've managed to keep your bnz dive speed down below 400kmh..well done. It's not very realistic, but well done all the same.

Are you a beta tester by any chance?

Email:
to: Oleg@pf.com
subject: 109 bnz

Dear Oleg,

I tried the 109 out and the elevator worked fine for bnz. I didn't exceed 400kmh because, for the portion of the tests that I was supposed to check elevator response, my gran came around and I had to make her cups of tea.

Regards,
Justflyin

Reply:

Dear Justflyin

Don't worry about the tests - we'd only change the FMs a microsecond before we release a patch thus invalidating any good testing done anyway.

Regards,
Oleg

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Oh look...nazi in a sentence. Are you calling me a goose-stepper now? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Actually, I couldn't give a flying f*ck about the prop pitch because I hardly ever flew the 109 so your conjecture that I somehow 'want it' is incorrect. Sorry, son - better luck next time.

However, I do like to wind up noobfire jocks who feel superior about other aircraft even though they are flying, quite literally, a joke with wings. yep & spelling-nazi's existed waaaay before goodwin ever thought up his law - a refuge to cover over your lame diversion post it exists for you not

could your little pained whiny opinion about FB be any more boring than it already is ? it would be hard to see how . . . . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, your argument has failed and you begin a completely personal attack. Oh dear, Badsight..

Keep flying the Spit, old boy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by justflyin:
Actually, I know the 109-G2 falls just short of the Mk. VIII's turning circle, as it should. so what are you saying , under no circumstances should a Spit ever be out-turned ? no matter how good or poor the E-state its flying with ?

loads of BS like that are laughable . . . .

justflyin
06-29-2006, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Effective at bnz? So, you've managed to keep your bnz dive speed down below 400kmh..well done. It's not very realistic, but well done all the same.

Are you a beta tester by any chance?

Email:
to: Oleg@pf.com
subject: 109 bnz

Dear Oleg,

I tried the 109 out and the elevator worked fine for bnz. I didn't exceed 400kmh because, for the portion of the tests that I was supposed to check elevator response, my gran came around and I had to make her cups of tea.

Regards,
Justflyin

Reply:

Dear Justflyin

Don't worry about the tests - we'd only change the FMs a microsecond before we release a patch thus invalidating any good testing done anyway.

Regards,
Oleg

LOL, wow you make me laugh. I suggest actually learning to fly with one fact in mind...http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif you are flying a video game.

I have no issue effectively using a 109 for B and Z. It's a shame your mileage varies, but that's what sets the Top 5% apart from the rest of the flock. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
So, your argument has failed and you begin a completely personal attack. Oh dear, Badsight..

Keep flying the Spit, old boy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif personal it may be - but if you want to post like a spelling-nazi , dont go getting upset about it being pointed out

yes i do fly Spits - just like almost everything else in FB . good luck living with such a painfull & whiney opinion btw . . . . hope it works out for you . . . .

justflyin
06-29-2006, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by justflyin:
Actually, I know the 109-G2 falls just short of the Mk. VIII's turning circle, as it should. so what are you saying , under no circumstances should a Spit ever be out-turned ? no matter how good or poor the E-state its flying with ?

loads of BS like that are laughable . . . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You replied before I finished editing my thought. Badsight, you have not the skill nor the brains to back-up a third of the c*r*a*p you post. Please, save yourself the embarrassment of any further comments unless you are going to read the entire post, first.

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by justflyin:
[You replied before edit. Badsight, you have not the skill nor the brains to back-up a third of the c*r*a*p you post. Please, save yourself the embarrassment of any further comments unless you are going to read the entire post, first. are you kidding me ? surely your not this much of a ******!

first you try to imply the G2 out-turns the Spit (any apparently) , then you do a 180 & say the G2 falls short of turning with Spits . now you dont seem to know what the hell your on about - do you have any point at all that wont be contradicted within the next 5 minutes ?!?!?

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
So, your argument has failed and you begin a completely personal attack. Oh dear, Badsight..

Keep flying the Spit, old boy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif personal it may be - but if you want to post like a spelling-nazi , dont go getting upset about it being pointed out

yes i do fly Spits - just like almost everything else in FB . good luck living with such a painfull & whiney opinion btw . . . . hope it works out for you . . . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a shame you get so upset because of your poor grammar being highlighted. I find that very amusing indeed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Almost as amusing as 'painfull' but I wouldn't want to be a goose-stepper now.

I suspected you were a Spitjock; they never whine because there is nothing whatsoever to whine about.

Keep defending the faith, fanbois

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by justflyin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Effective at bnz? So, you've managed to keep your bnz dive speed down below 400kmh..well done. It's not very realistic, but well done all the same.

Are you a beta tester by any chance?

Email:
to: Oleg@pf.com
subject: 109 bnz

Dear Oleg,

I tried the 109 out and the elevator worked fine for bnz. I didn't exceed 400kmh because, for the portion of the tests that I was supposed to check elevator response, my gran came around and I had to make her cups of tea.

Regards,
Justflyin

Reply:

Dear Justflyin

Don't worry about the tests - we'd only change the FMs a microsecond before we release a patch thus invalidating any good testing done anyway.

Regards,
Oleg

LOL, wow you make me laugh. I suggest actually learning to fly with one fact in mind...http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif you are flying a video game.

I have no issue effectively using a 109 for B and Z. It's a shame your mileage varies, but that's what sets the Top 5% apart from the rest of the flock. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I pointed out earlier that it's just an arcade game - an upmarket Crimson Skies if you will. It hadn't used to be as laughable as it is now but there has been a lot of whining water under the bridge. And, of course, a dereliction of duty by the devs in certain regards.

So, you're in the top 5%. Well done - perhaps you could join Mensa? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

justflyin
06-29-2006, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by justflyin:
[You replied before edit. Badsight, you have not the skill nor the brains to back-up a third of the c*r*a*p you post. Please, save yourself the embarrassment of any further comments unless you are going to read the entire post, first. are you kidding me ? surely your not this much of a ******!

first you try to imply the G2 out-turns the Spit (any apparently) , then you do a 180 & say the G2 falls short of turning with Spits . now you dont seem to know what the hell your on about - do you have any point at all that wont be contradiction within the next 5 minutes ?!?!? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, try actually reading. I'm betting half of your posts would go away if you did. Experts can win, out turn do anything in any plane.

I'll make this point simple, plain and clear for you:

"Two pilots holding a sustained turning circle of equal skill and utilizing any combination of trim, flaps, pitch, throttle, rudder, the 109-G2 will fall short of the Mk. VIII's sustained turning circle."

However, if the 109-G2 pilot has more skill, then the Spitfire is dead. Your mileage may vary and having seen you fly, you fall short in the skills department to make a proper assessment. Be sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
What a shame you get so upset because of your poor grammar being highlighted. I find that very amusing indeed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Almost as amusing as 'painfull' but I wouldn't want to be a goose-stepper now.

I suspected you were a Spitjock; they never whine because there is nothing whatsoever to whine about.

Keep defending the faith, fanbois i couldnt be less upset if i tried - im laughing . . . at you . man you Bf-109 whiners just will never get over it will you , its always about you in some way - about the only thing you cry-babies have left is grammer correction (as if your that simple you needed it in the first place) , either way that chip must be wearing out your shoulder after all these years - how bout you just "get over it" & save on all the tissues

joeap
06-29-2006, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
So, your argument has failed and you begin a completely personal attack. Oh dear, Badsight..

Keep flying the Spit, old boy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif personal it may be - but if you want to post like a spelling-nazi , dont go getting upset about it being pointed out

yes i do fly Spits - just like almost everything else in FB . good luck living with such a painfull & whiney opinion btw . . . . hope it works out for you . . . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a shame you get so upset because of your poor grammar being highlighted. I find that very amusing indeed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Almost as amusing as 'painfull' but I wouldn't want to be a goose-stepper now.

I suspected you were a Spitjock; they never whine because there is nothing whatsoever to whine about.

Keep defending the faith, fanbois </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Nor--uhhh F6 if you don't like the game why are you here? I just wonder if there are other games out there why hang around if this one annoys you so much. I don't fly the spits often btw, I usually fly both blue and red and mostly bombers lately. Just as a preemptive comment. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by justflyin:
Again, try actually reading. I'm betting half of your posts would go away if you did. Experts can win, out turn do anything in any plane. wow - no kidding . as if that was possible all this time & only now im getting educated on it

so despite you knowing that - you still tried putting out the lame "but G2's can out-turn spits" sentence knowing all along its not possible in some conditions (fair start - equal E) & possible in others (surprised low E enemy)

& you wonder why your post is considered a joke . . . .

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 04:11 PM
Are you still towing the tired old 10-whiner line? I already said that I hardly flew the 109 - 'get wid da programme, kiddo.'

I suspect that if you want some more straws to clutch at, you can get a pack from K-Mart or whatever for next to nothing.

What's particularly ironic is that you refer to grammer...it's actually grammar. LOL

<pats Badsight on the head>

Come on, son..I know your school reports said 'could try harder' but you really need to get a grip. Spend less time flying noobfires and a bit more time with your nose in a book, pal.

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
So, your argument has failed and you begin a completely personal attack. Oh dear, Badsight..

Keep flying the Spit, old boy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif personal it may be - but if you want to post like a spelling-nazi , dont go getting upset about it being pointed out

yes i do fly Spits - just like almost everything else in FB . good luck living with such a painfull & whiney opinion btw . . . . hope it works out for you . . . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a shame you get so upset because of your poor grammar being highlighted. I find that very amusing indeed http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Almost as amusing as 'painfull' but I wouldn't want to be a goose-stepper now.

I suspected you were a Spitjock; they never whine because there is nothing whatsoever to whine about.

Keep defending the faith, fanbois </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Nor--uhhh F6 if you don't like the game why are you here? I just wonder if there are other games out there why hang around if this one annoys you so much. I don't fly the spits often btw, I usually fly both blue and red and mostly bombers lately. Just as a preemptive comment. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps I have just as much fun winding plebs up about a game as playing them?

Is this going to turn into a Stiglr-type thing where everyone ****s off Stiglr for pointing out the faults before attacking Targetware.... then it ends up with them downloading the Tobruk addon because someone actually managed to model the FW190 without f*cking it up?

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 04:15 PM
oh come on - telling me to do some reading , yet your whining about the loss of the uber-pitch . . . thats laughable

like i said - you & your kind are a joke , old news - has beens . . . . how about you "learn to fly" because it seems that lacking in your behalf ,

guys who can - do
guys who cant - develop into pained whiny moaners

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 04:18 PM
But we've already been over the fact that I'm not whining about losing 'my' uber prop pitch because I never used it in the first place. Rather, my point was (obviously it went over your head, a bit like your schooling did) whiners have things nerfed when there are patently other things at fault that need fixing but which are not fixed.

You're still clutching at straws, pal. Come up with something coherent, for f*cks sake.

joeap
06-29-2006, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:


Perhaps I have just as much fun winding plebs up about a game as playing them?

Is this going to turn into a Stiglr-type thing where everyone ****s off Stiglr for pointing our the faults before attacking Targetware.... then it ends up with them downloading the Tobruk addon because someone actually managed to model the FW190 without f*cking it up?

Well whatever turns you on...note how the guy who posted the new TW FW190 said nothing about IL2, just posted some screenshots and info and let "us" decide. Very different from Stiglr.

Ok, have fun with your **** fest with Badsight.

Edit for embarassing typo.

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 04:20 PM
*cough*
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
The 109 is particularly borked with respect to super concrete elevator, which takes away any bnz capability of the aircraft + removal of prop pitch adjustment...both due to forum boo-hoo whine-meisters.
^ painfull whiny joke . . . .

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 04:22 PM
I have no idea what "IL3" means. All I saw in my admittedly intermittent viewing of this hellhole was a 190 with a view better than a noobfire (correct) and something that flew with a nose-down attitude (also correct).

That's 500% more accurate than this game, for starters.

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
*cough*<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
The 109 is particularly borked with respect to super concrete elevator, which takes away any bnz capability of the aircraft + removal of prop pitch adjustment...both due to forum boo-hoo whine-meisters.
^ painfull whiny joke . . . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

More straws?

I don't think it says in there that I used the prop pitch does it? Nope. Just that I know that whiners had it 'corrected'

I'm afraid that you haven't commented on the elevator..do you think it's correct?

Well done, though - you typed three words and managed to get two of them right.

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 04:25 PM
nose down ? lol - how can a plane fly level while pointing the prop towards earth

the nose down believers share great things in commen with members of the flat earth society

i guess if you really suck & cant get no joy in-game , theres always the forums to cry on . . . .

F6_Ace
06-29-2006, 04:29 PM
Like I said, read some books pal. You'll find quite a few references to allied pilots talking of the 190 with it's "curious nose-down attitude."

And, after you've read them, try a dictionary.

I used to get plenty of joy in the game. Top scorer on many co-ops and in the top 10 on the server I flew on. I just sniffed the coffee and moved on.....

Now I find it amusing to wind up people such as yourself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 04:30 PM
hahah - omg you really believe it too

too funny!

MEGILE
06-29-2006, 05:24 PM
hehe this thread rocks. When I grow up I want to post one just like it.

Keep going gents, comedy gold much appreciated.

MEGILE
06-29-2006, 05:25 PM
btw. did Norris get banned, or just feel like a new direction?

WTE_Galway
06-29-2006, 05:33 PM
odd

when i went to flight school i was taught that nose attitude was to do with desired speed and the pilot had the option of changing it using a device known as the stick

Daiichidoku
06-29-2006, 07:08 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
nose down ? lol - how can a plane fly level while pointing the prop towards earth

Badsight...

ok, its not a prop...but ever see a B 52 take off nose down?
it can actually climb with a nose down attitude, jets pointing down

not a great pic, but you can make out this BUFF slightly nose down (abbotsford BC airshow 1988)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/88b52b.jpg

for a prop type, check out the short stirling; with its wing incidence, it flew nose down (although yes, the props were not pointed down

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/17-11-2003-9-39-short_stirling_f-fr.jpg


Grum---(i dont have a lawyer) heckcats had something like a 3 degree neg incidence on its thrust line, resulting in a funny-looking cruise attitude, "***-heavy"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/Daiichidoku/grum_hellcat_f6f.jpg

high speed flight, however, had the nose down, the lift generated by the wings more than compensating the downward thrust line

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 07:43 PM
lol - oh man please dont go there , its such a joke!

nothing in the way of any proof at all exists after all these years! , dont tell me you brought into the myth as well . . . .

berg417448
06-29-2006, 07:57 PM
If it truly is a myth then why did these folks believe it?


Sighting View

The sighting view, when sitting comfortably in the normal position, is about half a ring jof deflection) better than that from a Spitfire. The view downwards from the centre of the sight graticule of the edge of the reflector plate holder is about 5 degrees. This view is not obtained by elevating the guns (and consequently the sight) relative to the line of flight, but is entirely due to the attitude of the aircraft in flight, which is nose down.

From the CONFIDENTIAL REPORT ON TACTICAL TRIALS ‚‚ā¨" FW190

http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/store/fw190/tactical_trials.htm


Pierre Clostermann, Flames in the Sky (1957)
Red tracers danced past my windshield and suddenly I saw my first Hun! I identified it at once-it was a Focke-Wulf 190. I had not studied the photos and recognition charts so often for nothing.
After firing a burst of tracer at me he bore down on Martell. Yes, it certainly was one-the short wings, the
radial engine, the long transparent hood: the square-cut tail-plane all in one piece! But what had been missing from the photos was the lively colouring-the pale yellow body, the greyish green back, the big black crosses outlined in white. The photos gave no hint of the quivering of the wings, the outline elongated and fined down by the speed, the curious nose-down flying attitude.

WTE_Galway
06-29-2006, 07:57 PM
i never quite understood the nose down thing

the argument seems to go like this

- under full throttle at high speeds there are photos of 190's in seemingly level flight with the nose below horizontal (well yeah a cessna with enough lift will even do that there is no special rule that says thrust must act horizontal or above to fly level)

- this is then extrapolated out to be a "special feature" of the 109's flight characteristics

- logically ???? therefore the 190 engine must have been set at an upward angle to the airframe and the guns and gunsite historically where set to hit when the plane is flying with nose below horizontal .. the 190 was thus a secret weapon with a sort of "shrage musik" gun set up that lets you shoot straight with the plane in a nose down attitude ?

ok .. nice story .. but aerodynamic nonsense

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 07:58 PM
hilarious!

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9276/190levela8cn.jpg

the myth has life in it yet!

(i need to learn how to make gifs up , when you see WTE_Galways words in action , you will see the nose down myth is all bunk!)

Badsight-
06-29-2006, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
therefore the 190 engine must have been set at an upward angle to the airframe and the guns and gunsite historically where set to hit when the plane is flying with nose below horizontal .. guess what! . . . they wern't

F6_Ace
06-30-2006, 08:15 AM
You'd better go and tell the Targetware brigade that their 190 is faulty then...and that the attitude and view are wrong.

Although, if I were you, I'd get an adult to help you write the mail otherwise they won't have a clue as to what the f*ck your babbling on about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Norris who? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

HayateAce
06-30-2006, 10:26 AM
I think all blues planes should get a tone-down. Germany Luftenpanzies lost der war, and our arcade game must reflect this.

justflyin
06-30-2006, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
I think all blues planes should get a tone-down. Germany Luftenpanzies lost der war, and our arcade game must reflect this.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif Sic'em HayateAce!!! Grrrrr.....grrrrrr....lol

WWMaxGunz
06-30-2006, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It really helped that tracks of the events were distributed. Perhaps they teach us how to fly?
I had seen such a track, but wasn't really interesting. The cheat was mostly apparent after taking off from the airfield, in order to gain altitude advantage over the other player. Before that I never saw cimbing a Bf-109 like a rocket. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

On some online squad forum I saw a post-competition post from a member expressing pity over an offline competitor for being "incompetent" in not using the PP cheat (probably not aware of it either). Basically if you haven't used the cheat, you were deemed to lose the fight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was being sarcastic.
What did Oleg reply to many posts? "Learn to fly!"
The tracks show the exploit clearly, really only teaches to exploit in style of =FB=.

WWMaxGunz
06-30-2006, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
i never quite understood the nose down thing

the argument seems to go like this

- under full throttle at high speeds there are photos of 190's in seemingly level flight with the nose below horizontal (well yeah a cessna with enough lift will even do that there is no special rule that says thrust must act horizontal or above to fly level)

- this is then extrapolated out to be a "special feature" of the 109's flight characteristics

- logically ???? therefore the 190 engine must have been set at an upward angle to the airframe and the guns and gunsite historically where set to hit when the plane is flying with nose below horizontal .. the 190 was thus a secret weapon with a sort of "shrage musik" gun set up that lets you shoot straight with the plane in a nose down attitude ?

ok .. nice story .. but aerodynamic nonsense

Yes, that last line says it all. You don't believe the rhetoric either.

How to make the plane look 'nose down' is simple. The nose itself slopes from cockpit to
front end on the top as photos show. Why is this a mystery? Because some people think it
will allow a better in-game view. The gunsight view is fixed and as the plane noses down
due to trim with increasing speed, the view also rotates. That's why it doesn't change
unless you mouse the angle up a bit. The gunsight view is blocked on the bottom where it
is not IRL because the sim does not model refraction. No other reason. So why all attempts
to manufacture extra angle by playing with words? It is like the people who pushed for put
the POV higher to see over the bar which as Oleg showed it only misaligns the pilot eye with
the Revi which makes aiming impossible.

HEY WHINERS INCLUDING F6-Troll! The model was made from BLUEPRINTS. Refraction is left out.
There is no other reason for the missing angle. View through the Revi is a fixed angle.
A simple fix would be to lower the bar in the cockpit interior model but since that would
open a door to many other refraction issues as well as meaning changing every 190 model we
have it just ain't gonna happen much as we ALL would like to see a fix. GET OVER IT! That
especially includes the TROLL who wants someone else to get an adult to help him post.

The default view angle follows the pitch as the pitch moves down. IRL your head is not set
like that. It's about POV, not how the plane flies so quit making $#!+ up.

IBTL --- this thread has been hijacked by the worst kind of whiners in the ZOO.

joeap
06-30-2006, 02:20 PM
WWMaxGunz

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Trolls
PWNED

Badsight-
06-30-2006, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
You'd better go and tell the Targetware brigade that their 190 is faulty then...and that the attitude and view are wrong.

Although, if I were you, I'd get an adult to help you write the mail otherwise they won't have a clue as to what the f*ck your babbling on about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Norris who? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif sound like a bunch of clueless wonders

so far - zilch proof . . . . & it would take a simpleton to believe in it in the first place

the FW-190 motor wasnt tilted

the FW-190 guns were not tilted

the FW in the pic is showing a nose down attitude - so are the wings & guns , & prop

the pic itself is wrong & has been shopped , as a lame attaempt to prove the nose down myth here for this game many moons ago

its the kind of desperate lengths the foward view debate stirred up - i dont think the foward veiw of the FW-190 in FB is 100% correct , but it dont change you being a painfully whiney person either http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WWMaxGunz
06-30-2006, 10:28 PM
You know for a fact that he is flying level? And the inner wing has a higher AOA than the
tips, just look at the pic it's called washout.

Get a plane moving fast enough and you can get some nose tuck but that is a jet pilot term.

If a plane is made to mainly cruise the prop will face the air squarely at cruise, it is
most efficient. But if the plane is designed for top speed then the prop disk will not be
making thrust far off the angle of flight at nearly top speed.

I see a picture of a FW in flight there, that is all.

F6_Ace
07-01-2006, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
You'd better go and tell the Targetware brigade that their 190 is faulty then...and that the attitude and view are wrong.

Although, if I were you, I'd get an adult to help you write the mail otherwise they won't have a clue as to what the f*ck your babbling on about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Norris who? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif sound like a bunch of clueless wonders

so far - zilch proof . . . . & it would take a simpleton to believe in it in the first place

the FW-190 motor wasnt tilted

the FW-190 guns were not tilted

the FW in the pic is showing a nose down attitude - so are the wings & guns , & prop

the pic itself is wrong & has been shopped , as a lame attaempt to prove the nose down myth here for this game many moons ago

its the kind of desperate lengths the foward view debate stirred up - i dont think the foward veiw of the FW-190 in FB is 100% correct , but it dont change you being a painfully whiney person either http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, you agree that the forward view is incorrect and I can see that you are unable to write, so reading the relevant sections of books won't help. Perhaps Pierre Clostermann saw the photoshopped pic before he wrote about the FW190 in his memoirs? Amazing..I knew that Heinze Knocke had practically invented the word processor but to have an entire PC with photo manipulation software in 1945 must have been a real coup.

Also, thank you for whining continuously, like an Allegro gearbox with no oil in it, about my input http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Badsight-
07-01-2006, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
So, you agree that the forward view is incorrect and I can see that you are unable to write, so reading the relevant sections of books won't help. Perhaps Pierre Clostermann saw the photoshopped pic before he wrote about the FW190 in his memoirs? Amazing..I knew that Heinze Knocke had practically invented the word processor but to have an entire PC with photo manipulation software in 1945 must have been a real coup.

Also, thank you for whining continuously, like an Allegro gearbox with no oil in it, about my input http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ohhh yeah - pilot accounts - surprisingly , they dont agree!

but hey - lets just ignore aerdynamics & engineering & just model all planes on the least amount of pilot accounts that suit out viewpoint

why is it norris that no proof of the nose-down flight attitude exists out-side of a couple of pilot accounts ?

the plane couldnt fly like that - & only the simpletons believe it did . FB also doesnt take refraction into account for the P-47 - but hey your a german using dumbarse so why care about that either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

those german engineers must have been complete ******s to create a nose-down attitude & have the guns fire downwards as well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AKA_TAGERT
07-01-2006, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
ohhh yeah - pilot accounts - surprisingly , they dont agree!

but hey - lets just ignore aerdynamics & engineering & just model all planes on the least amount of pilot accounts that suit out viewpoint

why is it norris that no proof of the nose-down flight attitude exists out-side of a couple of pilot accounts ?

the plane couldnt fly like that - & only the simpletons believe it did . FB also doesnt take refraction into account for the P-47 - but hey your a german using dumbarse so why care about that either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

those german engineers must have been complete ******s to create a nose-down attitude & have the guns fire downwards as well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Agreed 100%

RealKill
07-03-2006, 07:04 PM
I want to know if/who deleted my post... and why.

RealKill
07-03-2006, 07:20 PM
I posted a 'corrected' pic, (where my post went I don't know), showing a pathetic attempt (lie) at swaying people to accept certain views concerning the 190 view.

As Badsight- said, "a lame attaempt to prove the nose down myth".

Here it is again.

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/8329/190bull5il.jpg

berg417448
07-03-2006, 07:21 PM
Originally posted by RealKill:
I want to know if/who deleted my post... and why.

There was a problem with the forums. A lot of posts in different threads dissappeared.

RealKill
07-03-2006, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by berg417448:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RealKill:
I want to know if/who deleted my post... and why.

There was a problem with the forums. A lot of posts in different threads dissappeared. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ooo K. Thank you for the reply.

Oh, yeah. In that pic, the pilot would have to have x-ray vision to use the line of sight of that middle arrow.

Charos
07-03-2006, 08:58 PM
Here is an older thread for you.

FW190 Attitude thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/2821092882/p/1)

Carry on.

WWMaxGunz
07-04-2006, 07:41 AM
You make an assumption about the flight path of that plane in the first place.
Assumption is that the flight path is totally level. In drawing lines you also make an
assumption abou the angle of the camera to the sbuject. That's not an orthographic view.

Manu-6S
07-04-2006, 08:24 AM
I think that the real problem is the pilot's position...

About the nose-down attitude, I don't know... I'm going to ask to a friend of mine (aeronautical engineer).

In this image I set the prop in a perpenticular position at the horizont

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5149/pilot1xk.gif

Manu-6S
07-04-2006, 08:37 AM
OT: Test page 7

EDIT: Now it works... forum is exploding

MEGILE
07-04-2006, 08:45 AM
The more I read of it, the more I am convinced people are arguing due to disinformation.

The FW-190 doesn't have a literal nose down attitude during level flight... its just the cowling slopes down towards the prop.

joeap
07-04-2006, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I think that the real problem is the pilot's position...

About the nose-down attitude, I don't know... I'm going to ask to a friend of mine (aeronautical engineer).

In this image I set the prop in a perpenticular position at the horizont



Ok to save the hamster did not quote your very interesting image, our problem could just be that folks. Looks possible to me.

Charos
07-04-2006, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
The more I read of it, the more I am convinced people are arguing due to disinformation.

The FW-190 doesn't have a literal nose down attitude during level flight... its just the cowling slopes down towards the prop.

That about sums it up.

I love that montage Manu-68s.

The Dwarven FW190 pilot certainly comes out in that - Nice.

Charos
07-04-2006, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
You make an assumption about the flight path of that plane in the first place.
Assumption is that the flight path is totally level. In drawing lines you also make an
assumption abou the angle of the camera to the sbuject. That's not an orthographic view.

No Assumption required - The green line in the pic I originally posted in the old thread that passes through the Prop shaft is also the centre line of the AC.

You will find this line referenced on various drawings and blueprints.

I aligned that exactly parallel with the bottom frame of the Pic (IE: on the angle the shot was taken).

As was discussed in the other thread the line is just slightly low at the tail (Possible by 6 inches) which only alters the top hood angle by about 1 Degree.

But it doesnt really matter what angle the pic was taken as the pilot will always be the same relative angle to the AC's centre line.

Here are the pics again for reference.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~trentelliott/IL2/FW190_Side1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/1901.jpg

Jaws2002
07-04-2006, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Manu-6S:
I think that the real problem is the pilot's position...



Bingo.
That's what's why the fw in targetware has much better visibility. The POV is in the right place.

And of course the REFRACTION.

MG15120
07-04-2006, 02:44 PM
The FW190 series was designed from the beginning to be a serious killer that made the pilots job easier by giving him a user friendly tool with which to do his job.

The design was noted by friend and foe alike to have good over the nose visibility and one British pilot noted that it would be a good plane to use for strafing passes due to the view over the nose.

The design of any aircraft involves the optimization of many different angles of the various components installed to achieve the best working combination for that machine.
There is the engine thrust line both from the side and the top.
The wing incidence which (except for the F8 Crusader), is a fixed angle having to do with how the wing is bolted to the fuselage.
Vertical stabilizer offset, to counter torque and P factor and other such things.
The horizontal stabilizer incidence angle, which in the case of the 190 series was ADJUSTABLE in flight for use as pitch trim. This type of pitch trim gives the cleanest running configuration as compared to adjustable tabs on the elevator.

The over the nose sight picture and how the plane "hangs" in the sky will change with airspeed. Most all planes will have a nose up attitude at slower speeds as compared to the more level attitude seen in level flight, and yes as the speed comes up a lot of designs will fly with a tail high/nose down angle as the nose has to be trimmed down to prevent climbing as the speed comes up.
Anyone that has any amount of real live flying time will attest to this fact.
So the nay sayers that want to argue against the 190 series having an accurate over the nose view, in any flight attitude should get off their agenda and take an objective look.

Badsight-
07-04-2006, 11:42 PM
Originally posted by Charos:
No Assumption required - The green line in the pic I originally posted in the old thread that passes through the Prop shaft is also the centre line of the AC.

You will find this line referenced on various drawings and blueprints.

I aligned that exactly parallel with the bottom frame of the Pic (IE: on the angle the shot was taken).

As was discussed in the other thread the line is just slightly low at the tail (Possible by 6 inches) which only alters the top hood angle by about 1 Degree.

But it doesnt really matter what angle the pic was taken as the pilot will always be the same relative angle to the AC's centre line.

Here are the pics again for reference.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~trentelliott/IL2/FW190_Side1.jpg (http://members.optusnet.com.au/%7Etrentelliott/IL2/FW190_Side1.jpg)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/1901.jpg & as you can see , the nose doesnt point downwards

the verticle engine cowling line being 90 degrees to the corrected bottom on the picture is what matters - the prop faced squarely towards its flight path

the hood line & the underneath fueselarge line give a slant to the supposed plane attitude , it looks pointed downwards , but the nose isnt! , it points in the exact foward position

the FW-190 view in FB may not be 100% correct - but the nose down myth is just that - myth

Charos
07-05-2006, 05:18 AM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
& as you can see , the nose doesnt point downwards

the verticle engine cowling line being 90 degrees to the corrected bottom on the picture is what matters - the prop faced squarely towards its flight path

the hood line & the underneath fueselarge line give a slant to the supposed plane attitude , it looks pointed downwards , but the nose isnt! , it points in the exact foward position

the FW-190 view in FB may not be 100% correct - but the nose down myth is just that - myth

And as you can see from the Former thread I posted this issue has also been covered.

I will post my previous comments again for clarity from page 2.

"Posted Sun March 06 2005 07:43
Just one more time - I never said the FW190 flies nose down externally - IE: plane attitude relative to "relative wind"

I was saying the Upper part of the Hood (nose) rotates below the Horizontal plane of the Pilot's view as it executes its takeoff rotation.

This is why FW190's have shocking forward view on the ground yet excellent view once in the air.

I also agreed with Megile on this very point on this page of this thread.

WWMaxGunz
07-05-2006, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by Charos:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
You make an assumption about the flight path of that plane in the first place.
Assumption is that the flight path is totally level. In drawing lines you also make an
assumption abou the angle of the camera to the sbuject. That's not an orthographic view.

No Assumption required - The green line in the pic I originally posted in the old thread that passes through the Prop shaft is also the centre line of the AC.

You will find this line referenced on various drawings and blueprints.

I aligned that exactly parallel with the bottom frame of the Pic (IE: on the angle the shot was taken).

As was discussed in the other thread the line is just slightly low at the tail (Possible by 6 inches) which only alters the top hood angle by about 1 Degree.

But it doesnt really matter what angle the pic was taken as the pilot will always be the same relative angle to the AC's centre line.

Here are the pics again for reference.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~trentelliott/IL2/FW190_Side1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/1901.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fine and good as far as the nose not being pitched up or down. Try holding that exact attitude
and reducing power; you will not stay flying level, you will be at less than one G and it will
make it easier to hold that pitch.

Camera angle matters when trying to figure out wing and prop chords, as does photo-shopping
which by the pics on page 6 here disagrees with your posted diagrams that show the prop to
be perpendicular to the centerline.

The sloped nose makes perhaps an illusion for people used to straighter nosed planes.

Charos
07-05-2006, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:

Fine and good as far as the nose not being pitched up or down. Try holding that exact attitude
and reducing power; you will not stay flying level, you will be at less than one G and it will
make it easier to hold that pitch.

Camera angle matters when trying to figure out wing and prop chords, as does photo-shopping
which by the pics on page 6 here disagrees with your posted diagrams that show the prop to
be perpendicular to the centerline.

The sloped nose makes perhaps an illusion for people used to straighter nosed planes.


If you look again at the other pics on page 6 it will be clear that the Centre line has NOT been referenced at all.

There are lines drawn at arbitrary angles but they have no real value at all - I think we agree on that.

The centre line of the AC is fixed as is the angle of the engine and the cowl with respect to it as is also the pilot.

These angles will remain the same even if the plane is perpendicular to the ground, it makes no difference.

When it comes to determining the angle of the nose with respect to the ground then your correct, as you say that angle will change in flight.


But as far as that is concerned I will Quote Mr Eric Brown.


Sighting View
"The sighting view, when sitting comfortably in the normal position, is about half a ring better than that from the spitfire. The view downwards from the centre of the sight graticule to the edge of the reflector plate holder, is about 5 degrees. This view is not obtained by elevateing the gun (and consequently the sight) relative to the line of flight, but is entirely due to the attitude of the aircraft in flight, which is nose down." (He means nose down relative to the pilots view NOT from an external view.

GR142-Pipper
07-05-2006, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by justflyin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
Or, perhaps the Mk VIII CW is overmodelled, too. That's hardly a scientific test now, is it?

Your logic is flawed. For example, I haven't seen any topics on bin Laden being a nasty guy for some time on the net....Perhaps he's turned alright now?

No need for scientific tests, as your 1st post would indicate. I'm using my experience of flying La-7s against MK VIII CWs and vice-versa since the Mk. VIIIs were introduced into this series, plus my 6 years of experience with this series since the IL-2 beta.

HaVoK, the prop pitch exploit in a 109 has nothing to do with the FW's use of it. It didn't work the same way in a FW in the game.

When smeone provides a link to the tracks made from that competition in China, what you see on them is a joke, but it was OK'd for use in the tournament at the time. The same AUTO/MANUAL pitch BS was used to exploit a Fighter Sweeps round as well. Be sure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You're right, Justflyin. The 109G-2 is a joke. It turns nearly as well as a Yak-3 or Spit IX, can change it's energy state faster than just about anything in the game, and can go into the "helicopter" mode as well. Yes, the 109G-2 is certainly one of Maddox's pet planes. This matter has gone on for a couple of years now. Maddox has no intention of fixing it. Just as he has no intention of correcting the glaring deficiencies in the U.S. mid/late war fighters. Enjoy the game with his biases or play something else.

You guys really think BoB is going to be something different, eh? Guess again.

GR142-Pipper

JG5_UnKle
07-06-2006, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
You guys really think BoB is going to be something different, eh? Guess again.

GR142-Pipper

Hopefully you won't fly it so we won't have to listen to endless droning.....

Now THAT would be different http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

joeap
07-06-2006, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by JG5_UnKle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
You guys really think BoB is going to be something different, eh? Guess again.

GR142-Pipper

Hopefully you won't fly it so we won't have to listen to endless droning.....

Now THAT would be different http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

MEGILE
07-06-2006, 12:00 PM
Joeap, you will soon have the uber post count.

AFJ_rsm
07-06-2006, 12:12 PM
so where do i have to sign to get teh ub3r l337z0r 109 pr0p pitch h4x back?

WWMaxGunz
07-06-2006, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by MG15120:
The over the nose sight picture and how the plane "hangs" in the sky will change with airspeed. Most all planes will have a nose up attitude at slower speeds as compared to the more level attitude seen in level flight, and yes as the speed comes up a lot of designs will fly with a tail high/nose down angle as the nose has to be trimmed down to prevent climbing as the speed comes up.
Anyone that has any amount of real live flying time will attest to this fact.
So the nay sayers that want to argue against the 190 series having an accurate over the nose view, in any flight attitude should get off their agenda and take an objective look.

You went one step beyond the reality there unless somehow the Revi changed where it projected in response to pitch and the freaking guns moved to match? But then I am sure that pilots
here who have flown with working Revi gunsights can attest how the site view angle changes.
Perhaps you confuse over the instruments view with gunsight view?

What Charos pointed out, how much above the prop shaft line most of the plane is. But it
is the prop shaft pitch that determines nose up or down and not where the pilot sits or
the tail is.

MEGILE
07-06-2006, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by F6_Ace:
While he's looking at the G2, perhaps he can look at the delta wood *exploit* affecting his prize stock of VVS aircraft, too?

No, it wasn't justified. Like the mods for 'trim on a slider', it just goes to show that this is treated as a glorified arcade game (which it is).

LMAO, can't believe I missed this gem.,

F6boob, you are the king of nonse-sense.

Xiolablu3
07-06-2006, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG5_UnKle:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
You guys really think BoB is going to be something different, eh? Guess again.

GR142-Pipper

Hopefully you won't fly it so we won't have to listen to endless droning.....

Now THAT would be different http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Come on Pipper, give it a rest. Do you never stop to think that 'your' bugs' are not always the most important bugs in the game?

Its a damn computer game trying to imitate WW2 air combat and its the best one we have ever had. Its not possible to be perfect, if you ask many of the blue flyers, they are not happy with their planes either and some are as sure as you that the blue planes are porked.

Can you not see the big picture yet? Take a step back and try and see the world from other peoples perspective , rather than yours all the time. It gets tiresome to see the same old closed minded posts. (Red planes are porked, Blue planes are porked, Oleg is a Red lover, Oleg is a Blue lover, yaaaawwwnnn.)

LStarosta
07-06-2006, 01:28 PM
Real mens fly trans-oceanic flights in FS2004.

I'm flying KJFK -D> EGLL. Only 260nm to go!

justflyin
07-06-2006, 03:13 PM
Hmmm, this thread is still active?!?! Yikes! I'm not even going to read it, just marvel at it's existence on life support. ;^)

MEGILE
07-06-2006, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
Real mens fly trans-oceanic flights in FS2004.

I'm flying KJFK -D> EGLL. Only 260nm to go!

I hope you get stuck in the holding pattern at Heathrow.

I used to do Dallas to Atlanta on eskyworld... nice flight.

Manchester to France was aso cool.

RCAF_Irish_403
07-06-2006, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by justflyin:
Hmmm, this thread is still active?!?! Yikes! I'm not even going to read it, just marvel at it's existence on life support. ;^)

it is kinda useless...the title is so loaded it pretty much sums it up...repeat after me: IT WAS AN EXPLOIT...GAMING THE GAME SUX

La7_brook
07-06-2006, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by justflyin:
Hmmm, this thread is still active?!?! Yikes! I'm not even going to read it, just marvel at it's existence on life support. ;^)

it is kinda useless...the title is so loaded it pretty much sums it up...repeat after me: IT WAS AN EXPLOIT...GAMING THE GAME SUX </div></BLOCKQUOTE> it may have been expoilt in game but it WAS used a lot in RL and u can not even use it now so what is right ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif if u want a sim it should be there if u want a game leave it as is

MEGILE
07-07-2006, 03:45 AM
Originally posted by La7_brook:

it may have been expoilt in game but it WAS used a lot in RL and u can not even use it now so what is right ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif if u want a sim it should be there if u want a game leave it as is

Can't use prop pitch now? Try hitting the prop pitch button. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

La7_brook
07-07-2006, 09:40 AM
Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by La7_brook:

it may have been expoilt in game but it WAS used a lot in RL and u can not even use it now so what is right ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif if u want a sim it should be there if u want a game leave it as is

Can't use prop pitch now? Try hitting the prop pitch button. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> and take off in 44 109 hmmm / expoilt was when guys were jumping from auto /manual back and forwards at fast speeds,not as i new it, flew on manual full time / im not saying its right then but i dont think now its right now / as its better with out a delt on auto / say its in between the two / as things that ive read vets juymping fast to manual after been jump landing etc would be point less in this game /it was in game when oleg first made il2 for that fact that it was used / so calling the hole thing an expoilt is bais or not having any idear about 109, m pp , also it was no easy tick learning full pp in the 109 / as cooking motor in sec don wrong/ the expoilters got round learning or risking there motor /manual pp made flying the 109 alot off work / now i push I key and power up easy/ turn fighting /dogfighting etc and watching your motor full time job was hard work as to it now / as u can see i enjoyed flying it so no way would i set there tap keys or look for cheats to use / there two sides two this story / expoilt kill it for me too by small group like all ways/ no wrrys its gone now but calling it all a cheat is not right too thats all im saying / guess new guys too game will all thinking expoilt cheat etc from post like that

HayateAce
07-07-2006, 11:27 AM
http://web.syr.edu/~sslau/CIMG0007.JPG

GR142-Pipper
07-07-2006, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG5_UnKle:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
You guys really think BoB is going to be something different, eh? Guess again.

GR142-Pipper

Hopefully you won't fly it so we won't have to listen to endless droning.....

Now THAT would be different http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Come on Pipper, give it a rest. Do you never stop to think that 'your' bugs' are not always the most important bugs in the game? I have never stated that my issues with the 109 were the most important bugs in the game. All I'm pointing out is the fact that the 109G-2 is a complete joke and has been so for a couple of years now. If you feel otherwise, be my guest.

GR142-Pipper

Brain32
07-07-2006, 07:06 PM
Well if 109G2 is a joke, what is a Spitfire then? A bad joke? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Badsight-
07-07-2006, 07:20 PM
i just wish shooting pipper was a joke , having to deal with the whining & excuses makes it anything but . . . .

the overmoddeled part is his complain-ability , fact

GR142-Pipper
07-07-2006, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
i just wish shooting pipper was a joke... Something you've never done my little potted hibiscus. (snicker)

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:1ijaL-9UdTmVaM:images.amazon.com/images/P/B00023SXUE.01-A2IIOEXUFHJ8BL._PE20_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

GR142-Pipper
07-07-2006, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Well if 109G2 is a joke, what is a Spitfire then? A bad joke? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif If the Spitfire (or any other aircraft's) flight model is off then it should be fixed too. I'm not in favor of any overmodeled or undermodeled aircraft. The problem we have now is that too many of the planes are just way off. After all the 4.x patches, the trend toward better flight models just doesn't seem to be improving...quite the contrary.

GR142-Pipper

Badsight-
07-08-2006, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
Something you've never done my little potted hibiscus. (snicker) denial is not good to live with

Dont
Even
Noe
I
Am
Lying

MEGILE
07-08-2006, 12:08 PM
lol Badsight

I also liked Crimea River

karost
07-08-2006, 02:54 PM
from 109's prop pitch ... to FW190 nose down...??

last three year..
a: it's a sim
b: yes, it's sim
c: no it's a game

last two year...
a: it's a sim!
b: ammm it' a game
c: it's a game ... i told you.

this year...
a: this game is good...
b: yes it's a good game..
c: ... Oh yes ?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

GR142-Pipper
07-08-2006, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
Something you've never done my little potted hibiscus. (snicker) denial is not good to live with

Dont
Even
Noe
I
Am
Lying </div></BLOCKQUOTE>"Noe"...well, there you have it folks. Yes, you're a harmless little hibiscus alright.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:1ijaL-9UdTmVaM:images.amazon.com/images/P/B00023SXUE.01-A2IIOEXUFHJ8BL._PE20_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

La7_brook
07-08-2006, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
Something you've never done my little potted hibiscus. (snicker) denial is not good to live with

Dont
Even
Noe
I
Am
Lying </div></BLOCKQUOTE>"Noe"...well, there you have it folks. Yes, you're a harmless little hibiscus alright.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:1ijaL-9UdTmVaM:images.amazon.com/images/P/B00023SXUE.01-A2IIOEXUFHJ8BL._PE20_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE> GR142-Pipper what you doing here ! 109 post u dont fly it! all been able to fly mpp before with your no all of 109,s http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

Badsight-
07-08-2006, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
"Noe"...well, there you have it folks. Yes, you're a harmless little hibiscus alright.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:1ijaL-9UdTmVaM:images.amazon.com/images/P/B00023SXUE.01-A2IIOEXUFHJ8BL._PE20_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg does it bite that bad ?

looking at the endless excuses you make every time i guess it does . . . .

"i was landing" (attempting to in the feilds while being shot up isnt a landing , its desperation)

"i was getting a drink" (after getting your six owned & then getting shot is the time all top players decide to get a drink right?)

& so forth

GR142-Pipper
07-09-2006, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
"Noe"...well, there you have it folks. Yes, you're a harmless little hibiscus alright.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:1ijaL-9UdTmVaM:images.amazon.com/images/P/B00023SXUE.01-A2IIOEXUFHJ8BL._PE20_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg does it bite that bad ?

looking at the endless excuses you make every time i guess it does . . . .

"i was landing" (attempting to in the feilds while being shot up isnt a landing , its desperation)

"i was getting a drink" (after getting your six owned & then getting shot is the time all top players decide to get a drink right?)

& so forth </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You know, it's just not enough that you can't resist leading with your intellectual glass jaw. And it's not enough that you can't even fly under your own handle (the way you get passed around who can blame you). And it's not enough that you're everyone's little hibiscus. So you make up these little fantasies and want them to be true sooo bad you actually believe them. Poor BadSnatch. No matter. Have your friend sprinkle some gunnery-a-grow on your head, give you a big drink of water and place you in a nice sunny spot. You'll feel all better in the morning. (snicker)

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:TE2ipI9hL_BNeM:www.exotic-hibiscus.com/acatalog/fertilizer1.jpg

DIRTY-MAC
07-09-2006, 04:45 AM
Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
I'm not in favor of any overmodeled or undermodeled aircraft.
GR142-Pipper

you got to be kidding!
we all know if you would done the fligt model,
the US planes would be Fr!kkin laser beams who can jump in time and space, and the axis planes would be made of cotton and glued to the ground http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

STOP THE WHINING!

Fish6891
07-09-2006, 04:59 AM
lol

MEGILE
07-09-2006, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Fish6891:
lol

I'm with this dude.

Badsight-
07-09-2006, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:
you got to be kidding!

STOP THE WHINING! yes i know DIRTY-MAC , you want to see how big a joke Pipper is , then just ask him how blackout affects the Messerschmitts - its a Riot!

& i have yet to meet a single noob who gets as frustrated as Pipper when he wasnt able to bag me , he even chased me up to 5K till he seen he was all alone - runs like a scared little girl as good as anyone else too i have to add

& thats the Pipper we all know & shoot down at will . . . . .

big mouth , zero facts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

GR142-Pipper
07-10-2006, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
& i have yet to meet a single noob who gets as frustrated as Pipper when he wasnt able to bag me , he even chased me up to 5K till he seen he was all alone - runs like a scared little girl as good as anyone else too i have to add

& thats the Pipper we all know & shoot down at will . . . . .

big mouth , zero facts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I bet you were in your big bad wolf outfit when you posted that. (giggle...God, are you ever so easy.)

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:5RuBMudOJrym2M:www.gasolinealleyantiq ues.com/images/Puppets%2520Page/hp-wolf.jpg

WWMaxGunz
07-10-2006, 12:54 AM
Originally posted by karost:
from 109's prop pitch ... to FW190 nose down...??

last three year..
a: it's a sim
b: yes, it's sim
c: no it's a game

last two year...
a: it's a sim!
b: ammm it' a game
c: it's a game ... i told you.

this year...
a: this game is good...
b: yes it's a good game..
c: ... Oh yes ?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!

Nice chronicle of what happens as people get driven off the board by whiners.
Funny they don't view the product the same at SimHQ.

Whiner pressure terms for sims:
Game
Arcade
Whaaaaaaaaaaaa!

WWMaxGunz
07-10-2006, 01:01 AM
Hey Pipper! You manage to get a Yak-3 to fly coordinated? I have. No sidestick needed,
just a bit of rudder.

However I wasn't able to last fall and half the winter as the stick I had would not calibrate.
Everything wanted to slow roll left then, I couldn't get that axis to center. And I did not
see it till I reloaded RB3D and used the Logitech program instead of IL2 hardware screen.

Some day I might even get rudder pedals. Holding the twist through maneuvers, I just can't
keep it exactly so. Yet for some reason I can hold the Yaks straight.

Badsight-
07-10-2006, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
[I bet you were in your big bad wolf outfit when you posted that. (giggle...God, are you ever so easy.)

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:5RuBMudOJrym2M:www.gasolinealleyantiq ues.com/images/Puppets%2520Page/hp-wolf.jpg i bet in your mind , thats actually funny!

$10 you had help with spelling snicker . . . .

GR142-Pipper
07-10-2006, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
i bet in your mind , thats actually funny! Yeah it is, especially since you're all too eager to wade in and make a complete idiot of yourself...again and again and again. You need to relax and have a little bite to eat. This looks like your kind of place....(chuckle)

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:0GW11s1FO-CQFM:www.paynsave.net/images/bait_house.gif

GR142-Pipper
07-10-2006, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Hey Pipper! You manage to get a Yak-3 to fly coordinated? I have. No sidestick needed,
just a bit of rudder.

However I wasn't able to last fall and half the winter as the stick I had would not calibrate.
Everything wanted to slow roll left then, I couldn't get that axis to center. And I did not
see it till I reloaded RB3D and used the Logitech program instead of IL2 hardware screen.

Some day I might even get rudder pedals. Holding the twist through maneuvers, I just can't
keep it exactly so. Yet for some reason I can hold the Yaks straight. That's good advice since, to be honest, I've had varying degrees of success keeping things consistently coordinated in all but a fairly narrow flight band. I'll give your suggestion a try. Appreciated.

GR142-Pipper

Codex1971
07-10-2006, 05:19 PM
http://www.firstdirect.com/demos/ibplus/images/boy_cinema.jpg